Faith and hope: a necessity or a delusion?

Anyone genuinely committed to improving their circumstances must act in direct alignment with those intentions. Such action can only occur within the reality of the "here and now," because the concept of "there and then" is a fiction that simply does not exist.

In observing how belief and hope influence the human psyche, I have noted several patterns:

A person can only truly believe in what they cannot currently see or experience in the present moment. It is a known phenomenon that if one maintains a belief long enough, they begin to perceive it visually. However, at that stage, what they are seeing is not objective reality, but rather a mental projection—a waking dream—which can lead to severe psychological trauma when it inevitably clashes with actual reality.

Furthermore, the mere hope that things will improve "someday"—whether through fate or the intervention of others—serves only to diminish the drive required to take meaningful action today. In its purest essence, hope acts as an escape mechanism, allowing one to bypass the necessity of acting in the present.

Because of these dynamics, I hold the view that

Belief and hope are dangerous delusions; they erode the motivation needed to engage with the real world. By encouraging an escape from reality, they render a life stagnant, ritualistic, and ultimately precarious, posing a significant risk to one's mental stability.

Based on these observations, and without indulging in hypothetical scenarios, I am inclined to assert that religious faith exerts a negative influence on individuals by further fueling this tendency toward belief and passive hope.

Please share your thoughts.

Honestly, I’m starting to feel the same way... the more time passes, the clearer it becomes.
The most fascinating part is when someone finally realizes this truth; it triggers a struggle so profound that even the most unhinged prophets couldn't begin to describe it if they were predicting the end of days.
So, it isn't surprising that believers find it such a massive hurdle to transition into atheism, regardless of how many facts are laid out in front of them.

granitebadger30 said:Honestly, I’m starting to feel the same way... the more time passes, the clearer it becomes.
The most fascinating part is when someone finally realizes this truth; it triggers a struggle so profound that even the most unhinged prophets couldn't begin to describe it if they were predicting the end of days.
So, it isn't surprising that believers find it such a massive hurdle to transition into atheism, regardless of how many facts are laid out in front of them.

Atheism is just another form of faith—specifically, the faith that God does not exist. 😲

I believe that both faith and hope should be discarded as methods of engagement in favor of a dedicated pursuit of the truth. Humans are perfectly capable of doing just that.

dustyraven26 said:Atheism is just another form of faith—specifically, the faith that God does not exist. 😲

I believe that both faith and hope should be discarded as methods of engagement in favor of a dedicated pursuit of the truth. Humans are perfectly capable of doing just that.

Look, as an atheist, I don't believe in God and I'm not expecting a single thing from Him. Honestly, the whole concept is totally foreign to me. I’m perfectly fine with using the term to describe something beyond our limited human comprehension—like the sheer scale of reality, the awe of an infinite universe, or even that > "God" concept.

So, atheism isn't really believing that God doesn't exist.

A theist actually believes God is going to step in, help them out, grant wishes, or grant immortality.
It’s basically the difference between worshippers and everyone else—those who don't pray to or believe in a deity, whatever that may be. ☕

Belief is usually boxed in by rigid dogma. Every phrase and word has been strictly mapped out by theologians long ago. There's no room for actual curiosity, exploration, or keeping your eyes open; it's just repeating mental scripts handed down from the past. That’s a death sentence for any kind of genuine spirituality.

Anthony Perez9 said:Look, as an atheist, I don't believe in God and I'm not expecting a single thing from Him. Honestly, the whole concept is totally foreign to me. I’m perfectly fine with using the term to describe something beyond our limited human comprehension—like the sheer scale of reality, the awe of an infinite universe, or even that > "God" concept.

So, atheism isn't really believing that God doesn't exist.

