Posts by Harold Reyes3

So you're saying Muhammad has definitely moved on from this life, while Jesus will return only to die once more?

Exactly. Muhammad has left this world behind, but Jesus is still alive in heaven. He’s scheduled to return right toward the end of times. His return is a massive sign of doomsday; shortly after he passes again, doomsday hits and humanity reaches its finish line.

Jesus didn't actually die on the cross. Instead, someone else who looked just like him was crucified. Jesus is coming back to tell the world the truth about his identity. During that time, everyone will follow him, and he'll judge according to the Quran, which will lead to a massive shift toward Islam.

Since Jesus isn't dead, and God decreed that every soul must eventually pass away, Jesus will return to fulfill that requirement too.

The era of his return will be defined by massive conflict—we're talking World War III territory. But once peace finally takes hold, people will live in total abundance. We'll see absolute justice established on Earth for a few years, unlike anything we've ever seen before.
not to mention anything like it ever again.

Muhammad actually saw Jesus during the night of the Mi'raj and spoke with him. He described him as a very handsome man with long, curly hair falling to his shoulders, looking almost damp, like he had just stepped out of the shower.

If we live long enough to see the future where Jesus returns, we might actually catch a glimpse of him or even talk to him here on Earth. He'll live, get married, have kids, and eventually be laid to rest next to Muhammad in Medina, where Muslims will handle the burial.

I'm certain Jesus's return will trigger two polar opposite reactions: pure awe and total panic.

The awe comes from seeing a man who lived 2,000 years ago—someone without a father, someone who raised the dead and healed the blind and the sick. He's one of the closest people to God. Just watching him on a TV screen would be enough to leave you speechless, let alone being there in prayer and talking to him face-to-face.

Then there's the inevitable panic. That’s why his return is such a huge omen of doomsday; his death marks the beginning of the end. Just the thought that our world is ending and judgment day is arriving—when God judges all of humanity—would give you a stomach ache so intense it feels like your guts are twisting, leaving you blinded by darkness and gripped by nerves that won't quit.

That’s an interesting comparison. But let's be real—there are fundamental differences here that create a massive divide. It's a gap that isn't going away anytime soon. The only way forward is to face reality and leave the final judgment to God.

Those divides could vanish overnight if Christians were actually more devoted to Jesus and His teachings, rather than following people who twisted His message.

Let me give you a clear example. If Christians had rejected Paul, they would have had every reason to. He showed up after Jesus ascended and completely distorted what Jesus taught. Even though Jesus Himself said the old laws shouldn't be tossed aside, Paul went ahead and changed things, and Christians just followed his lead. Instead of sticking to what Jesus actually said, they chased after questionable figures and became followers of Paul instead of Jesus. Meanwhile, we Muslims are currently the only true followers of Jesus' actual teachings on Earth. If anyone is skeptical, just look at those 11 points above; it makes it crystal clear why we are the ones holding onto the true path.

If Christians did the same thing—if they just followed Jesus and cut Paul out—they would be almost indistinguishable from Muslims. You wouldn't even be able to tell who was who.

Just imagine if we had done that! If we Muslims had rejected Muhammad's teachings and started following some shady guy after Muhammad passed away, where would that have left us? 🙄It would be a complete disaster.

To stay on the right track, you have to stick with God's messenger. They are sent to explain the faith and show the way, not some random mortal with a suspicious doctrine. That’s exactly why we Muslims hold so tightly to our faith, the Quran, and the messenger Muhammad. We’ve maintained this unbroken connection for over 1,400 years. But you Christians lost touch with Jesus the moment you started following Paul and his warped versions of things. I’m certain that if Jesus appeared on Earth today, He wouldn't recognize modern Christianity at all. To Him, it would feel like a foreign country.

The Bible says Jesus prayed to God by falling face-down on the ground. Imagine what He’d think seeing how people pray in a church today—sitting in chairs, reading little poems, and singing loudly. Compare that to Muslims, who bow to God in lines exactly the way Jesus did. Where do you think He’d feel more at home? In a mosque among Muslims, or in a church sitting in a pew?
Look at Muslim women; they cover themselves just like His mother Mary and the other women of that era did. Then look at grandmas in churches singing songs written by who-knows-who. It’s obvious He’d be with the Muslims. After all, Muhammad says that when Jesus returns to Earth in the future, He will be with the Muslims, praying alongside them, and eventually laid to rest near Muhammad's grave.

If you look at it objectively, Christianity and Islam are actually pretty similar.

The core reason they feel so alike is because they share the exact same source. Any differences you see? Those were just human tweaks along the way.

In Islam, we recognize Mary, Jesus, John the Baptist, Zechariah, Joseph, Jacob, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Elijah, Aaron, Adam, Noah, Lot, Isaac, Ishmael, and more.

They are all Godly messengers and prophets.

God has always sent down one single faith. It’s just that after these Godly messengers passed away, people started slapping different names on it. For example, Judaism was named after Judah, one of Abraham's great-grandchildren. Christianity took shape after Jesus ascended, specifically through Paul's shift where he moved away from the old laws to establish the faith. Finally, in the Quran, God Himself chose the word Islam for the faith brought by Muhammad—but it's the same message preached by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Jesus said he was leaving peace for the world; "Islam" comes from the root word *selam*, which means peace. If you compare what the Godly messengers did in the Bible to what is practiced in Islam, you'll see it's really just one and the same religion.

