Posts by Harold Reyes3

You’re acting like someone who just cherry-picks specific verses to suit your own agenda. I say this because you aren't even aware of Psalm 22 or Isaiah 53—two massive pillars in the OT that describe a Messiah destined to suffer and die. You’re missing these fundamental parts of the Bible, yet you have the nerve to lecture Christians who live by these scriptures every single day for strength and purpose... especially regarding the death of Jesus, a topic where you clearly lack the basic biblical foundation.

It isn't about digging through the Bible; why should I have to hunt for proof when I can just cite the Bible and the Quran to back my points? I post my arguments here so you don't have to go digging through books just to call me out. 🙄

Let’s use some actual logic here. What does it even mean for Jesus to die for our sins?

What kind of "sins" are we talking about? We know there is no concept of original sin stemming from Adam and Eve, because Jesus says children go to heaven. That proves they are sinless—after all, how could anyone enter heaven carrying sin?

Second, since we’ve cleared up the whole original sin issue, what sins are left? It's obviously the things we do now and the things we'll do in the future. Why is the idea that Jesus carries our sins so dangerous? Because it creates a loophole. Someone might think, "Hey, if He died for my sins, I can do whatever I want as long as I believe." People could murder, rape, steal, or abuse, thinking Jesus will just shoulder the blame.
It’s totally illogical. Believe whatever you want, but to me, common sense aligns much better with what God says in the Quran. Take a good look at it—I think anyone using their head will see what

God says in the Quran:

15. Whoever follows the straight path does so for their own benefit, but whoever wanders astray does so to their own detriment. And no sinner shall bear the burden of another. And We never punish a nation until We have sent a messenger!

160. Whoever does a good deed will be rewarded tenfold, but whoever does an evil deed will only be punished according to its weight, and no injustice will be done to them.

I think anyone—whether Christian, Jew, Buddhist, or Hindu—would agree with what God is saying here.

And no sinner shall bear the burden of another.

To me, that’s just pure logic and common sense. You answer for your own actions, not someone else.

Anthony Perez9 said:Nah, it’s not absurd; it’s considered the ultimate sin, and here’s why (snip)[/I]

To me, that's easily the worst trait any religion can have. 🙄

The idea that some theory regarding the origin of Good can be labeled the absolute worst possible sin is wild. Does it really matter how someone perceives Goodness? As long as they actually practice it and aren't hurting anyone, who cares?

If we start prioritizing abstract ideas over actual goodness, we're just opening the door to the most horrific crimes committed in the name of "ideas" about God.

Well, look at the Quran: if you set up partners alongside God, you're essentially calling God a liar. God says He stands alone, with no other gods, yet people claim otherwise. By doing that, you're telling God He's wrong and stripping Him of His rightful place by giving that devotion to made-up idols instead.
That is a direct hit against God.

And when it comes to sins involving hurting others? Those are huge sins too! God commands us to do good for people—helping the poor, our families, orphans, the sick, and so on.

Not Paul, but Jesus:

And when he went indoors, his disciples asked him about this teaching. He said to them, "Don't you see that nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them? For it doesn't enter the heart but goes into the stomach, and then out of the body?" In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.

Mark 7:17-19

There's a massive question here: did Jesus actually say this if we look at it logically?

If eating pork can give you all sorts of parasites, how exactly did Jesus "cleanse" all foods? If a meal can actually kill you because it's contaminated—like getting worms from undercooked pork—how does that work?

Also, why didn't Jesus eat it if what he was saying was true? It feels hypocritical—saying one thing but doing another. And we know Jesus wasn't a hypocrite, not even close.

It honestly feels a little absurd. Why would God get so offended or worked up just because someone believed that the good Jesus is actually God?

It’s not just absurd—it’s actually the ultimate sin. And here’s why.

Think about it this way: when someone decides to follow a different god instead of the one true God, it’s just like a kid deciding that a stranger is their mother. They start ignoring everything their real mom tells them, tossing aside her sincere advice just to listen to what some random person on the street says. It's the same deal with people missing God's guidance in the Quran; they simply refuse to believe, or they can't wrap their heads around the fact that the Quran actually comes from God.
It’s easy to slip up and fall into sin, whether you realize you're doing it or not, simply because you're missing the rules. Think about it like this: if you don't know the tax laws in the US, you're going to mess up your filings, and before you know it, the IRS is knocking on your door with penalties. It’s the same deal with faith. People stumble into sin because they don't actually know what God commands. Instead, they spend their lives following made-up deities that never gave them any real guidance on how to live a righteous life.

How can anyone claim Jesus is God when He seemingly denies it Himself? It just doesn't add up. To me, it completely defies common sense—a human being simply cannot be God.

You could just laugh it off and tell him he miscalculated—even if his heart was in the right place. There's no need to go throwing boiling water at him, beating him with clubs, or setting his skin on fire over a simple mistake.

Here’s what went wrong: he completely misread the situation by breaking God's commandments in every way imaginable. It’s simple—God tells us to stay away from pork and alcohol because they're bad for you. But then you have people acting like it's no big deal, claiming that Paul gave them the green light to do whatever they want. 🙄 Then you see people dead in the streets from car wrecks, women being assaulted at parties because everyone's wasted, or kids and wives getting beaten by some guy who’s had way too much to drink. It's just constant.

It’s like seeing people head to the doctor because they’ve got brain parasites from eating bad pork.
It all boils down to ignoring God's commandments and stepping right into those murky waters. When you disregard His rules, you end up facing consequences here in this life, not to mention what's waiting for you in the next.

All you Christians—or whatever you call yourselves...
Oh right, those are your favorite verses, and they can't be mistakes (of course, a mistake is just anything that doesn't fit your narrative... 🙄 )
You know perfectly well that anyone who believes Jesus is God will be rejected on Judgment Day, right?

Look, I’m telling you again, argue all you want👍 but it is what it is.

I’ve only shown you a tiny fraction of the massive list of errors out there, yet you still just shrug. Whenever you actually open the Bible, you just sniff and skim right over them like they aren't even there.👍

You know perfectly well that anyone who believes Jesus is God will be rejected on Judgment Day, right?

