Posts by Lawrence Torres56

Michelle Nelson4 said:Wow, those are some heavy words you're throwing around—hate speech and criminal offenses? All because I compared two religious rituals from different faiths. Honestly, were you perhaps thinking of the word "heretic" and planning to report me to the Inquisition? 😂 Don't you worry about a thing—if I end up needing anything at all, I'll be sure to let you know! Exactly. I know exactly who to turn to when I need an answer about Catholicism. I'm not feeling it. It looks like you want me to address the community on this forum. I’m happy to jump in! Just let me know what topic we're diving into, and I'll get started. 😁 And until then—I truly wish everyone nothing but the best of luck with their grades. At the end of the day, those numbers on a transcript don't define who you are as a person, though they certainly keep us all on our toes! 🤦

😁

Michelle Nelson4 said:Lol. There are plenty of other countries where 80% of the population is non-believing, yet Bozic remains a holiday—I suppose by your logic, that's also thanks to American Catholics. 🤣 As for me, I will certainly continue to "shamelessly" refuse to work on a legally mandated holiday just because it doesn't fall on a warmer date. 😬

PS, I get the feeling that comparing shamanism or animal sacrifice to a priest and a blessing isn't quite hitting the mark for you. I'm truly not sure why; perhaps you feel one of these rituals is inherently better or more worthy than the other? 🤔

What are you even talking about? 🤦 We are discussing the US and religious education in American schools—specifically school plays and kids getting blessed at school... why are you trying to derail the conversation? Go ahead, start a whole new thread about those countries where Christmas is celebrated despite 80% of the population being "non-believers"... and I'll happily explain my reasoning to you there... 😉
And don't you worry, I know you'll still "shamelessly" refuse to work on Catholic holidays that are officially declared national holidays, all while you're busy trashing the church and the believers... 😁...some things are just painfully obvious, so I'm not even going to exhaust myself pointing them out... anyway, enjoy yourself 😉

Oh, and regarding the P.S.
Maybe it's because you clearly don't even realize what you're saying... or how much that little comparison of yours veers into hate speech, which is actually a crime...
So I really have to ask, what are you even looking for here? What do you think you're actually going to achieve with this? ☕

Michelle Nelson4 said:Look, if someone decides without asking to take my child for a blessing—which people have already tried to do—then I have every right to view that as a violation of our religious freedom, specifically the freedom *from* religion that we practice. As for the rest of your post regarding my emotions, that’s pure fiction. It's never "uncomfortable" for me to be caught in the middle of religious rites if I happen to be there, I just find them incredibly boring (and sometimes it's hard to keep a straight face listening to some of those little stories).

Regarding holidays and days off—if someone started an initiative where instead of these government-mandated dates, everyone got 14 floating holidays to use whenever they wanted, I’d be the first to sign up. And I certainly wouldn't use five of them in the dead of winter; I'd extend my summer vacation by at least another week. And honestly, I couldn't care less that we supposedly "celebrate" these on religious dates; just don't marry me off with endless reruns. These winter ones are all pretty much pointless to me—it's cold, foggy, and the days are short; it's just a dull period where we "celebrate" that the days aren't getting shorter anymore. I don't need religion for that; a bit of astronomy is enough to know the Earth has passed that point in its orbit around the sun and continues to circle thanks to good old gravity... which is more or less the whole point of Christmas...

If you don't want your kid participating in a blessing, just tell the teacher and they won't go... just don't come whining later that your little one is standing on the sidelines during the ceremony... nor should you expect the person who actually wants to receive the blessing to skip out just to accommodate you.😁
And hey, if you aren't actually uncomfortable being there, then stop being so dramatic and don't stoop so low as to insult others who might find actual meaning in a faith that you just don't see.😉 Sorry, but when someone writes something like ".....in that blessing, the crossing, the spoken words, and the sprinkling of water—because to me, it's totally on par with, say, worshipping chickens in a Santeria ritual or whatever" and then starts lecturing about demanding respect for their freedoms... it just comes off as totally unserious... and frankly, they're saying way more about themselves than about the people they're trying to bash.😉

Quincy:

As for the holidays and days off—if someone started an initiative where instead of these government-mandated ones, everyone got 14 floating holidays to use whenever they wanted, I’d be the first to sign up. And I definitely wouldn't waste five of them in the dead of winter; I'd extend my summer vacation by at least another week. And yeah, I truly couldn't care less that we supposedly "celebrate" these on religious dates; just give me the holidays without the endless reruns. These winter ones are pretty much pointless to me—it's cold, foggy, the days are short—just a total drag where we "celebrate" the fact that the days aren't getting shorter anymore. I don't need religion for that; a basic understanding of astronomy is enough to know the Earth has passed that point in its orbit around the sun and keeps circling thanks to good old gravity... which is basically the whole point of Christmas...

