Not exactly a masterpiece... 🙂 The Federal Reserve gives commercial banks the green light to dump a few thousand futures contracts whenever they need to manipulate prices. 😁 It’s pretty typical for all sorts of chaos to break out right before an FOMC meeting. 😁
That’s what happens when you settle for paper 😁 When you actually buy physical, you just tuck it away and forget about it. Then, when everything hits the fan, you pull it out and finally enjoy some peace of mind 🙂>
Ashley Thompson10 said:Let’s not overcomplicate this. Can we just agree on the following summary: - We're staring down a massive influx of liquidity. Between QE4 and the Federal Reserve printing money to bail out government debt and "stabilize" the big banks, the floodgates are open. - The economy is essentially being suffocated; unemployment remains high and manufacturing is lagging significantly. - Ever since the turn of the millennium, the stock market hasn't matched the kind of performance we saw during those golden fifty years prior. - Gold is keeping pace with the expanding money supply, while silver generally follows its lead. - There's a very real chance silver could see a major price spike once it starts running thin as an industrial metal.
Spot on. Just don't forget: - The demographic factor.
quiettrucker12 said:My bad, "since" works, but I still think it was a bit harsh to talk to our colleague like that regarding the shadow.
We've been stuck in this phase where stocks are problematic for years, but eventually, we'll hit that second stage shown on the graph where gold and stocks swap roles. At some point, gold will stretch too far, and capital will flow right back into equities.
But when does that actually happen? When are we ever going to resolve all these issues we've been debating endlessly here? At this point, the whole game is about preserving what you have rather than growing it. If growth were the goal, banks and major corporations would actually be investing instead of sitting on trillions of dollars.
Look, technically you just made yourself look foolish, though I never actually called you stupid. But I will say you're lying, twisting the facts, and haven't contributed a single useful thing to this conversation.
quiettrucker12 said:Stocks... since when? They're one of the most fundamental asset classes out there. People work, they build things, and then you hold equity in those companies. That's what stocks are.
It’s pretty rich criticizing someone else's grammar when you're out here tripping over your own "since when."
They aren't even worth their weight in gold. For instance, I have an original single dollar bill from the Franz Joseph era back in 1915. A few years ago, I picked up a Millennial stock certificate from 1936 at a flea market for five bucks—it had a face value of 10,000 old dollars back then. Do I really need to go any further? Ownership in companies? Please. For years now, stocks have been nothing more than speculative instruments. Only the people holding massive stakes actually have any say in how those firms are run. In the case of the US Government and ExxonMobil, they don't even have that much control. 🙂 You're right, though. It's spelled "since."
quiettrucker12 said:Maybe you took me the wrong way. I think my point was pretty clear. You’re underselling gold when you call it an inflation hedge. It’s like saying a backhoe is just for digging little holes for petunias. Sure, you can use it for that, but you can also dig foundations for skyscrapers with it. Use the right scale.
I’ve said this a dozen times already: we’re looking at an asset sitting in the middle of a massive bull market. Once the hype hits its peak and things get overpriced, that value is going to bleed right into other assets—specifically blue-chip stocks that actually generate real value—regardless of what the dollar is doing.
Sure, traders manipulate the market from time to time—it happens everywhere, whether they're pumping it up or dumping it. That’s not up for debate. But that’s a far cry from the big picture we've seen from 2000 to now. I already laid out how things actually stand, and I did it without even factoring in fiat currency.
You’ve got to learn how to tell the difference between temporary market manipulation—whether they're pumping it or dumping it—and an actual, sustained bull market. One is a trap; the other is the real deal.
So you're comparing gold to stocks? Since when are stocks considered a "real" asset? At the end of the day, they're just pieces of paper or digital entries that can be multiplied in a heartbeat, devaluing everything in the process.
analogharbor44 said:Fine, let's say inflation is 20% a year. That’s a safe bet if we're going by your logic (shadow inflation, right?). And what am I supposed to contribute when reading your posts? There's nothing to say. It's always the same stuff. Gold and silver have been money since the ancient Greeks.