That’s exactly my point! He’s going to reject every Christian who claims he is God. Jesus never claimed to be God himself; I have mountains of evidence from the Bible, the Quran, and plain old logic proving he isn't.

Can you seriously picture Jesus being God? Like, the God who created the entire universe being a tiny baby in diapers having his butt wiped by his mom after a diaper change?🙄

Secondly, there is a ton of biblical proof that Jesus isn't God. If you’ve already locked your mind against that, there’s no changing it if you leave your brain in the closet.

Here is what Jesus says:

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God"".

Who is Jesus ascending to? Some other God, or himself? Use some logic!

Jesus says God is one, but you guys try to invent two, three, or more of them.🙄

Either Jesus lacks knowledge, or you believe in a God who doesn't know things.

Mark 13:32 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, only the Father."

Jesus doesn't know, but the Father does. Does that sound like Jesus is God to you?🙄

Jesus also says:
John 14:28 "...For the Father is greater than I""

If Jesus equals the Father/God, why does Jesus say Jesus < Father?

Again, zero logic here.

Was Jesus a man???

According to the Bible, yes.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus"

And then there is this verse elsewhere:

Hosea 11:9 "...for I am God, not a man"

So, you can conclude that:

The man Jesus

God is not a man.

Which leads me to the conclusion that God is not Jesus.

It’s incredibly simple. Just open the Bible and check for yourself. How hard can that be to understand?

And Jesus says he will reject Christians on Judgment Day. Here is the proof from the Bible: it's happening precisely because you call him God.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

Anyway, getting back ON-TOPIC:
How do you interpret the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah suffering and being killed?
Specifically Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22?

Let me see what it says—go find those texts for me.

Alex Ramos91 said:Directly? Or supposedly through an angel—Gabriel? 🙄

Whatever, he still managed to sneak those Satanic thoughts into the Quran, 🙄didn't he?

If not his own, then he was busy writing about Allah's daughters: al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat. 🙄

All Christians? "Nominal" Christians, or...?
Oh right, those are your favorite verses, aren't they? They can't be mistakes (of course, a "mistake" is only a mistake when it doesn't suit your little narrative... 🙄 ))
You know perfectly well that anyone who believes Jesus is God will be rejected on Judgment Day, right?

Anyway, getting back ON-TOPIC:
How do you interpret the Old Testament prophecies stating that the Messiah would suffer and be killed?
Specifically Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22?

Directly, or supposedly through an angel—Gabriel? 🙄

You can just say it straight—Gabriel was really just the messenger.
Think about it this way: whatever God tells Muhammad, he passes it along directly. It’s almost like Gabriel is just acting as a smartphone or a telephone wire between God and Muhammad.

It’s more than just that—during his Miraj, Muhammad spoke directly with Allah without any middleman. He ascended to the heavens and had that face-to-face moment.

If he wasn't talking about his own people, then he was clearly writing about Allah's daughters: al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat.

😂 Look, honey, you've got it all wrong. Those were just pagans giving names to their idols around the Kaaba—they weren't actual daughters!

The way Allah explains things in the Quran is just so incredibly brief and direct. It's straight to the point!

It feels like the heavens are about to tear wide open, the earth is ready to split right under our feet, and the mountains are just waiting to crumble before the Merciful. They’re claiming He had a child. It’s just impossible to wrap your head around—the idea that the Merciful would have a kid." (Quran, Mary 90-92)

It's just impossible to wrap my head around the idea of Allah having a child.Praise be to Him! When He makes a decision, all He has to do is say, "Let there be," and it's done. It’s that simple!Quran

I say: "Praise be to Allah, who has never taken a son for Himself! "Who else holds absolute power without any partners? Who else stands as the ultimate protector for those who have no strength to defend themselves? Praise Him for His greatness!" (Quran, Al-Isra', 111)

Alright, let's put this to the test. Let’s dive into what the Quran actually says about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. Once we're done, you'll see just how little you really know—or more accurately, how far off the mark your understanding of the Quran and Islam actually is!

God says:

19. What’s your take on Lat and Uzza?
And let’s not forget Manat—sitting right there as the third least respected.? –
Are you guys seriously saying sons belong to you, but He has daughters?!
That would just be an unfair split.
23. Those are just names you and your ancestors made up. God hasn't provided any proof for them; people are just following nothing but assumptions. They long for things that don't matter, while the Lord’s true guidance is already being sent their way..

This is exactly what you're looking at here: 👍
They just follow nothing but assumptions. Basically, man, you're just chasing "maybe this" or "maybe that"—it's all guesswork and has zero connection to reality.

Alex Ramos91 said:I hear you loud and clear. I totally get what you're saying.

Except for one thing:
You still haven't answered my question! Seriously, how am I supposed to just brush off Peter's validation of Paul's teachings based on the Bible? You can't just ignore that.

Look, I already laid it all out when we talked about pork—everything lines up perfectly with the Bible. Jesus said it’s not what goes into a person that defiles them, Peter said it, and Paul said the exact same thing... Period. End of story.

Look, there’s nothing I can do for you here. Honestly, it’s just way easier for you to brush off Jesus' words as mistakes whenever they don't fit neatly into your little philosophy, isn't it?
Honestly, continuing this discussion with all these ridiculous exaggerations is just a complete waste of time—not to mention it’s totally off-topic. We should honestly just be thankful the moderators haven't nuked our last few posts yet.

Peter was clearly the leader among Jesus' disciples. It was him that Jesus trusted with the keys to the kingdom to open things up for the Gentiles—which is exactly what happened when he was sent over to the house of Cornelius, a Roman centurion. That was the massive turning point where the first non-Jew officially stepped up to embrace faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit.

And what about this whole idea of Satan inspiring a vision? Isn't it true that on a couple of occasions, Satan actually inspired Muhammad? 🙄

But here's the deal:
1) You haven't explained how I can just ignore Peter's validation of Paul's teachings based on the Bible, right?

