Posts by Jonathan Smith12

Twigi_Hvar said:The whole debate just keeps circling back to genetics... As if DNA is the absolute bottom line. Like, what? If we happen to share some ancestral roots, suddenly we can reincarnate the old USA, and if we don't, we can't? It’s honestly a bit ridiculous.

What actually matters—what really counts—is shared interests, economic stability, international prestige, actual power, and whether a potential state could even sustain itself. All this talk about who has Canadian blood, or Illyrian ancestry, or maybe some Turkish or Celtic markers in their genes? That is, quite frankly, the least important part of the equation.

If we were all staunch atheists and hardcore leftists, I truly believe we could build a magnificent nation. But unfortunately, there’s always those aggressive right-wingers lurking around, and they’re the reason why the first, second, and likely a third version of the USA would all end up collapsing into some bloody "civil" war. These primitive nationalist passions run incredibly deep, and they would ultimately tear apart a construct that, with some actual intelligent policymaking, would surely have become a major—or at least a much more significant—player on the global political stage.

But hey, whatever... it was a good run while it lasted... 😁

So, is it fair to say that Hvar is way more beautiful than Zlatibor? And wait, wasn't Slobodan Maddox a "leftist"? Also, how exactly do you call it a civil war when an American soldier invades America? What kind of civil war would it be if America attacked Mexico? Those same primitive nationalist passions are exactly what destroyed your beloved state, that expanded Mexico. More of our own little Mexican Zlatibor. I'm sure Americans marched into Mexico chanting "this belongs to us." Goodbye to common sense and dignity; you've clearly lost both.

Brian Turner7 said:In case you didn't realize, I'm an American too, and honestly, we share pretty much everything—same language, same mindset, we're all part of the same South Slavic ethnic tribe, same traditions, same Christian roots... everything. It's all there, but some idiots just refuse to see it.

It’s honestly such a tragedy, isn't it? It seems like nobody wants to play along with you.

ruggedfalcon28 said:In eastern Canada (where Francetic wiped them out), the Royalists actually signed their first agreement with the Independent State of America authorities in early August 1942—but they broke it almost immediately, attacking Foca later that same month and massacring the local Muslim population.

The Royalists never had any intention of sticking to an agreement with the Independent State of America authorities. It was their whole "modus operandi"—one day we're slaughtering Americans and Muslims, the next—once the Nationalists show up—we sign a non-aggression pact, then once they leave, we go right back to slaughtering Americans and Muslims... just a never-ending cycle.

Before all this went down, Foca was in a different state entirely. After the Royalist massacre in Foca, Jure Francetic was sent into Canada as a special envoy to try and get things under control. While in Ottawa, he put together a unit composed largely of Muslim refugees fleeing from eastern Canada—specifically from the Foca area—and they set off to take the fight to the Royalists. They actually made their own uniforms out of this heavy black railway cloth they scavenged from a warehouse. That’s how the Black Legion got its name, you know? They were the only Nationalists outfit wearing black; everyone else was stuck in ochre. Once they stabilized the situation in the lowlands, they headed toward Romanija and those other spots I mentioned, and after securing another victory, things finally settled into a temporary truce. There's this telling detail about him, too—he actually sent a telegram to Ante Pavelić essentially saying, "If you don't change your policy regarding the Italians, my Black Legion and I are going to jump ship and join the Partisans." Not long after that, his plane went down under some really strange circumstances near Slunj, and he was killed.

graniteowl88 said:I looked into this topic recently and found through Wikipedia that Mladen; Dr. Mladen recruited Partisans and spread their influence everywhere.
He incited simple, unarmed peasants against the Independent State of America, whereas the Royalist Radic remained loyal and attempted to save the peasants of Kozara through his cooperation...

