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Posts by Lawrence Torres56

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Pros and cons of spiritual practices in Spirituality ·
electrictinker26 said:I see your point, but once you already own a TV and a house full of stuff, the goal is to clear it all out so your attention isn't pulled in a thousand different directions. I wasn't really thinking about escaping to the wilderness. My idea was more about shedding all desire entirely—living with that minimalist, Zen-like simplicity you see in certain Eastern philosophies where everything is stripped down to the bare essentials. That was my focus. And in terms of gaining insight, it worked. Once you truly reach a state where you no longer crave anything, you can finally say, "God, come to me, I'm bored."

You're starting from the wrong end of the equation here; the stuff sitting around you isn't the actual issue, it's that "attention" of yours that keeps getting hijacked by external noise😉...well, actually, it's whatever happens to be interesting, regardless of why...and until that specific mental click happens inside your head, you aren't ever going to truly break free from those cravings.
That whole minimalist thing, that Zen concept of just having four white walls, isn't about preventing distractions; it's because those walls are complete in themselves, and adding even one extra little thing would just mess up their perfect harmony...
And once you finally hit that sweet spot, you'll realize that God doesn't show up just because you're bored; He shows up when you actually, truly need Him.😉
Braco from Silverman in Spirituality ·
bluemason3 said:I’m actually pretty impressed by the sheer cunning here 😳

The world is crawling with these spiritual gurus, but most of them at least have the decency to sell you a specific story.

The scheme he’s built is different—he doesn't pitch anything, stays completely unaccountable, and claims everything is free while somehow making sure it isn't...

It's just a classic American hustle, really. 🙏 🙏 🙏

Kraljgazdacar 😳 🤣

If you're looking for proof, you're basically asking for nothing from someone like you.😒

The whole planet is full of scammers, but hey, if a con artist actually ends up helping someone out for once... does that even count as a con anymore?🙂
Pros and cons of spiritual practices in Spirituality ·
electrictinker26 said:Personally, I don't find all these theories particularly useful. God isn't a theory. But I suppose the mind likes to wander when it's bored. In reality, you can connect with God whenever you choose, but life tends to get in the way—you want to grab some food, catch a football game, follow the news, enjoy intimacy, or focus on building a family and providing for them. There’s nothing wrong with any of that, but it's just how it is. I once had an experience where I decided to live as simply as possible for a month. It backfired because I got incredibly bored. I remember lying in bed, tossing and turning, my mind racing, when this thought suddenly hit me—in English, since I sometimes think that way—as if God were asking, "May I enter?" And I answered, "Yes." Suddenly, I felt this overwhelming surge of power. It was brief, maybe just a fraction of a second, but it felt like if I had stayed in that state, the intensity would have been too much to bear, or I might never have recovered. Who knows. I still believe in God and I genuinely want to know Him, but I feel I need to gather more knowledge on how to proceed. Spirituality isn't a game. I think someone mentioned earlier that trying to feed the ego by collecting degrees or finishing five different colleges is a distraction...

Look, living a simpler life from a spiritual perspective isn't some lazy excuse to just rot on the couch all day, you know? It’s actually about stripping away those layers of addiction we have to material junk... like, I don't feel the need to run down to Best Buy to pick up some massive 4K TV just because, especially when staring at a screen like that just drains my soul anyway. Instead, wouldn't it be better to just head out into the woods and spend the afternoon foraging for mushrooms?😁So, picture this: your washing machine finally kicks the bucket, right? And instead of throwing a massive tantrum or losing your mind, you just kind of stare at it blankly because, let’s be real, you don't exactly have a mountain of cash sitting around to go out and drop hundreds on a shiny new appliance from Best Buy. So what do you do? You just shrug, move right past that broken hunk of metal like it isn't even there, and start scrubbing your clothes by hand in the sink like it's the freaking 1800s? Is that just how life works now?😉

David Vaughn75 said:Look, if you really dig into the definition, spirituality is basically just the antithesis of the material world—we're talking about stuff that doesn't play by the rules of cause and effect or that whole deterministic grind we're stuck in. All those pros and cons people obsess over? Those are just different sides of the same coin in this physical, material mess we live in.

👍 Well said.
I'm in. Count me in on this one.
Braco from Silverman in Spirituality ·
wearyowl29 said:So, I found myself hanging out at Srebrenjak 1 today, over by Braco's place.
Curiosity definitely got the better of me, and before I knew it, a crowd had already gathered around the scene.
Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised by how well everything was organized!
Was anyone else around there today?😛

Are we talking about the organization, or is there something else going on here?😉

I wasn't there myself, so I don't even know what to make of it all, though honestly, I probably would've swung by just out of pure curiosity...
I mean, I haven't a clue how the whole setup works—do you actually need to make a reservation, or can you just show up at the door? Come on, give us the details...
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Jason Ortiz5 said:I actually had computer science as an elective back in 1st grade, so please don't lecture me on what I do or don't know.
The church's stance on human sexuality is also pretty offensive.

Look, any computer science class you actually paid tuition for definitely wasn't an elective... and trust me, I know exactly what I'm talking about.😉
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Nica;56120960 said:
Man, this whole thing just gives me flashbacks to that email that was flying around at the start of the year—you know, the one where none of the parents with "at-risk" kids actually wanted to sign off on it? Or that one parent who kept flooding the local papers with letters claiming their kid was being bullied over religious studies, complaining that the Department of Education wasn't even responding to them, only to eventually admit they were sending everything from a fake profile?😁

If you ask me, if there’s a real issue here, people need to step up and put their names on it—full name and all—especially when we're talking about our own kids. If we actually want to fix things, we have to take it to the places where things actually get resolved. To me, staying anonymous and just screaming into the void on forums or writing angry letters to the news feels less like solving anything and more like just trying to force your will on everyone else through pure aggression.🤷

They aren't. The library at my kids' elementary school was basically closed most of the time anyway, and honestly, there wasn't even a single desk or chair in there where a kid could actually sit down.

Actually, they are, because by law, those kids have to be supervised during that period. Any school that isn't following through on that is straight-up breaking the law.
And look, if the library is a total mess and doesn't have decent conditions, there should be some other room available that does.