1. Jesus washed before prayer and prostrated himself before God, just like Muslims do.

2. Jesus greeted his friends with "Peace be with you," which is exactly how we say "Assalamu Alaikum."

3. Jesus didn't eat pork or drink alcohol, and neither do we.

4. Jesus fasted, and we fast too.

5. Jesus refers to God as Allah, just as Muslims, Christians, and Jews do in the Middle East.

6. According to the Bible, women are meant to cover their heads, which is exactly what Muslim women do.

7. Jesus practiced ablution, and so do Muslims.

8. The Bible forbids images and idols of humans or animals, and Islam has the exact same ban. No difference there.

9. Interest is forbidden in the Bible, just as it is forbidden in Islam.

10. Jesus wore a beard, much like Muslims do.

11. Jesus believed in one God, and we Muslims believe in one God.

All these points prove that the laws in the Bible and the Quran come from the very same source.

Is there a list somewhere of all these prophets? Or maybe just a ranking of the oldest ones?

There isn't a complete list of every single prophet, just some of them.

It’s like looking at a family tree where some branches are missing. Adam was the very first, while Muhammad was the most recent. Jesus was the second to last Godly prophet.

So how can we actually know there were that many?

Here’s the deal:

One time, Abu Dharr, a close friend of Muhammad, asked him, "Messenger of God, how many prophets have there been?" He answered, "One hundred and twenty-four thousand." Then he followed up with, "Messenger of God, how many messengers were among them?" To that, the answer was three hundred and thirteen.".

Think of it like this: prophets didn't receive books, but messengers did.

Was Jesus the only one who was fully aware of God's intentions?

Not at all! Long before Muhammad or Jesus, there were about 124,000 Messengers of God throughout history. We know the names of some, but others remain unknown.

Linda Walker37 said:Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever—and that goes for everyone who lived before Him, too.
As far as I know, Jesus said those things while He was still walking this earth. He understood His mission perfectly, and He knew exactly why the Father had sent Him here.
In the Garden of Gethsemane, He was sweating blood. He knew exactly what was coming, and because He was both God and man, He felt the full weight of that fear. 🤷
Do you think he actually knew why he came to this earth?
Do you happen to know what he said to the apostle who was trying to convince him not to accept the cross?
Did you know he said that everything written must come to pass?
Do you actually know anything about Christ ????????
I told you that I understand what... You just won't believe it!
I honestly don't get how you can jump into an argument like this when you clearly don't know the first thing about Christ. 🙏

You didn't answer me. What about all those people living before Jesus? They died without ever knowing Him or hearing about His crucifixion. How were they supposed to believe in that to be saved?

It just doesn't make sense that believing in Jesus' crucifixion to carry our sins is the only way. When you think about how many billions of people lived long before Jesus, that whole belief system seems totally illogical.

Do you really know anything about Christ at all?

I do.

But I don't get how you jump into an argument when you clearly don't know a single thing about Christ.

Oh, I know plenty about Christ. Just answer the question: what happens to the people from before Jesus who couldn't believe in some crucifixion to be saved? Where is their way out? 🙄

He said "the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these"
Interpret that however you want
If you don't get it, you're missing how everything changes through Christ's death
That's why His sacrifice wipes away original sin for all His children
It makes perfect sense—you just aren't seeing it.

Can you see the flaw in that logic? First off, Jesus said that while He was walking the earth, not after the Crucifixion

Second, if it’s actually true that His death erases original sin, then what about the people who lived before Him? What are they doing now? Are they playing marbles with Satan in hell because they weren't lucky enough to be born after the Crucifixion to be saved? Come on, give me a break. The logic just doesn't hold up 👍

Why don't you start by defining "original sin"?

Look, based on what Jesus actually taught, that concept doesn't hold water. If this whole "original sin" thing were real, why would Jesus say children are the ones who will enter the Kingdom? It makes zero sense—how can you enter heaven carrying sin? 🙄The logic just isn't there. You're believing in something that flat-out contradicts everything Jesus himself said.

David Booth7 said:Well, okay, that makes sense for a Muslim and the Quran.
Sure, you find all sorts of people out there, but I was talking about the ones I personally know—those who don't do it for the sake of others or just to show off. They truly do it SINCERELY!!! Honestly, even a few of those people (just a couple I know) have a much better character than some of the most devout believers...
Anyway, I won't ramble on, but yeah, there are all kinds of people, and we probably shouldn't throw everyone into the same bucket.

Peace.

Sure, there are all kinds out there, but I’m just talking about the ones I actually know personally. Most others either don't bother or they're just doing it to brag.

Look, it’s simple. God can absolutely reward someone right here on Earth. He can grant them happiness, wealth, good health, or a beautiful family. Maybe it’s a dream home, or maybe He just steps in to steer a disaster away to make up for a selfless act. It's like a cosmic way of balancing the scales in real-time.
When things get truly intense, it’ll be on Judgment Day. That's when the real fear hits—standing face-to-face before the Lord of the Universe. At that point, a different song is going to be sung. Since he lived as an atheist, he already collected his "reward" right here on Earth. But in the afterlife? There’s nothing waiting for him. How can you receive something from a realm you didn't even believe existed? If you don't believe in God, there's really nothing left to hope for. 🙄

To be honest, even a few of them—at least from what I’ve seen—have way better character than some of the most devoted believers out there!

No doubt about it—I believe you!

Look, everyone’s got their own mix of strengths and flaws. It’s just how it works. Some people are blunt, others are soft-spoken—everyone brings something different to the table.

