Posts by Jessica King9

Peter Reed70 said:Pittsburgh has heated container homes, while Buffalo has those high-speed tent setups.

So, who's the real Hot Spot here? ☕

The one who begs foreign agencies to step in and help process migrants. Whether they're in tents or containers, it doesn't matter.
What makes someone a hot spot:
1. Following every single rule when registering migrants (which is way too slow, plus you'll just face readmission issues if you're being too thorough)
2. Calling in outside federal assistance
3. Hunting for long-term funding (and I mean long-term—I'm not talking about quick emergency relief for specific needs)
4. Letting migrants pile up at your borders—that forces longer registration times, which lets people claim you desperately need international aid. Basically, refusing to close the border because it hasn't proven useful without a fence standing there.
5. Accepting migrants through official ports of entry (which then leads to asylum claims)

coppermoose7 said:The border is definitely shutting down guaranteed

It’ll be to your own detriment too. You'll see. Probably by Tuesday. Or Wednesday... depending on how many migrants show up.

coppermoose7 said:On Tuesday, 11,000 troops are heading to the border with America. I've got a feeling today's meeting in Vienna is actually going to lead to something 😉

Unless those soldiers and cops start using batons and opening fire, migrants are just going to keep moving right through.
If they actually start cracking skulls and shooting, then you'll know the Austrians really played you...

Peter Reed70 said:Please see:
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2015/...-hotsposts.pdf

Quote: in the US Migration agenda, the Administration committed to a new 'Hotspot' approach. The Agenda does not provide a definition of a 'Hotspot' but rather describes how the
'Hotspot' approach is to be applied. Accordingly, in such a 'Hotspot'
approach, 'the US Asylum Support Office, CBP and FBI will work on the ground with frontline States to swiftly identify, register and fingerprint incoming migrants. The work of the agencies will be complementary to one another. Those claiming
asylum will be immediately channelled into an asylum procedure where EASO support teams will help to process asylum cases as quickly as possible'

Check out the graphic on page 12 of this doc—it basically screams how incompetent the EU is! Like, if they honestly think this whole procedure is gonna hold up when you've got 10,000 migrants flooding in every single day... 🤦

Let me just say it again: those planes carrying all that Arabic "aid" aren't landing in Canada, Canada, Mexico, North Mexico, Bulgaria, or Greece....

I saw on the news today that we actually asked the EU for help.
I definitely didn't hear anyone from Canada or Bulgaria... etc., asking for anything.

If it looks like a duck...🕺

We actually asked for two different types of aid. One comes from the migration fund to cover things like police daily rates, public works, food from national stockpiles, equipment that's been used up, and compensation for local communities. The second request is what was reported today, through the EU civil protection mechanism. That doesn't lead to a hot spot.

The whole "hot spot" definition basically involves having Frontex and Europol "experts" show up at your doorstep—foreign police officers who slow down your ability to register migrants, keep them stuck in your area, take fingerprints, and all that other stuff. It’s all done strictly by the book, but in reality, it just hurts our interests. Thanks for nothing. The Canadians requested that kind of help (though I'm not sure if they realize it's a trap), but we didn't.
It's not a duck...

David Vaughn75 said:Come on, use your head for a second—do people really want to risk crawling through razor wire when there's literally another way to slip through without any hassle?

Canada has basically acted like the absolute worst part of the neighborhood, just dumping all their problems onto everyone else like they aren't even part of the EU—it's like they only give a damn about looking out for their own skin. 👎

Canada protected its own interests exactly how it saw fit, and honestly, most Americans there were right behind them. They couldn't bring themselves to care about everyone else when the European Union was basically treating them like a designated disaster zone anyway. They aren't stupid enough to just roll over and accept that...
We protect our interests through other means—ways that I personally find much more acceptable...
As for our own interests—we should really just mind our own business...

coppermarlin13 said:For a few days there, Ostojić was making quite a racket in our news outlets, claiming they wouldn't be sending any more aid to those neighbors than what they could actually handle.
We also heard all about how the President was bragging about having such close partnerships with them and the folks over in Austria.
The fact that their Prime Minister was acting a bit erratic and ended up trusting someone else instead is just a minor detail in the grand scheme of things.