A theist actually believes God is going to step in, help them out, grant wishes, or grant immortality.
It’s basically the difference between worshippers and everyone else—those who don't pray to or believe in a deity, whatever that may be. ☕

Belief is usually boxed in by rigid dogma. Every phrase and word has been strictly mapped out by theologians long ago. There's no room for actual curiosity, exploration, or keeping your eyes open; it's just repeating mental scripts handed down from the past. That’s a death sentence for any kind of genuine spirituality.

But look at deists, pantheists, or panentheists—they fall under the theist umbrella too, yet they aren't sitting around waiting for a divine handout.

Anthony Perez9 said:Look, as an atheist, I don't believe in God and I'm not expecting a single thing from Him. Honestly, the whole concept is totally foreign to me. I’m perfectly fine with using the term to describe something beyond our limited human comprehension—like the sheer scale of reality, the awe of an infinite universe, or even that > "God" concept.

So, atheism isn't really believing that God doesn't exist.

A theist actually believes God is going to step in, help them out, grant wishes, or grant immortality.
It’s basically the difference between worshippers and everyone else—those who don't pray to or believe in a deity, whatever that may be. ☕

Belief is usually boxed in by rigid dogma. Every phrase and word has been strictly mapped out by theologians long ago. There's no room for actual curiosity, exploration, or keeping your eyes open; it's just repeating mental scripts handed down from the past. That’s a death sentence for any kind of genuine spirituality.

Honestly, looking back at that first post, I totally missed the point that we were talking about religion. To me, it feels more like that basic human instinct—that gut feeling where everyone just hopes and believes that tomorrow is gonna be a better day.

Since the dawn of time, humans have clung to faith out of a sheer fear of the unknown—that overwhelming sense of facing something we simply couldn't grasp. You only have to look back at ancient civilizations and their polytheistic gods to see this in action. Without a scientific understanding of what causes rain, thunder, or lightning, people attributed these phenomena to divine acts. It was their way of making the incomprehensible feel slightly more familiar; by labeling the chaos, they felt they were building a foundation of knowledge. When we’re terrified of something we can't explain, even if we give it a name, there’s this desperate hope that we might somehow exert control over it. That’s where rituals, prayers, and organized beliefs take root. Hoping a prayer gets heard is really just hoping for the illusion of control.

From the perspective of a modern person living in an era of rapid technological advancement, our understanding of the world has expanded immensely. Because we actually understand the mechanics behind how things work, the urge to slap a divine label on everything has diminished significantly. We’ve studied natural phenomena to reach the conclusions we hold today. Yet, at our core, we haven't changed a bit.

Whenever we encounter something we don't yet understand, instead of stepping back to observe and build actual knowledge, we tend to project meaning onto someone or something. We have this frantic need to know everything *right now* because uncertainty triggers an internal sense of chaos. This leads directly to the birth of superstitions, beliefs, and hopes. And unfortunately, it also fuels the desire to "bend" reality to fit our own convenient narratives.

Because most people don't actually seek out the objective truth, opting instead to jump to hasty, subjective conclusions, I personally view beliefs and hopes as nothing more than illusions.

Tyler Baker6 said:Honestly, looking back at that first post, I totally missed the point that we were talking about religion. To me, it feels more like that basic human instinct—that gut feeling where everyone just hopes and believes that tomorrow is gonna be a better day.

👍

Faith and hope are so deeply woven into the fabric of the human psyche that most people aren't even aware they are relying on them.
If drivers speeding down a highway or driving under the influence didn't possess that subconscious belief that nothing bad would happen, how many fatal accidents would simply never occur?
How many psychological traumas, homicides, or suicides could be prevented if lovers didn't cling to the belief that they had found their soulmate, only to suffer when those illusions inevitably shatter?
Would criminals even bother to operate if they didn't harbor the hope that they would somehow evade capture?

From a philosophical standpoint, I believe there is significant value in bringing these feelings into conscious awareness and examining them. Perhaps doing so might allow a person to recognize when they are reaching for these crutches, enabling them to let go and potentially avoid unnecessary trauma.