It’s honestly pretty embarrassing when you see religious people acting like jerks. You see atheists out there living better lives and showing more integrity than some "believers," and it just makes you wonder. If faith is supposed to guide your character and how you treat people, but you still act like a total mess, then what exactly are you even reading? It defeats the whole purpose. 🙄

Linda Walker37 said:Sigh.
Jesus Christ, the sinless and eternal Son of God, died to pay our debt.
God demonstrated His entire love for us by having Christ die on the cross, taking upon Himself the punishment we truly deserved.
After three days, He rose from the dead, proving His victory over both sin and death.
According to our faith, we mustturn away from sin and turn toward Christ for salvation.
If we put our trust in Him,believing that His death on the crosspaid for our sins, we will receive forgiveness and the promise of life in heaven—eternal life.
Romans 10:9 says, "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Only trusting in Christ can save us from sin.
Draw your own conclusions based on what you want to believe.🤷
I wrote this based on my own faith.

Jesus Christ is perfect and eternal. He’s the Son of God, and He died to pay our debt.

What kind of punishment are we talking about? 🙄 What's the charge?

God showed us exactly how much He loves us when Christ died on the cross. It was the ultimate move—He stepped in and took the punishment we actually deserved!

Look at it this way: if you’re just watching from the sidelines while someone you care about gets nailed to a cross—half-naked, covered in blood, and getting beaten to death—that isn't love. There’s zero love in just standing there and letting a close friend suffer like that.

Seriously, what kind of punishment do we actually deserve? I mean, come on, people—what are we even talking about here? Does any of this make sense? Is someone else supposed to suffer on my behalf just because I follow my passions or mess up sometimes? The idea that Jesus takes all those sins upon himself simply because I believe in him and his sacrifice on the cross... give me a break! 🙄

Three days later, Jesus rose from the dead! He showed everyone exactly what it means to triumph over sin and death once and for all.

Easter isn't really about death. Think about it: He never truly died. Jesus said that when someone passes away, their spirit becomes like an angel. Well, He was both flesh and spirit at the same time—just like we are! Because He exists in both realms, death couldn't actually claim Him.

Our faith calls us to step up.Turn away from sin and turn toward Christ for salvation!

The Bible clearly states that God alone is the Savior, not Jesus!

If we put our trust in Him, believing that His death on the cross paid for our sins, we will receive forgiveness and the promised life in heaven—eternal life.
Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Only redemption through Christ can save us from sin.
Draw your own conclusion from that.🤷
I wrote this based on my faith.

Look, honey, take a seat and actually think about what you just typed. 🙄It makes zero sense to say someone dies for us while we keep sinning—especially when we're doing it subconsciously—as if we have a free pass to mess up because Jesus died for us.

This whole argument is totally misleading because it ignores God entirely. It skips the part where you personally seek His forgiveness through prayer, where you truly repent and ask for mercy.

God explains how to receive forgiveness in the Quran:

110. Whoever does an evil deed or sins against himself and then asks God for forgiveness, will find that God is forgiving and merciful.

There’s no such thing as Jesus suffering to take on everyone else's sins; honestly, that would just be unfair to Jesus.

Even atheists do that (at least a few I know)....

Look, there’s actually a massive distinction here, and let me break it down for you.

When a Muslim does something good, they have to do it solely for God to help others. They shouldn't be doing it just to impress people or to build a reputation as a generous person. They aren't looking for social status or a "good guy" label from the neighbors. That's where the big difference lies.

Now, when an atheist does a good deed, they might genuinely want to help someone without seeking any kind of worldly glory. But since they only care about this life—not the afterlife, not God, and don't believe in a spiritual realm where deeds are rewarded—they won't get anything beyond what happens here on Earth.

Compare that to a believer. A believer performs good deeds strictly in the name of God to please Him. They aren't trying to boost their ego or manipulate how the community perceives them. You know the type: "Look at me giving! Now everyone will think I'm such a saint." If that's the motivation, those deeds are just for show. There's no reward waiting for them on Judgment Day. But if they do it purely for God, seeking His approval rather than public applause or thanks, they earn rewards both in this life and the next.

That’s the fundamental gap between an atheist philanthropist and a believer philanthropist.

God says in the Quran:

20. Whoever desires the reward of the Hereafter—We will increase them in it; and whoever desires the reward of this world—We will give them their share therein, but they will have no enjoyment in the Hereafter.
.

This part applies to the believer philanthropist:
Whoever desires the reward of the Hereafter – We will increase them in it.

They get rewarded in this life AND the next.

And this is for the atheist philanthropist:

but whoever desires the reward of this world—We will give them their share, but they will have no part in the Hereafter.

Linda Walker37 said:Christ washed away our sins through his own blood, granting us the gift of eternal life

So what's the catch? Does that mean we can just go wild and commit any sin imaginable?🙄

If I go out and kill someone, am I somehow justified before God? "Who kills a man, goes crazy," right? Chill out! Don't you realize Jesus already washed those sins away?

Besides, people always drone on about Jesus's blood instead of explaining how you actually earn eternal life. Look, Heaven is about God's grace through action. You get there by doing good deeds—being kind to people, helping the poor, looking after orphans and the sick, honoring your parents, being a good neighbor, and staying away from sin. That’s the real path to eternal life in Heaven, not some talk about blood.

Alex Ramos91 said:You actually called it—you totally predicted what I was getting at earlier regarding God being the very essence of love. Think about it: if God has the power to give and receive love, He couldn't have just existed in total isolation. From the very beginning, there’s been this eternal relationship, this constant flow of love, fellowship, and life shared between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
So, we're talking about three distinct persons here—but make no mistake, it’s still just one God.

