Posts by placidharbor7

Edward Flores4 said:Oh, really?

As far as I know, standard American grammar suggests using the first person when you're talking about yourself. Honestly, switching to the third person during a direct conversation is usually seen as one of those early red flags for an ego problem. We have a saying here about people who "act like they're their own boss" even when they aren't—it's a hallmark of someone with a massive ego and huge ambitions, but without actually having the skills to back them up. So, they resort to this weird "self-referencing" thing, talking about themselves in the third person to sound more important than they are.

This whole attempt at making excuses is pretty pathetic... you're basically just selling snake oil here!

That’s just how you roll—everything is just "as far as I know" with you.
KNOWING—to you, the whole government is just a total Google.

Edward Flores4 said:What I’m actually talking about is the act of doubling down on your own confusion—which is lightyears away from this "intellectual realization" nonsense you spend all day rambling about.

A "defect" only exists as long as a GIVEN entity possesses specific attributes and qualities, Edward Flores4.

Look, I have no idea who taught you what or where you picked up that philosophy, but they clearly gave you a raw deal. Honestly, trying to hide the gaps in your logic by hiding behind pseudo-intellectual fog like using terms like "given entity" is just a desperate attempt to sell blind people a pair of sunglasses.

So, why don't you enlighten us, "Master"... what exactly defines this "entity," and does your obsession with "giving" things have some weird subtext I should know about?

From where I'm sitting... it just looks like a fresh batch of smoke and mirrors. 🤷

Haha, oh man... those Tupamaros!😂

I can't believe I'm actually sitting here typing this out, but honestly, where do we even begin? Is it just me, or does it feel like everything is moving at a hundred miles an hour lately? It’s absolutely wild! I was thinking about it earlier today while grabbing a coffee, and it hit me—how often do we actually stop to process what’s happening around us? We get so caught up in the daily grind, the endless notifications, and the constant rush that we miss the big picture entirely. Isn't that just the craziest thing? We’re all sprinting toward a finish line that keeps moving further away! Anyway, I wanted to jump in here because I’ve been reflecting on some of the things we’ve discussed recently. There’s so much energy in this community, and I love it! It really gets my heart racing to see everyone sharing their thoughts with such passion. It makes you wonder, doesn't it? What if we all took just a second to breathe and look at things from a different angle? Wouldn't the world be a whole lot more interesting if we did? I’m feeling incredibly optimistic about where things are heading, even with all the chaos. There’s always a silver lining if you look hard enough, right? Let’s keep this momentum going! I can't wait to hear what everyone else thinks about this. What’s on your mind today? Don't be shy—let's get a real conversation started! kaže:
So, placidharbor7, you’re really going to put me on the spot like that? You're asking for a definition of "DATOST"? Honestly, where do I even begin? It sounds like one of those heavy, technical terms they throw around just to make things sound more complicated than they actually are! But seriously, what exactly are we talking about here? Are we diving into some deep, philosophical concept, or is this some niche industry jargon that only a handful of people actually use? Sometimes these terms feel like they were invented just to keep us all on our toes! What do you think? Is it just fancy talk, or is there some real substance behind it that I'm missing?

Honestly, DATOST is basically everything! It’s all there. Someone really needs to step up and overhaul the way we handle deep, introspective discourse here in America—but hey, looking at you, I don't think you're quite cut out for the job, are you?

Edward Flores4 said:Is it just me, or is talking about yourself in the third person a total red flag for egocentrics struggling with an inferiority complex?

Or maybe it’s just egocentrics who are fully aware of their own hang-ups talking about themselves no matter what pronoun they use, shamantrixx?🙂

Edward Flores4 said:Give me a break... since you brought it up, let's actually look at what we can learn from these "self-proclaimed" titles of yours.

I call myself a local sociopath, which is clearly a social shortcoming.

You call yourself a MASTER, which is—let's be honest—supposedly a virtue.

If we plug that into the equation, which goes something like this:
To realize that you do not understand is a virtue; Not to realize that you do not understand is a defect.