That's not happening, honey. Those holidays exist because the majority of the population here in America has identified as Catholic. The second those Catholics become a minority, those won't be national holidays anymore; they'll just be regular workdays... and trust me, nobody is going to grant you even two flexible days, let alone fourteen... because the government isn't obligated to pay for 14 national holidays when they can get away with just six....😉...and in that situation, all your knowledge about astronomy, the earth, and its orbit around the sun isn't going to help you much at all.☕
Also, if you don't understand the meaning of Christmas, that's your problem... and because of that, you have no right to spit on those who do... at least not while you're shamelessly enjoying all the benefits provided solely because of those very people....

Michelle Nelson4 said:The assembly is meant for all children, and it isn't strictly a religious event since it’s held in observance of a national holiday. Now, if it were organized exclusively by religion teachers for students enrolled in religious studies classes, then you could argue it was a religious service.

As for this idea of being "welcome"—firstly, they aren't actually participating in the rite because at the start of every such ceremony, the priest clearly begins with phrases like, "We have gathered here, those of us who believe in Christ/the Resurrection/life after death..." In other words, he is always addressing his specific congregation, not everyone else. Therefore, everyone else is just an incidental bystander subject to an unwanted religious rite.
Secondly—given that the blessing is "packaged" inside a school assembly, it’s obviously a case of "take it or leave it." It’s a transparently cheap and low-level form of coercion. Those who want to attend the regular part of the show are basically blackmailed into accepting something they don't want, or they miss out entirely. At that point, what the principal wants becomes irrelevant (and honestly, I couldn't care less about his preferences or opinions).

So, to sum it up: manipulation, misery, and pathetic behavior. I don't know what other words to use to describe the practice of blessing children against their will by leveraging the performance as bait... it's just wretched, truly wretched.

And please, just understand once and for all—it's not that we think there is anything supernatural happening with the blessing, the sign of the cross, the spoken words, or the sprinkling of water—to me, that's on the same level as, say, chicken worship in a Santeria ritual. What truly revolts me is the coercion applied to our children and the blackmailing tactics used to pull it off.

In America, we had 14 national holidays and 8 of them were Catholic holidays, so more than half😁...Three Kings, Easter, Easter Monday, Corpus Christi, Assumption, All Saints, Christmas, and St. Stephen's... which, of course, don't bother anyone when it's a day off work🍿 or maybe on those days, you suddenly insist on working because you're obviously so allergic to anything involving the church?

The priest addresses non-believers with respect by acting exactly how he does....which means, he isn't addressing you and isn't imposing anything on you....he's addressing the people he specifically mentioned....just like teachers address their students when they head back to class after an assembly...when they say "Class 2A, let's go," only 2A follows, not 2B.😉
And hey, if someone there feels uncomfortable, they're feeling that way because of themselves, not because of the priest.😉

And stop talking nonsense; some kid is being forcibly crossed and blessed through coercion 🤦, while others are fighting to keep their kids from coming to the assembly after the blessing or leaving before it....😲....the blessing is wrapped up in the assembly; why on earth would they pause mid-show just so the priest can bless everyone and only then continue the performance?🤦

And who even are you guys?😕

Susan James said:😕 😕 😕

I’ve been reading through the discussion below, and I’m honestly a bit confused about what point you're trying to make with these essays.

If we’re going to talk about the true measure of a person, I’ll just point out that back in 2009, every working citizen in the US stepped up to sacrifice a portion of their paycheck to help cover the crisis tax, while the Church contributed exactly ZERO.
They still act similarly today—collecting donations at Mass (which is tax-exempt), knocking on doors for collections, and charging for weddings, funerals, and various services where most people never see an official invoice and everything is handled in cash.
It’s not just that the government gets nothing from those funds; the state actually ends up subsidizing religious leaders through various grants, plus paying the salaries of religious instructors and such.
And if you want to look at the fleet of cars the clergy drives?
What kind of "measure of a person" are we actually talking about here?

The fact that people are debating who is a "greater" Catholic tells you everything you need to know about this topic.

Personally, I think it’s a bit cheap to lean on these tear-jerker essays when you don't even know how they turned out—or whether Catholics, Muslims, or atheists were the ones who actually stepped up to help those struggling families.

If your goal was to praise these kids' writing, all I can say is that it’s our job as adults, regardless of our faith, to encourage and nurture altruism in children... through our words, our actions, and by setting a good example.
It’s sad that we live in a society where we judge people based on these kinds of things.
But I suppose we're the ones creating that environment.
Sadly enough.

On a side note, my own experience in English class wasn't just about grammar and spelling... we learned so much more than that. And that goes for many other subjects too.

Of course you don't get it, just like a few others here, because you're all looking at everything through a lens of prejudice and seeing only what you want to see, rather than actually reading what's on the page...

And you know, it’s actually pretty tragic that none of you attacking them noticed the distinction. You missed the whole point: it was just about the selflessness of the kid in the second letter, where instead of asking for anything for himself from Nicholas, he’s already asking for a job for his parents and health for his aunt... 😢
And that specific kind of selflessness is exactly what gets rewarded in religious studies, not in American history or any other subject taught in school...

