Posts by rustybison462

Anyone else feeling totally wiped out from taking Sumamed? I’m on day 4 of my course and still have two more days left to go. But man, I am exhausted. Just completely drained.

rowdypanther12 said:Sorry, do you realize that neither I nor monstera are actually talking about grades?
We couldn't care less about grades.
Our focus is on the quality of this learning method, which looks great on paper but is a disaster in practice—or at best, entirely dependent on the level of support and resources a kid has available to them.

Fine, I get that, but reading through the previous pages, it feels like everyone's just blaming the teachers, even though they aren't the ones who implemented the reform.

Susan James said:When kids are assigned research tasks that require them to dive into the online world, it’s actually the perfect "teachable moment" to talk about digital responsibility. Instead of just letting them loose on Google, I like to think of it as teaching them how to be smart investigators rather than just passive readers. One thing I've found helpful is treating them like junior journalists. When they find a piece of information, I ask them, "How do you know this is true?" or "Who wrote this?" It turns a simple search into a bit of a detective game. It helps them understand that not everything they see on a screen is a fact, which is such a vital skill to have these days. I also try to emphasize the importance of citing their sources early on. I remember when my own kids were starting school projects; they used to just copy and paste everything without a second thought. Now, we talk about giving credit where it's due, almost like how an author would credit a researcher. It builds that sense of integrity from a young age. It’s all about guiding them to navigate the web with a bit of skepticism and a lot of curiosity. If we frame it as gaining a superpower—the power to find the truth—they tend to engage with it much more positively! Just hanging out at home. 🤔

I’ve always believed that nothing beats hands-on experience when it comes to actually learning something. You can read all the manuals you want, but you don't truly get it until you roll up your sleeves and dive in. It reminds me of when I first tried to fix a leaky sink in my kitchen; no amount of YouTube tutorials could prepare me for how tricky those pipes actually were! Real-world application is where the magic happens.
But honestly, you can't just jump into that without a ton of groundwork. It takes a lot more preparation than people realize—you have to look at the environment, the specific circumstances, and most importantly, the child's own unique traits. It’s not just about their cognitive skills or what they already know; a huge factor is whether they actually show a genuine interest in the subject they're exploring on their own. If the spark isn't there, all the prep in the world won't make it stick.

I just want to echo a point made in that book about the Swedish education model: in a system like that, the kids who really thrive are the ones who have extra resources waiting for them outside the classroom—usually through their parents. It doesn’t always mean parents are sitting there helping with specific homework assignments (though that's how most people see it). To me, the real secret sauce is the indirect support. It’s the stuff that happens years before they even step foot in kindergarten and continues long after they graduate. I'm talking about things like reading picture books together, weekend trips to the museum, or catching a show at the local theater. That foundation makes all the difference.
If you want a kid to sit still for an hour, totally absorbed in a tablet or a good encyclopedia, someone really has to spark that initial curiosity. It doesn’t just happen by magic. If they didn't have a teacher who was genuinely pumped about the subject matter—or if the teacher was just going through the motions—it's a tough sell. Plus, if the child isn't already naturally curious about that specific topic, getting them to dive into independent research is an uphill battle. I remember when my nephew was little; unless we found a way to make the subject feel like a game, he’d lose interest in five minutes flat. Without that early nudge or a passionate mentor, it’s hard for them to find that joy in exploring things on their own.
I really feel like professors need to be more intuitive. If they see that kids just aren't vibing with a particular topic, they should have the sense to pivot. Instead of forcing a failing research project just to check a box for some academic advisor, why not try a different approach? It’s frustrating when instructors just write off an entire generation as "lazy" or "uninterested" when, in reality, the method itself just isn't working. From what I can see, that seems to be the go-to excuse far too often.

Go ahead and tell all that to the guidance counselor or the department head and see how much "support" you get.

Generally, I don't overdo it with those kinds of assignments because I know they don't work the way the higher-ups imagine. I try to simplify them as much as possible so the kids can actually finish them on their own.

Then again, these assignments have to exist because I have a whole grade category dedicated to them, so I need something to grade.

