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Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
wearyhawk83 said:Look, I definitely have the knack for calling ten sports parlay winners in a row and turning a tiny bet into a massive payday, but I don't obsess over it. Even though the cash and all those material things—and yeah, the big stuff too—are super tempting, I don't let it run my life.

I really believe everything happens when it's supposed to, though that doesn't mean you shouldn't push hard in certain areas. After all, there aren't really any real rules to life!

There is no argument to be made there; if anything, I agree.

While observing the experiences of others can help clarify one's own needs, those insights remain nothingness without the weight of personal experience to back them up.
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Lisa Morales4 said:It sounds like you’re just picking up some scraps and closing down shop...

Hold on, I haven't even properly settled in for this discussion yet (aside from a few quick check-ins at the start)🙄
You guys aren't going to lock this thread already, are you?

I’ve been looking over the thread, and it seems like you're basing everything solely on what an experienced person might think... hmm... but what about those who spend their entire lives trying to cleanse their minds of all things "earthly"? Those who do it through faith in eternal nothingness?

Since there hasn't been any activity here for quite some time, I thought it might be appropriate to offer my thanks to everyone.
If you aren't going to demonstrate any genuine interest in what I have to say, then there is simply no point in me continuing.

Fair enough. To begin with, I should probably provide a more thorough breakdown of all this to ensure everything is perfectly clear.
I am merely outlining a personal experience, along with certain realizations I have reached regarding the nature of man.
I have no intention of forcing anyone’s hand, but I must ask.
If we view this through a lens that isn't merely about whether one likes or dislikes something—which is really just an exercise in feeding the ego—we can instead approach it as a matter of scrutiny: does the claim actually hold any truth?
I have been reviewing this thread, and it appears you maintain the position that thought is strictly a byproduct of lived experience. It is an interesting stance, though I find myself wondering about those individuals who spend their entire lives attempting to purge their minds of all things worldly—those who strive to transcend the earthly through a steadfast belief in eternal hope.

Picture a man caught in a strange tension, tethered on one hand by his evolutionary drive to the material world, while simultaneously feeling, deep within his soul, a profound sense of nothingness. 🙂 It would be wise to find somewhere else to go.
Unfortunately, his attachment to the material world is so profound that it dictates his entire perspective, leaving him effectively trapped within its confines.
But consider this: what if you viewed that relationship as little more than a knotted string, one that could simply be untied at any moment? If that were the case, how would you proceed? 🙂
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
I appreciate everyone who contributed to this discussion.

If even a single person who gets behind the wheel while feeling the effects of alcohol pauses to ask themselves whether they truly believe they can escape the consequences, then this conversation has served its purpose.
The same logic applies to those who simply have an obsession with heavy acceleration.

If I have inadvertently offended anyone’s religious sensibilities, please accept my apologies, as that was never my intention.
Ultimately, one's religious convictions are a deeply personal matter for every individual.

👋
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:
I guess I’m just sitting here thinking about things—nothing specific, really—but sometimes you find yourself stuck in these loops, wondering how everything fits together. It’s funny how certain ideas just stick in your head, isn't it? Maybe it's just me, though. I tend to wander off on these little mental side quests quite often. Anyway, just some random thoughts floating around today. kaže:
I mean, personally, I’ve always felt that motivation—if you have enough of it—can be plenty to get people moving. It’s that spark that actually drives someone to start questioning things, looking for new opportunities, and just... well, taking action. Maybe it isn't everything, but it's certainly a decent starting point, I guess.
Honestly, I don't really have any major issues right now regarding whether or not God exists—it’s just not really at the center of my focus these days. Will it become a central thing for me later on? I guess I don't know. Maybe.
I guess you could say my whole focus tends to land on people—myself included, I suppose. I’ve always been sort of obsessed with figuring out what actually drives us to be the way we are. It’s funny, really—the more I can wrap my head around my own quirks and the motivations of those around me, the more I feel like I can actually sit back and enjoy the ride. There's a certain kind of... I don't know, an ecstasy in life that just opens up when you stop fighting the complexity of it all.

I don't know, I guess I just have this restless sort of obsession with hunting down the truth—it’s almost like a compulsion at this point. We live in such a world saturated with falsehoods, and honestly, if only self-deception were the only culprit, things might be simpler. But it isn't. There's so much more to it than that... there are these calculated, intentional lies being spun constantly, all designed to serve the specific interests of various groups and power players. It's a bit overwhelming, really.

I haven't really thought about this much lately—maybe because life gets in the way, I guess—but there’s just something about that specific vibe... it’s hard to pin down, isn't it? It’s almost like a certain kind of energy you pick up in certain parts of the country, though I probably shouldn't generalize too much. Still, it stays with you. Just a wandering thought, really. kaže:
I guess I’d just stick to one thing: KEEP IT NON-PERSONAL. Because—and maybe this is just me thinking out loud—sometimes when you take that direct route, you just end up crashing headlong into a total deadlock. In those cases, taking the long way around... well, maybe there's actually something constructive to be found that way.

There’s really no point in getting personal—not that there’s any real benefit to it, anyway. I mean, unless you're just trying to share some lived experience, or maybe a specific perspective or a way of seeing things... but even then, I don't think anyone should be getting worked up about that. It seems pretty harmless, I guess.

Experiencing the thrill of discovery is an entirely different matter altogether.
we inhabit a world saturated with falsehoods, and it would be simpler if self-deception were the only culprit at play; however, there are as many deliberate, calculated lies as one cares to count, manufactured to serve the specific interests of various factions.

Our sole defense lies in our capacity to recognize them, for once the truth is realized, a lie loses all its power over us.
The danger arises only if we allow ourselves to believe that the lie is the truth.
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:It seems like we just act differently when we hold certain beliefs, mostly because everyone tends to judge things based on their own lived experience—which is fair, I suppose (I mean, whose else would you use?). For me, I don't mind having convictions, but I also enjoy questioning them and changing my mind. I tend to view my views as a sort of "working draft"—today it looks like this, tomorrow who knows what might shift? But any change should probably be backed by some foundation, some reason or argument, don't you think? And usually, those reasons are rational enough.

I honestly feel like you can only gain something from a discussion, and there shouldn't be any anger involved as long as the communication stays civil—you know, sticking to the topic and avoiding personal jabs. Nobody should feel attacked by an actual argument. A solid point has the power to nudge someone's perspective, and if a person goes into a debate open to the idea that they might walk away slightly changed, then there shouldn't be a problem. The issue really starts when someone enters a conversation with these rigid, unshakeable stances, totally unwilling to budge, and then they get hit with a good counterargument that rattles the very position they were trying to "defend."

In my view, motivation alone is often enough to drive people toward self-reflection, recognizing new possibilities, and taking action.
As for whether God exists, it currently presents no conflict for me because it sits outside my primary focus. Will it move to the center one day? I cannot say.
My attention is fixed on humanity, myself included, as I explore the underlying forces that shape our characters. The deeper my understanding of both myself and others becomes, the more I am able to experience the full ecstasy of life.
I believe that discussion can only be beneficial, and there should be no room for anger as long as communication remains civil—meaning it stays focused on the subject matter rather than drifting into personal attacks. No one should feel insulted by an argument. A strong argument has the inherent power to shift a person's perspective, and if a participant remains open to being even slightly changed by the dialogue, there shouldn't be an issue. Problems only arise when someone enters a debate with rigid views, unwilling to bend, and then feels threatened when a solid counterargument shakes their defensive position.