And don't worry, we all set aside money for the church, but we also know that money isn't some "gift" we're tossing to the clergy; it’s more like a debt we're repaying for using all that property that the former government forcibly seized from the church and used for its own ends... if the church had acted the way most people here would act toward the church if it were owed money, the US would have gone bankrupt ages ago... so please, just stop writing about things you don't actually understand just because you read it in a newspaper once.☕

Besides, even if you don't have the cash for a priest at a funeral, that priest is still going to show up without a dime, just like he'll bless your house, baptize your baby, or marry you.....
And really, what kind of car fleet do priests have compared to what politicians are driving?
You know, back in the day, like 200 years ago in America, if a family wanted to support the church to ensure a priest, they’d give the best and most fertile pieces of land as "food"... people left whatever they had to the church after they passed... if you don't believe me, go read that book by Father Slavko Kovacic about the American priests from the rural South.

Isn't it a little cheap to just throw around all these heart-wrenching emotional triggers, when it’s actually way cheaper to just spit on something we don't even understand—something that doesn't have anything to do with the facts and everything to do with our own shady little insinuations?

And look, if you're trying to go around encouraging kids to be selfless, shouldn't you actually be a selfless person yourself? Obviously, faith doesn't really change that reality... it just makes me wonder, after reading all this, how many of these people are actually genuine altruists versus just putting on a massive show for the cameras?
Because honestly, taking one single letter where you can clearly see a difference in values among our kids from an airplane window and turning it into this massive drama? Writing this kind of nonsense? It’s just... sorry, it’s sad, and if you ask me, it’s pretty pathetic...

silentraven6 said:So, apparently there’s a scoring system now for how much of a human being you actually are?

Are you really out here grading a child on their humanity?

And what about these characters of yours and all this cheap, mindless rambling? Can I get a score for that too?

Minus ten, sister. A solid minus ten for those Catholic Jesus values of yours!

Just... ugh. Gross.

Yeah, exactly... it's just totally revolting how people want to brag about and put a value on a child's selflessness...👍🤣

Jacob Lewis5 said:Why though?
We aren't telling them they have to adopt our value system; we're just asking them to respect someone else's differences.

What part is demagoguery? What's the "shameful" bit exactly?

I didn't quite catch what you mean—but when you bring up demagoguery, I think there's nothing more manipulative than all this hysterics about privilege, or claims that one group is trampling over another. All this playing the victim and demonizing religious education... meanwhile, the curriculum itself focuses on Moses, Jesus, and Mary... and then moves into love and friendship in later grades. Honestly, I think there's plenty of demagoguery in those "equal" testimonies too—everyone seems to know some cousin or neighbor whose kid goes to that specific school where they scheduled religion right in the middle of the day. Nobody actually names the school or the schedule—because if they did, maybe something could actually be fixed. Instead, everyone just relies on hearsay.

The reality is, in American schools, you're mostly graded on how much you've memorized, how well you respect authority, and how ready you are to regurgitate what was taught earlier... there's almost no grading based on "humanity." You don't necessarily have to learn spiritual values through religious ed, but it's certainly not a problem if the class does it that way.

Look, obviously kids shouldn't be forced to rely solely on religious studies to learn how to be decent human beings, but when none of the other subjects actually emphasize character building, then teaching those things in religion class becomes incredibly vital—especially nowadays in this country, where kids are constantly being bombarded with hate, lies, and corruption at every single turn... it's everywhere.
And speaking as a parent, it matters way more to me that my kid hears the same values in that classroom that I'm trying to instill at home, rather than having them taught that basic human decency is some irrelevant afterthought just because nobody seems to care about it anywhere else anymore...

Jacob Lewis5 said:I’ve been catching up on the replies to my question from rhino and waterboy

shtefy asked me what the actual loss would be for kids' religious education if we limited instruction strictly to churches? My take? There wouldn't be any loss. But nobody actually asked me the real question: what would the gain be for religious education if we restricted it to just churches ? If I had to answer that—well, I’d say there’s zero gain for spiritual growth if you pull religion out of schools entirely!

Someone brought up the argument that cutting religion frees up more time for other subjects:
-can anyone actually guarantee that an extra hour of math or English will lead to better grades? Honestly, spending more time just memorizing formulas or grammar isn't a winning argument. Kids don't need *more* of that, especially when it's taught the way it currently is. What they actually need is religious studies as a subject where they learn about spiritual values. You'll pick up math (and computer science too) naturally over the years, but moral guidance is being totally ignored by our school system.

-hostility toward the Church
-prejudices
-complaining about "bad schools" that schedule religion right in the middle of the day (I know there are rules against doing that, and I haven't really seen it happen lately)
-the cost of paying teachers (it's cheaper to just let them go to the unemployment office)
-those tired old stories about forcing Christianity on people, which just don't hold water

Honestly, all of that sounds pretty terrible to me. It’s a cocktail of intolerance, lies, and penny-pinching at the expense of teachers who aren't exactly living large anyway, and losing their jobs would be a nightmare (and a pricey one for the government). When I see how people fight against the Church, it makes me appreciate its strong influence on society even more. If this kind of intolerance is the alternative, I'll take the Church—flaws and all. Religious education doesn't threaten anyone, it isn't privileged, and it sure as hell isn't being forced on anyone.

