Posts by brightharbor20

What kind of space?
What kind of party?
How many people?
Where at?

Back when I turned 30, I was hunting for a spot for an overnight stay for 18 people—somewhere near Cleveland

I stuck to a radius of 19 miles around Cleveland (it’s not great for the designated drivers to be cruising for too long after a night of heavy drinking) and my only non-negotiables were a pool or a huge jacuzzi and enough beds for all 18 of us. Honestly, I thought this would be a breeze—money wasn't even a massive issue—but man, it turned out to be a total nightmare. Every single villa or rental house in California or around Cleveland requires at least a 4-day stay (and even then, that's rare; usually it's a 7-day minimum), and all I needed was one Saturday night.
I scoured all of Expedia, Airbnb, and every random private site I could dig up online. I barely found 10 places that fit the bill—some explicitly said "no parties," so I skipped them, and three I actually booked through Expedia ended up calling me a day or two later. Once they asked what the occasion was (I was upfront about it being a birthday bash), they basically politely asked me to cancel and refunded my money.
After that failed hunt, with only a few days left until my birthday, I had to compromise. I booked a complex of 2 houses in Boise (there are 3 houses total in the complex) that have a shared indoor pool and sauna for $400/night per house—so $800 total for one night. It wasn't perfect location-wise or price-wise, but I couldn't find anything better.

Basically, you usually have to know someone to snag spots like that, but unfortunately, I didn't have any connections who could pull strings for a group of 18 (you can find stuff for 8 to 12 people, but anything over that is a massive headache).

Mark Harris66 said:I'm right there with brightharbor20 on this—we went through the exact same headache back in Cleveland while hunting for a place.
I honestly don't get people here in Cleveland who sell their property through an agency... I mean, why just hand over 3%? I'd never hire an agency to handle a sale myself. It feels like trying to find a listing in Cleveland without going through an agency is basically impossible. Even if you're just looking for a rental or a single room, everything goes through the agencies anyway 🤦
I really don't get landlords—they're just cutting into their own profits.

Actually, you've got it backwards, they aren't losing anything at all... Here's how the game works—a homeowner decides to sell for $100,000. Some agent hears through a friend of a friend that the place is up for grabs, tracks them down, and pitches it like this: "Look, our agency will list this for $115,000. The buyer will try to haggle, so we'll drop it to $110,000 (buyer feels like they won, even though it's way higher than the original price). The buyer pays that 3% fee, which is about $3,500, and you pay your 3% too, but even after that, you still walked away with more than your initial $100,000." So really, it's the buyer paying both commissions, and the seller didn't have to lift a finger because the agency handled everything... Sucks for us buyers, but that's just how it is. Don't see it changing anytime soon.

silentridge3 said:Well, if we're being honest, they basically already have.

In Chicago, there’s such a massive amount of real estate floating around, and these agencies just constantly "flood" the listing sites, intentionally creating this illusion that there are fifty thousand different properties available. In reality, a homeowner hires one agency to handle the sale (if they hire anyone at all), but then some other agency just goes along and copies that exact same ad to "sell" the same property themselves. So, you end up with the same apartment listed by five different agencies. My family was selling an apartment once, and there were at least five separate ads for that exact same place on Craigslist. It gets even weirder—sometimes even a year after the place has been sold, some agency is still out there "selling" it.

What’s actually being achieved by this constant "flooding," by clogging up Craigslist with tens of thousands of agency listings? I guess it's just making sure private listings (the non-agency ones) stay totally invisible; you simply can't find them, they're like looking for a needle in a haystack. It would be really something if Craigslist just separated private ads from agency ones...

Exactly. That’s why I think my model would work a lot better. If a seller just paid an agency a small monthly fee, say $17, just to keep the listing active, then the agency could stop being so aggressive during the actual transaction; they’d still be making money, just in smaller increments. And the seller might actually stop and think about whether it’s worth "selling" (advertising) a place for three years at some delusional, sky-high price without ever actually closing the deal—you know, thinking, "maybe some rich person or someone crazy will eventually stumble upon it and buy it at this ridiculous price"—when they realize they’ve spent $600 over those three years just on advertising...

Yeah, it feels like things in Cleveland are starting to mirror places like Manhattan or even Munich—there’s just this massive shortage of apartments everywhere. And, honestly, if you think about it, an agency doesn't really have to break a sweat; they basically pocket a huge chunk of change the second someone decides to put their place on the market.
Chicago is a whole different story, though, because there are actually plenty of empty units sitting around, plus there's this much higher demand for people shuffling things around—you know, selling a house to grab an apartment, or maybe offloading a big place to pick up two smaller ones. It’s such a shame the market isn't working more efficiently, where there's a sort of natural "real estate flow" happening. I can't help but feel like part of the mess stems from the agencies themselves and the way their entire business model is set up.