Yeah. It's not just about religious studies; the problem lies with the Church, the schools, the government, and pretty much everyone who let things get to a point where we even have kids who need to be kept busy while others are in elective classes.

It's always "everyone and everything is the problem," except for us—we're never part of the problem, right?😁
Personally, I don't have a problem with finding alternative activities for the kids who aren't taking religious studies during that block, but you parents seriously need to get on the same page first and then organize something... but as long as you guys can't agree among yourselves, nobody's coming to save you...
Why are you defending their decision?
And why won't you tell me where your numbers are when a minority is forced to suffer the consequences just because of the majority?

Wait, what makes you think I'm defending them?😁...It's because I'm looking at this political decision just like any other.
Sorry, I didn't even see that question earlier—don't worry, I'm not dodging it.😁
Nobody should have to deal with negative consequences; there's such a thing as adaptation... in this case, there's a legal obligation to ensure that minority group is taken care of... if the school isn't honoring that, then you go to the Department of Education... talk to them, you have the law on your side.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Keith Howard89 said:I don’t even have a kid in school yet, but I was eavesdropping on some moms the other day and my jaw hit the floor. One of them was claiming that the school district moved Computer Science to a Saturday elective—which, let's be real, nobody is showing up for—but they kept Religious Studies right in the middle of the regular weekday schedule. And get this: apparently, kids are signing up for Religious Studies in droves just because it doesn't require trekking into school on a Saturday. Tell me I’m hallucinating. Tell me I didn't just hear that correctly. There is absolutely no way an actual American school system would operate with that kind of blatant, ridiculous logic—it's just absurd. 🕺

Edit: Honestly, this might actually belong in the thread about religious education—if it does, please move it over.

If that computer science class is happening on a Saturday when school isn't even in session, then you better believe they’re gonna charge extra for it. I mean, seriously, if they're making us show up on a weekend, why wouldn't they try to squeeze some more cash out of us?
So, just to clear things up for anyone wondering—computer science as an elective isn't even on the table until fifth grade. I mean, come on, you can't exactly start teaching advanced tech electives when the kids are still in first grade, right? It just doesn't make sense to jump into that kind of curriculum that early.
Keith Howard89 said:I completely missed the mark regarding how those elective courses work—I honestly thought you were required to pick at least one, so I probably just mixed everything up in my head while signing up.

On another note, my niece came home two days ago absolutely shell-shocked after her religion class. She’s only in 4th grade, and I am telling you, the teacher explained abortion to them in the most revoltingly graphic way imaginable. Every single kid in that class went home and told their parents the exact same story, which led to a bunch of parents contacting the school to demand to know what they’re going to do about it. Honestly, I have no clue what the administration can even do at this point. This teacher has had her fair share of outbursts before, but this? This was a whole new level of inappropriate...

Let’s be real—people still act like abortion is this massive, disgusting taboo, even though we're living in a world where kids are basically hitting milestones involving intimacy by the time they're in fourth or fifth grade. It’s wild, right? Yet for most parents out there, it remains this huge, heavy subject that everyone just avoids at all costs. I mean, let’s face it, nobody in their right mind is going to try to sugarcoat it or make it sound pretty when the reality is what it is.
Honestly, wouldn't it be pretty useful to actually dig into what sparked this whole thing in the first place when we're talking about abortion?😉
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
rustydrifter10 said:The thing is, some kids aren't being supervised at all. And honestly, why should those kids be left to wander around on their own, trying to figure things out or bothering the librarian and other teachers to watch them when it’s clearly not part of their job description and they aren't even getting paid extra for it? It's just not fair to the staff.

But let's be real: for years now, they've been choosing not to fix this because those special agreements with the Vatican are treated as being above the Constitution of the United States. No politician in power wants to touch the issue of religious classes in public schools, because if they did, they'd probably lose their cushy seats in Washington before they could even blink.

rustydrifter10, come on, let's stick to actual arguments instead of just repeating hearsay... which kids are we talking about here, and why exactly are they left hanging?
I mean, isn't it common knowledge that the school's responsibility is to look after these kids during that specific period when they aren't attending the class...
Let's get real: who are these kids supposedly wasting time, and why are they wasting it? And which parents are actually making these claims?
Can we please try to step outside our own biases for once?
Elementary teachers are required to be with those students during that hour, the librarian handles the older kids, and the library is always open... if we really have to go out of our way to micromanage a fifth grader or an eighth grader, then is the real issue the religious class or something else entirely?
The librarian is doing her job, the kids are doing what they want—reading, writing, studying... and if they don't feel like it, nobody can force them, just like nobody can force them to learn or finish their math homework... which, by the way, is legally protected territory... and if any teacher or professor tried to bully a kid into doing something they didn't want to do, the news would be all over it, and those "wonderful and caring" parents would be breathing down everyone's necks in a heartbeat...
What other options are there? When you realize that from the fourth grade up, it's practically impossible to form even one single class consisting only of kids who *don't* take this elective subject...

And what does that tell us? That as a society, we're hypocritical, intolerant... etc... so let's just keep encouraging that, while simultaneously preaching loudly about how much we value tolerance and honesty...
Look, I know all this, but I have to ask: what did I or my kid ever do to make you target *me* specifically? Why do you want to take your frustrations out on me and my child? You know as well as I do that neither you nor I were ever consulted on this matter... this was all signed and settled by politicians behind closed doors.
So why not direct that anger toward the people who actually made this happen?
Sorry, but I truly don't get what this approach is supposed to achieve (not just from you, but generally speaking)😉—if you think you can intimidate me, let me tell you right now: it's not going to work.
Even if that's how most people operate, that doesn't fly with me, and I'll always push back against it.
And if you think you can just force your will on me... well, forget it.
Just come to me like an adult. Say, "My child views this as a punishment, and I'll always support them," and do it for the kid, not for yourself. I'll always stand by you when you're fighting to ensure your child gets to spend that hour however they choose... but don't lie to my face, don't act, and don't try to force things on me while playing the victim just because you think it's the "cool" way to get your way.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Quincy:
I mean, honestly, what even is this? Just "rhino"? Is that it? Are we really just going to drop a single word like that and expect me to do all the heavy lifting? It’s almost impressive how little effort went into this, isn't it? Like, did you just wake up, look at a rhinoceros, and decide that was the absolute pinnacle of discourse for today? I'm sitting here waiting for some kind of point, some kind of vibe, or even just a coherent thought, but instead, I get... this. What are we even doing here? kaže:
I wouldn't exactly say we have much of a choice in the matter, you know? Like, if religion class is just one period, sure, I can just let her sleep in at home. No biggie. But if it’s a three-period block? There's no way on earth I'm picking her up from school mid-morning, driving her out to grab some ice cream, and then somehow racing back to get her settled in time for fourth period. It's just not happening.