I mean, is that even a real argument? Is it?
Think about it—if you write the exact same essay during an English period and then again during a religion class, you aren't gaining the same kind of knowledge, nor are you being graded on the same criteria... if you're writing a > during English class, the teacher is looking at your grammar and spelling... but in religion class, they're mostly just checking to see how much of a good person you are, right?

http://example-us-school-district.edu/student-work?news_id=419

http://www.us-news-outlet.com/2013/12/letter-to-santa-claus-makes-you-want-to-cry/

Jerry Anderson87 said:http://www.foxnews.com/us-news/religious-education-debate
http://www.nytimes.com/topic/religion-in-schools
http://www.wsj.com/articles/faith-based-learning-impact

Are we actually seeing any real impact from religious education in schools?...

Do you honestly buy this stuff, or are you just falling for yet another dirty little game designed to stir up hate and get people on both sides totally worked up?😲

I mean, do you seriously think an article like this could be written by anyone who actually gives a damn about tolerance or possesses even a shred of altruism?

And really, do you truly believe that someone—who’s been told since they were knee-high to a grasshopper that being selfish is wrong, that being unkind to others is a sin, and that they should bow down to a deity who apparently only listens to one specific group—is going to turn out any different?😉

I don't know about you guys, but I am absolutely losing my mind over this whole situation. Is anyone else actually seeing what’s happening right now, or am I just hallucinating? It feels like every time we turn around, there's some new, ridiculous development that makes you want to just stare at a wall for three hours straight. Seriously, how does this even happen? You’d think after everything we’ve been through, we’d have learned a thing or two by now, but apparently not. It's just one thing after another, isn't it? It honestly feels like we're living in some kind of twisted social experiment where the goal is just to see how much nonsense we can handle before we all collectively snap. Does anyone else feel that creeping sense of "here we go again," or is it just me? Because I'm sitting here wondering if there's any point in even trying to make sense of it all when the logic seems to vanish the moment you try to grasp it. It's exhausting, truly. Just... exhausting. kaže:
...

Wait, did you just go ahead and shove your own take right into my text?😁 I mean, honestly, how are you even supposed to wrap your head around the whole thing? You just can't grab the full picture all at once, can you?😁So, you’ve got that little icon up there—you know, the one that looks like a quote mark? It's sitting right there on the second line, about fifteen lines down from the top. BSo, if you want to make things easier on yourself, just highlight the specific part of the message you’re talking about and hit that button to separate it from the rest—that way, everyone actually knows exactly which point you're hitting, right?

So, get this—apparently, if you want to go through with your sacraments, you can't just take religious studies at the church like you'd want to. According to how some of these local priests interpret things, you’re forced to pass that school-based version first, as if the two are somehow tethered together. It's like they're making them inseparable, right? Now, if you look at what the Vatican actually says, there isn't even a rule like that, but I guess it's just easier for our local "holy men" to play it that way and make life more complicated than it needs to be.

I mean, look, if you’re actually bothering to sit through religion classes just to check the boxes for First Communion or Confirmation, then isn't it kind of a logical leap to expect to know more than the kid who’s stuck grinding through eight or ten years of it in public school? I mean, how can you claim to be an expert when you only put in the work during those two brief stints in third and eighth grade, while they're getting hit with the full curriculum? Besides, nobody is actually forcing your hand to take religious ed in the school system, right? You could easily just head down to the local parish for all eight years if that was your thing. In some parishes around here, that’s pretty much the requirement anyway—to them, whatever happens in the school classroom is basically just white noise.

I mean, look, if you’re actually living out your faith, shouldn't hitting up Mass with your kid be the absolute highlight of your weekend? It really should be, right? But instead, people just go out of their way to cook up a hundred different excuses to dodge it. I even saw a story in the news about some church over here where a parent skipped out on Mass, and because they didn't show up, their kid ended up being denied a sacrament. It’s wild when you think about it.

I mean, I don't know about you guys, but for me, being a real believer isn't about how much you kiss the altar every single Sunday, right? It’s not about that performative stuff. A true person of faith is someone who actually lives by the commandments in their everyday life—not someone who puts on a big show inside the church doors only to turn around and stab people in the back the second they step out onto the sidewalk.🤷

*If we just cut those two hours of religious studies from the schedule, wouldn't Tuesday and Friday classes—say, for example—only run for five hours instead of six? I mean, think about it, wouldn't that stop kids from just sitting around in the hallway for an hour doing absolutely nothing? They’d actually get home an hour earlier, giving them plenty of time to knock out their homework, play some games, catch up on some reading... you know, actual life stuff. Isn't that a much better way to handle things?

