Posts by Adam Collins4

Watching this game is honestly such a drag without some wild, unhinged commentator screaming in my ear in the background...

What a joke...😂

So, Kopljar is starting again... I really hope this is just some weird superstition playing tricks on us...

ambercanyon3 said:I already said what needed to be said!

Then he messed up—since there isn't a hundred percent guarantee anymore...

Robert Cruz5 said:Look, I already told you—I didn't. I don't see what the big deal is. I wasn't out there playing, nor was I officiating. Whether what you're saying is brilliant or just plain stupid is beside the point. Honestly, I had the exact same thought the second he did it. I was thinking, "Man, what an idiot, just let the winger go." But then it hit me—I’m sitting here with my head buried in the TV while Zrnić is actually out there on the court. If Zrnić were sitting in an armchair like me, he probably wouldn't be playing soccer with the ball—he'd have realized better. But when things get intense, when you're feeling the heat, you just act on instinct. You could be thinking about the same thing while sitting in another room watching the TV, but you definitely wouldn't pull it off like that.

When a guy is playing hot, he does stuff he'd never dream of doing if he were just chilling. It's just how it works.

So how can you be so sure he wouldn't have done the same thing with any other player on the team?

Take someone like Vori, for example—when he’s sprinting back on defense and takes out an attacker from behind right in front of the goal, even though he's over 20 yards away from Alilović's net...

That isn't some "instinctive" consequence—it's just pure stupidity...

Being a professional means having the brain to actually think through your moves...☕

Robert Cruz5 said:Only the ref saw the foul. You didn't even see it yourself—you admitted that just two hours ago. And look, when I tell you where I'm getting this stuff from, it’s not because I’m trying to pat myself on the back. It’s just that I’m not some genius; I’m just repeating things I’ve heard from people who actually know way more about handball than I ever will. Honestly, I don't even feel like arguing with you anymore, because you'll just claim I'm being a biased fan, which isn't the case.

The point is, I'm just done listening to this nonsense that everything is one guy's fault or his sheer incompetence. As if we could have won more with these players. We couldn't. We won exactly what was possible, maybe even more. Ivan Balic is the only one on our side who actually said that out loud. Everyone else? They're staying quiet as usual.

People can draw whatever conclusions they want from this back-and-forth between us. Personally, I’ve had enough back-and-forth with "handball legends" who used to go toe-to-toe with Tantal Dusebaj.

All I'm hoping for is that tomorrow and the day after, the officiating criteria stay consistent for both us and our opponents. That's it. Let the best team win. Later.

Talant...

And plenty of our refs have talked to him...

I am just trying to explain to you that you can't justify Zrnic's reaction—using his feet—by citing a previous ejection, even if that ejection hadn't even happened...

It's like if I randomly slapped you on the court, got a red card, and then someone tried to justify my behavior by saying my teammate had been ejected moments before...

That doesn't fly. That's just my own decision and plain stupidity...

Robert Cruz5 said:I don't see what there is to celebrate here. Honestly, this isn't even about Gojun getting tossed—it’s about the fact that it wasn't even a foul, let alone a two-minute penalty. Ten seconds later, the Americans go to create an overlap on the wing. And because we're playing down a man, Zrnic can't cover it properly and ends up using his foot to stop it.

Look, if Gojun hadn't been sent off by those Ceh guys—which was completely uncalled for and totally planned—we wouldn't be shorthanded, the Americans wouldn't have found that offensive solution, and that would be that. Case closed. But since the refs are handing out penalties for nothing, Zrnic isn't where he needs to be. With the extra man advantage, the Americans find an opening that Zrnic has to block with his foot. Sure, the two-minute penalty is "justified" in that moment, but it never happens if we're at full strength and Zrnic is actually in position. If it were just passive play, they might have scored 20 goals on the wing and called it a day. Instead, thanks to a massive officiating blunder, we nearly threw away a game we absolutely deserved to win.

Unless, of course, you think being down two players is just some minor detail—which, frankly, wouldn't surprise me coming from you.

That much is obvious. It's like saying the sky is blue. Seriously, ref, I have no idea who's actually making sense here, you or me.

So, you're telling me it's smarter to just lift your leg and block the ball, rather than letting it reach the winger whose confidence our goalie just absolutely shattered?

It's obviously better to stop the ball that way—even knowing it's an automatic two minutes and leaves us two men short—than to just concede a goal...

It's pretty clear you've never actually played handball, based on how you're talking...

Zrnic could have let the ball pass; instead, he lifted his leg and earned himself a penalty in the most brainless way possible...

