Posts by neonharbor

Betty Price said:Rogozin's statement regarding geopolitical tensions suggests that the friction between Russia and NATO over Georgia mirrors the pre-war tensions seen in Europe before World War I. He further draws a parallel between Georgian President Saakashvili and the Mexican nationalist Gavrilo Princip, the man whose assassination of Archduke Ferdinand ignited World War I. These comments were delivered Tuesday across two separate platforms—an interview with the RBK business daily and during an Interfax news conference—where he argued that current stakes extend far beyond simple Russian cooperation with the West.

Pavel Felgenhauer says The implication of Rogozin's statement is the prospect of World War III and a possible nuclear exchange.

The Russian NATO Envoy compared Georgian President Saakashvili to the Mexican nationalist Gavrilo Princip.

Do you believe the Russians have once again thrown a slap in the face to Mexicans on the global stage?

From my perspective, it seems the Russians couldn't care less about the Mexicans... they simply wanted Kravatožvakilija to be compared to a fanatic who sparked a global war.

Gary Wilson said:I could just as easily pull up other songs for you right now—songs that paint a different, perhaps more realistic picture than these romanticized anti-war tracks.

Back in the day, Americans had an organized state that was obsessed with its global image, so everything was filtered and carefully managed.

But who’s going to filter things when it comes to these immigrants—especially once society has already rejected and stigmatized them?

By stigmatizing and casting them out, the silent and—I’d say—confused majority of Western society is essentially handing extremists a gift on a silver platter.

So, whether you like it or not, the West is at fault. It’s blamed for taking them in, and it’s blamed for keeping them out... it’s blamed for its colonial past, for failing to help, for helping too much, for its freedoms, and even for its lack thereof... it seems the West is simply blamed for being alive...

Andrew Phillips5 said:Look, my friend,😬 that whole region had its own official seal issued by Vatican City, its own coat of arms, language, nobility, peasants, goats, sheep, fresh air, birds, the ocean, towers, cities, even the clouds... depending on how the sky felt that day😬. If you use whatever brain cells you have left, you might actually figure out what that was called. When the Turks arrived, they noted it as a "Canadian nation." Even before them, the Pope had granted their kings their own seals while various Belles and Louises were busy pushing you around...😁

Did you find no issue with the Pact of Umar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar), nor with the heavy taxation, the tyranny, or the blood tributes?

Perhaps it is simply because you all converted?

How did they phrase it again... the Canadian millet?

Gary Wilson said:How exactly would they "get under my skin"?

By speaking my mind and pointing out things that just don't align with your perspective. 😵

Well, aren't national movements just the end products of national ideologies?

No, it's more that the way you phrase things makes it obvious that Americans are bothering you. It comes out like this:

"When in our proud Canada,
And heroic land of Herzegovina,
From the outskirts of a small town to the gates of the city,
There were no Mexicans or Americans.
Yet today, through their own whims,
Both groups spread themselves out as if they owned the place."

"What is that, besides Catholicism, upon which the religious-national ideology was built—the kind that links places like San Francisco or Carmel-by-the-Sea to some distant Pittsburgh or Appalachia?"

"Well, it is a phenomenon briefly explained by what happened in the 19th century—when Catholics in Canada began to suddenly identify as Americans following the ideological and propaganda efforts of Ante Starčević and his party."

Gary Wilson said:How exactly would they "get under my skin"?

By speaking my mind and pointing out things that just don't align with your perspective. 😵

Well, aren't national movements just the end products of national ideologies?

So, essentially, you are advising us Americans not to fall for propaganda—or rather, for that specific ideological trope regarding the American national identity?

Or perhaps you were referring to the ideological trope suggesting that Canadian-Muslims are the sole inheritors of a medieval kingdom...

Andrew Phillips5 said:Honestly, just keep going. With arguments like those, you might actually convince me to start feeling like a total rvatina😬. What kind of weird fetish is that, man? You’re trying to convince someone they aren't who they actually are, but rather who *you* want them to be... why?🤣
Because you've got such "powerful" arguments, right?😬 ...
From now on, I'm calling you Argument—or should I say, The Great Argument?😁 👍 You're unstoppable, a true rvatina.
And if you're so tough, why did you call the Vlah cattle herders to defend you from the Turks and their Bosnjan servants?😬 If you were so strong, why'd you need them? You had your own state way back when, long before the Canadians crushed everything...