If you take out two hours of religion class and swap them for three hours of computer science, you’d think you were doing these kids a favor, right? But honestly, if they end up spending four days with five classes and one day with six, have they actually been relieved of any pressure? Not even close. You aren't lightening their load; you're just cramming more onto an already overflowing plate.
Look, if we're talking about making religious studies or any kind of mandatory elective part of the school day—whether that’s the first period or the very last—I honestly don't have a single bone to pick with it. In fact, I’m all for it. Why should kids be forced to miss out on stuff just because some politicians are being hypocritical or trying to stick their noses into places they clearly don't belong? It’s pretty simple, really.😉I mean, if these geniuses who spend every single day cooking up some brand-new set of reforms are actually smart enough to push their agendas through without anyone stopping them, then don't they also have a moral obligation—and honestly, just plain old common sense—to be smart enough to make sure all that stuff actually works for everyone? Like, if you've got that much power to shake things up, shouldn't you have the wits to balance it all out so people actually end up better off and satisfied instead of just frustrated?😉....
look, let's just cut the crap and skip all those nasty political games—I'm definitely not interested in any of that ad hominem nonsense either 😁

I'm still sitting here staring at my screen, trying to wrap my head around how we even got to this point, you know? It feels like everyone is just shouting into the void without actually listening to a single word anyone else is saying. Is it just me, or has the whole conversation completely lost its way? We used to have these deep, nuanced discussions, but now it’s all just surface-level noise and instant reactions. I mean, seriously, does anyone actually care about the substance anymore, or are we all just performing for an audience that isn't even paying attention? It’s honestly exhausting to watch. kaže:
Check out these brilliant ideas—I mean, instead of actually risking their lives out in traffic, why not just have them sit right there in the hallway and grind through their homework until religion class kicks off? I mean, isn't that what hallways are even for, right? Just sitting on the floor doing schoolwork in the middle of the hall? Truly visionary stuff. 🙂
Look, we absolutely cannot be selfish when it comes to our kids, right? We really shouldn't deny them access to religious education classes because, honestly, that whole pedagogical approach is exactly what we need for the 21st century. I mean, let's face it, we’re living in an era of digital fluency and evolving social landscapes, not some outdated world defined by just desks and chairs. That old-school way of thinking is totally prehistoric—it's a completely obsolete concept if you ask me. 😬

Yeah... seriously, just look at these "brilliant" ideas they're throwing out there.😁We’re constantly obsessing over hallway space and classroom layouts like it’s some kind of grand architectural crisis, and God forbid anyone actually brings up the religious education classes—heaven forbid we even think about them! I mean, seriously, imagine if someone had the audacity to suggest that kids should just sit at their desks and finish those assignments while they're already in class... can you even picture that? Especially for the little first graders who can barely hold a pencil, let alone juggle extra subjects on the fly? It’s honestly laughable. And don't even get me started on the idea of actually sending a formal complaint to the Department of Education, demanding they reschedule those religion periods to the first or last bell, or telling them to just hire another instructor if it's such a logistical nightmare... why would we ever do that? Why bother making noise about the curriculum when we can just scream about hallway congestion instead and pretend we couldn't care less about our own core values when it comes to our kids?🙏

Jerry Anderson87 said:Look, we all know religious studies ended up in the school curriculum as a political compromise with the government. It’s common knowledge. I personally took my religion classes at church, and honestly, I didn't miss having them at school one bit... I already had plenty of other subjects and homework to deal with. And frankly, there's a whole different conversation to be had about how some parents get incredibly lazy, basically outsourcing their responsibility for religious upbringing to the school system. You only have to look at the percentage of parents who actually attend service with their kids on a regular Sunday—not just on Christmas or Easter—to see what I mean. And let’s be real, not everyone is working shifts at Walmart that force them to work on a "holy" Sunday. The core question in this PDF remains the same: why does religious studies get such preferential treatment compared to other elective courses, where kids actually have to trek across town to a different campus just to attend? ;-)

Great, so if we all know that, why on earth are these political nebulas trying to mess with the lives of kids who have absolutely nothing to do with this?
And who exactly is "shifting" their duty of religious upbringing onto schools? As far as I can tell, taking religion classes in school has zero connection to practicing faith in a church... the whole point of religious studies in school is just to learn about the faith, right? It doesn't mean someone automatically becomes a believer just because their kid sits through a class... it's just like how math class is about learning mathematics, not an indication that everyone is a mathematician...
Also, it's not like everyone needs to be working at Walmart to lack the time for Sunday service... nowadays, a massive chunk of people are grinding from Monday to Friday... and the only thing they have left is that weekend which only lasts 48 hours... are they going to go to church, or hit the movies, or visit a museum, take a walk through town, or just stay in bed and veg out? That's their choice, isn't it? And since when do we have the right to stick our noses in, to judge? Why is there even this desperate need to meddle in other people's business and try to dictate what they should be doing🤷?

Cutting two hours of religion a week from the schedule and replacing it with three hours of computer science doesn't mean kids will have less to study... in religion class, you aren't really expected to memorize things for tests, whereas in computer science, rote memorization is practically mandatory... so, are we actually lightening their load here, or just piling more on them?