I know you’re probably going to jump down my throat and claim there are three different gods involved here, but that’s just not what Christians believe. Period. They believe there is only one God, and they stand firmly behind the Jewish Shema—you know, that whole "Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God is one" thing. one".
If you want to actually wrap your head around how Christians believe in one God existing in three distinct persons, it might help to look at how the same word is used for different things. one In the original Hebrew, you see it right there in Genesis 2:23: "That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." One. The body.

Look, I’m not trying to sit here and give you some exhaustive, deep-dive lecture on the Trinity right now—honestly, I couldn't even if I wanted to. I mean, who among us actually has the capacity to fully wrap their head around God? It's impossible. But what I *am* trying to get through to you is this simple point: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons, yet they are one single God!

Here it is, including the graphics: Check this out: http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-godhood.gif

Look, you can flip the script on this if you want. But think about it: He existed from eternity in perfect unity with the Father—surrounded by glory, holiness, and absolute purity. And then? He walked away from all that just to settle here on this fallen, filthy planet among people who hated Him and spat in His face.

Just imagine how you'd actually "cope" if you were ripped out of your comfortable little bubble and tossed straight into the absolute gutter of Kolkata. I’m talking about the kind of place where the stench hits you like a physical wall, where the streets are crawling with scavengers picking through remains while rats feast on the scraps. You’re being swarmed from every single direction by people begging for help, but here’s the kicker: you don't even have your damn credit card on you. You're forced to live in the exact same filth and misery as everyone else, and most of them? They wouldn't care if you were the nicest person on Earth—they'd probably kill you just for the hell of it.

He knew. He was saying this stuff when he was just twelve years old, back when he stayed in Jerusalem to debate those legal scholars in the temple. And when Joseph and Mary came looking for him, he told them not to sweat it because he had to be in His Father's house—meaning the temple, which at that time was the House of the Lord.

I think I already partially answered that by stating the Son is a distinct person from God the Father.
But this specifically refers to Jesus as a man. As a man, he is exalted (through the resurrection and ascension), and as the greatest of all human sons, he deserves a kingdom and authority over this world and all people. And as the man who loves righteousness and hates wickedness(Hebrews 1:9), he will judge on the day of judgment.

As a man, Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit; He was conceived through Him. During Jesus' earthly ministry, the Holy Spirit dwelt within Him, so in a sense, the Holy Spirit was among the disciples through Jesus.
Near the end of His earthly life, Jesus promised His disciples that once He went to the Father, He would send a new Advocate who was already among them (the Holy Spirit that was in Jesus). He even said it was better for them that He go to the Father, otherwise, the Holy Spirit wouldn't be able to dwell in His disciples.
For the Holy Spirit to live in people, their sins have to be cleansed, and they need to receive a new heart—which was achieved through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.
And now, Jesus isn't limited to a single human body; instead, through the Holy Spirit, who lives in every believer every single day, He dwells in every individual believer. 😍
"If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him." (John 14:23)

This right here—I believe it’s literal because that’s exactly how Stephen saw Him before those people killed him:
When they heard this, they were gnashed their teeth at him. (55) But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand (56) and said: "Look, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at God's right hand." (57) Then they were filled with rage, they gnashed their teeth at him, and they both rushed upon him. (Acts 7)

But look, the real point isn't just the vision—it's what it signifies. That Jesus is at God's right hand as the Father's Son. It means everything the Father has belongs to Him; He shares in the Father's rule, power, and authority. He is exalted above every other name.

I have to admit, I actually enjoy responding to you. You just carry a different spirit than most of the other Muslims on here.🙂

I really hope you read this entire thing and actually take it to heart. I'm sure you still have questions, so just keep writing, and I'll get back to you as soon as I'm able.

Best regards,
mš

ps: If you don't mind, I'd love to hear your take on those passages from Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 regarding the Messiah's suffering at some point.

Hmm... you missed my earlier point about God being the God of love. For God to express and receive love, He couldn't have been alone. From eternity past, there has been a relationship of love, fellowship, and life between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
So, we are talking about three persons—but still one God.

It's like saying 1+1+1=1 👍 pure logic. 👎

I know you might tell me now that this means there are three gods, but that isn't what Christians believe. They believe God is one and agree with the Jewish Shema—“Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.”
To make it easier to grasp how Christians believe in one God in three persons, consider this: the exact same word used for one in the original Hebrew is also used in Genesis 2:23, which says: "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

I think that statement actually undermines the Trinity and makes Christianity look like a polytheistic religion.

You say a man and woman are one body when they are together, but if you ask anyone how many people are in that union, everyone will say two. It's the same way; any logical person would say three gods in one God is illogical. But they won't say three gods in one God—they'll say it's just one God. It's logic beyond logic. 😁 It'll melt your brain trying to understand this. 🙄

My goal right now isn't to fully explain the Trinity to you (honestly, I couldn't even if I tried—who can fully explain God?) but simply to help you see that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons, yet one God!

Beliefs like this do more harm to Christianity than anything else in the world. When I read the testimonies of new Muslims who converted from Christianity, it's often because they couldn't wrap their heads around the Trinity and these other complexities. Honestly, you're doing us a huge favor by overcomplicating things; people are going to keep drifting away because they don't understand, and they'll choose Islam because it feels much more logical than Christianity.

God is one. Jesus is His messenger, not a god or a son, and the Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel. That’s the bottom line—no need to overthink it with all that Trinity talk or complicated philosophy.

Alex Ramos91 said:Look, man, when you’re talking about the undeniable evidence that the Bible was divinely inspired—I mean, look at the connection between Isaiah and those scrolls we found at Qumran—it's just pure nonsense to sit around debating it. Honestly, most of this chatter is just mindless scribbling that doesn't even deserve a second thought. It's laughable.