...it becomes incredibly obvious who the actual defect is here, and who actually possesses a shred of self-awareness. ☕

...there is a massive difference between being fascinated by a horse and being a man who loves horses. But I guess to someone like YOU, everything is just the same.

None of that even matters compared to how "fascinating" your masterly persona is. Failing to realize you don't get it? That's the real defect... "MASTER." 😉

Live long and prosper!

And honestly? I think I'm way bigger than that!

Edward Flores4 said:Give me a break... since you brought it up, let's actually look at what we can learn from these "self-proclaimed" titles of yours.

I call myself a local sociopath, which is clearly a social shortcoming.

You call yourself a MASTER, which is—let's be honest—supposedly a virtue.

If we plug that into the equation, which goes something like this:
To realize that you do not understand is a virtue; Not to realize that you do not understand is a defect.

...it becomes incredibly obvious who the actual defect is here, and who actually possesses a shred of self-awareness. ☕

...there is a massive difference between being fascinated by a horse and being a man who loves horses. But I guess to someone like YOU, everything is just the same.

None of that even matters compared to how "fascinating" your masterly persona is. Failing to realize you don't get it? That's the real defect... "MASTER." 😉

Live long and prosper!

Intellectual breakthroughs are basically just LEGO bricks for people like shamantrixx!

Edward Flores4 said:Give me a break... since you brought it up, let's actually look at what we can learn from these "self-proclaimed" titles of yours.

I call myself a local sociopath, which is clearly a social shortcoming.

You call yourself a MASTER, which is—let's be honest—supposedly a virtue.

If we plug that into the equation, which goes something like this:
To realize that you do not understand is a virtue; Not to realize that you do not understand is a defect.

...it becomes incredibly obvious who the actual defect is here, and who actually possesses a shred of self-awareness. ☕

...there is a massive difference between being fascinated by a horse and being a man who loves horses. But I guess to someone like YOU, everything is just the same.

None of that even matters compared to how "fascinating" your masterly persona is. Failing to realize you don't get it? That's the real defect... "MASTER." 😉

Live long and prosper!

A "defect" only exists if the OBJECT actually possesses certain attributes and qualities, shamantrixx!

wearymason36 said:Alright, I think there’s been a fundamental misunderstanding regarding the concept of the 'stream of consciousness.'

It is an undeniable fact that the subconscious mind runs hundreds of background processes during our daily routine—most of which we aren't even aware of. These manifest as dreams while we sleep, or, in the case of mental health struggles, as psychological disorders.

Meditation can unlock these processes, essentially allowing us to observe them with focus, but it is difficult to watch them without getting sucked in. I wasn't referring to disconnecting from consciousness through numbness, but rather choosing not to get swept away by those constant torrents of thought.

Sometimes, our goal is actually the exact opposite: intentionally diving into a specific train of thought to find answers about ourselves.

Regardless, the paradoxical truth remains: true mental relaxation is one of the hardest things to achieve.

Total silence—honestly, it might be the only way to make it happen.

Brenda Cook4 said:It isn't really about "opposite meanings." It's more that meditation is this broad umbrella term. Underneath it, you have meditation in the narrow sense, and then you have contemplation (think of things like samatha and vipassana; their methods, aims, and results are quite distinct).

Think of it this way:
We concentrate because we want to reach the Goal.
We meditate because we want to live in the heart of the Goal.
We contemplate because we want to become the Goal.

...so, if our aim is to truly grasp the nature of reality, we aren't looking to "detach from consciousness." Instead, we practice vipassana, which is nothing less than a penetrating vision born from a focused state of mind. What we're doing isn't escaping consciousness; it's actually waking it up—developing the capacity to truly see and understand...

...but there are plenty of experts out there who could explain that much better than I can...

Brenda Cook4 said:It isn't really about "opposite meanings." It's more that meditation is this broad umbrella term. Underneath it, you have meditation in the narrow sense, and then you have contemplation (think of things like samatha and vipassana; their methods, aims, and results are quite distinct).