Hold on a second—who are you actually putting your faith in? Jesus' teachings or Paul's?
Second, I have no idea how credible it is for someone like Peter to back someone who supposedly removes what Jesus strictly forbade. Paul could have easily made that up and claimed all the other disciples supported him, even if they didn't—who's going to step in to investigate and verify that? Honestly, I think you're wading into murky waters by going against Jesus and His teachings just because Paul's doctrine happens to suit you better. After all, who would actually give up pork, wine, and all those other treats 🙄 when people are eating and drinking them at every turn?

2) I've already shown that everything in the Bible aligns perfectly regarding pork. Jesus said it doesn't defile a person, Peter agreed, and Paul said the exact same thing... Period.

How can Jesus say something doesn't defile anyone when it can actually ruin a person's life? If you don't believe me, check out this video.

Parasites in a woman's brain caused by eating pork.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwstyazpFpE

It makes zero sense that someone so close to God would allow something that God explicitly forbade—especially since Jesus Himself didn't eat it. If He had permitted it, He would have eaten it Himself.

Just look at what God says in the Bible about pork:

"And the pig, though it has divided hooves, it does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. Do not eat their meat or touch their carcasses—they are unclean to you." (Bible, Leviticus 11:7,8)

Are you just leaving your common sense at the door and following your cravings instead?
How can Jesus say pork is clean and allowed when...

What does God actually forbid in the Bible?
Jesus never ate pork. Period.
Science backs this up: pork is unclean. You can end up with all sorts of nasty parasites like tapeworms crawling into your system.
Look at a pig: they’ll eat anything. Snakes, dogs, literal garbage, dead bodies—they'll even turn on their own kind. It's pure survival instinct.

So then you're telling me that Jesus actually said it was okay to eat? 🙄

Peter stood out as the leader among Jesus' disciples. It was Peter who received those keys to the kingdom, giving him the authority to open the doors for the Gentiles. This all came to a head when he was sent straight to the home of Cornelius, a Roman centurion. That was the big turning point—the moment where one of the Gentiles became the very first to embrace faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit.

.

I’m not sure if he actually handed anything over, but there’s just no logic in it. It makes zero sense for Peter or Paul—or anyone else for that matter—to take what Jesus brought and start twisting his teachings. If they started messing with the core message and people just blindly followed along, the whole thing falls apart. It simply doesn't add up.

What about Satan influencing a vision? Didn't Satan actually influence Muhammad on a few occasions?

Let’s see if Satan inspired this particular part of the Quran.

Listen up, sons of Adam! Didn't I tell you clearly? Don't go bowing down to Satan. He's your enemy, plain and simple. Instead, turn to Me and worship. That is the only way to go!"Peace be upon them all, and let them live in bliss." (Ya-Sin, 60-61) — Quran

Satan is your enemy, plain and simple. Treat him like one! He’s basically telling his followers that if they want to stay, they’ve got to be ready to live in the heat! (Fatir, 6.)

Just imagine—Satan trying to feed Muhammad those kinds of dreams.

Look, don't sugarcoat it: Satan is your enemy. Treat him like one! Look, if you want this to actually make sense, you’ve gotta tell me. If we're going to walk through the logic here, then the verse should probably flow like this.

If someone actually claimed "Satan isn't as bad as people say," then they’d have some serious reason to be suspicious.

I wasn't talking about you—I was talking about Muhammad, who tells his version of the story about Jesus centuries after the fact...

First off, Muhammad didn't just make up stories. This was direct revelation from God. In the Quran, God basically says He would have struck Muhammad down instantly if he had tried to add even one single thing of his own to the text, and no human could have saved him from God's judgment then.

Just look at the Quran itself. If Muhammad were just writing whatever he wanted, why is his name only mentioned five times while Jesus' name appears 25 times? Why didn't Muhammad write about his beloved daughters, his mother, or his father? Because God didn't reveal anything about them, so he wasn't allowed to write a word! Plus, he couldn't even read or write. If you still think the Quran comes from Muhammad, why is there a whole chapter named Mary, after Jesus' mother? Why isn't it named after Fatima, his daughter, or his mother Amina? Amen.

The point isn't what Christians believe regarding the Trinity; the point is what the Quran actually says about the Christian Trinity.
You haven't answered my question, using nothing but the Quran to back it up...

Well, God clearly says to stop saying "they are the Trinity" or "it's a Trinity," because it's not true and it doesn't please God. You know exactly what people mean when they talk about the Trinity—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We don't need to beat around the bush about who that refers to.

From where I'm standing, the Quran says Christians claim there are THREE Gods.
It also claims Christians set up Jesus and Mary as two gods alongside Allah... (making three total).

The math and logic are simple: the Quran describes the Christian "three Gods" as Allah, Jesus, and Mary.

Why dodge this obvious error in the Quran? It looks like Muhammad's misunderstanding of what Christians actually mean when they speak of the Triune God...

You're totally missing my point again.

In one part, God tells people to stop claiming there is a Trinity. Basically, don't use that term and don't believe it, because it's made up.

Then, in another part, God asks Jesus on Judgment Day about how he taught people to worship him and his mother as two gods. Jesus will deny that immediately and distance himself from those Christian beliefs. Even in the Bible, it says Jesus will turn away from certain Christians on Judgment Day. That's not an error; that's just how it is. I know this because I've spent years debating people like you.

A really motivating way to start a post!

I don't get how I'm supposed to be "comforted" by that. And what exactly is wrong with my logic here?
Please explain—why should I just toss out Paul's letters when Peter (a circumcised Jew) confirms them and puts them in the same category as inspired scripture?

Look, let me simplify this since we aren't clicking: stick to what Jesus says and avoid cloning those types who preach the exact opposite of His words. When you look at it that way, you compare Paul's teachings to Jesus' teachings and the contradiction is massive. Sometimes I seriously wonder why you Christians prioritize Paul over Jesus. It just doesn't make sense to me at all.
If Jesus didn't eat pork and strictly forbid getting rid of the Law, how can anyone follow a guy preaching something totally contrary to everything Jesus taught after the Ascension?

When I ask people, "Hey, have you guys lost your minds? Jesus told us this,"
you respond with, "No, hold on, Paul tells us this." 🙄 If aliens were watching this debate, they’d see that we are Muslim followers of Jesus, while you are clearly Christian followers of Paul. It's as plain as day.