You don't need silver to buy something productive. You can do that with paper money like US Dollars. 😍 If you ask me, I’d suggest buying a shovel and a rake instead.
So now we're just guessing at inflation rates? Like you're haggling at a flea market... "Oh, let's call it 20%... actually, make it 30%!" Where? Here? In the European Union? In the USA? You look foolish because you don't understand compound interest, and then you look even worse in the next post by refusing to even try learning it. Sometimes it's better to just stay quiet so you don't broadcast how little you know.
analogharbor44 said:Let him go, quiettrucker12! It turns out inflation has been sitting at a massive 30-40% annually since 2000 🤣 Plus, he was already talking about swapping his Silverstein for gold months ago if the ratio hits 1:20, so he’s clearly just speculating and praying silver moons so he can make that trade. He isn't actually saving anything! But hey, what do I know? 😂
Maybe brush up on some basic math, specifically compound interest. Try Googling "compound interest." You're really starting to show how little you actually get this. 🙂 I stick to silver because it's more affordable and I can pick up a few ounces whenever I want. I have no intention of swapping at 1:20; maybe I'll do it at 1:1, or maybe not at all. I might just use the silver to buy something productive. You clearly don't have a clue. You don't understand inflation, you can't calculate interest, and frankly, you haven't contributed anything useful to this thread.
That bus analogy is completely off base. You’re implying gold plays a role beyond just being money. What exactly is it? As long as you view gold as a commodity rather than currency, you’re going to stay lost. The evidence of price manipulation is everywhere, yet you won't budge. Do you honestly think naked shorting is standard practice? Or that it's perfectly fine to dump gold in the middle of the night when liquidity is at its lowest? And it isn't just gold. If you actually bothered to look into it, you'd see how heavily oil is manipulated too. Gold has been rigged since the Bretton Woods system, and it's so obvious that only the blind wouldn't notice. It seems impossible for you to wrap your head around the idea of steady price growth over the last 13 years existing alongside manipulation. Just look at the gold price explosion in the late seventies. That was pure mania driven by the fear that the dollar would collapse. Like I mentioned yesterday, this is just a combat deviation. If they had actually let the market breathe, the dollar and the euro would have been in the gutter a long time ago. And for what it's worth, can we even call this a "market" when everything is dictated by Fed interest rates and the rhetoric from central bank chairs? Is that really supply and demand?
quiettrucker12 said:And then you realize a bull market will always hunt for an excuse. It’ll find any reason to do what it was going to do anyway. There's no debate here: Federal Reserve "liquidity" will eventually flow into stocks, Commodities, and even gold, but gold isn't really an (anti)inflation tool anymore.
We're looking at a commodity bull run, which includes a gold bull within it.
Since 2001, Commodities (CRB) have grown by a factor of 1.5.
Gold, meanwhile, has shot up 6.8 times since 2000.
Sure, we'll see commodity inflation again in the next period, and it's tied to the gold bull, but gold is singing its own tune.
The ratio of the gold price to the CRB commodity index went from 1.1 back in 2000/2001 to today's 5.8 (we even touched over 6 recently).
If what the Federal Reserve is doing right now isn't the perfect excuse for the gold bull to keep climbing, I don't know what is.
Liquidity finds a way into everything. Their biggest headache is oil prices; they couldn't care less about gold. There isn't any massive manipulation happening, just the usual occasional trader activity you see everywhere else.
If gold were being manipulated, the ratio between Commodities and gold wouldn't have swung over 5x in favor of gold over the last 12 years.
If you want to look for manipulation, look at other Commodities—specifically oil—in the coming period.
People use those tired old theories about gold being manipulated downward as a convenient excuse for when their predictions fail miserably. Watch out for those folks.
