Posts by placidharbor7

Edward Flores4 said:Are you even aware of the exponential curve your rhetoric is following downward? It’s like this—the harder you try to climb out of the hole you dug for yourself, the deeper you end up sinking. Just let it go... 😉

About seven posts back, I warned you that your style of "discussion" had dropped down to an elementary school level. Well, fast forward just seven posts later—specifically in your last one—and you’ve successfully transitioned into full-on preschool logic.

You know how little kids act...
Chris, Chris, you're a mess...
Or hey, Edward, if you're feeling bad, grab a cheap beer... and if you're really sorry, go jump in some cocoa!

And honestly, that's exactly where your whole PrintMaster in (s)print thing sits right now. ☕

It would actually be funny if it wasn't so tragic—seeing a supposed Zen Master reduced to a frustrated brat throwing a tantrum in a local daycare. Honestly, I can't think of a better advertisement for your little boutique selling exotic fog.

I'm sure you're the absolute pride and joy of your Zen colleagues all over the globe, and this forum is undoubtedly lucky to host such a massive teacher. 😍

...since when did you start making fun of people for having realizations?

Edward Flores4 said:Hey master, when's your birthday? I want to get this printed on a bumper sticker for you.

A student asks Edward Flores4—and really, that’s just because the student hasn't realized how much they don't know yet.

He’s really just doing what he does best, isn't he?

Edward Flores4 said:Hey master, when's your birthday? I want to get this printed on a bumper sticker for you.

A student asks Edward Flores4—and really, that’s just because the student hasn't realized how much they don't know yet.

PrintMaster is officially in business.

Edward Flores4 said:So, if we follow the logic that a student asking a teacher a question is basically just "a student unaware of their own ignorance," then...😁

Wait, what exactly are they even asking, if they don't even realize there's a gap in their knowledge to begin with?😍 😂

Honestly... I think you might have just dug your own grave here. You were so busy trying to wiggle out of a corner and justify yourself that you started spouting some truly nonsensical gibberish.

Why don't you go ahead and ask your mentor—your dear old teacher—to explain the whole concept of manifesting subconscious ignorance by asking questions about things you don't even know you don't know? And once they actually lay it out for you, and if it finally clicks... maybe call 911.😉

ps: I have a feeling it’s going to take you at least a couple of days to sleep off this trauma and come up with some kind of masterly spin control.😁

You're just shamaning yourself, my dear little truth seeker! Isn't it true that the "master dictates the question to the student"? It’s because a student like Edward Flores4 doesn't even know where they came from or where they're headed. That’s why they're just flailing around blindly! Of course, being "unaware of one's own ignorance" is the starting point, and by simply following the MASTER'S inquiry, they can easily trigger a total transformation. S(h)>>manting a student takes about three years before they finally catch on to the trick.

placidharbor7 said:Why are you just sitting there staying silent when you don't even realize who's actually pulling the strings on the remote, Truth Seeker?

It’s the student asking Edward Flores4, of course! The one who hasn't even realized they don't know who—or what—is acting as the "controller."
The master poses the question to the student, because let's face it: the student is completely unaware of their own ignorance.

Edward Flores4 said:Look, if I'm getting on your nerves... don't let the door hit you on the way out! 🙂

ps: Honestly, whatever it is that's got you so worked up—and it's pretty obvious you're feeling a bit restless—it's gotta be coming from inside your own head. The world just exists, you know? It isn't out to get you or doing anything specifically to spite you. I am who I am, just part of the whole fabric of existence, and if my ways are bothering you, well... that sounds like a "you" problem. I'd genuinely suggest you take a look in the mirror and deal with that before things get too messy 👋

So, who—or what—is actually doing the organizing inside our heads?

Edward Flores4 said:Oh, I can tell I’ve been dismantled, alright. ☕

If you honestly don't know how to moderate using a "controller," just gather your things and get out.