Think of it this way:
We concentrate because we want to reach the Goal.
We meditate because we want to live in the heart of the Goal.
We contemplate because we want to become the Goal.

...so, if our aim is to truly grasp the nature of reality, we aren't looking to "detach from consciousness." Instead, we practice vipassana, which is nothing less than a penetrating vision born from a focused state of mind. What we're doing isn't escaping consciousness; it's actually waking it up—developing the capacity to truly see and understand...

...but there are plenty of experts out there who could explain that much better than I can...

As long as there is an "us," a "me," or an "I" involved—it isn't true meditation..

jademarlin26 said:It seems to me that you *are* that stream, so I am not entirely sure who is supposed to be detaching from whom.😕

Meditation doesn't have any connection at all to either the "observer" or the "observed."
placidharbor7 already pointed out that we really ought to start by defining what meditation *isn't* first.

wearymason36 said:I’ve always resonated with Osho’s take on meditation—the idea that it’s a state achieved by detaching oneself from the stream of consciousness. Most people mistake meditation for deep contemplation; they say things like, "Last night, I meditated on Jesus" or "on Siddhartha." To me, that isn't it. Real meditation is about stepping back from the flow of thought, or at least attempting to 🙂. You can't just kill off your thoughts without chemical assistance. The only way is through detached observation—positioning yourself like a cold, objective camera inside your own psyche. When you engage in deliberate contemplation, you're actively working to shape your thoughts using intellect and logic. But with detachment, the effort is only required at the start, while you work to become aware of your internal observer and how it reacts to the subconscious surge. Once you pull away, it’s like climbing out of a raging river to simply sit and watch the waterfall.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that the term "meditation" is being used to describe two diametrically opposed concepts here. In my view, nobody is wrong; we just need to be explicit about which definition we’re using during a conversation.

Even if you don't consider him an enlightened being, Shree Rajneesh Bhagwan Osho had this incredible knack for pushing Seekers to relentlessly hunt for real answers regarding meditation. His deep philosophical background and the way he fostered such an open, inquisitive atmosphere definitely helped him achieve that.

wearymason36 said:I’ve always resonated with Osho’s take on meditation—the idea that it’s a state achieved by detaching oneself from the stream of consciousness. Most people mistake meditation for deep contemplation; they say things like, "Last night, I meditated on Jesus" or "on Siddhartha." To me, that isn't it. Real meditation is about stepping back from the flow of thought, or at least attempting to 🙂. You can't just kill off your thoughts without chemical assistance. The only way is through detached observation—positioning yourself like a cold, objective camera inside your own psyche. When you engage in deliberate contemplation, you're actively working to shape your thoughts using intellect and logic. But with detachment, the effort is only required at the start, while you work to become aware of your internal observer and how it reacts to the subconscious surge. Once you pull away, it’s like climbing out of a raging river to simply sit and watch the waterfall.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that the term "meditation" is being used to describe two diametrically opposed concepts here. In my view, nobody is wrong; we just need to be explicit about which definition we’re using during a conversation.

But honestly? Those who truly know don't even bother worrying about these "two diametrically opposed meanings."

Brenda Cook4 said:Think about it—analogy is one of our most common ways of reasoning. The strength of an argument built on an analogy really stems from experience—specifically, noticing patterns and consistency among things. It’s about looking at how we relate to events and seeing those cause-and-effect chains in action. Essentially, if two things share certain traits, we naturally assume they are similar in all their core principles.

...I’d venture to guess that the first thing you notice—the one thing shared by everything—is just how fleeting everything truly is...

...on the flip side, that kind of experience preceding deep meditation might have been a single moment of pure somatic bliss in a dark cave. Picture some early ancestor after a grueling hunt, maybe after deciding to whip up a little herbal tonic😁 (who knows what life was actually like for our poor ancestors? It probably wasn't "easy." To me, it feels more like a dream world, occasionally interrupted by physical reality—just intense cascades of imagery before that visual gallery got pushed into the subconscious once language evolved and verbal thought started taking over the mind)...🤷

I mean, come on—you really think it was just "one single pleasant moment" that sparked all the spirituality and religion we see across the globe today?