I’ve already mentioned this before, but I was talking to some parents whose kids are heading to the same school mine is, and they were actually pushing to swap out religion class for an extra foreign language elective. It didn't fly with the administration, obviously. Apparently, since it would happen during regular school hours, the district won't allow some outside language academy to just swoop in and run classes on campus like that. Plus, there's the whole equity issue—since it would be an extra fee, wouldn't that basically mean we're creating a divide where kids whose families don't have the extra cash get left behind? It would just be blatant discrimination, right?
Look, I am more than willing to foot the bill for a second foreign language. Honestly, if my kid has to be stuck in a classroom anyway, I’d much rather they be learning German, Mandarin, Urdu, or something else entirely—especially since I have zero interest in driving them around to extra classes after the school bell rings. It’s funny, isn't it? It reminds me exactly of those hardcore religious folks who are all about their Sunday school or after-school religious ed. Both groups are super eager for their kids to pick up something new, but suddenly, when it comes to actually making it an official part of the school day instead of an after-school add-on, they get all hesitant. Why does everything have to be an "extra" when it could just be part of the curriculum? 🥳

When it comes to the whole school grind—memorizing stuff, grinding through required reading, tackling math—you’ve got certain teachers who actually step up and make sure that happens. But then you run into this massive headache with after-school programs. I mean, what are those kids even supposed to do there? If the program isn't actually set up to facilitate studying, then what's the point of them sitting there for hours? You end up with this huge question mark hanging over everything: if they aren't being guided to actually learn during those extra hours, what exactly are they meant to be doing with all that time?
So then you’ve got this teacher going above and beyond, right? She’s putting in all this extra effort to engage the kids, maybe running through some intense math puzzles or brain teasers just to keep them sharp, and suddenly the parents of the religious kids start making a huge stink about it. They start complaining that their little ones are being "left behind" academically, and then—get this—they actually have the nerve to demand that she spends the entire class period teaching those same math problems during the hours when religious studies aren't even on the schedule. Like, seriously? Since when did wanting your kid to be good at math become a grievance?

So, let's talk about tolerance for a second, shall we? It’s one of those words that everyone loves to throw around these days like it's some kind of magic spell, but does anyone actually know what it means anymore? Is it just a polite way of saying "I'll put up with you until you annoy me," or is there something deeper to it? I mean, honestly, where do we draw the line before everything just turns into a giant, messy free-for-all? 🥳

Honestly, once you get into the upper grades, it’s like nobody even bothers to watch the kids anymore, and they are just completely left to their own devices. Is anyone actually looking out for them? Because from where I'm sitting, they're basically running wild without a single adult giving a damn.
So, look, librarians around here have tried to get some workshops off the ground, right? We’ve had a few psychologists and social workers drop by to try and run these sessions, but they usually only bother if there’s at least five kids signed up—because let’s be real, if you've got fewer than that, it’s just not worth the effort or the headache. But even when we could actually get a group together, we hit this massive wall. You’d have these religious parents stepping in, totally bugging out because their kids weren't part of these "super cool" activities, and suddenly everyone's making a scene about why their little ones were being left out of the loop. It’s always something, isn't it?

And just like that... tolerance. 🐔🙂
I honestly have no idea how many of these parents aren't even that devout, yet they’re still out here dragging their kids to Sunday school at the local parish just so they can check the box for First Communion in the third grade. Like, if you’re actually that committed to the faith, I guess it makes sense, right? But then again, looking at it from my perspective, I’m just not sure I could pull it all off. Between juggling my actual life and trying to squeeze in religious education sessions in the afternoons, I don't know if I could make the math work without eventually having to sit my kid down and tell them, "Look, you’ve gotta pick a side."

Look, like I’ve already said, I totally get where those parents are coming from—the ones looking at their kid’s watch and seeing a gaping hole in their schedule and wondering, "What on earth is my child actually doing all day?" Honestly, as both a parent and just a person, none of that feels questionable or even worth debating to me. I will always have your back if you're fighting to make sure your kid gets to spend their time actually learning what they’re passionate about. And frankly? I’ll always roll my eyes at the people making a massive drama out of nothing, trying to gatekeep what other kids should be allowed to pursue, whether it's science, a second language, or whatever else. It honestly turns my stomach when I see people who don't even know what they want themselves—let alone what their kids want—yet they feel entitled to swoop in and tell everyone else how they should live or what their children should be doing. It's just exhausting.

That’s exactly why I said it—parents really need to just let their kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once. Honestly, this whole headache wouldn't even be an issue if it weren't for the adults in the room. It isn't the kids causing the trouble, and it's definitely not the religious studies classes; the problem lies exclusively with the parents.

Look, if your kid is spending that hour playing in the backyard or snacking on some Takis, I’m really not going to lose any sleep over the fact that my kid wants to do something different—even if they're being "denied" because of religious studies. My child made the choice to take religion; nobody forced them into it, and it’s certainly not their place to strip away someone else's options just to get what they want....

The after-school staff at the local elementary school are literally paid to keep those kids entertained once the homework is out of the way....So when certain idiots start making a scene, let them scream, honestly, because our entire education system tends to go overboard with everything... Back when I was a kid in grade school, we didn't have elective religious studies, sure, but parents didn't get to pick which grade level or even which language we studied... The school just dictated the curriculum and that was that. Nowadays, parents are allowed to choose almost everything, and then certain people think they have the right to demand absolutely anything under the sun... And frankly, we need to put an end to that, not for my sake, but for the sake of all the kids... Because if someone can't wrap their head around the idea that you can't build a whole classroom based solely on my personal preferences, then that classroom simply cannot exist... My kid can't be in two places at once, so a decision has to be made, plain and simple; there isn't a third option. Depriving someone of what they actually want just so my kid can do the exact same thing is pure stupidity, especially when it's happening during the time my kid is busy doing what they actually enjoy...