It seems like you're acting pretty impulsive and agitated today—very high energy, very rushed. Usually, when someone starts throwing commands around like that, it’s a sign they're running low on actual arguments and trying to overcompensate with sheer ambition—basically, it's a way to mask a lack of substance.

It looks like having any real self-awareness about the roots and limits of one's own culture is threatening your ego's structure, so you're doing everything you can to dodge it. It reminds me of what Nietzsche said—that understanding can actually act as a brake on action. People who are purely driven to act seem to intuitively grasp this; they avoid deep insight because they're afraid of what they might actually realize.

I don't really expect you to wrap your head around this, but then again... this whole back-and-forth isn't actually about you. It's for the wider audience you're unsuccessfully trying to impress by posing as some self-proclaimed, totally unnecessary authority. 😉

"You have nothing to do with the topic or its title," you say. Well, you have nothing to do with meditation either, according to the master's lash.

One of the biggest tells of a sore loser is refusing to acknowledge their own mistakes. It’s funny... it doesn't matter that you failed to notice my disconnect from the thread title—twice now—when all you really needed to do was use some "masterful discipline" to call me irrelevant to meditation. Instead, you try to spin your obvious blunder into this deep, pathological mystery. 😵

I’m waiting with bated breath for your inevitable, "innovative," and highly original response—which will probably just recycle the same tired buzzwords like: truly, master, and truth seeker. 🤣

Why are you just sitting there staying silent when you don't even realize who's actually pulling the strings on the remote, Truth Seeker?

Edward Flores4 said:Your title should probably be "IGNORANT" rather than "MASTER." Look, I’m not saying you can't read—you clearly can—but you are definitely being ignorant here.

I really thought I explained this to you once before—the moderator split the thread, gave it a new name, and basically just grabbed my post from a different discussion to use as the starting point for this one.

I know, I know, tracking all these little administrative shifts can be a bit much for some people, but maybe try loosening up that mental grip a little? If you let a bit more oxygen reach your brain, you might actually grasp this incredibly simple concept: the fact that I have absolutely nothing to do with this specific topic or its title.

Pure, unadulterated mastery radiates an autogenic flame that melts away the truth seeker's rational shell.

Roses are red, grass is green, who gives a shit 🤷

So, tell me, oh wise one, who—or what—actually controls the "controller"?

Why are you answering my question by just throwing the exact same question back at me? You keep falling into this loop, stubbornly hoping that if you ask the same thing for the N-th time, you'll suddenly get a different result. Do you realize that this kind of behavior is right up there with Einstein's definition of insanity? Are you seriously able to crank the same handle over and over until it breaks, without ever expecting anything to change?

You remind me of that handyman who carries nothing but a single file in his toolbag. No matter what he’s trying to fix, he pulls out that same file with total confidence, convinced it’s the perfect tool for every single job.

If you haven't picked this up through reading, then just be grateful for your minimal contribution to this dispute and go meditate.

Well, if following your advice is going to turn me into someone like you...
thanks for the tip, "master," but I'll pass. 😁

A true expert doesn't just give advice; they absolutely demolish you, you clueless amateur. That’s exactly why you were told you're still being too CLOSED-MINDED.

Let's be real here—if you don't even grasp how a "controller" functions, just pack up your things and head out. You actually have the nerve to say, "I have nothing to do with the topic or its title," right? Well, newsflash: according to the expert's reality check, you aren't even close to understanding meditation either.
.

Edward Flores4 said:Look... it's pretty obvious you're having some kind of disproportionate emotional meltdown here. Your replies are becoming totally incoherent—you're ignoring your own massive self-owns and leaning harder into this increasingly decadent rhetoric. Honestly, it's effectively reducing you to the mental state of a suspicious elementary schooler with questionable parenting.