Edward Flores4 said:I can see you're a bit speechless... though I suppose there’s no point in whipping a dead horse, no matter how fascinating the creature might have been once upon a time. 👋

Listen, you fascinating little local sociopath—and I say that because you actually call yourself that! There is a massive difference between the fascination of a horse and the fascination of a human being who acts like one. But then again, for someone like YOU, I suppose it’s all the same thing, isn't it?

I can't believe I actually found someone else who shares this level of passion for the topic! It’s honestly such a breath of fresh air to stumble upon a discussion that goes this deep. Don't you just love it when you find a corner of the internet where people actually care about the nuances instead of just skimming the surface? I've been following these developments closely, and I have to say, the energy here is absolutely infectious! It makes me want to dive even deeper into the research. Is it just me, or does everything feel like it's finally clicking into place right now? It feels like we're standing on the edge of something truly significant! kaže:
Anyone out there who actually believes meditation is some kind of magic wand that just "smooths out" your emotions, or that sitting in silence will eventually lead to this permanent state of pure bliss and comfort—honestly, where have you been? It’s pretty clear you haven't actually done the work! Does anyone really think life becomes a seamless, peaceful glide just because you closed your eyes for twenty minutes? Not a chance!

I can't believe I'm actually sitting here typing this out, but honestly, isn't it just wild how much things change when you finally decide to take that leap? I’ve been thinking about this for what feels like an eternity, staring at my screen and wondering if I was actually ready to make a move. But hey, life is too short to sit on the sidelines, right? There’s this specific feeling you get—that mix of pure adrenaline and absolute terror—when you realize you're standing on the edge of something huge. It’s like being at the top of a roller coaster at Six Flags, just waiting for that first drop. You know it's going to be intense, you know it might make your stomach flip, but wouldn't you be bored if you just stayed parked in the station forever? I kept looking at all the "what ifs" and letting them cloud my judgment. What if I fail? What if I'm not prepared? But then I realized: if I don't try, haven't I already failed by default? It's such a simple concept, yet it's so incredibly hard to wrap your head around when you're in the thick of it! Anyway, I am just so pumped to finally be moving forward. It feels like a massive weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Does anyone else ever feel like they're just waiting for permission to start their own lives? Because I'm officially giving myself the green light! Let's go! kaže:
I’ve honestly been fascinated for quite some time now by that whole sense of grandiosity and sheer overconfidence you tend to project, placidharbor7! Don't get me wrong, I'm just observing, but isn't it something? You really do have a way of carrying yourself with such flair!

Honestly, what we’re looking at here is just pure, unadulterated ignorance! Isn't it wild how people can be so completely disconnected from the facts?

Honestly, isn't that just pure childishness? It’s like we're dealing with someone who hasn't quite grown up yet!

Blue Bird! Is there anything more iconic than that little splash of color streaking through the sky? I was just sitting on my porch this morning, sipping some coffee, when I spotted one of those beautiful little guys darting through the trees. It honestly made my entire day! Doesn't it just strike you as amazing how much joy such a tiny creature can bring to a backyard? You find yourself holding your breath, just hoping they’ll land on a branch nearby for a second so you can admire them. It’s those little moments of pure, unadulterated nature that really make life sweet, don't you think? Truly, what could be better than a bright blue visitor to remind us to slow down and enjoy the view? kaže:
Ever wonder if there’s a better way to explain things? Sometimes, a simple analogy just hits differently, doesn't it? It’s like when you’re trying to explain a complex technical glitch to someone who isn't tech-savvy—instead of drowning them in jargon about motherboards and voltage, you just compare it to a clogged drain in a kitchen sink. Suddenly, everything clicks! I’ve always felt that finding the right comparison is an art form in itself. It bridges the gap between "I have no clue what you're talking about" and "Oh, I totally get it now!" Isn't that the whole point of good communication? To make the complicated feel easy and the distant feel close? I'd love to hear how you all tackle this—do you rely on metaphors, or do you prefer getting straight to the point? Think about it this way: the universe was designed with a certain kind of symmetry, wasn't it? There's a reason people say "as above, so below." We were crafted to mirror that same cosmic order! Because of that, why do we spend all our energy trying to penetrate deeper and deeper into the external world, constantly chasing something out there? Why push against the fabric of reality when the answers aren't waiting in some far-off corner of the galaxy? Isn't it much more logical to simply descend inward? To dive deep into our own souls to find what we're looking for? That’s really the heart of it, isn't it? Whether you call it meditation, religion, or just a quiet moment of reflection, the real journey is always an internal one.