At our local school, the library is always open and anyone can drop in whenever they feel like it. The older kids are smart enough to decide how they want to spend that hour anyway; the ones who actually care about their GPA will always find something to study, while the ones who don't? Well, their heads are already somewhere else entirely... So I really don't see the issue here... And I honestly can't stand the parents who throw a fit because their kid has a gap in their schedule due to religious studies, yet they don't say a word when their kid skips math class entirely...

There's zero tolerance on either side, obviously, but it's not about you or me—it's about the people who cause a massive drama storm just because the whole world doesn't revolve around their child and everyone isn't constantly catering to their every whim...
Every parent cares about their own child, and there's nothing wrong with that. What *is* wrong is when I try to take something away from your kid just because my kid won't be able to do it, or when you try to do the same to mine just to satisfy your own... So now the question is: are all parents and all kids supposed to regress to the level of toddlers over these tiny little grievances, or are we all going to step up, shut down this behavior, and find a way to accommodate all the kids instead of just our own?

Watching the parents in my daughter's class, it's always the same group making noise—people who don't even know what they want themselves, and their kids don't know either, unlike the parents who actually have a clue and whose kids follow suit.... It's always some ridiculous drama over nonsense, like why my kid wasn't picked for the best costume, why my kid's photo didn't make it onto the bulletin board, why a test shouldn't be canceled just because my kid got an F, or why my kid sits next to certain classmates... It's always the same crowd, the same trivial nonsense, and always the same lies and attempts to manipulate the situation.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
rustydrifter10 said:Look, it’s not about denying anyone anything. Your child could take religious studies during the first period or the last, they could switch to the afternoon session entirely, or even just head over to a local church if that fits better. The reality is that my kid doesn't have any other place to go for that hour while religious studies is happening, and there isn't anyone available to watch them.

Look, Lawrence Torres56, you're totally missing the mark here because her kid is actually perfectly fine for that hour—in most cases, those kids are just hanging out in the school library with their teacher... and hey, if they have it during the last period, they just get to head home early, right?
My kid—and honestly, I’m talking about all twenty-two kids in that classroom—doesn't exactly have the luxury of picking the first or last period every single time just because it’s convenient; it’s physically impossible to schedule it like that, and it’s not some selfish whim on my part either... plus, if they decide religious education can only happen at a church, then sure, she'll go to the church if she wants to, just like she chooses to attend the sessions held at school right now by her own free will...

And seriously, if you truly believe what she's saying—that it's perfectly fine to shuffle twenty-two different kids into a different school shift just so one single student doesn't have to spend an hour in the library—then please, be my guest and write a formal complaint to the Department of Education or the school board; I won't stop you... if they actually decide to listen to you, hey, I don't mind accommodating one person's specific needs if that's how they want to play it.😉
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
silentraven6 said:hiddenpuma3: "Quote:"

Honestly, I think your comment stems from a pretty fundamental lack of political and socio-ethical literacy. And if I’m being completely honest? I’d probably add religious illiteracy to that list, too.

Look, here’s how I see it: democracy isn't about the majority just steamrolling everyone else. That's not what it's for. Real democracy means respecting the choices made by the majority, sure, but those choices have to be made with the well-being of every single person in the community in mind. It shouldn't be about forcing one set of beliefs into every classroom; it's more about finding that balance where we acknowledge different perspectives and simply learn to respect one another.

Secularism isn't just some abstract concept; it’s about drawing clear lines. It means keeping the church and the state separate, making sure our school systems stay independent from religious institutions too. To me, that separation makes everything much simpler to wrap your head around—it clarifies exactly how we should handle things like elective courses without all the messy overlap.

These kinds of shallow takes are actually pretty dangerous for democracy and for anything involving true inclusivity. They’re built on nothing more than habit and unthinking assumptions—there's just zero genuine curiosity there. People like this aren't actually interested in getting to the heart of the matter, which in this case is faith. Honestly, it feels like this kind of superficiality is just a personality trait for them; they tend to be this way about everything.

I'm with you on that one point—there are way too many people in our society acting like hypocrites. They push for these things just because they don't want to deal with the surgical complications or the extra headaches later on. It’s all about avoiding personal inconvenience. As for the actual science? We are miles away from anything being truly practical in a real-world sense.

It’s honestly such a bizarre situation when you think about it. My kid doesn't even take religious studies at school, yet they just decide—completely on their own initiative—to cross themselves before a meal. And suddenly, I'm getting all these confused looks and questions from teachers and other kids in the class. Why the interrogation, though? It's because 90% of those kids don't even have that kind of practice in their own households.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!😉
So, what, I should just go ahead and become illiterate too? Is that the plan?🎉

Who on earth is bringing up politics and democracy here? Seriously... let’s just cut the crap and drop the insinuations and the political demagoguery, alright? Look, you don't have to agree with my take—that's your right—but why the hell the sudden accusations?😲😁
Look, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we aren't actually going to be a true secular nation until we finally draw a hard line between the state and the church. Honestly, as long as we keep talking about separation while simultaneously leaning on phrases like "God willing" or keeping religious education in our public schools, all this talk about being a secular country is nothing more than empty noise. It's just pure theater, you know? Can we really claim to be separate when our very language and school systems are still wrapped up in religious tradition? To me, it's all just talk until we actually walk the walk.😉 And honestly, I just don't see any point in us clinging to something that isn't even true, you know? Why would we bother pretending when the facts are staring us right in the face?