I would simply emphasize this: AS LONG AS IT STAYS AWAY FROM THE PERSONAL, because sometimes, when a direct confrontation leads to a total impasse, taking a more circuitous route is the only way to reach something constructive.
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:Some people argue it had to be directed evolution—mostly because of the sheer speed of everything we see in history. If you go with the random mutation route, explaining that kind of rapid progress is... well, it's tough. Personally, I tend to lean toward the idea that the initial spark of life already contained all the necessary potential; maybe evolution isn't about discovering new hallways, but more like wandering through corridors that were already built. But that’s just the physical side of things, I guess. In any case, it feels a bit more straightforward to assume consciousness has always existed rather than thinking it popped out of thin air. Why does that feel more logical? Well, once you realize there couldn't have been a true "beginning," then eternity becomes the only real option. And if we're talking eternity, the idea of consciousness being eternal seems a lot more plausible than it just appearing from nothing.

That’s really the core of the whole eternity argument—something couldn't have come from nothing. No matter how small or simple that "something" was at the start, it had to exist as the foundation for everything we have today.

But, I wanted to point something out to you; if it isn't actual knowledge, then it's just an assumption. And can a person truly say something like, "I think/assume it went this way..." without actually believing it?

Can we even hold a mental stance or an assumption without slipping into belief?

Because, the only way I see us avoiding belief is if we don't even make an assumption in the first place. Like, being in a state of total neutrality. In that scenario, we could recognize possibilities without having a personal preference. So, like: it's possible it happened this way... and it's also possible it happened that way, and so on.

That would be a completely rational stance, which I suppose is what people are looking for when they want to navigate this world using nothing but pure reason.

We are getting close enough here that I can conclude with 🙂
that is precisely the foundation of eternity—nothing could have emerged from nothing. regardless of how minimal that starting point may have seemed, it had to exist as the bedrock for everything we experience today.

However, I would like to offer a counterpoint; if it isn't knowledge, then it is merely an assumption. and can a person truly utter a sentence like "I think" or "I assume" without actually holding a belief?

Is it possible to maintain a mental stance or an assumption without crossing the threshold into belief?

Because the only way I see us avoiding belief is by avoiding assumptions altogether—by remaining in a state of total neutrality. In that state, we can recognize various possibilities without having a personal preference for any of them. For instance: it is possible that X is true; yet it is equally possible that Y is true, and so on.

That would be a purely rational stance, which is what those who wish to navigate this world guided strictly by reason would find desirable.

To reiterate: No one has ever proven, as far as I am aware, that something can be created from nothing. Since this world is undeniably real, it clearly did not arise from nothingness. To avoid falling into an infinite loop of creation, there must logically exist a creator who was not itself created.
The impossibility of something arising from nothing is a principle we encounter daily and applies to everything known; therefore, it qualifies as knowledge.

What I consider more vital for our ongoing dialogue is a mutual respect for our differences.
Personally, I do not view reality through the lens of good or evil, but rather strive to understand why things are the way they are.
Since believing in something, by definition, removes the need to question it, I cannot—nor do I feel the need to—accept a starting point rooted in belief, as an investigator.
In doing so, I am not suggesting that someone’s need for a foundation in belief makes them anything specific. They are simply different from me. And that is perfectly normal, isn't it?
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:It’s a bit tough to say for sure that potential isn't just a reflection of the past, though—I mean, we all have histories we might not fully understand ourselves.

Do you know if God exists?

By the way, did you notice that even though you wrote "everywhi" ere, the adjective should be spelled "aware"? Wait, no, I mean the spelling of "conscious"... anyway, just a heads up.

For the moment, I am sticking to what is known, though I remain preoccupied by one lingering question: are we looking at random evolution through natural selection, or some form of directed evolution?
do you know if God exists?

No!
However, no one has yet—at least to my knowledge—demonstrated that something can emerge from absolutely nothing. Since this world is undeniably real, it clearly did not arise from a vacuum. To avoid falling into an infinite regress of creators, there must exist a creator who was not itself created.
Furthermore, from the expansion rate of the universe to the emergence of humanity, the sheer number of coincidences required seems far too vast to be purely accidental.
by the way, are you aware that even though you write "everywh..."ere, the adjective is spelled "everywh..."ere?

Thanks; clearly, I haven't quite mastered the modern rules of grammar, much like the internet itself hasn't, but the intent of my message was understood.
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:So, do you personally believe that God exists?

I am gradually coming to realize that He does.
To my mind, when an individual possesses innate potentials that aren't merely echoes of their past, but rather indicators of what is to come, then mere coincidence has no place in human development.
Consequently, I find myself less concerned with where I am headed and more focused on what baggage from my past I must shed to make room for the future.
Furthermore, being acutely aware of the pitfalls of self-confirmation bias—a tendency I personally struggle with while searching for truth within myself and others—I find myself drawn to seeking the truth about our Creator, regardless of the name we choose to call Him. 🙂
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Belief is essentially a mental state defined by an individual's conviction regarding the truth of a specific proposition. As a concept, belief carries its own inherent judgment, maintaining an affirmative stance that distinguishes it from doubt, disbelief, or other forms of skepticism. It functions simultaneously as both a psychological condition and the actual content of that condition. In a strictly epistemological sense, we aren't talking about religious faith or a belief in the supernatural—though those are common colloquial uses—but rather the cognitive acceptance of whether a particular claim holds true or false.
Sourced from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief"
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Anonymous said:🤔

I think I'm starting to get it. I'm still a little foggy on certain parts, though. Put like that, it really does sound simple. I still tend to blur the lines between emotions and love. People say emotions can become a permanent state—like how depression can turn into a way of living (that's a theory of choice). And if a state is something we choose, why is love different? What makes it unique?

I must admit, I wasn't being entirely clear. 🙂
The distinction between love and emotion lies, among other things, in one's mental state. With love, there is an absence of such turbulence, because when one is truly immersed in love, the mind sees no reason to seek an exit.
With other emotions, the situation is reversed; they are accompanied by a frantic mental search for a way out, often fueled by people who haven't yet grasped the truth about them—or who are searching for someone to blame.
It is said that even an emotion can become a state—for instance, how depression transitions into "depressing," according to choice theory. It becomes a state we actively choose.

Emotions are indeed a state. According to William Glasser and his Choice Theory, depression doesn't exist as a standalone emotion; rather, when people find themselves unable to avoid the triggers of unpleasant feelings, they essentially choose to descend into depression.
Generally speaking, relationship-based emotions fall within the realm of what can be understood, and people learn how to manage them.
By discussing the observer and the observed, I was attempting to suggest that alternative solutions actually exist.
If that is the case, why is love different? What sets it apart?

Love isn't a choice. If it were, everyone would choose it in a heartbeat.🙂 Love doesn't even reside within the realm of the known; if it did, we would all be eager to study how to exist in a state of love.
Therefore, if it is possible, it must already exist within us; there is no other way. If it is inside us but we aren't feeling it, then we must work to release it. Release it from what? From everything within ourselves that is not love. And do we truly know what love is not?
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:
I haven't really thought about this much lately—well, maybe I have, more than I should probably admit—but there’s just something about how things seem to be shifting these days. It feels like we’re all just sort of drifting through these massive, sweeping changes without much of a map, I guess. Sometimes I sit back and wonder if anyone is actually steering the ship, or if we're all just reacting to whatever happens next. It's a bit overwhelming, honestly. I mean, you look at the news, or even just walk down the street in Chicago, and you can feel that tension... that sense that the old ways aren't quite holding up anymore. Not that I have any answers, obviously. I'm just someone sitting here, sipping coffee, trying to make sense of the noise. Maybe it's just me, though. Probably. kaže:
It’s funny how that works—we don't just see what's physically there, I guess... we also see whatever our brain has already cataloged through experience. It's like once you learn something, your mind just starts overlaying that knowledge onto the world around you—sort of like how you might recognize a specific engine sound before you even see the car. We aren't just looking at raw data; we're seeing everything our intellect has already processed. Maybe that's why things feel so familiar sometimes.
I guess you could say that knowledge is really just... well, it's basically just our past experiences repackaged as an opinion. It’s funny how that works—we take everything we've been through, all those little lessons learned the hard way, and then we turn it into this solid thing called "knowledge," which is really just our perspective on what happened. Maybe it's more complicated than that, but I tend to look at it that way.