Anthony Perez9 said:Look, as an atheist, I don't believe in God and I'm not expecting a single thing from Him. Honestly, the whole concept is totally foreign to me. I’m perfectly fine with using the term to describe something beyond our limited human comprehension—like the sheer scale of reality, the awe of an infinite universe, or even that > "God" concept.

So, atheism isn't really believing that God doesn't exist.

A theist actually believes God is going to step in, help them out, grant wishes, or grant immortality.
It’s basically the difference between worshippers and everyone else—those who don't pray to or believe in a deity, whatever that may be. ☕

Belief is usually boxed in by rigid dogma. Every phrase and word has been strictly mapped out by theologians long ago. There's no room for actual curiosity, exploration, or keeping your eyes open; it's just repeating mental scripts handed down from the past. That’s a death sentence for any kind of genuine spirituality.

That is completely incorrect. While faith can be framed by dogma, there is still plenty of room for creativity, inquiry, or whatever you choose to pursue. Furthermore, I fail to see why you assume belief is nothing more than repeating canned phrases. I just don't follow that logic.😕

placidmaker98 said:That is completely incorrect. While faith can be framed by dogma, there is still plenty of room for creativity, inquiry, or whatever you choose to pursue. Furthermore, I fail to see why you assume belief is nothing more than repeating canned phrases. I just don't follow that logic.😕

Well placidmaker98, everything's laid out right there in the Catechism. 🙂

dustyraven26 said:👍

Faith and hope are so deeply woven into the fabric of the human psyche that most people aren't even aware they are relying on them.
If drivers speeding down a highway or driving under the influence didn't possess that subconscious belief that nothing bad would happen, how many fatal accidents would simply never occur?
How many psychological traumas, homicides, or suicides could be prevented if lovers didn't cling to the belief that they had found their soulmate, only to suffer when those illusions inevitably shatter?
Would criminals even bother to operate if they didn't harbor the hope that they would somehow evade capture?

From a philosophical standpoint, I believe there is significant value in bringing these feelings into conscious awareness and examining them. Perhaps doing so might allow a person to recognize when they are reaching for these crutches, enabling them to let go and potentially avoid unnecessary trauma.

Believing in hope is basically just bowing down to a "divine future."

"Tomorrow, all our dreams come true. Enlightenment is coming, Jesus will return on the clouds, I'll get a raise, and the girl I love will finally fall for me—we'll be in bed together by the day after tomorrow.
On Wednesday, I’ll get my promotion; in two years, a massive inheritance. Abundance and happiness await me—tomorrow, in the future, at the end of the road, somewhere in that hazy blur called tomorrow."

That’s "God time"—an idol, a crush, a hollow pile of clichés designed to drift us away from the NOW. While we're busy waiting for some future win, our limited time on this earth just evaporates, and tomorrow keeps receding like a mirage. We’re left with hands clenched and empty, begging for mercy from a God who isn't there.

God time is a scam; it drains your life force and leaves you feeling cheated.

The "road to happiness" is just a dead end that drops you straight into a canyon.

Truth is right here, right now. 🙂

Anthony Perez9 said:Well placidmaker98, everything's laid out right there in the Catechism. 🙂

And just what exactly does it say in that Catechism? I'm truly curious—do you actually grasp the weight of your own words?

dustyraven26 said:Atheism is just another form of faith—specifically, the faith that God does not exist. 😲

I believe that both faith and hope should be discarded as methods of engagement in favor of a dedicated pursuit of the truth. Humans are perfectly capable of doing just that.

Individually, perhaps. As a species? That's a much harder sell...

dustyraven26 said:Anyone genuinely committed to improving their circumstances must act in direct alignment with those intentions. Such action can only occur within the reality of the "here and now," because the concept of "there and then" is a fiction that simply does not exist.

In observing how belief and hope influence the human psyche, I have noted several patterns:

A person can only truly believe in what they cannot currently see or experience in the present moment. It is a known phenomenon that if one maintains a belief long enough, they begin to perceive it visually. However, at that stage, what they are seeing is not objective reality, but rather a mental projection—a waking dream—which can lead to severe psychological trauma when it inevitably clashes with actual reality.