Honestly, I don't even have an issue with most people, whether they belong to the majority or the minority groups out there.
I’m honestly just asking from a purely human perspective here—is this actually okay? Like, does it make any sense for twenty-two students and their twenty-two parents to all have to bend over backwards and adjust their entire lives around one or two people? We're talking about everyone having to coordinate afternoon trips to religious education classes twice a week, just because. Is it really reasonable to expect that many families to shift their schedules, or shouldn't those one or two people—and their parents—just stand their ground on their beliefs? Why can't they just let things be and not cause a whole scene while the kids are hanging out in the library during those classes? Seriously, which way is actually more practical or even remotely doable for everyone involved?
I mean, honestly, would the same people demanding all this from everyone else actually have the guts to say the exact same thing if the tables were turned tomorrow? Would they really stand by those same principles if they were the ones sitting in the hot seat instead of pointing fingers? It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Look, I’m saying this with total sincerity here—and please, don't take this the wrong way because I'm really not trying to offend anyone—but I honestly get the feeling that if we just let kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once, this whole mess wouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Isn't it funny how we adults act like we're all about preaching tolerance from our high horses, while we're simultaneously the ones fueling all this intolerance and hatred? We're basically creating the very problems we claim to be fighting, aren't we?

So, is my kid actually going to go through with getting baptized, start talking about God, or whatever? Honestly, it’s not even on my radar, and it's definitely not something that's causing me any sleepless nights. I mean, let him do his thing, right? As long as he isn't out there hurting people or causing chaos, why should I care? It honestly cracks me up when people make such a massive production out of this stuff—like, why all the heavy drama and the intense scrutiny over something so personal?
It is honestly hilarious—like, laugh-out-loud ridiculous—that someone actually thinks they can strip away rights from an entire class of kids just because it doesn't suit their own kid or their personal agenda😉, right? I mean, where does this even end? Tomorrow, someone’s going to decide math is too difficult, so why not just scrap math altogether? Then it’ll be English lit next, and before you know it, we’re looking at the total abolition of the school system itself☕ because there will always be someone out there who’s unhappy with how things work.

My little one isn't going to participate in PE tomorrow because she’s got this cough and feels like she might be running a fever... so she’ll just be sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else play... and what am I supposed to do here, really? Should I go demand that the teacher or the school cancels PE for the whole damn class just so my child doesn't feel isolated or left out?

If you look at it through a certain lens, it’s the exact same headache we deal with regarding religious education, just applied to a different subject... and would it even be decent of me to make that demand? Even if, by some twisted logic, I technically have the right to ask for it?
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Jason Ortiz5 said:I’ll just say one thing: I didn't come here as a guest. I was born right here; this is my home. I live here, I pay my taxes (including those for people who earn way more but dodge them—you know the type, always sitting in the front pews at church), and I even give to the church... On paper, at least, I have the exact same rights as you, and I’m just as much a part of this country. My kid deserves the exact same treatment as yours. My child has the right to their own "diversity"—honestly, I hate using that word in this context—just as much as your child does. And I really wonder how you'd react if someone tried to stop your kid from praying or tried to convince them that God is just some imaginary friend. Would you actually apply what you wrote to me to your own situation? Just something to think about...

Everything you just said is exactly why I would never let my child attend religious education classes.

😁Wait, what exactly are you trying to imply here?

Look, I was born right here in the States, my ancestors were born here, and my husband was born here too—honestly, do I even need to drop a massive family tree listing everyone who’s been living on this soil for the last 400 years, basically since we started keeping written records? How would you even want me to prove that? On top of all that, I live an honest life, paying my taxes and all those state levies like everyone else. Do you seriously need to see receipts for that, too? Because I’ve got no problem showing you if you're really that obsessed. 😉)

Look, your kid is going through the exact same thing mine is, so let's get that straight right off the bat. The only real difference here is that you’re out here trying to force your worldview down my throat—and my kid's too—as if I’m somehow the villain just because I won't play along with your little crusade to turn your child into some kind of martyr.
Look, I’m not out here trying to defend my kid just because they want to go after whatever they're into—I’m saying you're the one trying to stand in their way and strip that choice away from them.
Look, I’m not out here pointing fingers at your kid like they're some kind of criminal, you know? But then again, you're looking at mine like they’ve done nothing wrong. How does that even work?

Look, my kid doesn't sit there praying in class; they just learn about faith as a subject, and then we head to church if that's what we want to do. Honestly, if I were living in a place like Iran, my child would take an Islamic studies course if they felt like it, regardless of us being Catholic. I personally don't have any issues with that kind of thing, nor do these topics ever present a problem for me.

Honestly, he can let whoever wants to say whatever they want, it doesn't even phase me anymore. I’m just out here trying my hardest to teach him how to be smart enough to not stoop that low, you know? Because at the end of the day, what actually matters isn't the noise someone's making—it's about who's actually behind the words.
Honestly, it doesn't even matter how high your IQ is, what color you are, what you believe in, how much cash is sitting in your bank account, or what kind of designer threads you're rocking. At the end of the day, none of that stuff actually carries any weight, right? What really matters—the only thing that truly counts—is who you are as a human being and whether or not you're actually a decent friend when things get real.

Look, what I told you before really comes down to how I live my life, and honestly, I can’t stand fake people—you know, the ones who play nice to your face just to talk trash behind your back? It’s exhausting. If there’s an issue, we deal with it directly where it belongs, period. Keeping things private and then turning around and trashing everything on a forum like this just feels incredibly hypocritical to me. And think about it this way: if tomorrow the school board decided to scrap religious studies and swap it out for something that perfectly fits your worldview but totally clashes with mine, would I be the one causing a scene? Not a chance. Because of what I believe, I’m not about going out there and fighting for what your kid wants if it goes against my principles. My kid follows my lead. If he’s in the library during class, he’s doing exactly what I told him to do—whether that's grinding through homework, catching up on some required reading, or whatever else needs getting done. I'm not about that drama.
Look, if all this is getting under your skin, believe me, I’m not trying to lecture anyone or act like I’ve got some moral high ground here. It’s not like I expect everyone to live my life or adopt my personal values, right? But can we just try acting like actual adults for once? Can we stop with the constant theatrics and the whole "woe is me" victim mentality? If there’s an issue, why don't we just sit down and find a solution that works for everyone involved instead of blowing things up in a public forum? Why keep pointing fingers and blaming people for stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with them? At the end of the day, everything we do—every word we say and every action we take—is being mirrored by our kids, so shouldn't we be mindful of that?