Well, you’re already operating within the realm of your own biases at this point—I mean, that's just how it works. There’s this whole neurological lag, right? A tiny window of about 0.2 seconds where the brain is basically crunching data. We don't actually "see" things in the way people think we do; it’s more like the brain interprets reality based on what it already knows... plus, I guess, the entire collection of beliefs we carry around with us. It’s all filtered through that lens, really.

I don't really know how to put this—it’s kind of hard to wrap my head around sometimes—but I suppose I should probably mention it. It’s one of those things that just sort of sits there in the back of your mind, you know? Like a thought you can't quite shake, even if you try. Anyway, I guess that's just how it goes. kaže:
Look, if you’re actually going to sit here and read this—and I mean really sit down and go through it—you don't even need to bother with any deep interpretation or overthinking things. It isn't some complex metaphor or a riddle to solve, I guess. It’s just... well, it's reality. Plain and simple.
I guess I’ve been thinking about this lately—how does intuition actually find its way through us? It isn't exactly a straight line, is it? It feels more like... well, maybe like a side street you didn't realize was there until you've already turned down it. It doesn't follow the usual logic or those neat little paved paths we try to build for ourselves—those structured, step-by-step processes we use at work or when we're trying to navigate something like a tax audit or a GPS route through Chicago. It’s less of a highway and more of a quiet, wandering trail—something that bypasses the heavy lifting of the conscious mind. I suppose it moves through the gaps between our thoughts—those weird, quiet spaces where you aren't actively trying to solve anything. You know, that feeling when you just *know* a decision is wrong before you can even explain why? It’s almost like an instinctual shortcut. Or maybe it’s just the brain processing everything in the background while we're busy worrying about something else entirely. I don't know, it’s hard to pin down. It’s definitely not a direct route.

I mean, reading isn't exactly immune to interpretation—not that anyone really expects it to be—because, let’s face it, you can look at a single piece of text and see five different things depending on how you feel that day. It’s kind of like how moving an apostrophe around in a sentence can completely flip the meaning on its head... it changes everything, really. When you start digging into those nuances, you hit this extra layer of meaning—sort of a deeper level of interpretation, I guess—where you run into these internal mental images triggered by specific words. They're all pretty subjective, though, since everyone's brain processes things a little differently.

I don't really know how to start this—it’s kind of a weird one—but I suppose I should probably say something about the whole situation. It feels like one of those things where you just sort of sit back and watch, though I guess that’s easier said than done when everything is moving so fast. I was thinking about it earlier while grabbing coffee, and it strikes me how much we tend to overlook the small stuff until it suddenly becomes the only thing left to talk about. Maybe that's just how it goes, I suppose. Anyway, I'm just rambling now. kaže:
I’m feeling pretty driven to actually change things up for myself lately—mostly because when I look back at everything, the progress is just... well, it's hard to even put a number on it, I guess. It's almost unmeasurable.

Whose results are we even talking about here? I guess it depends on who you ask, really—though I suspect we're all looking at the same data points. Maybe it’s just me, but I feel like everyone has their own version of the truth when it comes to these things... anyway, does anyone actually know for sure?

I guess there isn't much to say here—just sitting around, waiting for something interesting to happen, I suppose. Not much else going on today. kaže:
I guess my whole aim was just to point out the downsides of relying too much on faith and hope—you know, how they can actually be kind of detrimental if you aren't careful. In our later chats, I tried to walk through the idea that it’s actually possible to get by without them—if that makes any sense—and maybe even live a more grounded life. I also thought it was worth calling for a bit of a reality check on everything we write down, looking at both sides of the coin (which, to be fair, I tried to do myself). I suppose the same logic applies to those deep-seated emotions we build around our relationships, too. It’s all a bit complicated, really.
I mean, if you ask me—and I guess that’s asking a lot—it feels like we’ve just hit this wall where nobody is actually hearing anyone else. It’s like a massive breakdown in how we’re all processing things... a total failure in mutual understanding, I suppose.

So, I went back and looked over everything—really took a second look, actually—and I’ve come to the conclusion that your thesis is just a bit too thin. It feels like you built the whole thing on some pretty shaky ground right from the jump, which kind of baked in those initial errors we were talking about. I mean, I tried pointing out those same flaws earlier, but there seems to be this... I don't know, a bit of a disconnect. It feels like you might be missing my point a little, or maybe—and I say this with respect—you just aren't interested in hearing it, since you can't really find a way to push back against what I'm saying. I guess it just comes down to a misunderstanding, plain and simple.

Conviction does not stem from knowledge. 🤦
nor is reading exempt from this interpretive process, given that a single text can often be parsed in several different ways. even a simple shift in punctuation can alter the intended meaning, and when one engages with their own internal information, an additional layer of interpretation emerges—for instance, through the unique mental imagery triggered by specific words.

You aren't reading carefully enough, and you have completely missed the point. 🤦
whose results?

Truly, whose? 🤦
after reviewing everything with a bit more scrutiny, I concluded that your thesis was superficially defined and contained errors from its very inception; I have presented the same arguments to you. the issue regarding comprehension seems to be that you fail to grasp my points entirely, or perhaps you simply refuse to accept them because you lack the capacity to refute them. that is where the misunderstanding lies.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Anonymous said:Unfortunately, conditional love is still everywhere. Most people are still out there looking for love from external sources. You and I both know that isn't what real love is. Why is it so hard to simply *be* love? I think it comes down to how we've been conditioned.

People tend to be oriented toward the material world, a realm defined by the concept of HAVING.
HAVING—a house, a car, a career, and unfortunately, even one's perceived life partner or children.
In that framework, knowing what I want and figuring out how to acquire it is considered standard procedure.

However, in the realm of emotions arising from the relationship between the observer and the observed (I noticed you read the previous post, so I won't repeat myself), the rules change entirely.
No one claims to "have" anger, sadness, fear, or envy; rather, one *is* angry, sad, fearful, or envious. Emotions are states of being—they belong to a world defined by BEING.
In that space, knowing what you want and how to get it becomes irrelevant.
What matters instead is knowing what I don't want. By uncovering the truth behind anger, sadness, fear, or envy, those emotions lose their former grip, revealing that their triggers were based on nothing more than false values.

And what of love?
No one can give us love, because that would fall back into the logic of the world of HAVING.
Therefore, if love is possible, it must already exist within us.
Love is also a state of being, part of that world of BEING, yet it does not originate from the material plane, meaning there are no external "triggers" within us to hunt down.
Love is an attribute of the soul, and the soul itself is the love that emanates from the Creator of this universe.
As a result, love must be released. This brings up a logical dilemma: How can we, being so deeply rooted in the material world, release a love (the soul) that did not originate from it?
We achieve this through the application of negation, which is actually the essence of positivity, expressed as follows:
I don't know what it is, but I know what it isn't!

Thus, releasing love involves stripping away everything we recognize as being *not* love. In this process, the soul acts as our greatest guide, as it is the only thing within us that truly knows what is suppressing its expression.

Perhaps this all sounds too simple, which might make it seem disingenuous, but that is merely the trap of the ego. The ego prefers to frame things it cannot control as complex or mystical, using that complexity to justify its own inaction.
I am not suggesting this is easy or swift. Anyone who commits to investigating the truth of these words through dedicated self-work should prepare for a long journey.
If anyone happens to know a simpler way to release love, I invite them to share it.
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:Let's just start from scratch, I guess.