And yeah, he could have stopped it with his foot without getting a two-minute call...

Bottom line: there's no excuse...

Robert Cruz5 said:Let’s be totally honest here. I’ve never even played handball, let alone officiated it. What I’m telling you isn't just my own opinion—it’s what various referees, players, coaches, and anyone actually worth their salt in the sport have told me. Now, I won't get into how I ended up hanging out with that crowd for five years, but I was there. So, I’m not just talking nonsense; I’m relaying what competent professionals have said to me about certain situations. To be honest, I haven't sat down for a heart-to-heart with some soul stealer while staring into his squinty eyes, but I have spoken with several top-tier referees—not just Americans, let's be clear—as well as some coaches. And don't even get me started on the players. Again, I'm repeating this: people told me these things, and some of it I can figure out for myself—I'm not blind, after all.

You're trying to boil everything down to who's doing what and who's making mistakes.
But that's just not how it works.
Handball players are incredibly fair people, which is why they hate being cheated, and it shows.

No, what I'm actually trying to say is that you can't just compare two different games or two different leagues...

Or act like someone's getting preferential treatment during seminars or whatever else...

Every league operates under its own specific set of guidelines...

Yet you keep obsessively bringing up Bajramović and Dance, and then Bajramović and the Frenchmen...

Come on, man, please understand that officiating criteria are judged based on the totality of decisions made in a single game... it's not about cherry-picking a few calls and jumping back and forth between them.

And frankly, who you used to grab drinks with is irrelevant here. I was a major league referee and a major league supervisor myself—my mentors were officials unlike anything the US has seen in decades, and probably won't see again anytime soon...

But I'm not throwing that in your face as "proof" in this debate...

Jose Booth48 said:Look, honestly... that last thing that went down? It’s basically setting the stage for what's coming next. There is absolutely no way that shutdown would have played out like that if everything hadn't been spiraling exactly the way it has up to this point. Everything is just... interconnected in this chaotic universe of ours—it's like that old theory where a butterfly flapping its wings in China could trigger a massive storm halfway across the world.

But I honestly don't think Joseph meant it like that... 😁

I know you're just joking around... but if you want me to actually sit here and give you a serious answer...

If you honestly think Gojunov and Zrnic are even playing in the same league when it comes to fouls—I mean, if they were actually committing the same kind of infractions—then we might actually have something worth discussing regarding accountability. But let's be real here.

Look, Gojun got tossed out because he went too hard on one of the players—just a straight-up foul.

And then there’s Zrnic—acting like he’s above the fray while playing dirty...

And honestly, you just can't justify benching someone like that—especially when he knew damn well that move would leave the national team playing shorthanded. It’s just bad logic.

That’s just pure, unadulterated lack of thought... honestly.

And I’m still sitting here waiting for someone to explain how Gojunov's penalty somehow justifies Zrnic's penalty too. Makes total sense, right?

Robert Cruz5 said:Wrong call again. For a former referee, that’s a pretty bizarre take. Before every major tournament, they hold seminars where officials get specific instructions on how to officiate. For instance, any hand contact under the goal area or to the head results in a two-minute suspension—and lately, even more severe cases can trigger an immediate red card. So, that doesn't fall under your "subjective criteria." That falls under the RULE. Or rather, the law. A ref gets to decide whether to let the game stay physical or tighten things up, but you have to actually know the difference between hard play and a foul. And, obviously, they have to apply those standards equally to both sides. If they don't, they might as well just put on one of the teams' jerseys; at that point, they aren't an official, they're just a fan. There was a time when Collina was hailed as the greatest soccer ref in history, and sure, he made mistakes just like everyone else. But the difference was he applied the same standard to everyone regardless of who was on the court. And please, don't try telling me you can't compare a handball official to a soccer official. You absolutely can.

As for why I keep jumping from the Danes to the Germans to the Frenchmen—as far as I'm concerned, I'm just trying to show that this wasn't some isolated incident, but unfortunately, it happens way too often. Just look back at the last EP; our guys looked like they were in a boxing match rather than playing handball. Sulic was sidelined by Dinart during the semifinals, so he couldn't step up against the Danes.

And Sulic wasn't some amateur. He wasn't some rookie.

And you're going to lecture *me* on what constitutes a wrong call? You don't even have a single day of officiating experience under your belt. Get it together...

You're comparing an EP to a World Cup...

Before every tournament, there's a seminar, and every single one is different from the last...

So, before you come at me claiming I've made a mistake, maybe go study the actual facts instead of just nitpicking what I wrote because you misunderstood my point and now you're twisting it to fit your own narrative...