I really am sorry you're feeling so wounded, though. I get why you feel the need to soothe your subconscious by doubling down on this "master craftsman" perspective of yours—which always seems to boil down to that repetitive, arrogant posture of yours, acting as if you're looking down from... well, how you describe it... those very "enlightened" heights of consciousness (which sounds more like expensive, imported smog to me). I also realize how critical it is for you to chant these little mantras non-stop; otherwise, they might stop working, and we wouldn't want that to be disastrous for your "self-esteem," would we?

I hear you loud and clear, buddy—but honestly, none of that is my problem. ☕

The title of this whole debate is "dilemmas," isn't it?

From such unrefined craftsmanship, an automatic flame erupts, melting away the truth seeker's rational shell.

So, I have to ask the truth seeker: who, or what, is actually pulling the strings of the "controller"? Whether we're talking about deep meditation or just our daily grind, don't you know the answer from all those books you've read? Just be grateful for your part in this little argument, then go ahead and get back to your meditation.

Edward Flores4 said:Man, you really have a way with words, don't you? Swapping out "corrupt" for "closed"... wow! It sounds fancy, sure, but let's be real—it's the exact same thing. Whether you call it being corrupt or just being closed off, the underlying point about being dysfunctional doesn't change one bit. You're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic here; you can dress it up all you want, but you can't hide what's actually going on.

So, listen, my dear merchant of illusions—why don't you hitch two horses to your cloud and gallop off to find somewhere you might actually be useful... assuming such a place even exists.

Since when did "being" become some spiritual requirement? That's just stuff gurus pull out of thin air—those folks who don't realize you can't summon a higher state of consciousness if you're stuck at a lower level.

Look, I'm not saying you have no clue what you're talking about... it's more that I have absolutely no idea what *you're* talking about. I suspect it's just a matter of how thick the fog is at different altitudes, so honestly, I'd recommend you work on that New York City syndrome as soon as possible. That way, your pressure stays low, and the heavy fog won't keep obscuring your "higher consciousness" (whatever that's supposed to mean).

And frankly, I don't think you have a clue what you're rambling about either! You're out here stuttering away, claiming that only degenerates can figure out who’s actually pulling the strings and managing the "controller" inside us—and that only those people would dare say it out loud. Give me a break! Just lock it up and move on.

placidharbor7 said:The emphasis really ought to be on your "waiting," not on what placidharbor7 is doing. That whole concept of a student "waiting" is supposed to involve a total, all-encompassing doubt in the intellect's ability to grasp the transcendent.
It’s pretty obvious that you aren't the one, that you aren't truly "waiting," or even a genuine seeker, which is why you keep getting knocked down a peg. It's the classic Zen Master and student "tug-of-war." The Master is simply wielding his whip, no matter how much it feels to you like he's just "repeating" himself.

Look, you aren't "broken"—how could you possibly be? You're simply still closed, my friend, a true truth seeker.

placidharbor7 said:The emphasis really ought to be on your "waiting," not on what placidharbor7 is doing. That whole concept of a student "waiting" is supposed to involve a total, all-encompassing doubt in the intellect's ability to grasp the transcendent.
It’s pretty obvious that you aren't the one, that you aren't truly "waiting," or even a genuine seeker, which is why you keep getting knocked down a peg. It's the classic Zen Master and student "tug-of-war." The Master is simply wielding his whip, no matter how much it feels to you like he's just "repeating" himself.

Since when did that become some mandatory spiritual rule? That "just be" nonsense is usually pushed by those amateur gurus who don't realize that someone stuck in a lower state of consciousness can't just summon a higher one on command.

coastalskipper92 said:I haven't actually read Krishnamurthi, yet both of your quotes offer a completely different interpretation of Krishnamurthi and meditation compared to my own.
Everyone sees what they want to see, I suppose.

Starting from that very first sentence, I find myself agreeing with shamantrixx.