In Cleveland, that just isn't how things work—or at least, it’s definitely not the norm. Every condo up for sale usually has an exclusive contract with just one agency and the specific agent who first brought it to market. That original agency and agent snag the lion's share of the commission, regardless of who actually closes the deal. Sure, another agent from that same office might sell it, or even someone from a different firm if there’s a "mole" leaking listings between agencies (there's always some mole, right?), but if an outsider sells it, they only get a tiny slice compared to the original finder. It's probably some internal handshake to keep everyone from constant infighting. And in Cleveland, agencies don't just go around ripping off private listings. If a homeowner posts something themselves, agencies will hammer them with calls every single day trying to grab the listing, but if the seller says no, it stays private. It's super rare for them to cave. Honestly, Cleveland is like the most advanced city in the US when it comes to real estate; we're talking over 20 different agencies for a city of 100,000 people, and the big players easily have 30 or 40 agents on staff.

silentridge3 said:Well, if we're being honest, they basically already have.

In Chicago, there’s such a massive amount of real estate floating around, and these agencies just constantly "flood" the listing sites, intentionally creating this illusion that there are fifty thousand different properties available. In reality, a homeowner hires one agency to handle the sale (if they hire anyone at all), but then some other agency just goes along and copies that exact same ad to "sell" the same property themselves. So, you end up with the same apartment listed by five different agencies. My family was selling an apartment once, and there were at least five separate ads for that exact same place on Craigslist. It gets even weirder—sometimes even a year after the place has been sold, some agency is still out there "selling" it.

What’s actually being achieved by this constant "flooding," by clogging up Craigslist with tens of thousands of agency listings? I guess it's just making sure private listings (the non-agency ones) stay totally invisible; you simply can't find them, they're like looking for a needle in a haystack. It would be really something if Craigslist just separated private ads from agency ones...

Exactly. That’s why I think my model would work a lot better. If a seller just paid an agency a small monthly fee, say $17, just to keep the listing active, then the agency could stop being so aggressive during the actual transaction; they’d still be making money, just in smaller increments. And the seller might actually stop and think about whether it’s worth "selling" (advertising) a place for three years at some delusional, sky-high price without ever actually closing the deal—you know, thinking, "maybe some rich person or someone crazy will eventually stumble upon it and buy it at this ridiculous price"—when they realize they’ve spent $600 over those three years just on advertising...

Yeah, it feels like things in Cleveland are starting to mirror places like Manhattan or even Munich—there’s just this massive shortage of apartments everywhere. And, honestly, if you think about it, an agency doesn't really have to break a sweat; they basically pocket a huge chunk of change the second someone decides to put their place on the market.
Chicago is a whole different story, though, because there are actually plenty of empty units sitting around, plus there's this much higher demand for people shuffling things around—you know, selling a house to grab an apartment, or maybe offloading a big place to pick up two smaller ones. It’s such a shame the market isn't working more efficiently, where there's a sort of natural "real estate flow" happening. I can't help but feel like part of the mess stems from the agencies themselves and the way their entire business model is set up.

That's a nice little fantasy you've got going there, but why would anyone actually push for this when everything is running just fine as it is? ...Well, for them, I guess.😁Those agencies have been pocketing that 3% cut forever, and honestly, like 90% of homes sell that way anyway. There's always gonna be suckers buying through them—and hey, I’m the first one in line! I just don't have the damn time to hunt for private listings. It's not like you can find anything decent on Craigslist; it's all just agency ads. If I see a listing with a view from the balcony, I basically have to memorize the skyline, drive around the neighborhood looking for the exact building, and then knock on neighbors' doors asking if anyone knows a place for sale. Out of all the places hitting the market, maybe 10% even show the view, and only like 0.01% of those actually fit what I'm looking for. Who has the time for that kind of detective work?

silentridge3 said:Well, if we're being honest, they basically already have.

In Chicago, there’s such a massive amount of real estate floating around, and these agencies just constantly "flood" the listing sites, intentionally creating this illusion that there are fifty thousand different properties available. In reality, a homeowner hires one agency to handle the sale (if they hire anyone at all), but then some other agency just goes along and copies that exact same ad to "sell" the same property themselves. So, you end up with the same apartment listed by five different agencies. My family was selling an apartment once, and there were at least five separate ads for that exact same place on Craigslist. It gets even weirder—sometimes even a year after the place has been sold, some agency is still out there "selling" it.

What’s actually being achieved by this constant "flooding," by clogging up Craigslist with tens of thousands of agency listings? I guess it's just making sure private listings (the non-agency ones) stay totally invisible; you simply can't find them, they're like looking for a needle in a haystack. It would be really something if Craigslist just separated private ads from agency ones...