Jesus came through His life to reveal the true meaning of the Law—which is love, righteousness, and mercy.

That’s just pure speculation. There is absolutely no logic in what you're saying, and here is why:

Isn't this a better explanation? Jesus came to show through His life how to follow the Old Testament laws and how to serve God, so that we could all follow Him and reach Heaven. If Jesus had come to abolish any part of the Law, He would have been the first to stop eating pork to show us it wasn't an issue anymore. Period. But he didn't. Jesus strictly adhered to the Law and didn't allow anyone to scrap it, which is exactly what Paul did later.
Of course, as a Godly messenger, Jesus came to show the world how to act—showing mercy, forgiving people, being righteous, etc.—so others could follow Him to salvation. Not some mystical ideology where Jesus comes to show us mercy by being tortured semi-naked on a cross and humiliated. Honestly, it makes zero sense.

On this point said:"15 Nothing outside a person enters them that can defile them, but what comes out of them, that is what defiles them. 16 Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear!" 17 When He entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable. 18 He said to them, "Don't you understand? Don't you realize that nothing outside a person can defile them 19 because it doesn't enter their heart, but goes into the stomach and then out into the sewer?" In this way, He cleansed all foods. 20 He went on to say, "What comes out of a person is what defiles them." (Mark 7)

This cannot be right. This has to be a mistake because it contradicts everything Jesus actually did—He didn't eat pork and He didn't permit it. So, who do we trust more? God, who says in the Old Testament that pork is unclean and must not be eaten (and Jesus Himself didn't eat it), or someone else who authorizes it and says the opposite of what God and Jesus spoke? Plus, science tells us pork is unclean, which confirms exactly what God said in the Old Testament and what Jesus strictly followed.


"Cleanse all foods"? Come on, let’s be real here—can you actually say that about every single thing we eat? No matter how much you tell yourself otherwise, certain animals will always be inherently unclean. Just look at that woman who ended up with brain parasites from eating pork. And seriously, how can anyone claim pork is clean? I’ve seen people eat snakes, dogs, literal garbage, dead bodies, and even their own kind—it's cannibalism! How can an animal like that ever be considered pure? 🙄 Please, man, wake up. Take a second to think deeply, soberly, and logically.

Beyond that, in the Book of Acts, Peter (not Paul) had a famous vision regarding unclean animals where God told him to "kill and eat"... And at the Council of Jerusalem, the apostles and elders, along with Paul, decided on a few specific things that Gentile Christians should avoid just to show solidarity with the Jewish Christians, for whom that issue was still huge. Later on, Paul says he's free, but he shouldn't cause a brother to stumble—like if someone is a vegetarian and refuses to eat meat at all... because "the Kingdom of Heaven isn't about what you eat or drink, but about righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit."

But can we really trust people who aren't God's messengers? They claim they had some "vision," but who’s to guarantee that? For all we know, Satan himself could have whispered those thoughts into their heads.🙄
Only God's messengers receive visions through dreams or revelations, because they are God's people and know His laws best; God communicates with them through His angels. We can't say the same for ordinary mortals, which is why we shouldn't take the random visions of just anyone seriously.

And it's even worse when these visions make zero sense according to common sense and science. Listen to this: "The Kingdom of Heaven isn't about what you eat or drink, but about righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit". By that logic, you could drink alcohol until you drop, eat pork until you get brain parasites, or even do drugs! If the vision says it's not about what goes *in* but what comes *out*, then apparently taking drugs isn't a sin? Even though drugs can kill you, someone could just shrug and say, "It's not a sin." Seriously, guys, what are you thinking? This way of reasoning is wild.

Paul held the exact same faith on this issue as Jesus did!

Not even close. They have absolutely nothing in common.

Alex Ramos91 said:Look, when you bring up Luke, you have to realize he was a systematic historian through and through. He didn't just scribble things down; he conscientiously gathered the oral traditions that were actually valued back then—way more than they are in our hyper-modern, skeptical age. I really hope you realize that.

Look, it’s pretty simple if you actually look at the facts. Aside from Luke, we’re talking about the Gospels written by Jesus' own apostles—Matthew and John. That means we have first-hand accounts right there. As for the rest? Mark likely penned his portion under Peter's mentorship, considering how closely he worked alongside him. It's not that complicated.

I still stand by those reports. Straight from the horse's mouth. Look, I’m just going to say it: I trust the actual historical record way more than some twisted opinion from someone living in a completely different culture, centuries after the events even happened. Sorry, but my common sense just won't let me go along with that.

Question: The Quran claims that Christians have... Which THREE? God?

Thanks for quoting those two texts...👍

I’m asking you again: if you're reading nothing but the Quran and you don't know the first thing about Christianity, what conclusion are you being forced into? What are these "three Christian Gods" you keep talking about?

I don't even feel the need to address that, because biblical Christians don't practice anything like that...

Even when you bring up Luke, remember he was a systematic historian through and through. He didn't just scribble things down; he meticulously gathered oral traditions. Back then, that kind of rigor carried way more weight than our modern "post everything instantly" culture does today. I really hope you realize that!

What else were they supposed to do? Most people back then couldn't even write, let alone have access to a TV, radio, smartphone, or a computer. If you don't have the internet, all you've got is storytelling. It was their only way to pass the time!

Aside from Luke, we have Gospels written by Jesus' own apostles—Matthew and John—so that’s straight from the source. As for the rest, Mark likely penned his account under Peter's guidance, since he was such a close associate.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the Gospels were written while Jesus was actually walking the earth, or even right after his life here ended.

Here’s a quick breakdown of that.

The four canonical Gospels! Think of them like four different camera angles filming the exact same historic event—you get the full picture because you see it from every perspective.
When we look at the written record, there are four Gospels that made it to us, all accepted by Christians as canonical. The oldest one is Mark's, and it kicks things off with these words: "The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God" (Mark 1:1). Mark's Gospel was written before the year 70., Matthew's and Luke's accounts were also written after the year 70.Think of these three Gospels as the "synoptic" trio—they’re basically designed to be read side-by-side. It looks like Matthew and Luke definitely had Mark's Gospel on their desks, and they likely tapped into a shared pool of Jesus' sayings known as "Q." It's like three different reporters covering the exact same press conference! John's Gospel, which was written toward the end of the 1st century.It’s the youngest one, but man, does it bring some incredibly ancient traditions to the table! Plus, its whole structure feels totally different compared to the first three Gospels.