Furthermore, the mere hope that things will improve "someday"—whether through fate or the intervention of others—serves only to diminish the drive required to take meaningful action today. In its purest essence, hope acts as an escape mechanism, allowing one to bypass the necessity of acting in the present.

Because of these dynamics, I hold the view that

Belief and hope are dangerous delusions; they erode the motivation needed to engage with the real world. By encouraging an escape from reality, they render a life stagnant, ritualistic, and ultimately precarious, posing a significant risk to one's mental stability.

Based on these observations, and without indulging in hypothetical scenarios, I am inclined to assert that religious faith exerts a negative influence on individuals by further fueling this tendency toward belief and passive hope.

Please share your thoughts.

It seems like you're saying belief has the potential to create things... though it's hard to say at what level or how that even works (assuming it works at all).

I guess this is about how belief and hope are used or misused; if you already do everything you can, then belief and hope might be useful for those extra little bits; but if they're used as a substitute for taking action, then they're harmful.

So, are you trying to say that belief and hope lead to a lack of action?

Hmm. Well, anyone who wants to achieve something starts with a vision. You basically sketch something out in your head first. In doing that, you're expressing a certain kind of faith in its realization.

What would an ideal look like on your part, though? Like... a total blank slate of irrationality? Or strictly being rational?

Anthony Perez9 said:Look, as an atheist, I don't believe in God and I'm not expecting a single thing from Him. Honestly, the whole concept is totally foreign to me. I’m perfectly fine with using the term to describe something beyond our limited human comprehension—like the sheer scale of reality, the awe of an infinite universe, or even that > "God" concept.

So, atheism isn't really believing that God doesn't exist.

A theist actually believes God is going to step in, help them out, grant wishes, or grant immortality.
It’s basically the difference between worshippers and everyone else—those who don't pray to or believe in a deity, whatever that may be. ☕

Belief is usually boxed in by rigid dogma. Every phrase and word has been strictly mapped out by theologians long ago. There's no room for actual curiosity, exploration, or keeping your eyes open; it's just repeating mental scripts handed down from the past. That’s a death sentence for any kind of genuine spirituality.

Well then, what do you call the actual belief that there is no God?

I mean, I guess you could just say that concept doesn't even exist... 😉

What you're describing sounds more like agnosticism—it sort of sits in this weird middle ground where it doesn't quite fit into the category of faith or the lack thereof.

Anthony Perez9 said:Believing in hope is basically just bowing down to a "divine future."

"Tomorrow, all our dreams come true. Enlightenment is coming, Jesus will return on the clouds, I'll get a raise, and the girl I love will finally fall for me—we'll be in bed together by the day after tomorrow.
On Wednesday, I’ll get my promotion; in two years, a massive inheritance. Abundance and happiness await me—tomorrow, in the future, at the end of the road, somewhere in that hazy blur called tomorrow."

That’s "God time"—an idol, a crush, a hollow pile of clichés designed to drift us away from the NOW. While we're busy waiting for some future win, our limited time on this earth just evaporates, and tomorrow keeps receding like a mirage. We’re left with hands clenched and empty, begging for mercy from a God who isn't there.

God time is a scam; it drains your life force and leaves you feeling cheated.

The "road to happiness" is just a dead end that drops you straight into a canyon.

Truth is right here, right now. 🙂

That is exactly why you need hope. Your life force has been drained, leaving you empty, and hope is the very thing that keeps you going until you find your strength again.

For instance, imagine your relationship with the love of your life suddenly falls apart, or your friends are letting you down; the ache in your heart can be so heavy that you feel like you might just fade away, completely inconsolable.
It doesn't matter if a friend looks at coffee grounds, a crystal ball, or Tarot cards—whatever works—because all you really want is silence and the answer to one question: "is there any hope?" That single spark is what might actually keep you tethered to this world. Then they tell you, "Anthony Perez9, you were born under a lucky star! It’s just stepped out for a moment to stretch its legs; it’s just around the corner! It will stroll back into your kingdom in about... a decade!"