Gold has always been—and will always be—at least a hedge against inflation. History proves it every single time, and we're seeing it happen right now. As for your other point, your premise is flawed from the jump. Which Commodities are we talking about? You can't just lump them all into one basket using some arbitrary index. Besides, that doesn't mean gold isn't being manipulated. Gold is climbing because of the endless printing of fiat currency...
vividgull10 said:Just because you’re delusional enough to call that "saving" doesn't mean it actually is. What "you guys" choose to do is your business, obviously, but talking about savings when something jumps 100% in six months only to crater by 50% is just plain ridiculous.
It’s not just my opinion; it’s backed by thousands of years of history. Then again, I suppose a day trader's brain struggles to see past next Tuesday, let alone a full year. And what exactly counts as saving? Bonds? US dollars? Old German marks? Oops... those don't exist anymore either. Show me any form of savings better than gold and silver—something that isn't being devalued by governments and banks, something that won't rot, stays liquid, and has actually worked for millennia—and I'll happily switch over. Like most trolls, I'd suggest you learn the difference between "money" and "currency," or even "saving" versus "investing." You clearly haven't even mastered basic concepts like inflation yet, so you still have a lot to learn.
The Keynesian crowd makes such a massive fuss about inflation just to mask what it actually is: a systematic theft of wealth, time, and resources from actual producers to feed parasites who live off constant currency devaluation—money they happen to print and control at their own whim. It’s really not that deep. Once you see through the noise, everything else starts making sense. I assume in the second half of your post you're talking about investing in them via PM, which is essentially just buying more of the same. You clearly haven't realized yet that we gold bugs and silver bugs don't "invest" in gold or silver—we save in them. I can't speak for everyone, but my income doesn't come from day trading the markets, so I allocate my time and labor carefully to build up a surplus that I then save in precious metals. How complicated can it get?
vividgull10 said:If you ask me, this whole thing boils down to a few basic fallacies:
- If inflation were just a simple equation where Federal Reserve printing > inflation = sky-high prices — everyone would be rich. - If precious metals worked on the logic that inflation spikes > gold must moon — everyone would be rich. - (Combining 1 and 2) If metals followed the logic that Federal Reserve prints > gold must moon — everyone would be rich.
Obviously, not everyone is rich. There’s a pretty clear correlation between what you know, how informed you are, solid risk management, and your actual bank balance.
The point is... the internet is flooded with characters who take things people study for years and reduce them to oversimplified sentences. I’m no trained economist, but I know enough to realize that any complex system is called "complex" for a reason. Consequently, there’s a reason anyone can start a YouTube channel, but not everyone gets a PhD.
The point being > it means nothing to me if someone happens to be right once in an indefinite period of time. That’s useless. It’s useless because it ignores the most elementary postulates of risk management. More specifically, it ignores risk management itself.
None of this is meant to imply I have all the answers. All I have is a pile of questions and a few stray ideas. For me, that's plenty. I learned long ago that staying disciplined is key—if you don't chase the hype, the profit usually finds you.
Inflation is actually pretty simple. It’s just more money circulating in the system. Nothing more, nothing less. If you pump more cash into circulation without a proportional increase in the goods and services that money is chasing, prices go up. It's basic economics. Does anyone really need it explained any other way? It’s not about making everyone rich; it's about ensuring the vast majority stays broke. Isn't that always the goal?
vividgull10 said:If you ask me, this whole thing boils down to a few basic fallacies:
- If inflation were just a simple equation where Federal Reserve printing > inflation = sky-high prices — everyone would be rich. - If precious metals worked on the logic that inflation spikes > gold must moon — everyone would be rich. - (Combining 1 and 2) If metals followed the logic that Federal Reserve prints > gold must moon — everyone would be rich.
Obviously, not everyone is rich. There’s a pretty clear correlation between what you know, how informed you are, solid risk management, and your actual bank balance.
The point is... the internet is flooded with characters who take things people study for years and reduce them to oversimplified sentences. I’m no trained economist, but I know enough to realize that any complex system is called "complex" for a reason. Consequently, there’s a reason anyone can start a YouTube channel, but not everyone gets a PhD.