But based on what kind of experience we're talking about here? Seriously, what's the baseline we're looking at?
You really can't beat hands-on experience when it comes to understanding how things actually work! Isn't it true that true insight always has to come before you can even begin to make a meaningful comparison? You have to live it, feel it, and master it first if you ever want to draw an accurate analogy. Otherwise, aren't you just guessing?

Edward Flores4 said:

If you actually knew what you were hunting for in such a promising venture, you’d be the very first customer for the Truth Seeker—that buffoonish fellow.

Wouldn't that just be the dream? To be surrounded by people who are just dim enough that you could play the role of their resident guru?

Well... what can you do? Life's a struggle. It seems big ambitions always travel with a sidekick of total incompetence. The harder you try to act like a Master, the more obvious it becomes that you aren't even qualified to be an apprentice.

I've been fascinated by your sheer pretentiousness and arrogance for quite some time now... I mean, choosing a modest nickname like "Master John" is a truly "masterful" move. It's that classic kind of wisdom—completely lacking any shred of actual humility. Your ego is practically biblical in scale... oops, sorry... let's say your ego is more like a massive corporate controller... anyway, the size of your aspirations is perfectly proportional to your inability to see how ridiculous it is—your little crusade to claim a Zen throne and build a following out of thin air.

Look, not everyone is cut out for everything... maybe you should just pick up a shovel instead. Honestly, people might actually admire you if you just rolled up your sleeves and did some real manual labor, rather than trying to plow through this thick fog of your own delusions.

Resistance is futile. You are now officially assimilated 😍

Well, it all starts with fascination, doesn't it? Especially when you're dealing with an unassuming truth seeker.

Edward Flores4 said:Here he goes again. Seeing as he’s clearly not getting any traction with actual, meaningful conversation, he’s finally decided to pick a fight with his own "supervisor." Honestly, maybe he can try selling him a massive cloud of pure nonsense—it might be his only shot at finding a buyer since nobody else is biting. 😁

If you actually knew what you were looking for in such a promising venture, wouldn't you be the very first person to buy from placidharbor7, you stubborn truth seeker?

placidharbor7 said:Think about it—how and why would anyone ever be drawn to meditation in the first place? What were they actually searching for in such a promising practice, and what kind of analogies or lived experiences led them there?

And then there's the big question: does the thing they actually set out to achieve really happen because of our funny little concept of "free will," or is it something else entirely?
If you haven't tried it yet, the mystery of meditation can only be grasped by paying incredibly close attention to the thoughts and actions flowing through the practice—both from an evolutionary standpoint and on a deeply personal level.

But once you've actually done the work? You won't need to interpret a single word.

placidharbor7 said:Is meditation just a set of techniques, some "asanas," a way to practice "control" or "non-control," a specific "lifestyle," or something else entirely?
Before we dive in, let's first establish what it definitely isn't.

Think about it—how and why would anyone ever be drawn to meditation in the first place? What were they actually searching for in such a promising practice, and what kind of analogies or lived experiences led them there?

Edward Flores4 said:Look, schizophrenia is a nasty business. It doesn't always leave a physical bruise, which makes it incredibly hard to pin down. Honestly, I think most educated people deal with a mild version of it, but sometimes things spiral out of control—that's when you find yourself "chatting with the controller."