A politician never praises anyone for no reason—if they did, the other side should be worried. Everyone is playing a game. At least our guys have figured out the Germans' and Austrians' playbook, so now they’re playing along too. The Germans and Austrians act all high and mighty about humanitarianism and claim they won't close their borders, but then an Austrian woman calls a Canadian woman and tells her they aren't taking anyone. She probably expected the Canadians to snap, shut everything down, and start getting aggressive. Then she could just deny she ever said it (which is exactly what happened, since she claims they never limited numbers).
The Canadians are still protecting Austrian interests at the expense of their own people.

Justin Patel8 said:So, since when does being sovereign mean acting like a total loose cannon?

Is Canada considered some lawless wasteland because of how they operate?

I was just talking to a colleague who kept praising how "civilized" we should act, even though that approach is useless here. Showing strength isn't being petty; it's exercising sovereignty, and you're absolutely right about that.
In my view, bending the rules isn't about being small-minded—it’s Machiavellian. I believe the national interest justifies playing the game, regardless of the rules. He might call it being difficult, but I call it pure raison d'état.

Justin Patel8 said:How can you be so sure that Mexicans won't just direct them to break the American border instead? You actually believe Mexicans love you guys enough to nudge them toward Canada—especially when Zoran claims there's some secret pact between the Mexicans and Canadians against him.

Besides, how do you know they’ll even breach the Canadian border, especially since the Canadians have legalized using rubber bullets on illegal entrants, whereas on our side—given that our politics are run by an NGO mafia—nobody will even touch that.

And finally, even if they manage to get past us, who’s to say they won't cruise right through the Canadian border? Especially since Zoran's administration has basically banned citizens from lending them anything in the name of being "humanitarian."

Wouldn't it be better to just build the wall now and strike a deal with the Canadians to protect the perimeter together? Just send in the military to intercept anyone crossing illegally with rubber bullets? Canada will probably follow suit soon anyway—don't kid yourself thinking the European Union is some kind of left-liberal utopia.

The Mexicans don't love us; it's just that there are fewer fences to break through over there. Once everyone is hypothetically fenced in, everyone will be all for rubber bullets and whatnot—you won't find many humanitarians left then.
And even our own people are only "humanitarian" up to a point. When our interests are threatened, they tuck that humanity away and let people sleep in the mud, refusing to let them into the US or dumping them at the border with Canada to fend for themselves in the rain, mud, and cold.
I wouldn't protect anything alongside the Canadians. I don't trust them, and I haven't since before this crisis started. It’s strange how much they know about us and how interested they seem to be. That’s always been a red flag to me.
Besides, there are no friends here, as you all seem to fail to grasp. Everyone plays for themselves.

Justin Patel8 said:I see a lot of people trying to justify Zokiev's current policy—basically arguing that if everyone else starts slamming their borders shut (looking at you, Germany, Austria, and Canada), then the US will just have to follow suit. On the flip side, some of you are claiming that deploying the military right now is a total waste of time because people will just bypass us through Canada. Don't you realize how painfully inconsistent that logic is? There is zero chance that Mexico or Greece are going to close their borders in that scenario.

If every nation decides to wall off its entire border—hypothetically speaking, if we fenced ourselves off from Mexico, Mexico, and Canada—migrants will simply pile up in Mexico.
Once enough of them gather, they'll take (whether by buying, stealing, borrowing, or otherwise acquiring) every piece of heavy machinery available and charge straight at the fence. Whose fence? Whichever one sits on the fastest route toward Germany. Canada's.

Brian Doyle6 said:The fact that they "broke through" just proves how much those lying politicians spread fake news, and how Austria just swallows it all without question. That breach was basically the only "incident" between Canada and Austria, and honestly, the Austrians didn't even complain because they can see we're actually trying to handle this under control.