Look, my friend, you’re being totally unfair with how you treat the Bible. You just cherry-pick these tiny little details whenever they happen to back up your point, and then you toss everything else aside as garbage because it doesn't fit your narrative. If you’re going to claim the whole thing has been tampered with or rewritten, why are you even citing it in the first place? It makes zero sense. If you insist the text isn't reliable, then you have absolutely no ground to stand on when you quote it. By your own logic, the very verses you're using could be just as "faked" as the ones you're criticizing. Do you even have an ounce of intellectual honesty left to admit that?

Besides, what kind of God are we talking about here? A God who wasn't powerful enough to protect His own written Word? I mean, seriously. Even if you try to argue that it survived through centuries of human scribes—you know, accounting for those little "accidental" copying errors, like those discrepancies with the numbers—is God really not capable of making sure the actual message doesn't get lost? It's a ridiculous question. If He's God, He should be able to preserve the core truth regardless of a few typos.

So, you’re actually sitting there telling me that God is powerless to handle something like this? Seriously? Isn't that basically an insult to God?

Look, my friend, you really need to go back and re-read Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22. Seriously. Those are the exact spots in the Bible where so many of God's enemies have ended up dropping to their knees before Him—the One who created everything and owns it all.

Let me ask you something first.
What exactly is your problem with my sin? Seriously, what are you even getting at here?
What exactly gives God the right to just hand out forgiveness like it’s nothing? On what basis can He even do that?

Harold Reyes3 Asks:
Look, here’s another thing: nowhere in the actual teachings does Jesus say, "I'm going to die on a cross to carry all your sins." That whole concept isn't even His words—it's just a bunch of people speculating. It's all "maybe this happened" or "maybe that was the reason," and yet you guys just swallow it whole and believe it like it's gospel truth.

I don't even know if there’s any point in me quoting the Bible where Jesus says it himself. 🤷
Look, I’m honestly just worried that if I quote you, you’re gonna jump down my throat again and claim someone else wrote it for me... so, honestly? It’s probably better for both of us if I just don't bother quoting anything.
On that Day, you’re going to have a lot less to answer for when you stand before Jesus.

Look, I'm asking a straight-up question here: what if I walk in and prove, without a single shred of doubt using proof from the Bible, that Jesus actually said he was going to die for other people's sins?

This kind of copy-pasting is such a tedious way to have a debate. It’s honestly like tilting at windmills. If I bother to answer, I just know I'll be hit with another ton of copy-pasted junk from some random source five minutes later...
If you aren't actually competent enough to discuss a topic, then go do your own independent research first before showing up here with your "opinions."

Best,
mš

Listen, calling my own writing "boring" is wild. I wrote this stuff myself eight years ago, so I'll copy-paste it whenever I feel like it! 😂😂

Am I not allowed to copy-paste my own work???

Alex Ramos91 said:Look, man, when you’re talking about the undeniable evidence that the Bible was divinely inspired—I mean, look at the connection between Isaiah and those scrolls we found at Qumran—it's just pure nonsense to sit around debating it. Honestly, most of this chatter is just mindless scribbling that doesn't even deserve a second thought. It's laughable.

Look, my friend, you’re being totally unfair with how you treat the Bible. You just cherry-pick these tiny little details whenever they happen to back up your point, and then you toss everything else aside as garbage because it doesn't fit your narrative. If you’re going to claim the whole thing has been tampered with or rewritten, why are you even citing it in the first place? It makes zero sense. If you insist the text isn't reliable, then you have absolutely no ground to stand on when you quote it. By your own logic, the very verses you're using could be just as "faked" as the ones you're criticizing. Do you even have an ounce of intellectual honesty left to admit that?

Besides, what kind of God are we talking about here? A God who wasn't powerful enough to protect His own written Word? I mean, seriously. Even if you try to argue that it survived through centuries of human scribes—you know, accounting for those little "accidental" copying errors, like those discrepancies with the numbers—is God really not capable of making sure the actual message doesn't get lost? It's a ridiculous question. If He's God, He should be able to preserve the core truth regardless of a few typos.

So, you’re actually sitting there telling me that God is powerless to handle something like this? Seriously? Isn't that basically an insult to God?

Look, my friend, you really need to go back and re-read Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22. Seriously. Those are the exact spots in the Bible where so many of God's enemies have ended up dropping to their knees before Him—the One who created everything and owns it all.

Let me ask you something first.
What exactly is your problem with my sin? Seriously, what are you even getting at here?
What exactly gives God the right to just hand out forgiveness like it’s nothing? On what basis can He even do that?

Harold Reyes3 Asks:
Look, here’s another thing: nowhere in the actual teachings does Jesus say, "I'm going to die on a cross to carry all your sins." That whole concept isn't even His words—it's just a bunch of people speculating. It's all "maybe this happened" or "maybe that was the reason," and yet you guys just swallow it whole and believe it like it's gospel truth.

I don't even know if there’s any point in me quoting the Bible where Jesus says it himself. 🤷
Look, I’m honestly just worried that if I quote you, you’re gonna jump down my throat again and claim someone else wrote it for me... so, honestly? It’s probably better for both of us if I just don't bother quoting anything.
On that Day, you’re going to have a lot less to answer for when you stand before Jesus.

Look, I'm asking a straight-up question here: what if I walk in and prove, without a single shred of doubt using proof from the Bible, that Jesus actually said he was going to die for other people's sins?