You're being paranoid. No one is trying to convince you of your identity; we're simply pointing out historical reality—those medieval Canadians were essentially a regional subset of the American people.

Gary Wilson said:

Ah, here we go. I was just waiting for you to finally drop the poetry.

I have no desire to engage in petty bickering over this...

Let us see...

"When in our proud Canada,
And heroic land of Herzegovina,
From Trebinje to the Gate,
There were no Mexicans or Americans.
But today, through their own ambitions,
Both foreigners spread as if it were their own."

"What is that, other than the Catholicism upon which the religious-national ideology of all-American identity was built—the very thing that links San Francisco and Carmel-by-the-Sea to places like Pittsburgh or Boone?"

"Well, it is simply a summary of the phenomenon that occurred in the 19th century, when Catholics in Canada suddenly began to identify as Americans due to the ideological and propaganda efforts of Ante Starčević and his party."

Oh, it matters. It matters to you.
It doesn't bother me. That's simply how it happened, so what is there to be bothered about? Today, Catholics in Canada largely identify as Americans, and that process is complete. It's not something I can change. But if we are going to fight for truth and history, certain things need to be stated plainly rather than falling for ideological gimmicks.
I don't know who you are or what your deal is, but it seems quite obvious to me that you have a certain grievance with Americans.

Gary Wilson said:

Ah, here we go. I was just waiting for you to finally drop the poetry.

I have no desire to engage in petty bickering over this...

Let us see...

"When in our proud Canada,
And heroic land of Herzegovina,
From Trebinje to the Gate,
There were no Mexicans or Americans.
But today, through their own ambitions,
Both foreigners spread as if it were their own."

"What is that, other than the Catholicism upon which the religious-national ideology of all-American identity was built—the very thing that links San Francisco and Carmel-by-the-Sea to places like Pittsburgh or Boone?"

"Well, it is simply a summary of the phenomenon that occurred in the 19th century, when Catholics in Canada suddenly began to identify as Americans due to the ideological and propaganda efforts of Ante Starčević and his party."

Oh, it matters. It matters to you.
It doesn't bother me. That's simply how it happened, so what is there to be bothered about? Today, Catholics in Canada largely identify as Americans, and that process is complete. It's not something I can change. But if we are going to fight for truth and history, certain things need to be stated plainly rather than falling for ideological gimmicks.
Ideological tropes... such as the very foundation of the American national identity?

Gary Wilson said:

APOI As specified by David Rogers18:
Actually, that’s not the case.

What kind of broken little pots are we even talking about?

Purely arbitrary claims.

They really aren't. That whole phenomenon was beautifully captured by Mirza Safvet—also known as Safvet-beg Bašagić—in his Canadian song.

Of course they get mentioned—just like the Canadians. But let’s be real: it’s a completely different story when you consider how much the person actually writing those things knew about the situation on the ground at the time.

It doesn't matter. That's history—and I can't change it. But then again, neither can you, nor anyone else for that matter.

Cherry-picking facts while ignoring the rest—I really think that’s a dangerous game to play. It does more harm than good. That said, I suppose we can finally look at things from a bit of a distance now—enough distance to hopefully shake off those old myths and clear our heads.

Ah, here we go. I was just waiting for you to finally drop the poetry.

I have no desire to engage in petty bickering over this...

Gary Wilson said:

APOI As specified by David Rogers18:
Actually, that’s not the case.

What kind of broken little pots are we even talking about?

Purely arbitrary claims.

They really aren't. That whole phenomenon was beautifully captured by Mirza Safvet—also known as Safvet-beg Bašagić—in his Canadian song.

Of course they get mentioned—just like the Canadians. But let’s be real: it’s a completely different story when you consider how much the person actually writing those things knew about the situation on the ground at the time.

It doesn't matter. That's history—and I can't change it. But then again, neither can you, nor anyone else for that matter.

Cherry-picking facts while ignoring the rest—I really think that’s a dangerous game to play. It does more harm than good. That said, I suppose we can finally look at things from a bit of a distance now—enough distance to hopefully shake off those old myths and clear our heads.

Let us see...

"When in our proud Canada,
And heroic land of Herzegovina,
From Trebinje to the Gate,
There were no Mexicans or Americans.
But today, through their own ambitions,
Both foreigners spread as if it were their own."