Everything seems fine, I guess.

Believing in something doesn't actually dictate whether that thing is true or false—it just limits our ability to actually *know* if it is. I mean, if it’s a belief, then by definition, it isn't knowledge, and vice versa. But even if we hold a firm belief, that conviction itself won't tell us anything about reality. If we fall into that whole confirmation bias trap—where we only really notice the stuff that backs up what we already think—then all we're doing is reinforcing our own ideas. It feels like it might feel like learning, but it doesn't actually create knowledge. It’s probably pretty important to draw a line between what’s just a belief and what is actual, verifiable knowledge... but then we run into this wall where we have to define what "knowing" even means. Like, what can we say we know with absolute, 100% certainty? Or is everything we call knowledge just a lucky guess combined with being right at the right time? I guess it's a bit of a rabbit hole.

When it comes to sight, I suppose you could say vision is really just a matter of interpretation. You’d think that what we see—what we actually observe with our own eyes—is an objective truth, right? That there wouldn't be any error in it. But honestly, I think that's a bit of a fallacy. Every single bit of perceptual data has to pass through this intense process of selection and interpretation within the brain first. The cortex isn't getting some raw, unadulterated feed of reality; it’s receiving a processed version of it. So, even if everything seems calm and clear, observation isn't some kind of guarantee that what you're seeing is actually accurate. It's unavoidable, really—that information has to travel from the sensory organs to the mind through those interpretive centers. It's just the way the plumbing works. Because of that, I guess a person doesn't truly "know" what they're looking at, either. Even in simple vision, you can't totally rule out the influence of confirmation bias... it's all filtered through what we expect to see.

Hope can actually be a pretty big driver for motivation—though I suppose that’s really just down to how you personally experience things. It’s all very subjective, I guess. For instance, if I don't even let myself believe there's a chance I might succeed, I probably won't even bother trying in the first place. But if I have this gut feeling—this little spark of hope—that it might actually work out, that feeling tends to give me a real boost to go for it. In that sense, you've got this weird mix happening where your actual assessment of the odds and the pure emotional side of things—just that raw feeling—kind of bleed into one another.

And that's where we hit a bit of a snag: whether a delusion is even something you can "believe" in. Your point seems to be that both belief and hope kill motivation. So, if I believe in something or hold onto hope, I’m less driven than if I didn't believe or hope in anything at all.

I have to say, I don't really see it that way. Why? Well, just looking at my own experience and how I seem to function—it doesn't track for me. I don't feel that way at all. In my case, it's actually the opposite; believing in something or having some hope is exactly what keeps me moving. If there's no belief or hope involved, then, honestly, I probably wouldn't even have the will to believe in the first place.

It might just be a highly individual thing, though. Maybe if anyone took a hard look at themselves, they'd realize what actually drives them personally. I just can't get behind these kinds of broad generalizations.

Naturally, we have enriched 🙂
Belief does not dictate whether something exists or not—it merely limits our ability to know whether it does. If one holds a belief, one lacks knowledge, and vice versa.
Furthermore, if we believe in something, that belief provides no actual insight into its objective reality.

a/a
If we only perceive what confirms our existing biases (confirmation bias), then our perceptions will simply reinforce our preconceived notions without ever generating true knowledge. While distinguishing belief from genuine knowledge is a desirable goal, we encounter a fundamental problem: how do we actually define what constitutes knowledge? How can we be certain that what we claim to know isn't merely a matter of being lucky or holding a correct opinion?

We also see only what the brain recognizes through the lens of prior knowledge.
Knowledge consists of past experiences articulated as opinion.
Regarding sight, vision is essentially an act of interpretation. One might assume that what we observe is inherently accurate, but there is significant potential for error. Every bit of perceptual data undergoes a process of selection and interpretation within the brain; the cortex does not receive raw data, but rather processed information. Consequently, observation offers no guarantee of accuracy, regardless of how calm the observer may be. Passing through the brain's interpretive centers is an unavoidable necessity, as this is the standard pathway for information traveling from the senses to the mind. Therefore, a person does not even truly "know" what they see, and even visual perception is not immune to confirmation bias.

To accept that you are reading this text requires no interpretation whatsoever. This is a direct reality.
By what path does intuition travel?
Hope can serve to increase motivation; it is a matter of subjective experience. For instance, if I lack hope that an endeavor might succeed, I will likely not attempt it at all, whereas a sense of possibility increases my drive to try. In this scenario, the assessment of success and the emotional component are inextricably linked.

We have reached a problematic juncture here: whether an illusion qualifies as an object of belief. Your thesis suggests that both belief and hope diminish the motivation to act. Essentially, you are arguing that if I believe in something and hope for it, I am less motivated than if I were to hold neither belief nor hope.

I find myself in disagreement with that notion. Based on my own experience and my understanding of my own psychological mechanics, that does not apply to me. I do not feel that way at all. In my case, the reality is quite the opposite; it is precisely belief and hope that provide my motivation. Without them, I find I lack even the will to believe.

I find myself driven toward self-improvement primarily because, when I look back at my progress, the results are simply immeasurable.
It is entirely possible that this is a deeply individual matter, where anyone who takes the time for self-reflection can uncover their own unique source of motivation. I cannot bring myself to agree with such sweeping generalizations.

My intention was merely to highlight the pitfalls inherent in relying on blind faith and hope. In our subsequent discussions, I have attempted to illustrate how one can function effectively without them. Furthermore, I have advocated for a balanced scrutiny of all arguments presented—an approach I have applied to my own views. This same standard of critical thinking should apply to emotions rooted in interpersonal relationships.
It seems to me that we have reached a point of fundamental misunderstanding.

If I have managed to encourage even one person to stop relying on unconscious beliefs or baseless hope, then the purpose of this dialogue has been fulfilled.

Choosing to use those tools consciously is a personal prerogative that everyone is entitled to exercise. 🙂
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:Or maybe it's just a subjective call—you know, based on how someone perceives things from thousands of years ago compared to how they see everything today?

Why couldn't the truth just be somewhere in the middle?

EDIT:

You seem convinced that I am simply a slave to opinion, while simultaneously maintaining that reality can only be perceived through a tranquil mind. In your eyes, I suppose I appear quite hypocritical in my pursuit of being correct.
Psychologically speaking, humans remain inherently grasping creatures, and no amount of faith has ever managed to alter that fundamental nature.
Why couldn't the truth lie somewhere in the middle?

I have certainly started from a specific point, but this is an experience I have lived; I am discussing something felt, rather than some dry, theoretical assumption.
We began with hope and conviction. What we are discussing now has drifted far from the original subject. I presented certain arguments to you, which you failed to refute. If you intend to prove a thesis, you must dismantle the counterarguments.

I am not deviating. My intention is to suggest that faith and hope are not strictly necessary, as more efficient methods exist, yet you have already decided your position.
What exactly prevents you from allowing absolutely nothing to remain beyond question in your research? Naturally, one must begin somewhere, but even that starting point must be open to scrutiny.
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:How did you land on bipolarity when bipolarity doesn't even exist here?

You can't just declare that religious results are non-existent, that's a bit of an oversimplification, isn't it?
I agree that quieting the mind (the brain) is a good thing, though I tend to view it as a specific type of mental development aimed at achieving and maintaining harmony with the soul.

I don't really know what defines whether a brain receives signals from the soul. Maybe it's just something given, you know? I spent a good part of my life assuming everyone was the same but just listened differently, though now I'm not so sure. It’s possible some people simply receive nothing because they aren't currently tuned into these lessons. Either way, we can find common ground here, since we're all receiving something—you, the others, myself—we have that connection.