Exactly. That’s why I think my model would work a lot better. If a seller just paid an agency a small monthly fee, say $17, just to keep the listing active, then the agency could stop being so aggressive during the actual transaction; they’d still be making money, just in smaller increments. And the seller might actually stop and think about whether it’s worth "selling" (advertising) a place for three years at some delusional, sky-high price without ever actually closing the deal—you know, thinking, "maybe some rich person or someone crazy will eventually stumble upon it and buy it at this ridiculous price"—when they realize they’ve spent $600 over those three years just on advertising...

Yeah, it feels like things in Cleveland are starting to mirror places like Manhattan or even Munich—there’s just this massive shortage of apartments everywhere. And, honestly, if you think about it, an agency doesn't really have to break a sweat; they basically pocket a huge chunk of change the second someone decides to put their place on the market.
Chicago is a whole different story, though, because there are actually plenty of empty units sitting around, plus there's this much higher demand for people shuffling things around—you know, selling a house to grab an apartment, or maybe offloading a big place to pick up two smaller ones. It’s such a shame the market isn't working more efficiently, where there's a sort of natural "real estate flow" happening. I can't help but feel like part of the mess stems from the agencies themselves and the way their entire business model is set up.

It’s not that Cleveland lacks apartments, it’s just that it lacks *good* ones... You can find empty places all day, but they’re all just holes in buildings from 50 or 60 years ago. It's like people don't even get the concept of "renovating"—I'm constantly seeing places that are 30 or 40 years old still in their original state... Plus, some utility monopoly handles the heating in these buildings and winter bills hit $500/month, so obviously nobody wants those... There are tons of sailors and entrepreneurs with serious cash who just snap up all the nice new builds, leaving absolutely nothing for the middle class...

I’ve been hunting for an apartment for 8 months now, and man, I am going hard at it... checked out 45 places already (42 through RE/MAX) and I’m spending like 2-3 hours every single day scrolling through Craigslist and agency sites... out of those 42 RE/MAX listings, one specific agent showed me 35 of them. He was actually the only one who seemed even remotely professional, mostly because he’d shoot me a text about a place the second he got it before it even hit the official sites. Honestly, the only thing I can say good about him is he's always reachable by phone or email, and since I don't have a car, he’d actually meet me right outside my office after work to drive me to viewings. So if I don't end up buying from him, he's basically losing money just to help me, but hey, I guess that's just part of the job

So this one time, I went to see a place where the price had just dropped by $10,000... it was a 65 m2 unit on the 6th floor. We both step into the elevator, and get this—there's already an agent from a totally different firm with her whole family in there, they're looking at the exact same place😕 and she tells us we have to wait until they're done because the elevator is full. My agent looks at me and says, "Let's just hurry up the stairs so we beat them to it." I was being naive, mind you—it was maybe my 2nd or 3rd viewing back then, and I figured maybe this place was seriously amazing or something😁 so I just followed his lead. Sure enough, we beat them, ring the bell, and the owners open the door and you won't believe it, but there's yet another agent from a third agency with a three-person family inside😵—plus that first lady with her two kids. There we were, 11 people crammed into a tiny 65 square meter apartment just trying to look around😁... within minutes, I realized this place wasn't for me and told my agent. Meanwhile, he notices the other group is heading out, so he literally starts pushing me toward the elevator, telling me we gotta move so we can beat them back to the lift😲... honestly, it immediately reminded me of some junkies fighting over a beer can at a bus station at 3 AM... total nightmare. This is what passes for "professionalism" and "expertise" these days.

After that disaster, I really hoped I wouldn't have to deal with agencies anymore, but unfortunately, that's impossible in a city like Chicago. They literally control every listing, and a decent place pops up maybe once every two months and gets snapped up in 2-3 days, naturally through an agency...

silentridge3 said:🤦

So, I see a listing on a free site like Craigslist, and suddenly...

...according to you...

...I've somehow "already hired an agency to find me a place"?????

When did I ever hire them? How does that even work?

Just to refresh your memory here: real estate agents aren't even going to show you a house (even if you haven't technically hired them yet) until you sign a contract promising to pay them a 1-2% commission once you actually buy the place.

Down in Cleveland, every agency charges 3% plus tax, and they hit both the buyer and the seller with that same amount... honestly, it's almost impossible to find a place that isn't through an agency (like 99.9% of everything on Craigslist is through an agency)... so you guys in Chicago should enjoy it while it lasts, because it definitely won't stay this way once agencies take over the whole market in a few years.

The only way to stop agencies is if sellers just flat-out ignore them, but that's never gonna happen with our mindset. I mean, why wouldn't someone hire an agency to sell their place when it saves them so much time and stress? And at the end of the day, the buyer ends up footing the bill for that whole 6 or 7% anyway.