And yeah, kids are lazy. They are. Both kids and parents want good grades without putting in the sweat equity; they really do. Of course, there are exceptions. If you don't like hearing that, that's not my problem.

I haven't yet encountered a student who put in the effort, asked questions, submitted their work early for feedback, and followed instructions, only to end up with less than an A. But those aren't the students who sit around waiting for everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. Those are the ones who try to figure it out themselves first and only ask questions when they're truly stuck. Those are the kids with actual study habits who understand that good grades require work, effort, and knowledge. Their parents know it too.

People need to realize that grades from 1 to 5 exist for a reason, and not everyone needs to pull an A. Not everyone is built for everything.

rowdypanther12 said:Great. 😂
What's the actual point of having a teacher then? Just to check if a kid memorized some facts? We might as well just switch to all online testing and save money on salaries.

If a student handles a minor assignment that way once or twice a semester, what's the big deal?

Or look, if we actually cover the material first, then give them a project to expand on what they learned—that's just part of the process.

Susan James said:It's actually quite alarming how many adults today struggle to find reliable information or lack the critical thinking skills to filter through what they find. If they did know how, we wouldn't see such a massive rise in conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers (but that's a whole different conversation, though it's the main focus of the book I linked).

What's also troubling is seeing adults demand from their children the exact same thing they themselves struggle with—trying to sift through the endless flood of digital content and noise.

I'm not saying all information should only come from old-school encyclopedias, but I do believe that when kids are researching online, they need expert guidance and adult supervision.
Back in the day, around 2007 🤔, the standard advice was to supervise kids online and keep the family computer in the living room to keep things transparent. Smartphones changed all that. Now, instead of that caution, some experts have started giving much bolder instructions: telling kids to use the internet more frequently and more intensely for educational purposes 🙏
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Computer science wasn't even part of the standard curriculum back when the current middle schoolers were starting out.
The kids currently in 5th through 8th grade didn't have those classes early on.
The high schoolers today had it as an elective during their middle school years, provided the schools had the staffing and scheduling to offer it.
To be clear, I don't think "internet research" should be its own standalone subject in a computer lab. I'm totally fine with students using computers during regular class time—once they've mastered the core concepts—to dig deeper into a topic under a teacher's watchful eye.
But letting them wander aimlessly through Wikipedia on their own? 🙄🤦
(Honestly, I bet even Banozic used Wikipedia while working on his doctorate 😬, which means kids today might follow a teacher's blunt advice to hunt through digital rabbit holes, essentially modeling the behavior of highly educated professionals who accidentally include flawed data in their dissertations.
)
Before you start throwing pedagogical shade at kids for being "lazy" or "incapable," maybe try teaching them something useful or at least take responsibility for the way you're instructing them.
In my experience, all the effort spent writing guides (and even being extra direct about them) doesn't mean a thing if the assignment isn't age-appropriate or if the material hasn't even been covered in class yet.

Look, it doesn't even matter if they start computer science classes in 5th grade. They’re still going to end up knowing way less than the generations that actually sat through those same classes back in the day.

It’s not my job to teach a kid how to drag an image into a PowerPoint slide, resize a font, or pick out a typeface. That isn't what I'm here for. If the end result isn't happening, then the system itself is broken. Something is fundamentally misaligned.

Look, at the end of the day, I didn't have computer science classes. My teacher couldn't have cared less that I didn't even own a computer at home. I had to teach myself how to actually put a picture into PowerPoint. I sat there for hours and hours in front of a screen until I finally figured out how to use the damn thing. But my parents? They didn't run to the school to complain, and they certainly didn't spend their time whining about it on internet forums.

It’s not really a big deal if a kid just needs to have a finger shifted back into place.
If you ask me, this is a step in the wrong direction. Instead of actually improving our school system, we're just watching it go downhill.

rowdypanther12 said:I'm not talking about failing to explain an assignment; I'm talking about the actual COURSE MATERIAL. 😁
Students should study the material themselves, learn it, and then complete a project (where they get specific guidelines on *how* to build it, like "use six slides with this layout"). Then, they present what they've mastered to the class. 😁

I don't see an issue here either. At most, the teacher just highlights the core concepts and mentions what they intend to cover on the test, and that's that.