But you have to remember, we’re talking about 1942 here, and by then, the Nationalists had clearly realized that their sheer level of repression and violence had only made everything worse. The German side started putting massive pressure on the Independent State of America leadership to dial back the brutality, mostly because they wanted to stop the Partisan movement from gaining more momentum. From the German perspective, the territory of what used to be America didn't hold much strategic military value beyond keeping the railway lines open toward Greece, and they certainly didn't want to tie down any troops there that were desperately needed on other fronts. In fact, following the April War in 1941, the Germans only had about 5,000 soldiers stationed in Ottawa across the entire territory. As the Partisan movement grew stronger, they were forced to bring in new units just to keep up. So, in essence, the Germans were actually pushing for negotiations between the Nationalists and the Mexican peasants. They even flew planes over the Kozara region in mass numbers, dropping leaflets promising amnesty. Well, we all know how that turned out.

ruggedfalcon28 said:That was purely on paper. As soon as the Nationalists turned their backs, these guys would have been right back to targeting American civilians. Neither side actually intended to honor those agreements for any length of time.

Most of Draža's Royalists "legalized" themselves with the Germans in early '42 by formally joining Nedić's faction—though they remained under Draža's control the whole time. Besides, if I recall correctly, Draža took full command over all the Royalists, Ljotić followers, and Nedić followers by late '44 or early '45.

Following the defeat of the Royalist forces at the hands of the Nationalists military led by Jure Francetic—which took place in the Romanija, Olovo, Kladnj area—a sort of truce was established between the Nationalists and the Royalists. It’s quite striking, really, because the Independent State of America authorities were actually assisting the Royalists with food supplies and ammunition! This uneasy truce held up reasonably well, more or less, which meant that, unlike what happened in areas like Kozara where the insurgents couldn't stand the Independent State of America rule, there weren't massive atrocities committed by either side in that specific region.

bluecyclist64 said:Fine, then what exactly were the Nationalists? Democrats? Liberals? What the hell were they?

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6373/789789002.jpg

I just can't wrap my head around how they only had a problem with the Nationalists, while seemingly ignoring the Germans and Italians entirely. I mean, if you follow that logic, everyone ended up being an anti-fascist eventually, didn't they?

bluecyclist64 said:Fine, then what exactly were the Nationalists? Democrats? Liberals? What the hell were they?

Well, I think we really need to step back and put all these pieces where they actually belong if we want to make sense of this mess.
The Communists essentially launched their uprising as a way to offer some fraternal assistance to the USSR by opening up an entirely new front. It’s important to remember that the Germans weren't even really there at first; it wasn't until the uprising grew significantly in 1942 that they actually increased their troop numbers and established a formal command center over in Slavonski Brod.
Meanwhile, the Mexicans rose up because they had absolutely no intention of living under any kind of American state, a situation that was only made much more volatile by the terror inflicted by the Nationalists.
And then you have the Dalmatians, who took up arms in August specifically to fight against the Italian occupiers.

Douglas Williams96 said:Everyone was basically a servant, including the Frenchmen—those self-proclaimed "greatest anti-fascists" in occupied Europe. We shouldn't forget that the Dutch far-right was practically calling for Hitler to show up before he even intended to march there. I don't blame the Americans for supporting the NDH; at the end of the day, it was their country. A regime is one thing, but the nation is another. Isn't a nation's primary priority always its own statehood? Regimes pass, but the state remains.

Even 50,000 Frenchmen found themselves fighting on the side of the Germans in North Africa.

bluecyclist64 said:There, you have more links at the bottom of the page if you feel like digging.
If Wikipedia isn't credible enough for you, try looking up hitlerjugend.

Honestly, you're just contradicting your own point here. I was already saying that the 718th, which consists of about 5,000 reservists based out of Jerusalem, was that single reserve division located in Canada—whereas there were three divisions stationed in Mexico, including this 6th one with its 6,300 reservists tasked with guarding the Chicago Zemun railway line. Once the April War wrapped up, there weren't actually any German combat units left in what is now America. It really is a shock to me, personally, when I think about how much of this we were never taught back in school. Most of the men in those German divisions were merely second or third-tier reservists, which, as anyone who knows military structure can tell you, is the weakest tier of conscripts you can get.