Look, I signed my little girl up for Sunday school primarily because that’s what she wanted. She’s one of those kids who just wants to dive headfirst into everything—whether it's soccer practice or art classes—so if she says she wants to go, I'm following her lead. It isn't some grand statement I'm making, and it's definitely not me trying to be stubborn or prove some point to anyone, you know? It’s just about letting her follow her own interests.😉
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Jason Ortiz5 said:I'm not skimming the surface. You're just getting tangled up in your own words and rambling just to spin things in a religious direction. My kid is a girl, by the way, and I don't get why she's being denied anything or why I have to make a public statement about it. If you think I'm disagreeing with having religion in school, I've already made that clear plenty of times. But honestly, in this country, being a believer is almost trendy...

Setting up a separate class for kids who don't take religious studies sounds a lot like those segregated buses down in the Deep South.

It's pretty rude to suggest that parents "don't know how to guide their kids." The issue isn't about guidance. If anything, this lazy government should at least organize an actual alternative—like an elective course—instead of just telling kids to "figure out" how to kill an hour of time.

And when there's no real argument left, we always fall back on complaining about the minority having to adapt to the majority. Like I said—it's such a typical Christian thing to do. 😛

I'm not even religious enough to feel the need to spin things in my favor; if you had actually read what I wrote more carefully, like you claim to do, you'd realize that.😁

I’m not interested in you or your daughter; I’m interested in the topic. Whether it's a boy or a girl is totally irrelevant to me, sorry if that’s such a huge deal for your argument... also, sorry about the "separate classes for non-religious students" comment, let me rephrase it for you:
"separate classes for those who *do* take religion," if that makes you feel better... satisfied? Just please, spare me the lectures about segregation buses, because if you actually knew anything about history, you'd know that parental pressure fueled by nonsense like "why should my child do this" is exactly what led to those buses in the first place...

It is blatantly dishonest to sit here on this forum and claim that kids who don't attend religion class are just loitering in the halls, or that their teachers are threatening them with hell for being non-believers, or that they're being forced to pray before meals. It is completely unreasonable to expect twenty students and their parents to bend over backward for me, rather than me accommodating them... because if all these insinuations were actually true, people would be taking them straight to the principal, and that teacher would be out of a job instantly.

Nice excuse, but it doesn't hold water.😁, the whole foundation of our culture is that we adapt to the majority, not the other way around... When you visit another country, you don't expect everyone to speak English just because you do; you make an effort to learn the local language if you can. When you walk into someone else's house, you don't demand they cook your favorite meal; you either eat what everyone else is eating or you don't. When you grab coffee with someone who drinks black coffee, you don't send them to the store to find a specific creamer just because you like it; you either bring your own or you drink what they're drinking...😁
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
hiddenpuma3 said:Why on earth is that impossible?
The school administration handles the master schedule, so it is perfectly possible—and frankly, quite simple—to slot religion classes into a period where they won't disrupt the standard flow of academics, because at the end of the day, that's what the school is actually for.

Am I really supposed to worry about protecting a child's time both at home and at school just to ensure some bureaucratic teacher doesn't feel "unwanted"—which, let's be honest, is exactly what happens in a secular public institution?

We are talking about Christianity here—this isn't some debate about Hinduism. These people aren't causing trouble or running around the halls just because they don't share everyone else's worldview.
Bullseye.

Maybe try reading back through a few posts if you're having such a hard time wrapping your head around this... why on earth would it be impossible?

Look, your kid belongs to you, not the teacher.
And honestly, if you think it's the teacher's job to manage your child instead of yours, then I can only ask one question: why did you have the kid in the first place? My child is mine, period. Whether they are sitting at the kitchen table or sitting in a classroom, looking out for them is my responsibility, not the teacher's...

If you truly believe that teachers in public schools are just part of the establishment, then honey, just enroll your kid in private school. Or better yet, start your own academy and hire teachers who actually align with your values.😉

And let's be real—as long as everyone invokes God whenever they need a favor, as long as top government officials show up at Mass, and as long as the President's inauguration ends with "so help me God," then please, save the lectures about a secular state for someone who actually believes it.😉

If we actually lived up to those "Christian" values even half as much as we love throwing the word around, wouldn't those other twenty kids matter just as much as our own?☕
So let's not misuse a concept we clearly don't understand just to try and tear someone else down.☕
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Matthew Young35 said:And is it reasonable for me to expect a school—one my child is required to attend—to actually care for him and provide a proper curriculum, rather than tossing him into a corner to read a book or do homework just because they refuse to schedule elective courses at the beginning or end of the day?
As a parent, do I not have the right to demand that my child isn't sidelined just because he doesn't participate in an elective course?

It all feels like just another way to pressure more parents into enrolling their children in religious studies.

Look, I'm sorry, but your kid's education is being provided—the idea that they're being shoved into a corner, even if it feels that way😉...let's be real here, it's not the school's fault, it's not the people taking the religion class, and it's not the subject itself; it's actually the people who should be backing you up but won't, saying things like, "Oh, I don't want my kid in religion class," just to make life easier for the schools, the teachers, and the kids themselves...

As a parent, I totally get why you're wondering what your kid is doing during that time, or if someone is actually watching over them...
And man, if I could, I would love to help you out... but I honestly can't justify or defend "your" attacks when you're basically trying to deny the rest of the class something they actually want to do through your kid...
I mean, how are you any different from the people forcing religion class on everyone else?
Sorry, but I just don't get it.🤷

Can we please stop being so selfish and hypocritical for a second? Let's at least try to stop playing games when it comes to our own kids and actually find a solution... let's act like adults and just be honest when enrolling: "I don't want my child in religion class, but I also don't want gaps in their school day." If everyone who didn't want those classes in the curriculum just spoke up clearly, maybe the schools could actually organize a different group... instead, this creates this tension that gets passed down to the kids, and for what? Just because we parents are being hypocritical, because we don't know what we want, or because we refuse to just be... well, honest...

Personally, I believe in God, but I'm not some hardcore believer, and it doesn't play much of a role in my life regarding whether my kid grows up religious or an atheist, since that should be their choice based on their own values. What matters to me is that my kid learns as much as possible so that one day they aren't just adopting other people's views, but forming their own...
And if religion classes were abolished tomorrow by majority vote, fine, whatever, it's gone, and my kid can decide their own path then. But this current way of handling things? It's absolutely insane to me...
Sorry,
Are we really going to sink to the level of a first-grader here? Like, if I can't do it, then you can't either... if I don't want the ball, you don't get to demand it either.🤣 etc....
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Jason Ortiz5 said:I honestly find this whole religious logic thing just fascinating—you know, parents freaking out because their kids aren't following the script, instead of actually teaching them how to embrace diversity or be tolerant. It’s wild. They basically just project their own issues onto everyone else without a second thought.