Jerry Anderson87 said:Well, I figured I’d weigh in too. You lose about two hours a week per classroom when you factor in subjects like math or English... not to mention that time could be used for something like computer science, which is also an elective, right? I’m just glad my kid doesn't spend those hours wandering the halls since their class has religion as the very first or last period, but I know some families aren't as lucky. This year, we had a first-grade class with 21 students, and 14 of them chose NOT to take the religion course. And no, they didn't move the class to accommodate the majority; it stayed right in the middle of the schedule. So much for equality, I guess... It would have been easier if those seven kids could just switch to the other school shift, but of course, that's not how it works...

It's funny, isn't it? It's apparently a much better option to have those seven little first-graders commute on a different shift—meaning they cross busy American streets twice as often—rather than having someone sit in a hallway doing homework🤣 because their parents won't allow their kid to watch cartoons or listen to stories that they personally deem to be "nonsense"... even though reading fairy tales and watching cheap, violent cartoons every single day is considered absolutely essential for them....
If these people are going to complain, why are they complaining about religious studies being in the middle of the school day instead of playing the role of moral guardians and putting pressure on the kids who don't share their views? Do they really not care that forcing kids to travel to school twice a day increases the risk of accidents on the road? Or is it just that everything has to go exactly their way...🤣 because the only thing that matters is "my child," while everyone else can just fend for themselves?😲....

Sure, religious studies eats up two hours a week that could go toward math or English, but it doesn't eat into the PE time they have scheduled three times a week—well, actually, there's no room in the gym for all three sessions, so they have to settle for just once a week...🤦The other two hours where kids are basically drifting through the classroom? That doesn't count as wasting time, right?

Sorry, but reading this thread, the only question popping into my head is, "My goodness, people, can you see anything past the end of your own noses?" Seriously, before you start pushing your "ideals" so hard, do you ever stop to think about the actual consequences your actions cause? Or is your only goal just to get your own way?

By the way, regarding computer lab in first grade—do you honestly believe a seven-year-old is going to find learning about software, hardware, or what a byte is super thrilling...
Look, this is literally what they teach in the first year of computer class...
-identifying and naming computer parts and input/output devices and what they do
-naming the workspace
-how to properly turn a computer on and off
-how to use a mouse correctly
-knowing how to use certain keys on the keyboard
-properly using and caring for the CD/DVD drive
-taking care of input/output devices
-recognizing user interface elements and their functions
-working with windows
-understanding terms like quick menus and drop-down menus
-running programs like Art and the Recycle Bin
Do you really think kids who have computers at home don't already know this? Or do you think this stuff is somehow "challenging" material for first graders who don't have access to technology at home? Do you honestly think a seven-year-old finds any of this interesting?

slybison88 said:I grew up in the Catholic faith and I know it well, but I have no intention of teaching my child those things. I took religious ed and I've had all the sacraments, which is exactly why I don't want my kid believing in that stuff.

And I'm definitely not forcing Christmas two months early; I don't even have decorations up right now.
I might put up a tree just for the atmosphere. If I want it for the vibes, then that's that! I've got nothing against snowmen, ornaments, reindeer, or Santa Claus... I don't want to live in a bubble.
But I'm not teaching my kid about the Virgin Mary or Jesus.

If they want to choose for themselves one day, let them.

I wasn't even implying that you were personally trampling over Christmas two months ahead of time, I was talking more about the culture we live in... I was keeping it general.

And honestly, I just don't get it—why bother with the tree for "the vibe" or whatever if you aren't celebrating Christmas and don't believe in God? Fine, okay, whatever... but what happens one day when you actually have a little one running around asking why there's a tree in the house and why we do this specific stuff at this specific time?
What are you gonna tell them? Just "because everyone else does"?

And let me ask you this, just thinking out loud here: what kind of message are we sending as parents if we don't give kids any foundation at all (in this case, regarding faith)? Aren't you worried that someday someone might take advantage of that lack of knowledge and steer them in a direction you definitely wouldn't approve of?
From what I see when I'm meeting people, I get the impression that the most extreme religious fanatics are often the ones who knew absolutely nothing about God until just yesterday😁... maybe I'm wrong, who knows? But aren't you afraid that by saying "I don't want my kid learning about Jesus and the Virgin Mary," you're actually just creating the perfect breeding ground for exactly that kind of thing later on? I'm just asking as one parent to another, not trying to come for you.

slybison88 said:I don't have kids yet, but I definitely want them one day. 😁

My nephew just came home from preschool talking about all their holiday stuff, and now I’m sitting here wondering... honestly, I need some input.
With the holiday season kicking off, how should I even handle this?
Look, at my place, we’ll put up a tree and all that, but let’s be real—it’s mostly just for the vibes and because everything is so commercialized. We actually have two different faiths represented in our household, and I have zero intention of forcing any specific religion on my future kid.
I'm not planning on preaching about God, Jesus, or anything like that.
My nephew came home singing "Joy to the World," and it got me thinking... I get that he's just a kid and Christianity is a huge part of American culture, but I really don't want my child being taught songs about when Jesus was born, or about Muhammad either.