I still think eyewitness accounts carry way more weight than some skewed opinion from a different culture written centuries after the fact. Sorry, but common sense just won't let me see it any other way.

Man, if only God had given us firsthand accounts, we wouldn't have all these errors! Besides, my background doesn't matter. For us Muslims, Jesus is on the exact same level as Muhammad; we don't draw lines between them. In fact, we believe in Jesus even more deeply than Christians do.

So, the whole "different nation" thing is totally irrelevant here. Don't worry about who’s talking—just listen to what they're actually saying.😉

Question: What does the Quran say regarding the three SPECIFIC Gods that Christians supposedly have?

Thanks for quoting those two texts...👍

Let me repeat the question: If you were reading nothing but the Quran and knew zero about Christianity, what conclusion would be forced upon you regarding these "three Christian Gods"?

Well, when God says not to speak falsely, it's referring to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Even though your belief functions effectively like having three Gods, you just package it as one Trinity. But Jesus himself said this:

Jesus responded: "Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is one."I don't see anywhere in the Bible that mentions a Triune God.

But you Christians split Him into three parts and essentially create three Gods. You can't find proof that Jesus and God are one and the same, especially since Jesus says the Father is greater than him.
It means it's not "Son = Father" like you claim with the Trinity; instead, it's "Son < Father," just like Jesus stated.

Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—that's three Gods. But because you can't bring yourselves to openly admit to having three Gods, you wrap it all up into one. That's where these massive contradictions with the biblical texts start popping up.

When those manuscripts were discovered in Qumran back in 1947, researchers compared them—dating all the way back to before Christ—with our modern translations of the Old Testament. It turns out those texts, despite being separated by over 2,000 years, match up at over 95%! That remaining 5%? Those are just obvious typos or minor spelling slips. They don't change the actual message at all. For example: looking at 166 words in Isaiah 53, we’re only talking about 17 letters. Ten of those letters are just simple scribal quirks that don't affect the meaning. Four are minor stylistic tweaks, like using different conjunctions. The last three involve the word "light," which was added in line 11 but doesn't shift the core point. Plus, that word actually has support in the Septuagint and the IQ Isaiah scroll found in the caves near the Dead Sea. So, out of a 166-word passage, there's only one three-letter word that's even questionable, and even then, it doesn't change the meaning of the fragment.

If what you're saying is true, why didn't they fix the mistakes in the Bible? Instead, these errors are everywhere.

It just makes no sense. People only pull these "errors" out of thin air when they want to corner someone.

A holy book from God shouldn't and can't have mistakes, yet the Bible does. The Bible itself says it was shaped through the stories of various peoples, so logically, errors are bound to happen. Not only that, but people intentionally altered the Bible—adding what suited them and cutting what they didn't like—and then passed it off to the public as being from God.

As for the New Testament, we can verify its authenticity through more than 25,000 existing manuscripts.

Well, regarding the New Testament, it's just as full of mistakes as the Old Testament. And I'm not just rambling about random errors; let me show you exactly why I say they are full of them.

An Old Testament error:

CONTRADICTION 6: Did David capture 1,700 or 7,000 charioteers?

1,700 charioteers:

"David captured one thousand seven hundred charioteers and twenty thousand foot soldiers. David gave all the horses to the Amorites, leaving only a hundred horses."
(2 Samuel 8:4)

7,000 charioteers:

"David took from them one thousand chariots, seven thousand charioteers, and twenty thousand foot soldiers. David gave all the horses to the Amorites, leaving only a hundred horses."
(1 Chronicles 18:4)

An Old Testament error:

CONTRADICTION 38: Is Jesus' testimony true?

It is true:
„Jesus said to them, "Even if I testify about myself, my testimony is true.“ (John 8:14)

It is not true:
„If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true..“ (John 5:31)

And check this out—look closely at what God says about what you all have done with the Bible:

13. But because they broke their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They would remove words from places where they belonged and leave out a good part of what they were warned about. You will encounter much deceit among them, except for a few, but forgive them and do not rebuke them—for indeed, Allah loves those who do good.

79. Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah"—just to gain a little profit! Woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they gain from it!

The Quran itself isn't an authority (at least not for Christians) when it comes to judging the Bible—especially considering when it was written.

That’s hardly an argument against the Quran! Think about it: if it came later, does that mean the walls should have spoken up about the Gospels? It arrived after the Torah, so that doesn't make it invalid. 🙄Give me a break.

I honestly think you’re out of your depth discussing Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection because you just don't grasp the core of Christianity. You're judging the entire faith based on Roman Catholic interpretations and their misconceptions. Their theology has done massive damage because non-Christians end up judging all of Christianity by one big error.

Look, I'm basing my arguments on your own texts, not on what some random person says.

Alex Ramos91 said:Look, let’s get one thing straight: Paul wasn't some outsider trying to dodge the "real" apostles. He didn't have anything to hide from them. He laid out the exact gospel he was preaching right to the Twelve, and they actually gave him the green light to take that message straight to the Gentiles. You can find the whole thing written out in the book of Galatians if you actually bother to read it. Plus, if you look at the Book of Acts, it's crystal clear—Paul kept the believers back in Jerusalem fully looped in on everything God was doing through him among the Gentiles, and they were right there celebrating God's work alongside him.