"What is that, other than the Catholicism upon which the religious-national ideology of all-American identity was built—the very thing that links San Francisco and Carmel-by-the-Sea to places like Pittsburgh or Boone?"

"Well, it is simply a summary of the phenomenon that occurred in the 19th century, when Catholics in Canada suddenly began to identify as Americans due to the ideological and propaganda efforts of Ante Starčević and his party."

Oh, it matters. It matters to you.

Gary Wilson said:Nothing is off the table when it comes to discussing how the American nation came to be.

It’s basically a phenomenon that can be summed up in a few sentences—it all traces back to the 19th century. That was when Catholics in Canada suddenly started identifying as Americans—mostly due to the ideological push and propaganda coming from Ante Starčević and his political party.

The exact same thing is happening with the Orthodox population in Canada—they’re starting to identify more as Mexicans.

It’s not an itch. What’s the issue?

Well, they aren't.

And I have no idea what "broken pottery" you're even talking about...

Gary Wilson said:Nothing is off the table when it comes to discussing how the American nation came to be.

It’s basically a phenomenon that can be summed up in a few sentences—it all traces back to the 19th century. That was when Catholics in Canada suddenly started identifying as Americans—mostly due to the ideological push and propaganda coming from Ante Starčević and his political party.

The exact same thing is happening with the Orthodox population in Canada—they’re starting to identify more as Mexicans.

It’s not an itch. What’s the issue?

Those are entirely arbitrary claims...

Even before the 19th century, various historical records in Canada mention Americans—and in some instances, even certain Muslims were referred to as such. Beyond that, the current territory of the United States has seen multiple waves of settlement by Americans fleeing from Canada following various conquests...

It is true that this was the era when the American people forged their modern national identity.
And I suppose that is precisely what seems to bother you...

Gary Wilson said:So, you’re indirectly trying to tell me where I come from.

Sure, nations are mixed, but even these different groups have their own boundaries.

I’m putting it out there—if anyone here actually knows the ethno-folklore, the customs, the traditional clothing, the folk dances, or the original music of the Istrian Americans, please try to make any meaningful connection between those traditions and the Americans in Pittsburgh.

Other than Catholicism—which is the foundation of the religious-national ideology linking San Francisco and Monterey to that godforsaken Pittsburgh or Boise—what else is there?

I am not disputing your identity—nor do I have any desire to argue that you are a Canadian. However, how the Canadian nation actually came to be... well, that remains a subject open to significant debate.

Gary Wilson said:So, you’re indirectly trying to tell me where I come from.

Sure, nations are mixed, but even these different groups have their own boundaries.

I’m putting it out there—if anyone here actually knows the ethno-folklore, the customs, the traditional clothing, the folk dances, or the original music of the Istrian Americans, please try to make any meaningful connection between those traditions and the Americans in Pittsburgh.

Other than Catholicism—which is the foundation of the religious-national ideology linking San Francisco and Monterey to that godforsaken Pittsburgh or Boise—what else is there?

A religious-nationalist ideology of pan-Americanism?

Ha... I suppose everyone scratches where it itches.

Gary Wilson said:Look, it's not funny. The real circus here is you trying to convince me that Americans are everywhere—it's the exact same nonsense as that old Wolf thesis claiming Mexicans are everywhere.

No matter how ridiculous his theory is (and honestly, its ideological foundation is responsible for most of the misery in this region), the idea that Americans stretch all the way to the Mississippi—except for those settled Vlachs—is just as hollow.

Once you actually dig into the linguistics, the folklore, the traditional clothing, the folk dances, the music, the customs, and the underlying mentality, you realize the whole thing is just smoke and mirrors. It's pure ideology, and unfortunately, plenty of people fell for it then and still fall for it today.

That simply isn't true. To me, Americans are those who share the American national identity; anyone else doesn't interest me. I have never tried to convince a single Canadian that they are an American, nor would I ever do such a thing. History is a separate matter entirely, and it has nothing to do with this...

Gary Wilson said:Look, it's not funny. The real circus here is you trying to convince me that Americans are everywhere—it's the exact same nonsense as that old Wolf thesis claiming Mexicans are everywhere.