When it comes to school, I can choose religious education or not, and I’m definitely opting out of the religious classes. But what do I do about all this other stuff?

First off, please don't take this the wrong way, but I am genuinely stumped here.😁

Why bother putting up a tree just for the atmosphere and the commercialism?... why go against your own gut and just follow the crowd like everyone else?

So, okay, you don't believe in God, and you don't want your kid knowing anything about religion one day... fine. But if that's the case, why push the tree and all that stuff tied to it if you aren't willing to commit to the bit? Why not just give them the chance to learn the basics of every faith so they can decide for themselves when they're older?🤷...
I don't know, but personally, I feel like being aware of different religions today is actually an advantage, not a drawback. By learning about them, we see the common threads between people, and it means no one can ever sell us some nonsense story about a "bad" Catholic, or a bad Muslim... it'll just be about a bad person who's using faith as an excuse.

I'm Catholic myself, and I celebrate Christmas, but man, it drives me absolutely crazy when Christmas starts getting forced on us two months early by people who don't even care about the holiday. They don't understand the symbolism or the Catholic faith at all; they just want to push it harder and earlier every single year...

analogseal18 said:I don't find you particularly well-informed on this matter.
With the transition to a nine-year K-12 system, there is a proposal to introduce a kindergarten-style preparatory year, where children undergo the necessary foundational training that is currently handled in preschool—but under a structured curriculum rather than just a "play whenever we feel like it" approach. We are talking about learning how to retell stories, counting with actual comprehension, and mastering basic penmanship. While most kids seem to have these skills down, the reality is that they don't, and the disparity in readiness among incoming first graders is staggering; those who arrive without these basics struggle immensely to grasp reading, writing, and math. One could argue this can be rectified if parents step up, but isn't it far more logical to instill these habits early on rather than burdening students with extra hours of remedial homework once school has already begun?

Regarding vocational nursing programs, the curriculum remains just as rigorous as it was under the old four-year models. Students still retain the theoretical path to medical school; they simply need to excel on their high school exit exams and pass the university entrance tests. Even now, only a select few manage to achieve that. This is because the requirements for medical school demand a much broader spectrum of knowledge than mere patient care—which is the core focus for a nurse—whereas doctors primarily require a different subset of that expertise.
Those who graduate from a specialized nursing high school do not possess some sort of "lite version" of medical knowledge, nor are they halfway to becoming physicians; furthermore, medical school professors do not waste precious lecture time re-teaching what was already covered in vocational training. Instead, they move straight into advanced coursework that requires a broad intellectual foundation and the mental stamina to process massive amounts of data into cohesive knowledge. These specific cognitive skills are cultivated in a traditional American preparatory high school if one is a high-achieving student. It is important to remember that even a top-tier student from an elite prep school does not automatically possess the capacity to survive medical school.

😁
Honestly, this is just repackaging everything kids used to do in preschool, except now it’s being moved into a school building instead of a daycare center, and instead of just twice a week (about 250 hours a year), it’ll be every single day (that's 600 hours!). Like I said before, it feels like we're just conditioning these little kids from the moment they can walk to sit still and take it, basically introducing them to a life of labor without any actual downtime.😁

As far as nursing vocational schools go, they aren't teaching anything less or any differently than they did under the old four-year program. And theoretically, they can still apply to medical school after. They just need to absolutely crush the advanced level of their high school exams and pass the entrance tests. Even now, only a tiny handful actually pull it off. That's because the requirements for med school demand a much deeper, broader knowledge base than just patient care, which is really the core subject matter for a future nurse, whereas doctors only need a smaller slice of that specific knowledge.
Those who graduated from a vocational nursing program don't just have "some basics" to become a doctor, and it's definitely not true that they are halfway there in terms of knowledge. Med school professors don't waste their time teaching students things that were already covered in vocational school; they move straight into entirely different courses where it's vital for students to have a broad foundation, the mental stamina to absorb massive amounts of data, and the ability to synthesize it all. You pick up those skills in a traditional high school if you're a top-tier student. Not every high schooler even has the capacity to make it through med school.

They aren't learning anything less or different than when it was a four-year program.🤦

Having general education subjects for all four years versus just the first two is a huge distinction—it's not the same thing as constantly honing your skills every day before taking finals versus having a three-year gap in your knowledge for the exact same subject.

In this reform, just like every other overhaul they try to push through here in the States, the main goal is just to be able to say "we implemented a reform." It doesn't matter if the reform actually drags us back ten years... the important part is pretending to push through some European-style ideals, regardless of whether they actually work in practice.