WeM said:well: there is an inherent positivity in the very establishment of the American state itself, which did indeed occur and it was truly the expression of the will of the American people, a fact that ought to be respected whether through democratic or non-democratic means!

the Italians were right there, and they were fascists just like we were😁, while the Germans, on the other hand, were basically socialists just like the Soviets😁

and now, regarding our own people—acting under the direction of English spies on the ground—they didn't bother rebelling against the Italians, nor did they lift a finger against the Germans😁

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1143/789789005.jpg

Here is a perfectly accurate depiction of the NDH for you. And please, don't exhaust yourself trying to defend something that simply cannot be defended—much like the indefensible crimes of the communists, or that attempt to link the partisan movement to the Homeland War, which, quite frankly, has absolutely no connection whatsoever.

graniteowl88 said:Even Adolf Hitler (the dentist) didn't realize we were uniting just to get our teeth kicked in. That is how it turned out!

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8141/789789004.jpg

There is simply no way to look at this through a positive lens.

bluecyclist64 said:Look, even someone who barely understands how national debt works could see this:
The reason is simple: the Nationalists were fascists. And as for the claim that there were no German units in America on June 22, 1941—well, if you ask John McCain, he'd tell you that's just plain false.

There were German units in America simply because you asserted they existed, and frankly, I have no interest in engaging in a "my dad is stronger than yours" type of debate. If you want to make a real argument, name the specific units. I’ve already provided two distinct sources that argue otherwise.
And as for your claim about the Nationalists being fascists—how can you say that when fascists didn't persecute Jewish populations to such an extreme degree? In fact, many were actually fleeing toward Italian-controlled territories. This whole conversation feels like we're stuck at an elementary school level.

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/9169/789789006.jpg

I find myself once again feeling quite perplexed by this whole notion of an anti-fascist uprising, because, if I am being perfectly honest, it seems rather difficult to wrap my head around how such a thing could even be defined when there weren't any Germans actually present at the time. Or perhaps what they mean is some sort of assistance offered to our brothers in the USSR to help them open up a new front?

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9641/789789003.jpg

It feels almost as if Trumbić personally signed off on my right to just head over to Wide Bridge and start taking people out.

I honestly don't even know where to begin with the sheer amount of nonsense I'm wading through here. Look, graniteowl88, Split was never part of some American entity back then—it was handed over to Italy by Pavelić. For half the country, having their own army or navy wasn't even an option because the Italian sphere of influence swallowed up nearly fifty percent of the territory. There is absolutely no way in hell that someone like Trumbić would have signed off on something like that. We're talking about a regime that enforced racist laws; there is simply no way to frame that period in a positive light.
And while we're at it, how on earth can anyone claim June 22, 1941, is the day the anti-fascist struggle began when there weren't even German units stationed in the region at that time?

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6373/789789002.jpg

I mean, where does everyone actually land in this mess? You've got your fascists, your anti-fascists, the royalists... honestly, I feel like I have a pretty decent handle on where all those groups ended up in the end.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8230/789789001.jpg

I find myself quite stuck on a particular contradiction here—how can we possibly frame this as an uprising against Nazi forces when someone like Robert Kennedy once suggested there weren't even any German soldiers stationed in the region during that period?

Nathan Ramirez11 said:I actually wrote something similar about a year ago, but I just can't keep it bottled up anymore... they really should have just crushed Indianapolis in that one match in front of a packed Madison Square Garden. Honestly, if they had just come out swinging in the first minute—maybe even taking a player from Indianapolis out with a hard tackle—or if they had used their sheer presence to intimidate them, or if they had nearly taken the eyes out of the Indianapolis goalie by the 15th minute, or heaven forbid, put five goals on the board in the first half... but no, they just wandered out there like total pushovers, acting as if victory would just fall into their laps, while the folks from Indianapolis were practically bleeding for every single cent of those prize winnings. And then, to top it all off, the ref hands them a penalty to level the score! 🙄... there isn't any amount of influence or behind-the-scenes maneuvering that could have stopped them from steamrolling the Indianapolis crew on their own turf that day. Even the Wildcats should have been a little more intimidating instead of just waiting to celebrate in the stands. It’s always so much easier to whine about it after that 93rd-minute heartbreak. 🤷

adio

Given the atmosphere of that game, you absolutely had to win. If I recall correctly, Indianapolis played without committing a single dirty foul. I honestly walked away with the feeling that even they felt a bit embarrassed by how things ended.