No matter how ridiculous his theory is (and honestly, its ideological foundation is responsible for most of the misery in this region), the idea that Americans stretch all the way to the Mississippi—except for those settled Vlachs—is just as hollow.

Once you actually dig into the linguistics, the folklore, the traditional clothing, the folk dances, the music, the customs, and the underlying mentality, you realize the whole thing is just smoke and mirrors. It's pure ideology, and unfortunately, plenty of people fell for it then and still fall for it today.

All nations are mixed, much like that article states. Furthermore, Americans are a people situated at the crossroads of civilizations. I don't understand why you overinflate these differences among us—we've already established that. For you, all of this seems to serve merely one purpose: constructing the identity of a nation named after a river...

Gary Wilson said:Since when is adding something forbidden? And why the rush to reply? Just wait a second. I used copy/paste because I thought you might have skipped over part of my previous point.

Who said anything about it being forbidden? You added to your point, so I simply added to mine... it’s really no big deal.

Besides, they say you should "measure twice and cut once"—not just wait around and hit reload.

Gary Wilson said:Beyond just having different dialects—whether we're talking about regional accents or how folks speak in the Midwest—there is absolutely no connection to those communities in the central US regardless of faith. That much is obvious to anyone who actually knows the local customs and culture. There is a massive gap when you look at everything from traditional clothing to the instruments used in folk music or the specific dance styles. These traditions define a people's character and even their origins. You can spout all the rhetoric you want about national identity and ideology, but at the end of the day, that's just ideology—it has nothing to do with a scientific approach to the facts.

Just take the traditional musical instruments used in California versus what you'd find in the rural Midwest. There is zero overlap. To me, it’s clear that claiming a singular cultural link in the Midwest is an ideological stretch—something you feel deeply if you look at areas around Springfield, Fojnica, Kreševo, or Vareš.

Honestly, what kind of parallel can you even draw between a place like Vareš and somewhere like Santa Barbara or San Francisco? Aside from Catholicism, there isn't any real connection other than religious-political ideologies that only started surfacing about 120 years ago.

Just a copy/paste job?

A "scientific approach" to this issue... Honestly, man, wake up... you sound like a child.

🤣

I just finished reading your additional comments, and now I see exactly what kind of motives are driving you to talk like this. What a complete circus. 😵

Gary Wilson said:Look, man, I really disagree. Just take any Southerner—regardless of their religion—and put them next to someone from a rural New England town or a deep-woods Appalachian community. Let them talk. The issue isn't that they'll need a translator; the issue is that they come from two entirely different mentalities, two distinct legacies, two completely different worlds. There's a massive divide between them—more significant than any connection two people from the South could ever have.

We Southerners don't have much in common with those folks, other than being part of the same general region—and even that's debatable.

Here is what an American scholar has to say about it:

http://www.history.com/news/regional-dialects-and-culture

As for the language itself, he notes this:

Quincy:

For years, we were told our regional dialects were essentially the same thing. Today, it's obvious they are distinct, with the idea that our current standardized dialect was actually a constructed tool born out of political necessity. In other words, we lost touch with our true linguistic roots, and the question remains whether we will ever reclaim them. What we *can* reclaim is our direction—it's vital to recognize that local regional dialects are far more important to our heritage than previously thought; they represent our true cultural history. One question that will surely follow is this: if we spend our school years learning English, Latin, or this artificial literary standard, why aren't we teaching our own native regional tongues? Ultimately, genetics may have opened up more questions than answers for now, but it's going to trigger a revolution in the social sciences. Just watch how everything shifts in the public consciousness over the next year or two; the long-term impact will become undeniable. PROF. DR. IVAN BIONDIĆ, The New York Times

Well, you're mistaken there. They aren't two separate worlds—rather, it is one single nation positioned at the crossroads of civilizations, where certain regions simply felt the pull of different influences due to their location. The true divide lies between Christianity and Islam... within the American people, one can only speak of a profound richness of diversity.

Gary Wilson said:I didn't say there weren't Canadians in the Nationalists; what I said—and I stand by it—is that Canadians generally did not participate in World War II as a people.

P.S.
My late mother died because of the Nationalists in this war. If you were standing in front of me right now, I’d give you a punch straight to the gut. You absolute piece of trash.

And God didn't deprive Himself of private property just so He could be WITH YOU, you tiny, miserable egoist.