If you want undeniable proof that Paul and the other apostles were all on the exact same page, just look at what Peter wrote. He makes it crystal clear in his second letter—written right toward the end of his life:
"Think of the Lord’s patience as our path to salvation, just like it says. Seriously, you have to look at it that way. Our beloved brother Paul He just wrote whatever wisdom popped into his head that day. Just like that. To all the epistles! Where does it actually say that? Look, there’s stuff in those texts that’s just plain confusing. If you aren't careful, or if you're constantly jumping from one idea to the next without any backbone, it’s incredibly easy to twist those words out of context. I've seen it happen way too often. Just like all the other Letters. You're just asking for trouble. Seriously, you're heading straight for a disaster." (2.Peter's 2:15-16)

Look, Peter actually goes even further than that here—he’s basically putting Paul’s letters right up there in the same category as inspired Scripture (you know, the stuff they were counting as Old Testament at the time).

Look, Paul... 😛 Paul says that talking about the cross—about God's own Messiah dying such a shameful death—is a total stumbling block for the Jews. I mean, how can God’s perfect Anointed One be cursed? And honestly, looking at some of the Muslims in this group, they get just as offended by that message. Then you’ve got the Greeks. To them, the whole thing is just pure madness. With their obsession with philosophy, they basically laid the groundwork for Western civilization and everything we call "modern thought" today, yet even now, they still look at this story and see nothing but nonsense.
For those who actually have faith, talking about the Cross isn't just some religious ritual—it’s God's power in action. Period.

Look, I don't usually go around quoting the Bible in my posts, so bear with me while I get a little long-winded here. I just want you to truly grasp how much the Cross means to believers. Even Paul was fully aware of how scandalous and, frankly, "foolish" it seemed to the world. But that’s exactly the point—it highlights God's wisdom. It’s completely different from how we think; it’s unexpected and totally counterintuitive. If it were up to us, we’d probably just try to outsmart our way out of it.

Look, Christ didn't send me out there just to go around baptizing people—that’s not my job. My mission is to preach the Gospel. And I’m not doing it with some fancy, polished oratorical bullshit just to make sure nobody feels embarrassed by the idea of Christ's cross. Seriously. To the people who are headed straight for destruction, talking about the cross sounds like total madness. But for us? For those of us being saved? It’s the literal power of God. It’s written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will set aside the intelligence of the intellectuals." So, where are they now? Where’s all that self-proclaimed "wise" crowd? Where are the scholars and the academic experts trying to deconstruct everything? Hasn't God already made a fool out of the world's supposed brilliance? Honestly, it’s hilarious. When the world fails to know God through its own "intellect," God decides to use the seemingly foolish preaching of the Gospel to save believers. It’s a complete subversion of their logic. I mean, think about it. You have the Jews looking for specific signs and the Greeks chasing after philosophy and cleverness, right? And here we are, just preaching about a crucified Christ. To the Jews, it’s a stumbling block. To the outsiders, it looks insane. But to everyone called to Him—both Jew and Greek—it is the very power and wisdom of God. God’s "foolishness" is infinitely wiser than any human genius, and His weakness is a hell of a lot stronger than any human strength. As it says: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what has never entered the human heart, God has prepared for those who love Him."

God's wrath fell on Jesus, sure, but God's wrath is still hanging over this world today—it just shows up a little differently now. If you look at Romans 1, you see it manifests by God essentially letting people go their own way; He leaves those with hardened hearts who have zero love for the truth to follow their own paths, and eventually, they'll get exactly what they deserve based on those choices.
Yeah, the wrath fell on Jesus, but if we want to be spared from God's wrath ourselves, we have to "hide" under the protection of the cross, meaning we have to accept Jesus' sacrifice, experience personal forgiveness, and start a new relationship with God as a Father rather than a Judge. 🙂

You can stress about this all you want, but one thing is certain:

Jesus came to fulfill the laws, ensuring they are carried out rather than tossed aside. After all, He lived them perfectly and showed everyone exactly how they should be followed.

If His goal had been to scrap the laws, He would have acted against them Himself to show everyone how to handle them. But nope! He stuck to them strictly and forbade anyone from abolishing them. So what happens next? Paul shows up, scraps the laws, gives Christians the thumbs up to do the same, and suddenly everyone starts following Paul instead of what Jesus actually said. Bravo! 👍Basically, you're giving priority to Paul—who never even met Jesus—over the actual words of Jesus.

If Jesus wanted to abolish the laws, He would have just said, "Hey, look, I'm eating pork, so go ahead and eat it too; the laws don't count anymore." But He never did that. Then along comes Paul, wipes it all out, and creates an entirely new religion called Christianity. Jesus never taught people "Christianity," and honestly, if someone tried to explain the concept of "Christianity" to Him in Aramaic, He probably wouldn't have known what they were talking about. It would have been totally foreign to Him.

It's just like if we suddenly threw away everything Muhammad taught and started following some fool after Muhammad passed away. 🙄It makes zero sense. Can you imagine a bigger delusion?

So, what Paul says doesn't matter at all if he isn't sharing the same faith as Jesus.

Anthony Perez9 said:You could ask the same thing about Paul. Why should we care about those weird visions he had when he never actually sat down with the living Jesus or even hung out with the "real" apostles? How do we know his writings aren't just some random Greek rambling? 🤷

And let's be real, the Quran is clearly full of errors when it comes to how it portrays Christian doctrine. Like, it tries to define the Trinity as the Father, the Son, and... well, it just gets it wrong. Mary

I wonder what the Muslims have to say about this. 🙄

As for why Jesus had to die on a cross, I’ve got a link in my signature for a post that clears things up a bit...

I’ve always found the whole idea of Jesus' brutal sacrifice on the cross a little hard to wrap my head around. You're saying that... Just drank a full glass of God's wrath. May he suffer immensely for every sin committed in the past and the future, torn away from the Trinity. What a shame.

Imagine if King David had committed some massive sin—like orchestrating the murder of a man just to steal his wife—and then Jesus stepped in to take all that divine wrath upon himself through his suffering.
So he just rounded up all those other demons and unleashed God's wrath on every single criminal and monster out there.

It's honestly too absurd and grotesque for me to even bother engaging with. Honestly, it’s just terrible sci-fi. Like, some alien shows up on Earth and starts picking up... Just all the evil, the bad, and the pure malice. Take them right off the face of the earth and toss them into some dark pit. 😂

P.S. And again, when I start getting a little tipsy, there’s definitely "something" to it. It's like God actually drank a whole glass of His own wrath.
Good for him if he actually did that. At least we won't have to deal with those hysterical outbursts of rage like you see in the Old Testament. (Think Dawkins and that comment he made about Yahweh.)