This kind of copy-pasting is such a tedious way to have a debate. It’s honestly like tilting at windmills. If I bother to answer, I just know I'll be hit with another ton of copy-pasted junk from some random source five minutes later...
If you aren't actually competent enough to discuss a topic, then go do your own independent research first before showing up here with your "opinions."

Best,
mš

Look, man, when you’re talking about the undeniable proof that the Bible is divinely inspired—take the connection between Isaiah and those scrolls found at Qumran—you're looking at evidence so massive it makes all this other nitpicking look absolutely ridiculous in a single sentence!

If this is truly divine inspiration, then why on earth are there so many contradictions in the Bible? One verse says one thing, and then the very next one completely contradicts it!

Claiming the text has been altered doesn't mean much if you can't point to a single shred of evidence. If you're going to make that argument, you have to back it up. Otherwise, it’s just as easy to claim the very parts you're citing were changed too! Do you actually have the intellectual honesty to address that flaw in your logic?

If one verse says one thing and another says something else, how are we supposed to know which part of Jesus is the truth? It’s simple: we have the Quran from God to clear everything up. Think of it like a master key. If a Bible verse aligns perfectly with the Quran, then we know it's accurate. But if a verse contradicts the Quran, then that verse has been distorted. Without a solid point of reference, you're just lost in the woods. For us Muslims, the Quran is that ultimate guide.

Besides, what kind of God lacks the power to preserve His own written word? Even if we account for the history of human transcription—maybe a few accidental typos here and there regarding certain numbers—isn't God powerful enough to ensure the core message isn't lost?

Well, Jose Young4 put it perfectly.

"And We have sent down to you the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the scripture and as a guardian over it. So judge by that which God has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from the truth that has come to you. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had God willed, He would have made you one nation, but He is testing you with what He has given you, so race to do good. To God all will return, and He will inform you about that over which you used to differ". (5:48)

God could have easily preserved the Bible, and then there wouldn't be any need for the Quran. But God said He would protect the Quran from being corrupted, and that's why nothing else is being revealed to us now.

You're basically telling me the whole time that God is incapable of doing such a thing. Isn't that an insult to Him?

Not at all. You just assumed that’s what I said. The Bible was changed because that's what God intended, since nothing happens without His will. God isn't weak, and I never claimed He was.

Let me ask you this first.
What about your sin?
On what basis can God forgive you?

My sin can manifest in different ways, either through punishment or forgiveness.

Punishment can happen in this life (illness, poverty, accidents, etc.), at the moment of death, or in the afterlife (hell, the grave, or on the day of judgment).

Or, there is forgiveness from God if I ask for it in prayer. God forgives if you turn to Him with sincere repentance, or if you perform a good deed afterward—like giving money to the poor, for example—which wipes the sin away.

On that Day, you will be less accountable before Jesus.

You won't be accountable to Jesus at all; you'll be accountable to God. It won't be Jesus judging you, it'll be God. Just like God will judge Jesus, Muhammad, and everyone else on the day of judgment.

Alex Ramos91 said:You’re dodging the question again, 🤦

I asked for your take on the Old Testament prophecies, and all I get back is this endless philosophical rambling...

I am repeating the exact same question from my last post: how else can you interpret these blatant Old Testament prophecies about a Messiah who is destined to suffer and die for the sins of others, if not by seeing them fulfilled through the life and work of Jesus Christ?

Once we actually deal with that, then maybe we can move on to how Jesus could die for someone else's sins. 😉

Look, that first part isn't even about Jesus, and it doesn't even mention his name. Anyone could have just scribbled whatever they wanted to make sure the pieces fit perfectly.

When you try to build a logical argument, things start to feel off. Why would Jesus die for anyone? It doesn't seem to add up. If He died for my sins, but I’m still out here making mistakes, then what was the point? What exactly did He carry on His shoulders if the sins are still happening? Are we talking about imaginary problems?

Second off, Jesus never actually says, "I’m going to die on a cross to carry your sins." That's just people speculating! It’s all "maybe this" or "maybe that," and yet you guys take it as gospel truth.

It’s not just that, either. Seriously, look at how much proof from the Bible I’ve laid out showing that Jesus couldn't have actually died on the cross. Just go back, read through my whole argument again, and then let me know what you think!

Looking for some proof from the Bible and the Quran that Jesus wasn't actually killed on the cross? Let's dive into it!

God says:

Look at what they’re saying: "We killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, God's messenger!" But let's get the facts straight—they didn't actually kill him, nor did they crucify him. It was all an illusion. The people who disagreed with him were just stuck in their own doubts; they had no real knowledge of what happened, only wild guesses. There is absolutely no doubt that they didn't kill him.(Quran)

As Muslims, we believe that Jesus wasn't actually killed on the cross. Instead, we believe God made it so that someone else took his place, and that person was the one crucified. Since I know you guys don't follow the Quran, I'll give you some proof from the Bible to show why Jesus wasn't the one who died.

46 At the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a powerful voice: "Eli, Eli, lema sabahtani?" That translates to: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?"

What do you guys make of Jesus sounding so distressed during the crisis? If he already knew he was going to be sacrificed by God, why the struggle? Personally, if I knew for a fact that God had planned my own sacrifice, I wouldn't be crying out, "Why have you forsaken me?" It just doesn't add up to me!

40 When He arrived, He gave them a quick heads-up: "Keep praying so you don't fall into temptation!" Then, He stepped away from the crowd—fast enough that you could have tossed a stone at Him—dropped to His knees, and prayed: "Father! If it’s possible, please take this cup away from me. But not my will, let Yours be done instead!" Right then, an angel appeared from the heavens to give Him strength.(Bible)

It’s clear that Jesus didn't want to face the cross. When he asked, "Take this cup from me," an angel appeared right then to give him strength. To me, that shows God actually heard his plea. Now, you might be wondering, "How can you be so sure his prayer was answered?" Well, just look at this proof from the Bible.