The point being > it means nothing to me if someone happens to be right once in an indefinite period of time. That’s useless. It’s useless because it ignores the most elementary postulates of risk management. More specifically, it ignores risk management itself.
None of this is meant to imply I have all the answers. All I have is a pile of questions and a few stray ideas. For me, that's plenty. I learned long ago that staying disciplined is key—if you don't chase the hype, the profit usually finds you.
Wrong again, just like with that first point. Unlike fiat or digital money, you can't just print gold whenever the whim strikes. That’s exactly why it serves as such an incredible barometer for the value of paper currency. And just when you think everyone's going to strike it rich... as if.
vividgull10 said:If you ask me, this whole thing boils down to a few basic fallacies:
- If inflation were just a simple equation where Federal Reserve printing > inflation = sky-high prices — everyone would be rich. - If precious metals worked on the logic that inflation spikes > gold must moon — everyone would be rich. - (Combining 1 and 2) If metals followed the logic that Federal Reserve prints > gold must moon — everyone would be rich.
Obviously, not everyone is rich. There’s a pretty clear correlation between what you know, how informed you are, solid risk management, and your actual bank balance.
The point is... the internet is flooded with characters who take things people study for years and reduce them to oversimplified sentences. I’m no trained economist, but I know enough to realize that any complex system is called "complex" for a reason. Consequently, there’s a reason anyone can start a YouTube channel, but not everyone gets a PhD.
The point being > it means nothing to me if someone happens to be right once in an indefinite period of time. That’s useless. It’s useless because it ignores the most elementary postulates of risk management. More specifically, it ignores risk management itself.
None of this is meant to imply I have all the answers. All I have is a pile of questions and a few stray ideas. For me, that's plenty. I learned long ago that staying disciplined is key—if you don't chase the hype, the profit usually finds you.
Nobody here is actually talking about risk management. Instead, we’re stuck on this age-old delusion held by those with the power to print money—the idea that they can just crank up the supply, conjure value out of thin air, and somehow drive economic growth. It never worked then, and it sure as hell won't work now.
The Federal Reserve has just one mission: saving their buddies in the banking sector. Inflation or unemployment? That's just bedtime stories for children. In its hundred years of existence, they’ve managed to wipe out 98% of the dollar's value. Real unemployment is actually north of 12%. Just because they stopped counting people who gave up looking for work doesn't mean those people don't exist. It's all just propaganda and lies designed to make even the average, exhausted American stop believing anything. I'm talking about next year, analogharbor44. And the Japanese people are a whole different story. Honestly, they're my top candidates for a total collapse. An aging population, a trade deficit, bleeding out against China, and a domestic population that's losing interest in buying bonds... not to mention a social structure that's getting "weird." And this muppet Jeffrey Christian has been wrong every single time so far. Every time. He thinks gold prices will stay flat... based on what? Is he expecting an economic recovery? Maybe on some other planet, but not here on Earth. As for silver, he's lying through his teeth. Investment demand weak? The US Mint alone is going to move 35 million Eagles. Austrian Coins will likely do 20 million. Same for the Royal Canadian Mint. I haven't checked on the Perth Mint yet, but it won't be under 15 million. And where are the Chinese people who don't even bother publishing their numbers? Let's be clear: nobody would be happier than me if silver dropped to $20—I'd buy up every ounce of physical metal I could find. But when you hear these claims from a proven propagandist for the banking clique, you should take them with at least a grain of salt.