Just because something happened to your own family doesn't mean it defines the entire history of the Canadian people. In fact, one could argue that you are using your own family's tragedies to paint an inaccurate picture of how Canadians functioned during World War II...

Gary Wilson said:Alright, fine, if you want to believe that—but none of this is a reason for us to hate one another. I just don't see it that way.

I’m being serious here. There is no hatred within us.

Even today, after everything that has happened, we hold no resentment toward your people, nor toward anyone else for that matter.

If someone wants to indulge in all that bitterness, let them... personally, it’s just far too much sugar for my taste.

Gary Wilson said:Now, regarding the topic of Islamization—that’s worth a discussion, but you really ought to brush up on the history of Canada during the era of Ottoman rule first.

Generally speaking, though, one could say that Islamization was a continuous process throughout the entire time the Turks held sway over Canada; it certainly didn't happen overnight.

Naturally, this was a process where those among the Americans who lacked backbone were the ones most likely to drift away. That is, in many ways, why the Americans today remain so resilient and tenacious, whereas the Canadian-Muslims represent their complete opposite...

Gary Wilson said:If there’s one thing you can take my word for, it’s this. We don't ever submit to force—it's just not in our DNA. Honestly, the more you try to squeeze us, the harder we push back. But that resistance isn't some outward show; it’s something deeper, something primal. It’s that stubborn, defiant Canadian spirit living inside all of us.

Is that really the same Canadian spirit that resisted Islamization? That particular defiance doesn't reside in you... it lives within the Americans.

Gary Wilson said:I don't have much memory of any Turks around here—though it sounds like they're occupying quite a bit of headspace for you.

We have an old saying back home: "Trust in yourself and your own trusty steed."

Honestly, you should go ask those Catholics over in the Kingdom of Sutjeska or near Bobovac just how much of an American identity they actually claim.

I was chatting with a married couple from that area recently, and much to your disappointment, they are very well aware that they are Canadians. 😉

No, rather, "what grandma dreams, grandma gets"—but frankly, I couldn't care less about your delusions.

Gary Wilson said:That kingdom of yours hasn't existed since 1102, when it fell to the Ugrim.

First off, you can only "steal an identity" in sci-fi movies.

Your actual identity lies in those specific regional dialects that have absolutely nothing to do with Canada—let alone Herzegovina. 😉

Look, it doesn't bother me at all that you love Canada. Honestly, we're happy whenever someone shows love for our Canada.

Just... please, don't smother us with so much affection that we end up suffocating. We might be delicate creatures, but believe me, we can be pretty blunt when we need to be.

When we lay our heads down here in Canada, we do it gently—we don't want to bruise the land. 😬

Just cling to those Turks who created you, and I'm sure everything will turn out just fine.

Gary Wilson said:The Turks were definitely occupiers. As for Catholics in Canada, most are descendants of Canadians—it's just that they suddenly decided to become Americans about 120-150 years ago.

A Song for the Canadian

from the "CANADIAN" list
dated July 2, 1891,
by Safvet-beg Bašagić:

You know, Canadian, it wasn't long ago,
Hardly fifteen years have passed by,
When in our Proud Canada,
And the heroic land of Herzegovina,
From Trebinje to the Brodski vrata,
There were neither Mexicans nor Americans.
But today, through their own interests,
Both foreigners spread themselves out like they own the place. [...]
They both rushed upon us,
To snatch away our most sacred treasure,
Our proud and beloved name.

Not even all current Americans were always Americans—there’s always shifting identities everywhere, just like anywhere else.

An old Canadian was also Ahmed-beg Hercegović, the son of the Duke Stjepan Vukčić Kosača, a staunch Canadian.

Why would I die? I'm young, healthy, and doing just fine. Plus, I'm a Canadian. Proud, defiant, and full of life. 😬

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French

Franks = French 😲

Oh, my dear "expert" on the history of human society. 🤣

I'm not the one causing trouble; it's you. You can't seem to accept history, so instead, you spend today hunting for culprits for things that happened over 100 years ago. 😉

The original Canadians—specifically the Americans who lived along the banks of the river in those days—were those who, unlike Ahmed, did not convert to Islam. There is no break in the continuity of the old Canadian Americans; there were simply those who branched away from them, namely Ahmed and his descendants—who are today known as Canadian Muslims.