I had a good laugh once when people tried to ban the Teletubbies just because one of them was a "threat" simply for carrying a purse. Honestly, I'm not even laughing anymore. In a country where you have guys like Mark leading a bunch of mindless followers, I really have to wonder what our future holds.

😁
you're building prejudices and judging others while barely even skimming the surface of what you claim to believe😉
so who’s really projecting onto whom here?😁

Just being real,
tell me, is it actually okay for my kid—and most kids in his position—to be deprived of something just because I have the nerve to say, "Hey, I don't want this"?

Are the kids attending religion class because they actually want to, or is it just because everyone else is going? And is it somehow my fault, or the fault of other parents who mention opting out just because it's the norm, that schools can't seem to figure out how to structure a classroom without these sessions?🤣
Do we really need to make such a massive scene just because I, as a parent, don't know how to tell my kid to spend that hour reading a novel or finishing some homework instead?

Is it seriously fair to expect twenty students and twenty sets of parents to bend everything to fit my specific preferences?

sorry, but if you ask me, the issue here isn't even about religion in schools; it’s more about how inconvenient the current setup is and people performing this little act just to look "progressive."
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hiddenpuma3 said:And why not just move religion class to the very first or very last period to avoid all this chaos with the kids?
Just a thought—for the sake of everyone else, which is what Christian values should be about, right?

Personally, I really think it’s totally doable for schools to set things up that way... though I honestly doubt teachers would even want to deal with a tiny group of two or three students during that specific hour when they could just head home or finally get some actual work done in peace... and look, I wouldn't even frame it as a "Christian vs. non-Christian" debate, I'm just looking at the pure logic of it here...
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James Alvarez2 said:Look, if you've got 25 kids in a class and 20 of them are hitting sports, music lessons, or language classes, parents have to figure it out, right?
It’s totally doable. A friend of mine goes to a school where religion class is always just the first or last period. Since everyone isn't starting and ending at the exact same second every single day, it works... you just need better organization.

For sure, I agree regarding classes without religion, just like there are classes with one or two languages or after-school programs.
But you've got some kids who do religion but skip the after-school stuff, and vice versa. It all comes down to priorities.
And the priority should be the kid standing in the hallway during mandatory classes, not the convenience of 22 parents who CHOSE to sign their kid up for an ELECTIVE.

Millie's issue is most obvious at Sunday Mass. You see a bunch of Millies sitting there with their legs crossed, chewing gum, whispering, and laughing.

And that whole crowd of Millies only exists because they're signed up for religion class just so they don't have to sit in the hallway.

If sports were a core part of the curriculum, and my kid wasn't enrolled in it while 20 other students were, well, I guess I'm the one who needs to adjust to the majority, right? I'm not "the majority" to me, sorry...
After-school care happens after the bell rings, so it really doesn't matter if a kid heads to the program an hour early or an hour late... If schools could actually form classes based on enough students whose parents have the guts to publicly say, "Hey, I don't want my kid in religion class," instead of just venting on internet forums, then those classes would exist.
No kid is just "standing in the hall" during religion class; the fact that they're bored is just proof of how we, as parents, are failing to raise them properly... Sorry, but those 45 minutes can be used incredibly well if parents stop passing their own drama down to their kids. Those 45 minutes can be spent reviewing lessons, reading literature, or getting homework done—that's 45 extra minutes of free time once they get home! So what's the big deal? Aside from us blowing things out of proportion because our egos are bruised since things aren't going our way... and the fact that religion class isn't "cool" anymore or whatever:

For the Millies who chew gum in church or cause scenes in the hallways, it's not the religion class's fault; it's the parents who taught them that behavior... So, as parents, we should probably start looking at our own flaws first, rather than pointing fingers at twenty other people who know exactly what they want and have the nerve to state their opinion publicly.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
I mean, seriously, what even is that? Is anyone actually going to try and defend this? It’s just wild to me how we can sit here and act like this makes any sense when it clearly doesn't. Does anyone else feel like they're living in some kind of weird fever dream where logic just went out the window entirely? Honestly, I'm just staring at this wondering if we've all collectively lost our minds or if someone is playing a massive prank on us. How do you even respond to something that's this ridiculous without just laughing in its face?
James Alvarez2 said:So you're saying an atheist should sit their kid down before school starts and basically prep them for the fallout? Like, tell them, "Hey, someone might try to scare you with hellfire, but don't sweat it—we don't believe that crap, and everyone's different..." Just a heads-up so they don't get blindsided...

It’s like someone who doesn't eat pork telling you that you're messing up and you're gonna end up in some hellhole just because you're grabbing a different burger today...

It’s not even about the kids. The real issue is the adults—the teachers and professors—and how they choose to push their faith on them...

That's exactly the point you're making... religion classes should be elective, plain and simple. That's how they ought to be handled.
Why does this have to happen right in the middle of class? Seriously... Why can't they just do it before or after school? Or even during a different shift? Makes zero sense...

Both sides just need to get on the same page here. For the kids actually taking religion class, they deserve to be around other kids who are there because their parents actually want them to be—kids raised with those same values. It makes more sense. And on the flip side, the kids who aren't doing religion shouldn't have to wander the halls or sit stuck in some library just because they're "the ones without that class"... it's stupid...

I’m gonna be a little rude here, but what’s even the point of Millie from 2nd grade being in religion class if she’s only there to just show up...
She’s learning stuff at school that she never hears about at home. Doesn't go to church because her parents don't bother with it either. The Catholic curriculum in elementary school shouldn't be some massive mashup of every other religion just so they can claim "everyone knows a little bit about everything." She's being taught about this God, but at home, they tell her that's just not how it works. They say God couldn't have made the Earth in a few days, that He couldn't part the sea, or that it's totally unfair how the father was happy when the prodigal son came home... meanwhile, at home, they had a son who spent his entire life just bowing down to his old man. Now all she hears about is Heaven and Hell, like those are the only destinations based on whether you believe or not...
He’ll show up for communion, hit the confirmation, and skip every single Sunday service in between because why bother? Then he’ll just walk down that aisle and get married in a church anyway...
So Millie’s gonna send little Peter to religious ed too. Just because the neighbors are breathing down her neck about it... He’ll get all his sacraments done and whatever, but she isn't showing up to church with him. Her own old man never even bothered going with her...
The 2041 census shows both Millie and Peter declaring themselves believers. Why?