Understanding is dynamic. Everything I'm saying is based on current realizations, but if I only spoke about what I am 100% certain of—just as you would if you only stuck to what you were 100% sure of—our interactions would probably be much shorter. Would that be better? I don't think so. Even if half of it is nonsense, it's worth it for the other half. It's worth exchanging views.

From what I’ve gathered over the years—just my own little take on things—I see life as this sort of shifting stage. You know? You spend all this time mastering one specific area, reaching this peak where everything finally makes sense, and then suddenly... the scenery changes. Just like that. You find yourself dropped into a completely different set of circumstances, and honestly, you aren't always ready for them. Maybe you're a bit out of your depth, I guess. I remember a period in my life where I was living so "right"—if that makes sense—that it actually started affecting my perception. It sounds strange, but the world literally started looking whiter to me, brighter, almost washed out. It was this intense clarity I’d only ever felt once before. But then, the stage shifted again. I hit this much heavier, more visceral experience—something far more intense than my supposed "goodness" could handle at the time. It felt like a tempering process, I suppose. Like being forged in fire. I tend to think that the people who truly become the best have to go through the most grueling trials, just so their true character can be burned away until only the essential parts remain. It reminds me a bit of those old stories about the Cross—that idea of suffering being necessary to reach a higher state.

I guess I don't really have much to say about this—it’s just one of those things that sits in the back of my mind, I suppose. Maybe I'm overthinking it, or maybe I'm just looking at it from the wrong angle, but there isn't much else to add, really. Just a thought. [Paul Jones7] says:
When I was talking about that whole "knowing what I don't want" thing—you know, that feeling where you can pinpoint exactly what isn't working—I wasn't really aiming at some outside force or external circumstances. It was more about those internal conditions... I guess you could say it's all about how we're wired on the inside, maybe.
Look, people just don't work that way—not really. Most folks are basically just chasing after whatever feels good while running full tilt away from anything that feels uncomfortable. They just follow their impulses, I guess. There’s no real questioning of what actually constitutes pleasure or pain, because, well, if you start digging into that, it gets a little too close to home for the ego. It's safer to just keep moving.

Ugh... honestly, this might be one of those truths that’s just plain hard to swallow. 😢 I honestly think this is the ultimate test of being alive—just the fact that everything you do, every single thought you have, triggers some kind of chemical reaction in your brain, whether it’s a rush of pleasure or a dip into discomfort. Getting past all that... I don't know, reaching a state where you're actually above those biological impulses seems like an almost impossible feat. Personally? I fail at it constantly. It’s a bit humbling to realize I'm basically just a slave to my own chemistry. But then I look around at everyone else and, well, it feels like we’re all just slaves to something, doesn't it? I genuinely can't point to anyone who seems truly free from it. It's like there's this constant tug-of-war between that physical dopamine hit and what people call actual, pure spiritual happiness. It's a strange loop.

I guess there isn't much to say here—just a bit of a placeholder, I suppose. Maybe I'll find something worth rambling about later, once I've had enough coffee to actually form a coherent thought. We'll see. kaže:
Emotions—well, excluding love, I suppose—are really just a byproduct of how our ego reacts to what we think we know about the world around us. It’s kind of like... you aren't actually angry at the thing itself, right? You’re just reacting to your own internal opinion of that thing. So, I guess emotions are technically real, but the trigger for them is this sort of illusion—this idea that there's a clear line between the observer and the thing being observed. But there isn't, really. Not in the way we think.
Once you finally realize—really, truly grasp it—that there isn't actually any separation between the one watching and the thing being watched... well, I guess all those messy emotions just sort of evaporate. They don't even leave a trace. All that's left is love.

If we aren't all sharing the same soul—which, let's be honest, most of us probably aren't—then I guess individuality isn't just some kind of trick or an illusion... it’s actually real.

It’s like you can't help yourself—I’ve been noticing this little pattern with you lately. You seem almost... I don't know, a bit like a slave to whatever you read, which, if I'm being honest, probably goes hand in hand with how you process things mentally. Maybe it's just me, but it feels like you're stuck in a loop.

I guess I’m just sitting here thinking about how much things change over time—it's funny, really—but anyway, I was just reflecting on some stuff... maybe it's nothing, but I felt like sharing. kaže:
Look, I’m not trying to push anything on you—really, I’m not. And honestly, I can't just hand you the truth on a silver platter, because if I did, you’d probably just accept it or toss it aside based entirely on whether you already believe in it or not. That’s just not how truth reveals itself, I guess. But, just so you don't get stuck in some kind of mental loop—you know, a dogma—you should probably question things. Dig deeper. At the end of the day, maybe the only thing that can actually show you what's true is your own soul. 🙂

You know, you actually said yourself that I’m not one for dogmas. The whole narrative I’ve been building in my head throughout my adult life—if I had to pin it down—is just... dynamics. I mean, look, if I agreed with your version of the "truth" completely, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, would we? There’s just this nagging feeling deep down—part logic, part gut instinct, I guess—telling me that this isn't the whole story. It feels incomplete, or maybe just too narrow. And then you go and suggest tossing out these concepts entirely because they don't fit into a neat little box... well, it’s just not going to work that way. I suspect it'll just be your ego stepping in, trying to force you to stay convinced that your conclusion is the only right one.

A historical figure
whether you care to admit it or not, I find you to be somewhat of a slave to what you read, much as you are to your own mental constructs.

It hasn't occurred to you that I might actually be the author of the very things I am discussing?
.... it won't work. It will be your ego that compels you to insist upon the infallibility of your own conclusion.

While that was never my intention, I apologize if I have inadvertently triggered your need for psychological defense.
I personally feel no such necessity, as for me, the observer and the observed are one and the same.
🙂
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Anonymous said:We don't just stumble upon those defining moments or life-changing realizations out of thin air. Isn't it more likely that we’re actually manufacturing them ourselves through our own constant questioning? It's a perpetual motion machine.

I don't see it as being two-faced. Honestly, that’s just reality for everyone. Ego is inevitable. But having a negative ego isn't something you're stuck with—you can actually dismantle that part of yourself through dedicated personal work.

Nothing has been set aside. Personality is built upon the foundation of the soul, but because that soul lacked a clear blueprint of its own essence, it began crafting itself out of raw life experience. If you really think about it, people often claim the ego is just a "false self." But if that’s true, then where does the real me actually live? If we have fundamentally changed our true selves, then the "real" version doesn't exist anymore—only this false one remains. Or, perhaps the truth is that the real self (the essence, the soul) coexists alongside us—but if that's the case, then we're essentially talking about two different people.

Milo is being a little too precious about sticking to the facts, don't you think?
I’m talking about that sense of duality that comes through in the way you express yourself. It’s all those classic contradictions—the soul versus the ego, light versus dark, the mask we wear versus who we actually are, the internal struggle versus the external world. These are all forms of dualism. But honestly, can we ever truly move forward if we view our very essence as being split in two? I'm sure you've heard of the yin-yang symbol; try to look at things through that lens.
Can you actually have black without white? Or white without black? Sure, if we just zoom in on one side and try to draw some conclusions, but at what cost? Are we even seeing the full picture then? Are we seeing reality at all? Think about it: a black segment has a white speck, and a white segment has a black dot. Can we even call them perfect opposites anymore? That "black" part might just be a fake black because of that white spot, right? And the white could be a total illusion too. We could probably spin a million different versions of "our own reality" based on that single symbol. But if we’re constantly obsessed with these binary opposites, do we even see the symbol itself? Do we catch that moment where one shade bleeds into the next in constant motion?