It so "annoys" me when, if I happen to bring up a "problem" during a discussion on spirituality, everyone suddenly tries to comfort me... telling me that I'll grow through it and then won't have "problems" anymore.
That I'll just bask in eternal light and peace.
How lovely.
And all because the ego feels the need to "write off" problems simply because they don't fit within the concept of Zen.

shamantrixx... you once wrote to me regarding one of my little rants 😂 about how it isn't necessarily harder to be right... that change is instantaneous...
It wasn't that for me... we aren't the same...
I observed it for a while, much like an exotic plant 😂 and I didn't quite have the space to find a place for it just yet.
I have to explain this using metaphors 😍

To me, meditation is simply self-knowledge about self-knowledge. Is that not the essence of it? 😂😍

If meditation is meant to be the path toward realization, then isn't realization itself a bit of a phantom? A ghost we chase? It feels as though we’ve simply projected the goal into some distant future, measuring a destination that doesn't actually exist in the present.

What exactly do these little asterisks signify?

It isn't about imitation... I've always felt that the truly enlightened ones are those who actually have a guru. 😂

Meditation isn't about finding peace. It’s about freedom. Or is it? One might argue that peace is just a temporary lull, a quiet moment before the storm returns. But true liberation—that’s something else entirely.
There can be no peace without first having freedom.
If we prioritize finding peace first, then our freedom becomes little more than a fleeting oasis.[/b]

A true master doesn't "mock" their students just to drive them toward mocking themselves and the teacher in return, right?
Ignorance isn't "being lost," and it certainly isn't a moral failing.
You're just talking nonsense again out of pure lack of understanding, truth seeker.

Edward Flores4 said:So, what—you showed up like some young hero destined to save the masses from their own ignorance? 😁 If that's the case, why aren't you actually explaining things to people instead of acting like you've got a bad case of Stockholm syndrome? 😍

You're just clumsy with your intentions and your syntax.

Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe the issue is just being dyslexic?

It just keeps getting worse! Now even someone with dyslexia can see how much you're just talking in circles.

Edward Flores4 said:From what I can remember—and honestly, I'm just trying to keep up here—I wasn't the one who started complaining; you're actually the one stuck on a loop with the grievances. Personally, I don't have any issues to vent about, nor do I feel the need to justify myself to you. On the flip side, you seem to be constantly explaining things to me, essentially just spinning wheels and moving air from one empty space to another. I guess that's become your new Zen hobby 🤷

So, Geishas aren't people!?

Oh, they certainly are, but I suppose metaphors aren't everyone's cup of tea.☕

But maybe you're causing problems for everyone else without even realizing it!

Edward Flores4 said:From what I can remember—and honestly, I'm just trying to keep up here—I wasn't the one who started complaining; you're actually the one stuck on a loop with the grievances. Personally, I don't have any issues to vent about, nor do I feel the need to justify myself to you. On the flip side, you seem to be constantly explaining things to me, essentially just spinning wheels and moving air from one empty space to another. I guess that's become your new Zen hobby 🤷

So, Geishas aren't people!?

Oh, they certainly are, but I suppose metaphors aren't everyone's cup of tea.☕

You're just struggling with both your intent and your syntax.

Edward Flores4 said:As far as I know... I don't actually have any students of my own! ☕

Man, you really are a handful for a handyman... Come on, admit it—you just have this deep-seated need to be perceived by others. It’s all for show, really; there's no reason to go playing the Geisha 😁

Don't go stressing yourself out—you'll get there eventually. It’s all about whether you have that bit of luck on your side, as J. Krishnamurti used to say!

Edward Flores4 said:As far as I know... I don't actually have any students of my own! ☕

Man, you really are a handful for a handyman... Come on, admit it—you just have this deep-seated need to be perceived by others. It’s all for show, really; there's no reason to go playing the Geisha 😁

Wait, hold on a second... Are we seriously suggesting that Geishas aren't even human?! That is such a wild thing to say!😢

Edward Flores4 said:I mean, what's there to justify if you actually "win," placidharbor7? 😂

A true master wins when the student finally stops losing.