Way to go, Anthony Perez9! It’s like you reached right into my brain and pulled those exact thoughts out onto the screen.👍

Everyone, please read what Anthony Perez9 wrote here. Seriously, take a second to sit with this. Wake up and start thinking a little deeper about these topics.

Alex Ramos91 said:Why would anything written about Jesus in the Quran even matter? It was written centuries after he actually walked this earth!
And don't even get me started on how the Quran is objectively wrong about Christian doctrine. Like, it literally claims the Christian Trinity consists of the Father, the Son, and Mary 🤷

As for why Jesus had to die on the cross... check the link in my signature. I've got a post there that clears that right up for you.

Cheers,

Why would anything written about Jesus in the Quran even matter? I mean, it was written centuries after he actually walked this earth!

Think about it this way: God gave us direct information about Jesus in the Quran, whereas the Bible is essentially a collection of people's accounts. Even Luke admits he was just gathering stories! He spent his time listening to what others had to say and trying to verify their accuracy before writing everything down. When you look at it like that, you have to ask yourself how much truth is actually there when you're relying on human hearsay—especially since those stories were being passed around decades after Jesus ascended.
Everyone’s got an opinion. One person says this, another claims that, and someone else is out there peddling a third version. It’s up to you to sift through the noise and figure out what actually holds water. Honestly, look at how stories work—if I tell a tale today and people start retelling it over the next few decades, half the details are bound to shift. People will inevitably add their own little twists and flavors just to make it sound better. That's just human nature!

Plus, it’s been proven that the Quran actually gets Christian doctrine wrong. For instance, when it describes the Trinity as the Father, the Son, and... Mary 🤷

The Quran actually claims that you all believe in multiple gods—whether you realize it or not—and here’s the breakdown.

First off, the Quran states that we aren't a Trinity.

God says:

To all followers of the Book: don't lose your way! Stick to the facts when you talk about Allah. Jesus, the son of Mary, is simply a messenger of Allah—His Word, delivered through Mary, and a spirit from Him. So, keep your faith firm in Allah and His messengers! Don't go around saying, "It's the Trinity!" Stop it—you’ll feel much better! There is only one God, and praise be to Him! Does He really have a son? Everything in the heavens and everything on this American soil belongs to Him. God alone is all we need for protection.

Then you have Catholics who pray to Mary. From the perspective of the Quran, that’s basically giving God a partner. It puts her right up there on His level. Since Mary is deceased and can't actually hear you, calling out to her is like assigning her divine attributes. It’s like acting as if she can hear your prayers while you're sitting alone in your room. By doing that, you're automatically placing her alongside God by attributing divine qualities to a human.

The Quran tells us how God will examine Jesus on Judgment Day:

And when God says: "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you tell the people..." "Accept me and my mother as two gods alongside Allah.""Praise be to You! It wouldn't be right for me to claim things I have no authority to say. If I spoke out of turn, You already know. You know everything I know, but there’s a massive gap between my knowledge and Yours—You alone hold the keys to everything hidden. I only shared exactly what You commanded: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and their Lord!' While I was walking among them, I looked out for them just as You told me to, but now that You've taken my soul, You are the only one watching over them. You're the one in charge of everything. If You decide to discipline them, they are Your servants; if You choose to forgive, You are the Almighty and the most merciful."

And it doesn't stop there—you guys basically put your priests in God's seat.

God says:

"They take their scholars and monks as lords instead of Allah..." (Quran, 9/31).

Now you might wonder how that works. It's simple! You go to a priest to confess, right? And he tells you, "You're forgiven." But since you're asking for forgiveness from anyone other than God, you're essentially treating that person like God. Only God has the authority to wipe away sins. How can anyone believe a regular mortal can forgive sins? It's wild. I actually saw a movie once where a guy bursts into a church and finds the priest and his wife hooking up under the covers 🙄it happened somewhere down in South America. So, this same priest is supposed to come out and forgive your sins after playing around with someone else's wife under a blanket? 👍That's just top-tier irony right there.

Allah makes it crystal clear.

No one can guide those whom Allah has left in error.

Paul Kern12 said:The entire eighth chapter of Jeremiah was written as a direct indictment against the priests and those false prophets who existed prior to the Babylonian captivity. These specific verses aren't an attack on the Bible itself—rather, they target the deceptive prophets and the leaders who were leading the people astray. It essentially asks, "How can you possibly claim..."
"We claim to be wise—that we possess the Law of Yahweh!" Honestly, it seems as though a deceptive scribe has twisted that truth into a lie. The wise will find themselves disgraced, terrified, and ultimately caught in their own trap. Look at them—they have utterly disregarded Yahweh's word. And their wisdom? I suppose one has to wonder—what good can it possibly do them now? (Jeremiah 8:8-9)

Yes, you are correct that Jesus never sinned—though one could certainly say the same for a select few others, I suppose—but that is precisely why He came and went to the cross: to take upon Himself the sins of the world. Through His death, He assumed our sinfulness—specifically for those who believe in His sacrifice—and in exchange, He granted us His righteousness. However, to those who lack the Holy Spirit, this whole concept seems like sheer foolishness, which is likely why they try so hard to deny His sacrifice by any means necessary.

Jeremiah chapter 8 is basically a massive takedown of the priests and fake prophets right before the Babylonian captivity hit. These verses aren't attacking the Bible itself—they’re calling out the charlatans who led the people astray. It’s all about that blatant hypocrisy: "How can you possibly claim..."

You wouldn't believe the stuff I've seen. I’ve spotted hundreds of contradictions where one verse says one thing and the next says the exact opposite about the same situation. It’s glaringly obvious that someone went in and tinkered with the Bible texts. And it isn't just my opinion—God actually tells us in the Quran that the "sons of Israel" messed with the holy books, twisting the words, altering them, and even adding things while claiming they were from God.

That’s exactly why He came and died on the cross—to take the weight of the world's sins upon Himself. Through His death, He stepped in to shoulder our flaws and, in exchange, handed us His own righteousness. It's the ultimate trade!