Looking back at my life and how I handle things, I’ve noticed these moments where I feel like I’m acting "outside" of myself. It’s like I’m following these sudden intuitive hits, landing on insights that are way sharper than anything my logical brain could ever cook up on its own. It all happens in a split second—these perfectly timed reactions that my usual, clumsy self wouldn't stand a chance of pulling off. That’s when it clicked for me: that’s my higher self at work. The thing is, I don't actually experience the inner monologue or the flow of thoughts from this higher consciousness while it's watching over me. I don't get to see the process; I just get the finished product—the sudden, conscious impact it has on my awareness. To me, there isn't any other way to explain it besides seeing it as a distinct entity, a smarter version of us. A truer version. Our everyday personality? That’s just the surface-level projection.

You’ve hit on something really profound here. I want to ask—during those moments when you feel like you're "out of body," does that constant mental chatter just... stop? Does the brain quit trying to solve problems, make assumptions, or hunt for answers using its usual logic? It’s almost like a total mental paralysis. I suspect it does, because honestly, that seems to be the rule for all of us. If that’s the case, can you actually trigger this state on purpose? If you can consciously force yourself into a headspace where thoughts vanish, then doesn't that mean you're the one in control of the whole experience? And if you are, can we even call it an "out of body" experience anymore, or is it just a deeper version of *you*? Think about it: could you become the intuitive spark or that sudden flash of brilliance exactly when it matters most? Could you be the conscious force directing the flame, all by yourself? Is it possible for "you" to be the sole architect of all of it?

What I haven't quite figured out yet is how the personality and the soul actually connect. They have to be linked, but they also seem to function as separate entities. I’d be lying if I said I had a crystal-clear picture of it.

You aren't alone in this.
My own perspective gets blurry all the time too. 🙂
Understanding the concept of Yin and Yang really helped me out. I recently picked up on it during some holistic energy seminars, and it started clicking.
If you look strictly at the personality, something feels missing—it feels incomplete and confusing (even for me, personally), even though most people take it for granted.
But if you look strictly at the soul, it feels supernatural, mystical, or like something external helping us (which makes me wonder: why do people say the soul leaves the body at the moment of death?)
When we look at the Yin-Yang symbol, we see a whole, and most importantly, we see BALANCE. We see two things in perfect symbiosis, harmony, and constant motion. We see ONE.
It makes total sense to ask: so what’s wrong? It's the lack of harmony. We created an imbalance by separating them.
My ego still tends to dominate my soul. I still catch myself thinking I’m smarter than I am or that I have all the answers. And then, out of nowhere, a cry from my soul jolts me awake, reminding me that everything is out of alignment.

I’m not some "awakened" being who chats with their higher self or perceives spiritual dimensions. For me, information comes in pure intuitive flashes, impulses, or random thoughts. Sometimes I'll write a sentence that feels inspired, without even knowing where it came from. Or lyrics just pop into my head. There are these subtle feelings too—not exactly emotions, but a different kind of sensation. Like that feeling when you realize the pieces of a puzzle are finally fitting together, or conversely, when you just know something isn't right.

Welcome to the club. 🙂
I'm still just wading into these spiritual waters myself. I'm nowhere near the surface yet, but I'm definitely enjoying the dive.

I don't quite follow your point there; could you elaborate a little? Though the core idea definitely holds water.

That's great 🙂 and your success is proof that you're on the right path.

You have a continuous line of communication? That's awesome.

I experience emotions much like I experience physical pain—as a signal. I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I don't think emotions should be shut down or suppressed; instead, they should be balanced and mastered. Take marketing, for example; they know that emotion is the key to reaching a person and delivering a message from a brand. Sure, it can be manipulation, but the point is that humans expect emotion to open up. People function through emotion; it's part of the human blueprint.

So, emotions can actually be purposeful tools for guidance. Maybe someone who is extremely, deeply elevated doesn't need them, but for the average person, they are incredibly useful. If you're sad... why are you sad? If you're anxious... why are you anxious? There's such a thing as emotional blocking. Living in a state of adult ego with zero emotional charge... I don't think those blocks are a good thing. I assume that's not what you meant.

It isn't just arrogant; it is fundamentally incorrect. 😕

The brain functions by scanning through stored memories to identify patterns within a current situation.
In those moments when the mind is preoccupied with its own internal archives, it loses touch with immediate surroundings and misses what is actually happening—much like how someone lost in thought might walk straight into a wall or bump into a stranger because they simply weren't looking where they were going.

Furthermore, thoughts are merely reactions based on knowledge gathered from past experiences, occurring in a different time and place.
Consequently, while the mind is tethered to its existing knowledge, it perceives things as they were "then and there," rather than as they are "here and now."
Through a series of mental associations, the brain mistakenly equates the present moment with those distant, past instances.
This creates the illusion that daily life is repetitive, even though reality is anything but predictable, particularly in this fast-paced modern world.

A person who fails to observe actual reality is frequently caught off guard by it, often painfully so. Unaware of the truth 🤷, they tend to seek solace in mere belief and wishful thinking.

To truly perceive reality, the brain must cease retreating into established knowledge; it must enter a state of not knowing, which allows it to become quiet, attentive, and genuinely curious. 🙂
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
True friendship isn't found in the grand gestures or the loud declarations of loyalty we see played out in movies; rather, it exists in those quiet, unremarkable moments where silence feels entirely comfortable. It is a steady, low-frequency hum in the background of a life, less about constant activity and more about the reliable presence of someone who understands your rhythms without needing an explanation. Most connections are merely transactional or situational, dissolving once the common interest fades, but a genuine bond is built on a foundation of shared history and a mutual, unspoken understanding that requires very little maintenance to remain intact. dustyraven26 says:
The way I see it, every individual carries their own soul—an entirely different entity that exists within the spiritual realm. A soul possesses its own agency and capabilities, while faith is simply the process of bringing oneself into harmony with that inner essence. When we experience the soul acting on our behalf, it isn't some external intervention or outside assistance; it is our own self-providing. It is us. It just happens that this part of our being maintains its own distinct consciousness, separate from the personality we present to the world.

From a psychological standpoint, bipolar disorder can be incredibly dangerous.
Since you prefer questioning over blind dogma, consider this possibility:
Man is a complex creature, yet he remains fundamentally singular. Within him exist two distinct components: the spiritual, expressed through the soul, and the temporal, manifested through the brain.
It is quite simple to distinguish them: the spiritual path seeks to simply be, whereas the secular one focuses entirely on having.
To achieve true harmony in this life, one must ensure that both fundamental components remain in perfect balance.
In reality, the spiritual component—the soul—remains unfulfilled because we have allowed the secular machinery of the brain to dominate our existence.
Religions operate on similar premises, yet they have ultimately embraced a secularized ethos: leave me alone and let me focus on my spiritual growth. Historically speaking, the results have been nonexistent.
Consider the following possibility:
The spiritual component doesn't belong to the secular realm; it resides within the domain of God, and no amount of intellectual maneuvering can ever hope to strengthen it.
What remains, then, is the question of what can actually be achieved.
To quiet the secular component—the analytical mind—one must realize that forcing it only creates more noise. You cannot argue a rational brain into silence through sheer willpower; that is a logical paradox. Instead, the objective is to guide it toward the realization that stillness is its own form of efficiency. It must reach the conclusion itself that letting go is the most practical path forward.
The human brain possesses a singular, rather uncompromising characteristic: once it finally grasps a fundamental truth, it will ruthlessly discard any illusion, regardless of how deeply one previously clung to that deception.
Who exactly is capable of guiding the mind toward the truth?
The soul takes precedence over intuition. Yet, for the mind to truly hear it, one must first cultivate a state of profound uncertainty and constant questioning.
True friendship isn't found in the loud, performative gestures that social media seems to demand of us nowadays; rather, it exists in those quiet, unremarkable moments where silence feels entirely comfortable. It is an understated steadying force, much like a reliable old car that starts every single morning without complaint, providing a sense of continuity in an otherwise chaotic world. One doesn't need a crowd to feel supported, just a few souls who understand the nuances of your character without requiring a constant explanation. dustyraven26 says:
I recall a period in my life when I approached matters in much the same way. I find myself in agreement: knowing exactly what you refuse to tolerate provides a certain necessary focus for problem-solving. That said, I wouldn't suggest that one excludes the other; they can certainly coexist. I have come to realize there is nothing wrong with maintaining a positive vision as well. While avoiding what you don't want is a valid strategy that effectively resolves many issues, you may occasionally find that something essential remains missing.