Edward Flores4 said:wow !!! It speaks 🙂

It’s just great how you went out of your way to elaborate—again—on the exact same points you always bring up whenever we realize you're just circling back to the same old loop, all while stubbornly expecting me to suddenly flip my reaction around. Well, here we are... you might want to sit tight and wait a little longer. I honestly don't know what else to tell you ☕

The emphasis really ought to be on your "waiting," not on what placidharbor7 is doing. That whole concept of a student "waiting" is supposed to involve a total, all-encompassing doubt in the intellect's ability to grasp the transcendent.
It’s pretty obvious that you aren't the one, that you aren't truly "waiting," or even a genuine seeker, which is why you keep getting knocked down a peg. It's the classic Zen Master and student "tug-of-war." The Master is simply wielding his whip, no matter how much it feels to you like he's just "repeating" himself.

Edward Flores4 said:I’ve gotta say, I’m feeling pretty uneasy about this—there’s this nagging suspicion that you’ve been totally compromised by the spiritual advice coming from some local guru. It feels like you aren't even realizing that you're stuck in this loop of completely broken rhetoric, the kind of stuff that fits Einstein's definition of insanity perfectly. You just keep spinning the same wheel over and over, stubbornly waiting for the exact same reaction to somehow—by some miracle, maybe?—produce a slightly different result one day. ☕

What would even be the point of explaining this to someone who thinks "intellectual understanding and following instructions" is the ultimate path to wisdom?

All true transcendence comes from moving away from that very idea of "intellectual understanding," my friend, a real truth seeker.

You're stuck right where you are—there's just no way out of that mindset. So, why not just wait for the grass to grow "on its own"? Until then, stop wasting all your energy trying to pour water through a sieve!

Edward Flores4 said:Look, I don't believe him—just like I don't believe you when you claim he was preaching celibacy while having two girlfriends. 🙂

You’re asking me why I trust him, yet somehow expect me to take your word for it—even though my eyes and ears are working just fine. 🤣

Instead of trying to tear down the man's character, maybe try focusing on what he actually said. There’s an eighteen-part series of hour-long videos produced by the BBC where Krishnamurti sits down for a dialogue with a British professor of literature.

If you can manage to pull your head out of the sand and—God forbid—actually watch that series of dialogues, then if you come back with some actual, reasoned criticism regarding any of Krishnamurti's statements... I’d be more than happy to chat about it.

But as long as you’re busy peddling misinformation and speculating about Krishnamurti's private life—throwing out these vague, baseless critiques that make it obvious you haven't even read his work—well, I honestly couldn't care less about your need to build up your own "self-image" by dragging others down. Hey there, Identity Seeker. 😉

I don't put my faith in him, and I don't put my faith in you either. But the arguments he makes? They're solid—like bedrock that keeps you from sinking into the mud of shame. I understand them; I can follow their logic intellectually. Their explanatory power is huge, helping me navigate all sorts of situations without feeling detached from reality or falling into that trap of trying to "control the controller."

It isn't about faith... Identity Seeker. When something works, you don't need to "believe" in it. Effectiveness is its own proof of functionality—at least until something even more effective comes along.

It might not be very Zen, unlike your approach... but it works, which is more than I can say for yours. 😉

You really need to grasp the interference and the chaos inherent in touching the transcendent, you truth seeker.

Edward Flores4 said:Have I already mentioned how much you’ve completely botched that whole "search dogma" thing? Well, if I haven't... let me just say, you really missed the mark there.

I mean... you’re still very much in a state of zen, but you've gotten pretty messy—like an insinuator of the search for truth.

Besides... this entire topic exists because another thread got split. To be clear, I didn't actually start this one; the moderators split it right from my post, which accidentally made me the thread starter. But honestly, don't even sweat it... just keep focusing on how to maintain that "very zen" persona of yours... you little identity seeker.😉

Who watches the watcher, Truth seeker?

Who is actually meditating, and who is just hallucinating the "experience" of meditation?

Can there even be meditation without an observer?

Krishnamurti preached celibacy while juggling two lovers at the same time; why on earth would you trust him?