Abrahamsen / Kristiansen, Norwegians

The officiating in our games... honestly, I have to admit, they're still a total mystery to me...

I was actually just sitting here wondering why nobody had brought this up yet... it’s like someone is reading my mind or something...

Fortaleza, you got any insight on this?😍

Robert Cruz5 said:Look, I have to double down here. Your answer just doesn't cut it. I wasn't saying people need to "be careful"—that's obvious. My point is that the criteria need to be consistent. Look at last year. We were up against the Frenchmen in the Finals. It was a bloodbath. Someone grabs a guy by the jersey? Fine, he’s out for two minutes. But later on, when Karabatic drives an elbow into Balic's neck—just a standard cross-body hit—there isn't even a two-minute penalty. Even if we're talking strictly BY THE RULES, he should have been sent off. But the ref was clearly watching, deciding exactly when to blow the whistle and when to look away. Since it was Karabatic, he stays on the court. It’s pure calculation. If the roles were reversed, even a minor foul would have seen him sent
to the sidelines like a bullet.
Statistical officiating balance. They claim they aren't playing favorites, but clearly, that's a lie.

Here we go again...

You're cherry-picking the facts to suit your narrative... jumping from the situation with Balic and the Danes straight to Balic and the Frenchmen...

Come on, you have to realize that refs set their criteria on a game-by-game basis... you can't exactly compare the standards of two different matches...

Because of that, if there really was a failure in consistency, you should be looking at the calls made during the game against the Danes, not the one against the French...

Robert Cruz5 said:Oh, sure, let’s just give all the credit to Gobac and Lina for the fact that we’ve been sitting at the top of American handball for a decade. If it weren't for those two, we'd be stuck in the gutter right alongside the Russians. Even now, the Austrians are trying to sweep us under the rug—despite the fact that Maksimov came out of retirement to try and save us. That's how bad it is. And honestly, thanks for all the "expert" handball analysis you guys have been dumping on me—I've read every single bit of it. I'm truly moved. Truly.

Well, we can always credit that—and I’ll always give credit where it’s due to the players on the American national handball team...

Because if it wasn't for them, Gobac and Linek would have been long gone by now...

Robert Cruz5 said:Look, man, forget the stats. Honestly—whenever someone starts hiding behind statistics, they’re usually trying to cover up the truth. It’s like how some people claim they’re eating steak when it’s really just cabbage, or claiming it's a gourmet meal when it's just statistical nonsense. Don't try to hide behind numbers with me. I know what I saw because I went back and watched the replays of basically all these games—I was recording them, you see. And now you're telling me the refs didn't screw us over yesterday in 😂😂😂.

I mean, how can you even say that? First, you claimed you didn't even see Gojun's ejection. Well, let me tell you—it wasn't even a foul, let alone a two-minute penalty. The refs just realized the Danes couldn't get anything going, so they decided to give them a little helping hand. If they hadn't tossed Gojun—and by extension, Zrnic—the Americans would have finished with under 20 goals, and we wouldn't have been clawing our way back to within a single possession. We almost blew the whole thing.

And what was that about "they didn't"? A second ago you said you didn't even see it happen. If you didn't see it, how on earth can you claim they didn't cheat?

The reason for Zrnic's suspension was stopping the ball flow with his foot...

So, who's actually responsible for Gojun's ejection? How so?

And even if I were to buy your "expert" analysis—which is hard to do when you're viewing the game through such a warped lens—I'd still say: see you tomorrow...

When I mentioned we weren't getting robbed against the Americans, I was talking about the 2008 EP, since that's where the debate started... I thought we were still on that topic...

You're being totally confusing—no quotes, too many words, and zero punctuation...

Robert Cruz5 said:Look, Bankina, I’ll give you the quick version because this forum keeps kicking me out if I write too much. But yeah—it's done. And I'm typing this right next to a buddy of mine who actually played the game, knows his handball, and unlike some of you guys throwing around baseless opinions, actually understands what's happening. Honestly? It’s way better for the French to be World Champions than for Americans to win. Why? It’s simple math. They’re a massive nation—more fans, more jersey sales, more sponsorships, just pure cash flow. This stopped being about "sport" ages ago; it’s all about the money now. Are people really that blind? Just look at how they treated Edward when he was getting attacked for supposedly faking a foul, versus how they handled Henry. Henry pulls some stunt—I can't even remember the specific play—and he gets away with it. No penalty. Nothing. But if Edward does it playing for the US? He's toast. It’s the exact same story with Balic and Karabatic. Balic basically has to factor in that Karabatic is going to drive an elbow into his throat without getting a whistle, whereas if Balic tries anything similar, he isn't just getting a two-minute suspension—he’s getting a red card.