7 During his time here on Earth, he spent his days crying out and pleading with everything he had to the One who held the power to save him from death. And because he was so incredibly devoted, God heard him.Hebrews 5:7

"He could have saved him from death, and because of his devotion, he was heard." This part makes it crystal clear that Jesus' prayer actually worked. It means he didn't die from the crisis. If he had passed away, there wouldn't be any point in saying the prayer was answered!

Does prayer actually work? Let’s look at Luke 11:9-13. It’s basically the ultimate blueprint for getting what you need from God. Think of it like this: if you go to a vending machine and it eats your dollar, you aren't just going to sit there staring at it—you're going to keep pressing those buttons! Or better yet, if you ask a friend for a favor, they’ll usually step up for you. The logic here is simple: Ask, and it'll be given. Seek, and you'll find. Knock, and the door will swing wide open. It’s that direct. Jesus makes a great point about how even imperfect people know how to give good gifts to their kids. If a human parent wouldn't hand their toddler a snake when they asked for a snack, why would we ever doubt that God wants to pour out His goodness on us? He isn't playing games. He's ready to give us the Holy Spirit, which is the greatest gift of all. Just keep showing up. 7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will you give him a snake?

/ "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find", just more evidence that Jesus' plea for salvation from death was answered perfectly

39 But He answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

/ Look closely at this now. Jonah spent three days and three nights inside the whale, and after that time, Jonah stayed alive—he didn't die. That means Jesus will also stay for that long and remain alive! While Jonah was in the fish, he was alive and didn't die. So, Jesus will stay in the earth and won't die either. Just like Jonah came out of the fish still living, Jesus came out of the earth still living. See how this prophecy about Jesus lines up perfectly?

Check this out

19 That evening, on the first day of the week, while the disciples were locking the doors because they were afraid of the locals, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 20 When He said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples were overjoyed to see the Lord. 21 Then Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."

/ You see, Jesus is still alive. He didn't come back as some ghost; He had a physical body. In the Bible, Jesus said 36 "Indeed, we cannot die anymore: we are like angels and are God's children, for we are children of the resurrection." Someone who dies doesn't have a body—they become like angels—but look, Jesus had a body, which means He didn't die

While they were discussing this, Jesus stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 37 They were startled and terrified, thinking they were seeing a spirit. 38 But Jesus said to them, "Why are you afraid? Why do doubts fill your hearts? 39 Look at my hands and my feet! It is I! Touch me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I do." 40 Having said this, He showed them His hands and feet. 41 And while they were still too full of joy to believe and were simply staring in amazement, He said to them, "Do you have anything to eat here?" 42 They gave Him a piece of cooked fish, 43 and He took it and ate it in front of them. 44 Then He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: everything in Moses' Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms must be fulfilled concerning me.(Bible)

/ This text says it all. The disciples think they're seeing a ghost, but Jesus responds, "It is I! Touch me"

If anyone commits a sin deserving death and is hanged on a tree, his dead body must not remain on the tree overnight; bury him that same day, for anyone hanging on a tree is under God's curse.(Bible)

/ If they had actually crucified Jesus, He would have been a false prophet according to this: "If anyone commits a sin deserving death and is hanged on a tree." We all know Jesus never sinned—that's what we Americans believe, that He was completely free from sin.

6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice; knowledge of God, not burnt offerings(Bible)

Jesus says: Come and learn what this means: Mercy is what I desire, not sacrifice(Bible)

/ See, even Jesus wasn't about the sacrifice, yet Christians stubbornly insist that God sacrificed Jesus.

Did you know that Jesus' crucifixion is actually Paul's teaching? And remember, Paul never even saw Jesus in person

8 Speaking of Jesus Christ, who was raised from the dead, from the lineage of David—according to my gospel(Bible)

/ Here is your proof that this is Paul's teaching: "according to my gospel"

13 Then they brought little children to Him so He could place His hands on them and pray. But the disciples rebuked them. 14 Jesus said to them, "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these!"(Bible)

/ Here is proof against those Christians who argue that everyone is born sinful. Look, Jesus says, "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these!" That means children are without sin and deserve Paradise if they die in that state.

Did you know that Paul’s teachings don't actually line up with what Jesus taught?

Paul writes:
"Therefore, everyone who believes is justified, regardless of anything they couldn't achieve through the Law of Moses"! (Bible)

Basically, Paul is tossing out the Law of Moses, but look at what Jesus says in Matthew 5:17: "Don't think I came to get rid of the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. Truly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even the smallest letter or stroke will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 So, anyone who breaks even the least of these commands and teaches others to do the same will be the least in the kingdom of heaven."! (Bible).

So, which do you prioritize? Paul’s doctrine or Jesus’ teaching? Personally, I'm sticking with Jesus.

Now, here's the kicker: why do Christians insist on believing in Jesus being crucified? It's a huge point because the idea is that Jesus carries our sins—sins we inherited from Adam and Eve. But wait, Jesus said children go to heaven because they are without sin. If that's true, it completely contradicts the whole Christian foundation.

Think about it this way: would God really let one of His most beloved creations, Jesus, be killed while nearly naked on a cross just to humiliate Him? No way. God is powerful enough to save Him from His enemies.

Hannah Nelson4 said:Here you go, fellow forum members. This is exactly why Christ died.

Christians physically shielding Muslims during prayer.