Thanks for the input, "master," but I'll pass. If you actually stumbled upon the truth by accident, it clearly took a toll on you. You're stuck using this childish, poorly translated pseudo-wisdom from some Eastern guru, you have the temperament of a toddler, you seem to view "discussion" as an abstract concept rather than a practice, and the only thing you're actually capable of is calling yourself a MASTER.

Around here, we just call that being arrogant and overambitious. But hey, feel free to call yourself whatever you want—Master Larry... who gives a shit? 😁

ps: give my regards to the controller when you see him, and if I can offer one bit of advice... maybe don't bring up the controller during your next check-up at the doctor's office. 😉

Exactly! You hit the nail right on the head. That's the only way to look at it.

jademarlin26 said:Setting aside your invisible friend and that Eastern psychopathology regarding an obsession with authority, tell me: what does meditation actually mean to you?

Is meditation just a set of techniques, some "asanas," a way to practice "control" or "non-control," a specific "lifestyle," or something else entirely?
Before we dive in, let's first establish what it definitely isn't.

Edward Flores4 said:Look... I truly respect the effort you're putting in to boost your own self-esteem here, but honestly, I have no clue how to help you 🤷

The thing is—after I sat down and wrote that massive essay tackling this exact issue, pointing out the whole "controller" dilemma (using Krishnamurti as my guide), all in an attempt to show people how impossible it is to touch the tip of your finger with the tip of that very same finger... (yeah, that's the metaphor for the controller, by the way)
After I practically broke my back trying to explain that meditation is a way of living, not some kind of "self-control" over thoughts that just surge up spontaneously—thoughts that are IMPOSSIBLE to control... You come back to me asking (for the nth time!) who the controller is!?!? 🤷

I’ll kick myself in the butt if you're actually being serious here... honestly. What else can I say besides... get a grip on yourself, if you even can. 🤣

You're throwing a question at me that I already laid out in this thread over a month or two ago, and now you expect me to take you seriously. Man, stop chasing the fog and pick up a shovel... leave some actual mark of your existence behind... even if it's just a footprint in the field. ☕

But honestly, isn't that exactly what you've been doing this whole time?

Meditation isn't just a "way of life," truth seeker. Without a legitimate MASTER, it’s going to take you a lifetime for that realization to travel from your toes to your brain.

A MASTER is someone who actually understands the "controller." You aren't going to find that guidance from some guru like J. Krishnamurti, and you certainly won't find it by stumbling around blindly on your own.

Edward Flores4 said:Oh... well, that’s actually exactly what I’ve been doing this whole time. See, my specialty lies in spotting fake prophets, wannabe enlightened types, arrogant preachers, self-proclaimed gurus, spiritual grifters, and ego-driven snake oil salesmen.

As you can tell, I’m pretty damn good at my job—considering about 90% of my posts seem to match the verbal and argumentative depth of a three-year-old (this one included). 😁

So, why don't you take your own advice for once and start doing something you actually excel at? Because, if I’m being honest, your "spiritual guru" act isn't quite hitting the mark... I've run into much more convincing con artists than you. Your approach is pretty shallow, and honestly, it's completely lacking charisma. ☕

And as for that sweater with your little bumper sticker axiom about questioning things from a place of ignorance... I think I'll leave that to a professional. When I give gifts... I do them with style. Just let me know when your birthday is. 😉

So, here we go again! This "third-grader" is asking you for the twelfth time in a row: WHO (during meditation) is actually in charge of the "Controller"?
Are you going to play the brave, grown-up little boy again and dodge the question with more nonsense? Honestly, you’re incredibly good at that—especially when you dress it up in that fancy act of being an expert on the mysteries of meditation, both in general and specifically.

Just like Krishnamurti found the Living Truth, you’ll find that spotting fake prophets is just as much of a struggle. Keep flipping through those picture books, you truth seeker; you won't find any real Masters in there.