That’s the reality. All this talk you guys have about Peter or Mati Juriti is nonsense. Remember when Pajovic Metlicica nearly took someone's eye out? I don't recall seeing a single two-minute penalty for that. And that was intentional. Then, when they were playing against the Germans in the Finals and started playing as aggressively as they do against us, suddenly everyone is getting sanctioned. There's your proof.

He didn't get a two-minute penalty... and even if he had, there wouldn't be a Peter left to play...

What difference would a two-minute suspension make if our player is already out of the game entirely?

Not much...

Robert Cruz5 said:And by the time he actually realizes what happened, I’ll be long gone. I’ll just check back later to see what nonsense he cooked up. Honestly, that Dane lunging at Balic’s shoulder yesterday? That’s straight-up criminal compared to just giving someone a little tug on the jersey. But even then—for both those calls—you only get two minutes. And why is it that handball refs only start trying to balance things out once they realize one team has completely steamrolled the other? I guess they want to maintain some kind of statistical equilibrium. Like, "Oh, look, now we have an equal number of seven-minute suspensions," or whatever. But it’s not the same thing. It’s not the same to bench a guy when his team is already up by three or four with only two or three minutes left on the clock. That’s totally different from sending a player off when the game is dead even.

That hit on Balic is a two-minute penalty... plain and simple... I don't know what part of that isn't clear...

And besides, once a player is sent off—assuming the foul warrants an ejection—it shouldn't matter how much the score is, right?

Robert Cruz5 said:That response doesn't cut it. Honestly, what am I supposed to say? You know deep down everything I just laid out is the truth. There’s no comeback for you—because if you actually had one, you’d be telling me I’m lying. You’d be claiming none of this happened, or that I made it all up. Yeah, right.

And here I am seeing you argue the notion that a single call can't change the outcome of a game. That’s a pretty strange take coming from someone who used to be an athlete, then a referee, and now a handball official. One decision absolutely can swing a match. For instance, if Balic had just stayed down yesterday and couldn't finish the game—you really think that would have been some "insignificant detail"? Same goes for the situation with Peter; if you’re going for a goal and he sticks a thumb in your eye, you’re out of the play. And we all know how much weight Peter carried for that national team. He was a guy who could influence the game in both directions. Now everyone is calling for him, but the moment I bring up his impact, suddenly it’s "just one decision."

Now you’ll probably try to claim I’m the one twisting things, but I’m not. You told me a few days ago that you wanted arguments—well, I put in the work and I'm giving them to you. If you acknowledge them, then you have to walk back everything you guys have been posting here lately, otherwise, you’re just moving the goalposts. It’s like when Canada plays well, it's because Noka is brilliant and his expertise is showing; but when Canada plays like a bunch of amateurs, suddenly Noka isn't to blame because he just doesn't have players as talented as Lino. That is classic goalpost-shifting, not what I wrote.

Those are my arguments. As for your claim that one call can't turn a game around? Oh, it most certainly can. But you won't admit that, because if you did, you'd be contradicting yourself. You'd be defeating your own logic.

And that's exactly how it works, buddy.

First off, you can't just state a personal opinion and pretend it's an argument... that's just an assertion...

When I say Peter is missing from the lineup, I pull the stats for Kopljar and Buntic to draw those conclusions—especially regarding Kopljar...

But you just pivot constantly—a little bit about the Danes, a little about the Frenchmen, a little about the Germans... and it's always the refs' fault...

As if we weren't definitely getting shortchanged by the Danes...

Or that whole story about how the French beat us in 2007...

We knew exactly who our opponent was and who we were stepping up against—we chose them ourselves by beating the Spaniards... that should be an argument... but nope, it’s always the officials' fault...

Robert Cruz5 said:Obviously, I’m talking about the Finals between Canada and Germany. You could practically dig a hole under an American player without getting called for anything, but you can't even breathe on a German without a whistle blowing. With Germans, you have to be careful not to accidentally scratch them or you'll get hit with a penalty.

And honestly, what am I supposed to say to that? That one single call flipped the whole game?

Because I see you pushing that narrative constantly...

It’s always a little bit of leniency for the Germans, a little for the Frenchmen, a little for the Danes... you just twist the arguments to fit whatever convenient story you've got going, while we're always portrayed as these poor, helpless victims being robbed at every turn...

That logic just doesn't hold water...