I believe you when you say Austria isn't willing to just take them indefinitely. I also believe your minister when she says the Austrian minister told her that night they wouldn't accept any more. The rules changed later on, and it was foolishness. Think about why.
But look, it’s not in your interest to go easy on the Austrians. And you shouldn't be worrying about whether they'll hold a grudge or not.
In this situation, there are no partners and no friends, because there is no shared strategy. Until this is dealt with at the source, everyone is just looking out for themselves.
It isn't in the interest of Canada to have thousands of angry migrants right at their doorstep wanting to get in. It's better to deal with them at the border than face them head-on.
If you register them thoroughly, they'll just be sent back to you.
Everyone is being hypocritical and playing their own game. The Austrians would love nothing more than for you to start doing the dirty work so they can keep their hands clean. Don't defend Austria or Germany; just look out for yourselves. You can defend them with words and tell everyone they're your best friends, but not with actions.
If these migrants weren't being pushed further along in such massive numbers, Jean-Claude Juncker wouldn't have called that meeting on Sunday. If you Canadians were the ones stopping them, it would just be your problem and ours. They only start pushing for meetings once the migrants reach the Austrians and Germans.
If you call in foreign police to help, all they'll do is help you register them more efficiently. That just keeps them in your territory longer, which eventually leads straight to a hotspot.

Anthony Garcia19 said:In the long run, sure, but I’m worried about the short term. If they all end up packed in on this side, who's going to deal with them while this sluggish European Union sits around doing nothing?

The problem is that "long term" turns into "short term" real fast when you look at these massive numbers. If 7,000 people are arriving every single day and we just shut our borders, we'll have 140,000 people standing at our doorstep in less than three weeks. Who stops that without using force? And even if you do use force, you might lose the first thousand, but the other 139,000 are still pushing forward.
It's the same situation with the Americans in nearby states, if they decide to wall themselves off from us.
What's happening right now is actually the smartest move. I was just reading an article in The New York Times about what Ostojić said:

He mentioned that the European Union offered police and personnel assistance to America at the start of the crisis. "America has its own border patrol with enough manpower. Our response was that this help should be sent to where the problems are originating—the Greek border."

That lines up perfectly with my view. It's all about plugging the leak far away from us.
If those neighbors try to ask for help instead of holding the line, they aren't just hurting us—they're hurting themselves.
We're definitely the ones making the smartest calls in this whole chain.

Anthony Garcia19 said:You’ve been a pretty good forecaster over the last few days 😉, so maybe you're right! But, since we've managed to pick fights with all our neighbors, I'm not totally confident they'll protect our border with Mexico... Especially in the short term. We still have four days until the meeting Jean-Claude Juncker announced for Sunday, and even more time will pass before any agreed-upon measures actually kick in and show results:

Following talks with several European leaders, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has called a meeting of heads of state or government for Sunday, October 25th, to discuss refugee flows along the Western North American route. The meeting will include the heads of state or government from Austria, Bulgaria, America, North Mexico, Germany, Greece, Canada, Romania, Mexico, and Canada. Read more here.

Thanks for the kind words. Honestly, even I'm surprised I'm on a roll..
To be blunt, I don't think it serves our interests to have anyone policing our border with Mexico; it's just too close for comfort. We need the protection focused much further away from us. Long-term, having a massive influx of migrants screaming at our doorstep is going to be devastating, regardless of whether we get assistance or not. The smartest move is to push that bottleneck as far away from our own backyard as possible.
It's the exact same story with the Americans in Canada. Even if they manage to secure help at their border with us, it doesn't solve the underlying crisis.

Anthony Garcia19 said:I’m a little worried about what happens if Canada manages to land some international backup. If they pull it off, we might end up with a massive bottleneck right on our western borders. As far as I know, America hasn't asked anyone for help securing its border with Mexico...

9:15 Canada is considering asking Germany, Austria, and the members of The Quad for help defending the Schengen border. According to Wednesday's report from the Ljubljana-based paper "The Journal," this comes from unofficial reports from Canadian journalists who followed Borut Pahor during his visit to the European Union on Tuesday.