Religious studies as an elective? Sure, why not.
Let the kids who actually want to go attend, even if their parents happen to be believers. Great.
If it’s not their thing, they can opt out. They’ll have plenty of time to figure it all out in 10, 15, or 20 years when they start seeing things differently anyway.
Kids from religious families will have plenty of time to realize it’s not for them too.

How am I being "inconsistent" just because I tell my kid that faith is a personal choice? Just like how Peter chose to be an atheist, or how Anna's mom does yoga.
We all practice our own free choices during our own time.
I don't see hypocrisy or inconsistency here. I just see a parent explaining to their kid why it's cool for their buddy in class to be in the lesson straight through, instead of having some random period where everyone's just hanging out and causing trouble—which would just lead to complaints from the parents of the kids who *do* attend.

There's this beautiful Quote: Speak about Christ only when asked, but live in such a way that people ask you about Christ.
Swap "Christ" for "Faith" and you've got it.
That’s basically my guiding principle most of the time.

And that’s the whole basis for making religious studies an elective. People keep harping on about "forcing" religion out of schools.
As long as you, as a believer, raise your child in the faith and teach them how to treat their peers, then religious studies belongs in school. Your kid might say a prayer before a meal—quietly, to themselves. Maybe nobody notices, maybe a classmate asks why. Maybe when talking about "how I spent my winter break," they mention traditions from home or church. Maybe you show them a cool book or a board game. A kid can weave their faith into so many other parts of life that don't need to be labeled "Religion Class," whether it's third period on Tuesday morning or second period on Friday afternoon.

Look, I honestly feel like anyone who actually walks the walk—you know, people who genuinely live their lives according to the values they preach to the world—is going to raise their kids with that exact same backbone. They’ll instill that sense of integrity from day one, right? And once that’s set in, none of that outside noise or the endless drama from people trying to tear them down is even going to register. Why would it matter what some random critic says when you've built a life on something real?

If I'm reading the situation right, we've got one religious studies teacher handling the whole elementary block from first through fourth grade. So, we need to figure out how to make this schedule actually work, especially since they need to hit two sessions a week, even though we’re looking at a standard five-day school week. How are we supposed to squeeze that all in without making everyone lose their minds? 🤷
So, regarding that whole situation with religious studies being held during the afternoon session—it seems like you’re totally fine with the idea of twenty-two kids showing up late in the day just for that? Is it really that simple for you? I mean, are we just supposed to ignore the fact that twenty-two different sets of parents now have to play Tetris with their schedules to figure out how to coordinate those two specific days with everything else they have going on? And don't even get me started on the logistics of trying to make sure those two students from the class aren't just wandering around the school library while everyone else is in class? It feels like a massive headache waiting to happen, doesn't it?🤔Come on, man, you really might want to give that some actual thought before you jump the gun.😁
On top of all that mess, most of these kids are signed up for religion classes, which pretty much tells you everything you need to know about their parents, right? It’s either they’re actually devout, or they’re just putting on this massive act to look like "good people" in the eyes of the community. I mean, why even bother asking them? If people were actually brave enough to drop the fake internet personas and speak their minds under their own names, schools could finally just set up one specific classroom for the kids who don't want to deal with that stuff. They could just build a schedule around it and call it a day, wouldn't they?

I mean, what is even the deal with Millie from class 2.C? Honestly, you should probably just go straight to her parents with those questions. Look, I have zero interest in weighing in on whether parents decide to enroll their kids in religious studies or not—that’s their call, their reasons, and their life entirely. Purely from a human standpoint, I can listen to the explanations and I can certainly have my own opinions on the whole thing, but I really don't want to be out here judging. Isn't it obvious that we're all grown adults with fully formed personalities at this point, so why would anyone feel the need to start second-guessing how everyone else lives their lives?
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
James Alvarez2 said:There is zero chance you can show a kid at home what they'll be doing in sports, drama, language, or religion class. Not because I think you don't know how to grab a ball or play an English song, but because it depends entirely on who is teaching and how they teach.

Like, someone mentioned their kid was told non-believers go to hell or that they had to pray before meals. What?

That teacher should be teaching kids that we're all different. Just like some people play tennis, others take Chinese, and others take religion—some people pray, some kneel, some won't eat when the sun is out, some wear specific clothes...

Religion class should be about teaching that only God decides the final judgment, and it's not our job to tell anyone where they're going after they die.
The problem is just that not everyone does that.
I even know a guy who graduated from a major university and doesn't believe in evolution. He doesn't accept it as a valid theory at all. And that is definitely NOT what they teach at a major university.

That's why religious studies should be moved outside of schools, and then we can do a massive purge of the professors. Then maybe we can move forward.

Are you actually raising your kid to just swallow everything anyone tells them and build their entire worldview on it? Or are you teaching them to listen to everything, process it, and then decide for themselves what fits their life and what they can just ignore?

Sorry, but if I'm being totally blunt, it feels pretty pointless to vent about what someone said and how our kids took it, especially when you immediately pivot to talking about diversity... because look, if we're teaching our kids at home that everyone is different and that every single person has inherent value regardless of what they believe in, then that kid isn't going to see "non-believers go to hell" or "pray before eating" as a personal attack; they'll just see it as someone else's way of life...
Which basically means the fault doesn't lie with the people saying those things—they're just living their truth and sharing their faith—it lies with us for being so inconsistent with the values we claim to teach our children.

Religious ed isn't mandatory in American schools; we all have the choice whether to enroll our kids or not, and that's where our diversity is respected. Trying to purge it from the system completely just undermines everything we say about embracing differences, and honestly, that says a lot more about us than it does about the people preaching about hell or pre-meal prayers.😉

@Karen Richardson3, please don't 😉,