That's not quite right. It’s really just a confirmation of what Allah said in the Quran.

You’re definitely going to find that the biggest headaches for believers are Jews and pagans; and you'll certainly discover that they are... For believers, the closest friends are those who say, "We are Christians."It’s because they have priests and monks among them who refuse to bow down.

Paul Kern12 said:Biblical Christianity doesn't teach the concept of original sin. We haven't inherited sin itself, but rather a sinful nature—a tendency toward it. A small child isn't a sinner; they become a sinner as they grow up. Just as a child isn't held accountable by secular laws until a certain age, perhaps they aren't held accountable by God either. However, they carry the seed of a sinful nature within them—which, I suspect, becomes more apparent as they mature. They begin to rebel against parents, school, authority in general, and eventually, against God. I could elaborate on this further if you're interested.

Anyone who confesses Jesus as their Savior, repents, and relies on Jesus' sacrifice on the cross receives His righteousness. For God has said: "The wages of sin is death." Jesus didn't die for His own sins—since He had none—but for the sins of those who believe in Him (though, unfortunately, I think there are very few true Christians who truly accept Him). I am not referring to "nominal Christians" here. Anyone who accepts Him is born again—born from above, from God. Through this, they become God's children. God no longer views them through the lens of their imperfections, but through His Son, Jesus Christ. Thus, God sees them as clean. A true, born-again Christian wouldn't intentionally sin! They wouldn't just do whatever they please, committing murder, theft, or rape. Those "Christians" who behave that way are merely proving that they were never truly born again.
For example: Imagine you, Harold Reyes3, were adopted by the Queen of England and recognized as her son. You are still the same old Harold Reyes—but now, you are a prince. It no longer suits you to get drunk, or act out, or behave crudely... simply because you are a prince. That is, of course, a bit of a caricature, but I am trying to bring the concept closer to what I mean.

We didn't inherit sin itself; we inherited a sinful nature—a built-in tendency toward it. Think about a toddler. A little kid isn't a sinner. They become sinners as they grow up. Just like a child isn't held legally accountable under U.S. law until they reach a certain age, they aren't held accountable before God either. But even then, that seed of a sinful nature is already there, starting to show its face as they mature. That’s when the rebellion kicks in—against parents, school, authority figures, and eventually, against God. I can dive deeper into this if you want!

It’s just one bit of nonsense after another. I totally agree. 🙄That’s completely irrelevant.
So, you're saying Jesus took on our sins—that inherent tendency we all have to mess up—right? But how does that work? Whether someone identifies as Muslim or Christian, people sin regardless. Nobody on this planet is perfect; not me, and certainly not you. So, what exactly is it that you mean when you say Jesus "took" them?

Anyone who accepts Jesus as their Savior, repents, and puts their full faith in His sacrifice on the cross receives His righteousness. It’s just how it works! After all, God said: The price for sin is death. "

Where is the logic in all of this? Seriously! If I locked myself in a room right now and stayed there for my entire life, I’d still end up dead. It doesn't matter if I lived a perfectly clean life or made a thousand mistakes. Everyone dies eventually—whether they were a saint or a sinner. So, if we follow that line of reasoning, why does death even exist for someone who has never committed a single sin? Just look at newborns! They haven't done anything wrong, yet they're part of this cycle. Come on, tell me you don't see how illogical that is!

Let me lay it out for you: the idea that death is the payment for sin? You'll find explanations for that in the Quran. When an unbeliever dies, they go through intense agony. It might not look like much from the outside because they’re paralyzed, but as the soul leaves the body, it’s like pulling wool out of a thorn bush—pure pain. That suffering is the direct result of their sins. Death itself isn't the punishment; hell is. Hell is where the actual sentence for those sins is carried out, not the moment of death.
On the flip side, a believer passes away peacefully. Even if a massive semi-truck were to hit them, it wouldn't matter; their soul slips out of the body as smoothly as water sliding off a surface.

If death were already the price paid for sin, then what's the point of hell? What, is it just for a weekend field trip or a picnic?🙄 Give me a break.

Anyone who accepts Jesus as their Savior, repents, and puts their faith in Jesus' sacrifice on the cross receives His righteousness.

Where does it actually say that in the Bible? Where does Jesus say, "When I die on the cross, you get my righteousness and I will be your Savior"? It’s nowhere. That whole concept is just something people made up based on their own personal interpretations to suit their needs.

And honestly, what you wrote contradicts the Bible anyway. You called Jesus the Savior, but the Bible says God is the only Savior, not Jesus.

JESUS IS NOT A SINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!

It doesn't matter. Nobody is going to carry someone else's baggage; that's the whole point.

Just because Jesus is sinless doesn't mean he's going to take the fall for all our mistakes.

God says:

41. If they try to drag you into their lies, just tell them: "My business is mine, and yours is yours; you aren't responsible for my actions, and I’m not responsible for yours."

42. Some people show up just to listen. But can you actually make the deaf hear, especially when they lack common sense?

43. Then there are those who just watch you. Can you really guide the blind toward the right path if they have no reason?

44. Truly, Allah will never treat people unfairly; we are the ones creating our own mess..

25. Say: "You won't be held accountable for our sins, and we won't be held accountable for yours."

26. Say: "Our Lord will gather us all and judge us fairly. He is the righteous, all-knowing Judge."

There is absolutely zero logic in thinking Jesus would shoulder other people's sins. First off, that would be totally unfair to him. Why should Jesus take the blame for someone committing a crime just to satisfy their impulses? What does he have to do with someone murdering an innocent person, stealing, or beating someone up?