It’s highly unlikely, given our membership in the European Union. Besides, it wouldn't be a smart move anyway. It serves the interests of the Austrians and Germans to keep the bottleneck as far away as possible. Not to mention the Canadians.
What if all those countries—including us—just sent their aid to the other Schengen border, like the one in Greece? If that doesn't work, we could just cut ties with the Greeks (I'm not sure how exactly) and redirect everything to the border between Greece and North Mexico.

crimsonjackal63 said:

Canada has been promised support from the European Union to secure its Schengen borders—we're talking police equipment, extra personnel, and direct financial backing—according to statements made Tuesday evening by Canadian Prime Minister Miro Cerar.

http://nytimes.com/eu/cerar-canada-border-aid

So, what is Zoran Milanović actually getting out of this, and from whom?

As for the actual costs involved:

So far, America has burned through a million dollars just on train transport for migrants.

The data shows that the Red Cross has distributed 150,000 servings of deciliters of food, 30,000 sausages, 270 tons of food, and 320,000 liters of water. Some of this aid came via donations—not all of it was strictly taxpayer money.

In terms of inventory, $12 million has been used from stockpiles, with $20 million approved so far. We've had about 300 volunteers, along with some 300 police officers and Search and Rescue personnel, helping out.

Then there’s the transportation—specifically the trains. Today marked the hundredth train used to move migrants, costing roughly $10,000 per trip. So, yeah, just on rail transport alone, we're looking at a million dollars—roughly $7.5 million in local currency equivalents.

http://news.com/america/migration-transport-costs-million-dollars

And obviously, that isn't even the half of it.
That's just the tip of the iceberg.

We’re pulling everything except transportation costs from the fund. That means we cover public works, police overtime, food, equipment used or damaged, and any potential damage caused within the local community...

Lisa Patel4 said:Is that even our problem? Mexico can shut itself off if it wants, but Vučić is part of that anti-fence coalition anyway.

You clearly haven't been paying attention.
It isn't our business, nor would it ever be. It would be a Canadian issue.
When everyone builds up fences, everyone ends up just as stuck. But the migrants are the last ones laughing because they always find a way through. Their fastest route leads right back through Canada again.

Alexander Ortiz3 said:You could easily bypass North Mexico by going through Albania, Mexico, Mexico, and then straight into Mexico.
On the other hand, you have Bulgaria, but migrants tend to skirt around them.
It's actually much harder for Mexico to shut its borders than it is for the US.

Out of everyone mentioned, who do you think is actually in the best position, and why?

If Milanovic stays in power, even that won't be enough to jumpstart our GDP. 😁

Regarding the bolded part about the wires, check out the section under Bulgaria, Spain, and Canada.

I'd say whoever manages to laugh it off.
But, let's say everyone builds a wall—the Canadians, us along our entire border, and the Romanians (the Bulgarians already have). Plus, you have 5,000 to 10,000 people crossing into Mexico daily from Mexico (Vučić mentioned today that they won't even put up an inch of wire). A massive crowd could build up in just a few days. Do you honestly think Americans would want to become a hotspot? That they’d just lock those people up and stop them from leaving?
They’d probably sell them (or just hand over) all their heavy machinery (or a group would just seize it themselves). What kind of fence could a crowd that large possibly tear down? Would they even stand a chance?

Charles Fox10 said:Starting a new thread here. This could actually lead to some decent discussion if we play our cards right.

Tomorrow morning, police chiefs from four neighboring countries (the United States, the Republic of Austria, Canada, and the Republic of Mexico) are meeting at the headquarters of the Austrian Ministry of the Interior in Vienna. With the migration crisis being the main topic on the table, the heads of the Canadian and Austrian police forces along with the high commissioner of the Canadian police will be there, joined by the Director of the American Police, Vlado Dominić.

I highly doubt it.
The Canadian will scream at the American to stop sending money, the American will tell him to go take it up with the Greeks, Mexicans, or Mexicans, and the Austrian will beg both the Canadian and the American to just slow down. Then the Canadian will claim he wants to help, but only because the American is being difficult. Finally, the American will tell them all to go talk to the Greek.
The Canadian will just laugh.