The reason they manipulate gold is actually quite simple. It’s the only true yardstick for measuring the value of fiat currency. Our entire petrodollar-based system relies on people trusting the dollar. When you see fiat losing ground against gold for thirteen straight years, does that not scream manipulation to you? In military terms, you might call this combat deviation. Most of those printed dollars just vanish into the black hole of the shadow banking system to bail out worthless assets. At this rate, the Federal Reserve is becoming the largest real estate owner in the history of Space. And what's their plan for all that property? Keep it off the market, much like how banks are currently sitting on 15 million properties to maintain the illusion that the housing sector is actually recovering? Next year, the Federal Reserve will be buying up 90% of US debt. Why? Because nobody else wants it anymore—both Chinese people and Japanese people realize these bonds are losing value by the day. Besides, it's the only move they have left; no alternative has ever been put on the table. This is a level of socialism that would have been unimaginable even in old-school communist regimes. As Kyle Bass put it: "Capitalism without bankruptcy is like religion without hell." Instead of letting the banks and firms fail in 2008 to clear the slate, they dumped everything onto the taxpayers and started printing dollars like there was no tomorrow. The end is obvious; the only question is when it hits and how ugly it will look. And we haven't even touched on the MF Global mess, the rigging of LIBOR, the US government refusing to show—let alone return—gold to Germans, the dozens of lawsuits in Switzerland vs banks regarding the mishandling of clients' physical gold (which the media completely ignored), or the MERS scandal that quietly evaporated once people realized how massive the fraud actually was. There are endless examples. The situation in the European Union goes without saying. The fools who voted to join the European Union are going to get a rude awakening when they realize the endgame is total federalization, the death of sovereign nations, and a level of centralized power that even Stalin could only dream of. What François Hollande is doing in France is reminiscent of the era right before the 18th-century revolutions. Threatening to nationalize the world's largest steel producer? Blocking the European Union budget just to keep subsidizing French farmers? It's madness. We are literally standing in the eye of the tornado. Once the storm actually hits, we're looking at a collapse I don't even want to think about. You have trillions waiting to shatter the financial system, a shadow banking system so bloated and corrupt it's a miracle it hasn't imploded yet, US unfunded liabilities that the government admits are over $80 trillion (though the real number is north of $200 trillion), the largest bubble in human history (US Treasuries), a derivatives market just waiting for a Black Swan to wipe out the entire global financial structure, and the farce of the so-called fiscal cliff that's just hanging in mid-air like Wile E. Coyote before hitting the canyon floor. Any one of these threats is enough to send everything to hell.
analogharbor44 said:$3,000? No way, $36667not really!
That’s straight from Kennedy's catalog. Most serious collectors don't treat it as gospel, but it gives you a general ballpark. Just look at what went down a few weeks ago: http://www.coinworld.com/articles/an...returns-to-th/
Coin collecting is a strange business, isn't it? 🙂
The certificate lists the specific literature describing this gold coin. Experts claim only 19 pieces were minted in Washington, D.C., and they’re cited as the originals.
Back in 1948, another 450 pieces were minted in the USA, which are mentioned in various numismatic books.
Getting an authenticity certification isn't easy; it has to be issued by an authorized forensic numismatic expert. Both the certificate and the expert report come with a fee.
There’s no way to know exactly how many of these coins are left in circulation globally. Plenty of collectors have confirmed they've never even seen an original in person, though there's a description in some numismatic literature
but they don't include a photo because they've never had access to one.
Sometimes people have quoted values around $5,500, but that's not for the true originals since those only hit the market once every 30 years or so.
The price might look huge if you're looking at it through the lens of our local economy, but on the international stage, it’s totally reasonable for something this rare.
Higher offers have been made before, but without a serious broker, it's tough to close a deal with a buyer from Australia or the USA.
Krause claims only 170 were minted and lists the value at $3,000 (Standard Catalog of World Coins 1901.-2000., 37th edition, 2010 release). Looks like a chance for Thompson and the rest of them to make a killing.😁
analogharbor44 said:Alright! We'll see about that. Too bad we aren't talking silver instead of gold—then you might actually be able to sell some silver to Luković! 😍
It’s actually pretty great for the silver bugs that silver hasn't been dragged into this mess. Let them keep burning through the silver supply. Let it dwindle until there's nothing left. And you can't exactly eat it either—just like gold. 🙂