Medicine is medicine, and specialized subjects are specialized subjects. This idea that a doctor only needs a small portion of what a nurse learns is just proof that you're talking about something you don't understand...
Under the current educational model, a nurse with higher certification (knowledge-wise) actually has a much greater advantage over a doctor who just barely walked out of med school... by the time they finish their vocational training, their level of knowledge is on par with a third-year med student, if not higher....
Look, it’s a whole different ballgame when we start asking ourselves if having some fancy piece of paper actually matters more than just being damn good at what you do. I mean, what are we even doing here? Are we really going to prioritize checking boxes to make sure everything lines up perfectly with some bureaucratic federal mandate, even when those rules don't make sense for the job, instead of focusing on providing actual, high-quality vocational training that people can actually use? It’s wild, right? We’re basically deciding whether we want mindless compliance or the kind of real-world expertise that everyone—literally everyone—is counting on to keep things running smoothly.

Susan James said:one truly excellent interview

Are we actually afraid of gifted students?
?
It feels like we’re instinctively wary of anyone who stands out from the crowd—whether it’s someone with a different background, skin color, or faith. We tend to teach an imaginary "average" student, but that student doesn't exist. Potential comes in endless varieties. Our education system should be designed to create an environment where young people can truly flourish. For gifted kids, we need systemic solutions: early identification, flexible learning outcomes, shifting our instructional approaches, adjusting the pace, and reimagining the classroom setting. If a student is exceptionally bright, they should have the option to work with a mentor outside of school hours. As a society, I feel we are far too insensitive to the incredible wealth of talent we possess.

This really reminded me of those discussions about brain drain and that post by Lunin.

And also this:

In Forbes, you took aim at parents who overschedule their kids with extracurriculars, didn't you?

The truth is, what we assume is best for our children often isn't. Most kids—kids from families like ours—are managed so tightly by their parents that they don't even have free time anymore. But honestly? Messing around, scrolling through a phone, reading comics, or even just staring blankly at a wall... all of that does more to develop a child than we realize. Boredom is one of the greatest catalysts for creativity. Humans aren't meant to be nothing more than productivity machines.

The snippets they quote sound pretty promising, right? Until you actually sit down and read the whole thing and realize it’s nothing but a massive pile of empty platitudes🤦—it honestly feels like this calculated attempt to mold kids into these compliant little drones who’ll eventually spend eight hours a day at some corporate desk just nodding along without saying a single word.

For example, we get: "Young people learn way more effectively outside the classroom. Life is the ultimate teacher... Parents structure their children's free time so tightly that they don't even have any left. "
But then, oh boy,
suddenly he's talking about a nine-year schooling track and adding yet another mandatory subject to the mix.🤣

I mean, look at our first graders today; they're lugging around backpacks that weigh over eleven pounds, which is easily more than a quarter of their total body weight (the average six-year-old is only about 43 pounds)... and now they want to dump even more on them? It's just one thing after another.

All of this just brings me back to that mess when they overhauled the nursing programs, where those kids ended up losing their shot at getting into medical school because of the "reform." All that specialized knowledge they could have been honing just goes down the drain, and then professors at the universities have to waste precious time teaching the absolute basics instead of starting from somewhere halfway decent.
Plus, five years after that rollout, places like Blue Cross Blue Shield act like you're speaking an alien language if you even mention the five-year program exists; they just stare at you like you've lost your mind.🤦

bluemason3 said:If he’s just a placebo trigger, then the person actually helped themselves. He's just taking all the credit based on a false interpretation of what actually happened.😁

Honestly, I’m gonna have to disagree with you there... I mean, if we actually had the power to fix ourselves just by thinking about it, wouldn't we have done it already? 😁
otherwise, why would we even need guys like braco

Paul Jones7 said:

I guess I should probably mention Tanita... though honestly, I'm not entirely sure if I'm getting this right—it’s one of those things where you think you have a handle on it, then you realize you've only seen the surface, maybe? Anyway, just some thoughts floating around my head today. kaže:
The world is just crawling with people looking to pull a fast one—it really is. But I guess if someone manages to hustle their way into actually helping someone out... then maybe it isn't even a con anymore. It’s a weird thought, I know. Maybe it's just a different kind of luck.🙂

So, how do you actually figure out if a total con artist actually helped, rather than just giving you a placebo effect? I mean, it's a tricky one—it’s hard to tell where the actual result ends and the sheer power of suggestion begins. Maybe it's just wishful thinking? I don't know. It’s a bit of a gray area, really.

I mean, there’s really nothing to uncover here, right? If that guy happens to be the trigger for someone's placebo response, then he’s the one who did the heavy lifting—period. Everything else is just pointless overthinking and useless philosophy.😁

electrictinker26 said:You're right, and what you're saying makes sense. I was just trying to experiment with a different approach. I'm back to my old way of living now, not surrounded by those four white walls, but my only real fear is that these desires are endless.

Don't sweat it too much, man; everything falls into place when it's supposed to, so just stop pushing so hard or trying to force things to happen by sheer willpower... honestly, just let life take its course... whatever is grabbing your attention right now, or even those distractions pulling you away from your goals, just trust me when I say it's all happening for a reason... and really, that's where the whole secret lies...😁