Whether an image is perceived as positive or negative is merely a product of cognitive processing; it is, by definition, a secular phenomenon.
I have spent my entire life perceiving the world this way—as if it were nothing more than a series of endless traps.

Is this perhaps an echo of that old religious notion—that God puts us through these trials just to test our resolve?
I assume.

Dedicate yourself to the pursuit of truth, and let the facts reveal themselves in their own time.
I tend to take a middle ground; I find it difficult to be categorized so easily. My progression occurred in stages, often driven by the realization of what I would not accept. This clarity came through direct experience—you live through something, and you conclude it isn't for you. That is how most people navigate life, in a sense.

When I pointed out the concept of "knowing what I won't do," my focus wasn't on external factors, but rather on internal conditioning.
The reality is that people don't function that way at all. They are simply chasing comfort and fleeing from discomfort, following their immediate experiences without question. There is no questioning whether something constitutes pleasure or pain, because such an inquiry poses a threat to the ego.
That said, it is useful to articulate it this way. Something I personally should work on, and would not mind mastering, is emotional regulation.

Emotions, with the exception of love, are products of the relationship between the observer's ego and its perception of the observed (the observer does not get angry at the object itself, but at their own opinion of that object). Thus, while emotions feel real, their trigger is the illusion that the observer and the observed are separate entities.
Once one realizes, in their full wholeness, that the observer and the observed are one, those emotions dissipate. All that remains is love.
I have no issue with hope or expectations, and I don't even view belief as a problem—belief is merely a concept. In the grander, more absolute sense, it is a state of being, much like love itself.

I am not imposing anything on you. I cannot hand you the truth, because you would inevitably accept or reject whatever I say based on whether you believe it or not. That is not how truth is revealed. However, to avoid getting stuck in self-evident dogma, you must question. Only the soul can provide you with the truth regarding that. 🙂
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Friendship is often treated as a grand, sweeping concept, yet its true value lies in the quiet, unexamined moments of consistency between two people. It isn't found in the performative gestures or the loud declarations of loyalty we see in cinema, but rather in the steady presence of someone who understands your silence as clearly as your speech. There is a certain dignity in a connection that requires no constant maintenance, a bond that exists comfortably in the spaces between conversations. Real companionship is less about shared interests and more about a mutual, unspoken recognition of character. dustyraven26 says:
What exactly would constitute this supposed "calm mind"?

A mind that refuses to play word games, choosing instead to observe exactly what is unfolding here and now.
I was referring to the totality of reality—both what is visible and what remains hidden. Lately, there seems to be a recurring trend on this forum involving certain individuals who present themselves as all-knowing or all-seeing. Are you suggesting that you possess such an absolute grasp of the entirety of existence?

I don't see the whole picture. To be honest, I have no desire to see it, because once the brain recognizes a pattern, it stops truly observing. It simply retreats into its own established knowledge—its own preconceived notions. From that point on, every perception and action is merely a byproduct of what it already thinks it knows.
Intuition serves as a reliable conduit for answering any question one might pose, yet this faculty remains inaccessible unless the mind is sufficiently stilled to allow it to surface.
I am not entirely certain I follow your logic... are you suggesting that one should proceed based on the principle of "knowing what to avoid," or are you claiming that such an approach is actually the root of the problem?

A man physically restrained by ropes isn't going to suddenly pivot toward faith or abstract hope; he is going to look for a way to get loose. It is quite simple, really. He acts because his confinement is an undeniable, tangible reality right in front of his eyes.
Because he remains blind to the true origins of his attachment to material things and worldly pursuits, he retreats into a hollow reliance on faith and hope. In doing so, they find their refuge within the void of what will never be.
To put it simply, a man driven by restlessness shouldn't waste his energy trying to define what peace looks like; he shouldn't bother constructing an idealized image of tranquility. Instead, he ought to focus on identifying and dismantling the specific sources of his own agitation—those things he cannot accept. Once he successfully removes every catalyst for his unrest, he will encounter a profound, genuine sense of peace that he could never have previously imagined.
Not everything that claims to be faith truly earns the title, just as not every feeling we call love actually possesses its essence.

It appears we have encountered yet another opportunity for the kind of misguided indoctrination mentioned in the opening post, specifically regarding the manipulation of faith and hope.
Does it not strike you that there are simply too many traps in this setup?
True, but one has to start somewhere, typically through some form of initial encounter. Confidence, as you noted, is merely the byproduct of experience gained over time. However, I find myself wondering if experience alone is sufficient, or if there must also be an underlying sense of optimism—a fundamental belief that things will ultimately work out.

It might be worth looking toward the lived experiences of others, particularly parents. Children are naturally wired to learn through imitation.
Hold on a second—dreams are dreams, and emotions are emotions. You might be trying to bridge the two through some sort of astral connection, but they simply aren't the same thing, so let's slow down.

I was actually referring to the experience of emotions during sleep.
Otherwise, I agree with the assessment, though I would add that the same applies to thoughts; they aren't rooted in reality itself, but rather in how an individual perceives what they believe to be reality.

Agreed. Thoughts are simply the reaction of knowledge based upon that relationship.
?

We are both striving for the same thing: to become what the creator intended us to be. Is that not so?
When it comes to you, I get the impression you aim to reach that state through a sort of "I know what I want" approach, built upon conviction and hope.
As for me, I have no desire to "know" anything about it—perhaps I wouldn't even grasp it if I tried—but the truth of my own being, revealed through various layers of conditioning, points toward what I *don't* want and what I must ultimately let go of.
P.S. After two years of intense inner work, my mind has grown quite quiet, unconditional love has become palpable, and my intuition is finally showing its first signs of life. 🙂
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:That all sounds nice and all, but I don't think that actually answers what reality *is*. If we're basing everything on perception, there's always this chance that our perception isn't quite right. Honestly, it's almost certain that it isn't. There's just so much we don't know.

I wouldn't put those two in the same bucket, personally. With "hope," I don't really feel anything. But with "belief"—well, that triggers something specific. My concept of faith is its own thing. It warms the heart, I guess; it creates this kind of flow, similar to how happiness might fill you, or maybe like music that lifts your spirit... sort of like a pure thought.

Whatever is, is.

Oh, you don't come off that way. I didn't get that impression at all. It just felt like you were advocating for one specific school of thought that's detached from emotion. Though, it bothered me a little because it almost feels like you're being exclusive. Maybe you don't mean it that way, but it comes across as if you're trying to suggest that belief and hope are purely harmful.

Faith is pretty close to love, but I think it needs a bit more explanation. To me, believing is this complex thing made up of a mental stance (the belief itself) and then this irrational side, which is the feeling. That feeling of faith...

It all gets kind of tangled up there—I mean, what even is belief? Is it just a mental posture, or is it the whole package, combining that conscious mindset with the more irrational, gut-level stuff? I suppose everyone ends up with their own little version of what belief actually looks like.