And just like that, you get your hope, and you survive. "God time" performs miracles. 👍
In the meantime, you happen to meet the Queen of Sheba. 🙏
The question is: what would have happened if hope hadn't kept you alive??
The answer: the Queen of Sheba would have withered away from grief. 😍

"The path to happiness" is a dead end that leads straight into a canyon.

So, bypass that page in your manifesto, or better yet: rip that page out entirely! It's hopeless. 😛

Truth is here and now. 🙂

True, but only if your eyes are fixed on a (bright) divine future. 🙂

Anthony Perez9 said:Believing in hope is basically just bowing down to a "divine future."

"Tomorrow, all our dreams come true. Enlightenment is coming, Jesus will return on the clouds, I'll get a raise, and the girl I love will finally fall for me—we'll be in bed together by the day after tomorrow.
On Wednesday, I’ll get my promotion; in two years, a massive inheritance. Abundance and happiness await me—tomorrow, in the future, at the end of the road, somewhere in that hazy blur called tomorrow."

That’s "God time"—an idol, a crush, a hollow pile of clichés designed to drift us away from the NOW. While we're busy waiting for some future win, our limited time on this earth just evaporates, and tomorrow keeps receding like a mirage. We’re left with hands clenched and empty, begging for mercy from a God who isn't there.

God time is a scam; it drains your life force and leaves you feeling cheated.

The "road to happiness" is just a dead end that drops you straight into a canyon.

Truth is right here, right now. 🙂

A secular misunderstanding of the doctrine... Truth is here and now —well obviously, that's the whole point 😁, and faith in eternity with God is just one part of the doctrine, isn't it? Honestly, I'm surprised you don't accept that, Anthony Perez9, considering what you know about the catechism and such...😉

Paul Jones7 said:Well then, what do you call the actual belief that there is no God?

I mean, I guess you could just say that concept doesn't even exist... 😉

What you're describing sounds more like agnosticism—it sort of sits in this weird middle ground where it doesn't quite fit into the category of faith or the lack thereof.

Atheism essentially means a lack of belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent God—derived from the Latin deus, coming from *divus*, and the Indo-European deiw, meaning light or to shine. So, atheism is effectively the belief in the nonexistence of God. As far as I know, there's no hard evidence, just faith...

Sure. I guess you could break it down into three distinct paths:

1. I believe in God—meaning, my position is that He exists.
2. I don't believe in God—essentially, my stance is that He doesn't exist.
3. I'm just sitting on the fence regarding whether God exists—I don't really hold a definitive position either way.

So, 1 would be theism, 2 is atheism, and 3 is agnosticism.

dustyraven26 said:👍

Faith and hope are so deeply woven into the fabric of the human psyche that most people aren't even aware they are relying on them.
If drivers speeding down a highway or driving under the influence didn't possess that subconscious belief that nothing bad would happen, how many fatal accidents would simply never occur?
How many psychological traumas, homicides, or suicides could be prevented if lovers didn't cling to the belief that they had found their soulmate, only to suffer when those illusions inevitably shatter?
Would criminals even bother to operate if they didn't harbor the hope that they would somehow evade capture?

From a philosophical standpoint, I believe there is significant value in bringing these feelings into conscious awareness and examining them. Perhaps doing so might allow a person to recognize when they are reaching for these crutches, enabling them to let go and potentially avoid unnecessary trauma.

Of course, because it’s just human nature to need belief and hope... someone who doesn't dream is dead inside, and someone who lacks both hope and faith is just as much of a
lost cause.
What you're describing sounds more like expectations (which is just part of our psychological makeup), rather than true hope and faith, which are much more spiritual components...