Michelle Nelson4 said:Yet another installment in the "kids these days are just incompetent/clueless/useless" saga...

☕

No, they aren't stupid. It's just that parents and everyone else in their lives are basically raising them to be helpless.

I remember one teacher once told me, "Look, I'm only stuck with these kids for four years, but their parents are going to be dealing with them for the rest of their lives," so honestly, good luck to them.

rowdypanther12 said:You guys are talking about grades, but I’m actually referring to how we pass the entire learning process down to our kids

Look, I'm telling you straight: I couldn't handle things that way, and frankly, I shouldn't have to. Sure, you need to explain stuff, but there has to be a limit. Nowadays, those boundaries just don't exist anymore.

When I was in school, did a teacher ever hand me an assignment and then offer to help me out at any random hour of the day or night? Not once. And don't get me started on all those "detailed instructions" and other nonsense. You got a task, you did it, and you figured it out yourself. You brought it to class, they gave you a grade—whatever that grade was—and they didn't even bother explaining why you got it. If I wasn't happy with my mark, I just told myself, "Alright, I guess I need to try harder next time," and that was that.

What really trips me out is your claim that a modern teacher can't afford to explain things because if they explain too much, people end up acting like they're doing a bad job.

rowdypanther12 said:If I had two kids going through the same school system—one before the reforms and one after—I could actually tell you if the teaching quality has dropped or if it’s just business as usual.
As it stands, I have no way of knowing if teachers were already just surfing the web for an hour while students taught themselves from a textbook, or if this "project-based learning" is a new trend they think is cool when, in reality, they used to actually lecture and explain things properly.

It honestly baffles me that there are teachers out there who just hand out an assignment and then completely check out. Honestly, good for them if they managed to land a job at a school with parents like these.

Me? No. I have to provide hyper-detailed instructions. I basically have to end every single prompt with a bolded note saying they can contact me any time of the day or night if they’re confused or need help. The deadline has to be practically infinite, and I have to offer two separate windows for submission. Only if they fail to turn in anything whatsoever by the second deadline am I allowed to give them a failing grade. Oh, and I almost forgot—I also have to offer them the chance that if they submit by the first deadline, I’ll review it, suggest a grade, list what needs fixing for a better score, and then they have until the next deadline to fix it. Those who wait until the second deadline don't get that luxury.

And even after I go through all that ridiculousness, I'm still certain I won't escape the constant nagging from parents, homeroom teachers, principals, and the administration.

Unfortunately, most students are so lazy that even this level of hand-holding doesn't help them get decent grades. They act like such "know-it-alls," yet they message me constantly because they can't find anything on Google or don't know how to talk to anyone.

It really is terrible. In this age of the internet, it's insane how many kids genuinely don't know how to search for things or even use PowerPoint—even though they've been taking computer classes since elementary school.

Michelle Nelson4 said:And what happened back when they were all stuck using those old mimeograph machines, layering sheet after sheet of stencil paper just to copy stuff into notebooks? Was that somehow considered better or more efficient by everyone?
At the end of the day, a bad teacher is a bad teacher, regardless of which curriculum or teaching method they’re following.

If you ask me, the recent educational reforms have actually managed to weed out some of the nonsense people used to push, though I definitely think there's still plenty of room for improvement.

Now, my daughter hasn't really had any issues—she doesn't complain about anything—but we did deal with a bit of chaos regarding her math teacher swaps once or twice. Luckily, I was able to smooth things over without much trouble. That said, at her age, she really ought to be putting in five times the effort I am! Besides, I know plenty of other parents who vent constantly about teachers I’ve never even heard of. So... I suppose it all depends on your perspective.

Nowadays, teachers can barely bother with the old-school methods because our kids are basically illiterate. They struggle with basic reading and writing. Making them transcribe things from a board is a huge uphill battle.

Back in the era of overhead projectors, I don't recall it being this bad. It's obvious people actually learned how to learn back then.