Then you have psychology stepping in, suggesting that self-confidence is a healthy way to be—basically the hallmark of successful people. So, I don't think I can just toss out that mental component as being useless, even if I personally feel like that deeper, more intuitive side of belief carries a bit more weight.

As for emotions... if you look at it like a horse-drawn carriage, emotions are the horses. They provide the pull, sure, but they really need to be reigned in.

There’s a distinction between desire and need that probably deserves its own deep dive. Like you mentioned, you grouped them together because desire feels broader than just a need—we can certainly crave things we don't actually require. But then again, we often find ourselves doing things we have zero desire to do simply because they're necessary. I guess you could argue that need is what births desire, meaning every fulfilled need eventually traces back to a want.

For me, though, that difference matters. I tend to think that fulfilling needs—both our own and others'—is what keeps a person on the path toward the light, whereas chasing pure desire might actually lead someone astray. It’s probably why people say you should be careful what you wish for, lest you actually get it.

To truly perceive reality as it exists, one’s mind must reach a state of absolute stillness; otherwise, what we call sight is merely an elaborate tapestry woven by the brain through a series of associative leaps—a subjective hallucination rather than objective truth.
You aren't leaving me behind; I never had that impression to begin with. My observation was simply that you seem to be championing a specific school of thought—one that seeks to operate entirely free from the influence of emotion.

My personal observation is this: a tranquil mind and any sort of structured mental discipline are fundamentally incompatible.
I found myself somewhat unsettled by your position, as there is an underlying sense of exclusivity in your argument. While that may not be your intention, you seem to be framing the concepts of faith and hope as being inherently and exclusively detrimental.

There is truth in that. I used to be inclined to believe they could coexist, but after realizing that an individual can reach their goals through sheer will without relying on faith or hope, I have moved past that notion. To put it simply,
History tends to prove me wrong whenever I suggest that the simple claim of "knowing what one wants"—a necessary prerequisite for any coherent belief or hope, regardless of how noble the intentions might be—has ever actually resulted in a widespread transformation of human society.
The solution lies in knowing exactly what one refuses to accept, yet the mystery of identifying that specific refusal is precisely what keeps a person trapped in their current circumstances.
Faith is intimately connected to love, though it requires a bit of nuance to fully grasp. It is a multifaceted phenomenon, composed of a singular mental posture—the belief itself—intertwined with an irrational, visceral component: the actual feeling of faith.

The behavior of many believers serves as a quiet, persistent contradiction to the idea that faith and love are inherently linked.
Psychology suggests that self-confidence is a fundamentally healthy disposition, characteristic of those who achieve success. Consequently, I find myself unable to dismiss the mental component of belief as anything less than valuable, even if I personally consider the emotional depth of conviction to be the more significant element.

Confidence isn't some innate gift you're born with; it is something earned through the quiet accumulation of successful actions.
Think of emotions as horses pulling a carriage; they possess significant power and drive, yet they require steady reins to ensure they pull you toward your destination rather than bolting off into the wilderness.

Dreams serve as definitive proof that our emotions aren't actually rooted in reality, but rather in our individual perception of what we believe to be true.

LOVE ISN'T A RELATIONSHIP; IT IS A STATE OF BEING THAT CANNOT BE DREAMED INTO EXISTENCE!

There is a distinction between desire and necessity that warrants its own consideration, specifically regarding what we truly need. As you pointed out, they are intertwined, because desire often transcends simple necessity; we can certainly crave things that serve no actual purpose in our lives. Conversely, we frequently find ourselves performing tasks we have no desire to complete simply because they are required. One might argue that necessity gives rise to desire, suggesting that behind every fulfilled need lies an underlying want.
To me, however, this distinction is vital. I believe that addressing needs—both our own and those of others—is what guides a person toward the light, whereas chasing mere desires can lead one astray. This is precisely why there is wisdom in being cautious with one's own wishes, lest they be granted too easily.

A distinction arising from fundamental
Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion? in Spirituality ·
Paul Jones7 said:I mean, if we’re actually going to tackle whether someone is escaping reality, we first have to figure out what reality even is—which, let's be honest, is a bit of a rabbit hole. I guess you can't really answer a question about running away from something unless you know exactly what you're running from in the first place. Is reality just this physical stuff we can see and touch? Or is there more to it? Without settling that, any answer about escapism feels kind of half-baked, maybe even a little pointless.

I think you might be generalizing a bit too much here—it’s not always an either-or situation. Why couldn't both options be on the table at once? I should probably add, though—just my two cents—that faith, as I see it, isn't just something that motivates you to act; sometimes, faith actually *is* the action itself. I know New Age stuff can easily slide into being total materialistic bullshit, but then again, even the Bible talks about acting through faith. If you want some actual quotes to back me up, just let me know.

A desire is just a desire—it stands on its own. I guess you could say all the other pieces of the puzzle can just sort of... coexist alongside it, if that makes sense. Or maybe it doesn't, but that's just how I see it.

You missed one part of my question—let me try to rephrase it so it’s a bit clearer. If you were to strip away all those emotional components that you consider useless, what exactly does a person become? Are we talking about some kind of *homo rationalis*? And is that even something we should be aiming for? I mean, if it isn't the ideal, then where do we draw the line? Which emotions actually hold value? Also, I've been wondering... should we really be looking at life through the lens of utility alone?

Are you actually sure that this whole setup—all these beliefs and hopes we cling to—isn't just some kind of wishful thinking? I mean, maybe we're all just looking at things through a lens that makes us feel better about our own emotional imbalances... I guess it's possible we're just trying to justify why everything feels a bit off.

By the way, there’s this other thing—this whole other driver that gets people moving—that isn't actually desire... it’s more like the total opposite of what most people think a motive should be: it’s necessity

One part of this reality is simply that we struggle to endure certain things: external interference, the sudden interruption of pleasure just as one begins to experience it, and the sheer persistence of discomfort.
The way one perceives reality is its own distinct narrative, whether that manifests as accumulated knowledge or a sudden flash of insight.
I suspect you’re oversimplifying this into a false dichotomy. Why limit ourselves to an either-or scenario when both possibilities could be true simultaneously? It is worth noting that faith, as I perceive it, does more than merely serve as a catalyst for action; it can actually constitute the action itself. While certain New Age philosophies often devolve into materialistic nonsense, even the Bible speaks extensively about the necessity of acting through faith. If you require specific citations to support this, just let me know.

Try to actually sit with the sensation that arises when you utter the phrases, "I believe..." or "I hope..."
A desire is simply a desire; all other components can exist alongside it, as I see it.

🤷
You missed one point, so let me rephrase it: if you were to strip away all those emotional components you deem useless, what exactly would be left of a person? Would we simply become *homo rationalis*? Is that even an ideal worth striving for? If it isn't, where are the exceptions, and which specific emotions actually hold value? Furthermore, should one view the entirety of existence through the narrow lens of utility alone?
Are you certain this depiction—this interplay of beliefs and aspirations—isn't merely a form of wishful thinking designed to justify one's own emotional imbalance?

I approached it indirectly, by posing a single question: What could possibly hold more weight than love?
I am mindful that I can sometimes project an air of detachment, though this perception rarely aligns with my actual experience when it comes to matters of the heart. Regarding other emotions, I previously illustrated my perspective using anger as an example—specifically how it stems from unmet expectations. Once you shift your focus away from the anger itself and toward the underlying expectations, the anger tends to dissipate on its own.
As an aside, there is another force that drives people toward action, one that stands in direct opposition to desire; it is the sense of necessity.

I find myself in agreement; I included her in the equation of desire because I simply failed to perceive the opposition you clearly see. It is my conviction that the fulfillment of one's own needs is fundamentally rooted in a drive for autonomy.