Even the text you just put together goes against everything written in the Bible!

You’re saying He came to take on all the world's sins, but honestly, that just doesn't add up to me. It feels totally illogical. If He's carrying those sins, then what about this whole "original sin" concept? If you follow Jesus' teachings, He made it clear that children go straight to heaven. So, how can they possibly carry some inherited stain from Adam and Eve? If that's not what you mean, then what exactly are you getting at?
So, let's say I truly believe Jesus died for my sins, right? Does that mean I have a free pass to go wild? If I decide to kill someone in the name of God, rape a woman, snatch a wallet, beat someone up in an alley, or get high out of my mind—and then some guy looks at me like I'm a total lunatic and asks, "What is wrong with you? Are you insane?"—do I just shrug and tell him, "Don't be like that, man. You know Jesus died for our sins"? 😉It doesn't matter what we do right now because He’s going to gather them all up for us anyway!

Just ask your heart if this feels right.

He took our flaws upon Himself through His death—those of us who believe in His sacrifice—and in exchange, He handed us His righteousness!

It’s wild how you all love to turn things into some mystical mystery, complicating everything for no reason.

The only way this makes sense is if He came specifically to grant us His righteousness—to judge based on God's law, defining right from wrong so we can follow it to reach heaven. There's no need for sacrifices or the idea of a half-naked Jesus on a cross. It’s honestly strange how much you enjoy the image of Jesus being humiliated, half-naked and bleeding on a cross just to carry away your sins.

In the Quran, God teaches us that everyone is responsible for their own actions. Jesus has nothing to do with your sins.

You really shouldn't have gone there. It’s been made clear a thousand times already—this is clearly a forgery.

Look, even if we assume it's a fake, we still have what the Quran says about Jesus to deal with. Whether it's a forgery or not, I look at the Gospel of Barnabas simply as an explanation of what God intended.

They didn't actually kill or crucify him; it only appeared to them.

So, let's say the Gospel of Barnabas is a forgery—which I don't believe, by the way—we could still interpret it this way:

"It only appeared to them." Maybe they killed someone who looked just like him, or maybe God transformed another man to look exactly like Jesus. That's one way to read it!

Stop beating around the bush! It’s funny how you Muslims always try to lecture us about the Bible, twisting things until you're blue in the face just to make it look false.

.

The Bible itself basically calls itself out. Check this out:

Jeremiah 8:8 "They trust in their own wisdom and say, 'We have God's law!' But truly, the deceitful scribes have practiced deceit."

The reason neither Muhammad nor his followers understand God's word is because neither he nor you possess the Holy Spirit.

Oh, we understand it. Believe me, we understand it much better than you think. 👍

So you're trying to use logic, like...
And you're topping it all off with lies and half-truths.

These aren't lies at all—it's pure truth. I can prove everything I've said using the Bible itself. If I were feeding you lies, people would see right through them instantly. Lies never stay hidden for long. 😉

Both the Old Testament, starting from Genesis 3, and the New Testament state that Jesus must suffer.

Actually, they don't say that. They say the exact opposite.

"If someone commits a sin deserving death and is hanged on a tree, do not leave his body on the tree overnight; bury him that same day, for anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse." >

If they had actually crucified Jesus, he would be a false prophet according to this: "If someone commits a sin deserving death and is hanged on a tree..." We all know Jesus never sinned—that's what we Muslims believe, that he was free from all sin. Based on this text, it would imply Jesus is under God's curse, which is obviously far from the truth.

That is described in all four Gospels. Failing to see that in the Bible is either a sign of massive spiritual blindness or devilish disbelief.

Oh, I see it just fine. I see it very clearly.

Well, you choose which side you fall on.
You clearly have no clue who Jesus is, why he came, or where he is now.

God clearly defined Jesus' purpose: he came to lead the people of Israel back to the right path, to help them shun sin, and to follow him so they could be saved on Judgment Day.

All you guys do is stir the pot. It’s nothing but pure provocation. Honestly, it's just pathetic.

I’m not trying to pick a fight here. I’m just looking at the facts and using logic to dismantle these claims. Honestly, I could use the Bible alone to prove that Jesus never actually died or was crucified on a cross. If you can't see that, well, that’s a whole different conversation. 😉

Show me where in the Bible it says Judah died on the cross instead of Jesus. If you can actually pull that off, I’m converting to Islam right this second!

We need to look at this from every possible angle if we want to clear the air. For us Muslims, the Quran acts like a high-tech scanner or a built-in error detector for the Bible. It’s essentially the direct manual sent by God to correct misconceptions. We're here to give you Christian folks a heads-up: God isn't on board with calling Jesus God or His Son, and the whole Trinity concept just doesn't sit right with Him.

So, how would we actually know if someone else was crucified instead of Jesus?

God says in the Quran:

God says:

Even their own words give it away: “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, God's messenger!” It wasn't even about him being killed or nailed to a cross—it was all just a massive misunderstanding!The skeptics were basically just guessing at this point. They didn't have any real facts to lean on—just pure speculation. It’s a certainty, though: they definitely weren't the ones who killed him.The Quran.

This is the absolute key to cracking the problem!


He wasn't even killed or put on a cross! It’s already happened to them..

How did that work out? If we're just looking at the facts without jumping to any other conclusions, you could argue that some other guy ended up on the cross instead because he was a dead ringer for Jesus.

You’re going to get a detailed answer straight from the Gospel you Christians tend to ignore—the Gospel of Barnabas. Let's dive in and see exactly what it says about this situation!

Judah slips into the room ahead of everyone else, right where Jesus was just lifted up. Meanwhile, the disciples are all fast asleep. God worked such wonders that Judah was transformed in both speech and appearance to look just like Jesus. It was so convincing that we actually believed he was Jesus!He woke us up and immediately started asking where the boss was. We were totally blindsided! We just looked at him and said, "Wait, you're the one in charge here! Did you seriously forget about us already?"
A grin spreads across his face as he says, "Are you guys out of your minds? Don't you realize I'm Judas Iscariot!"
While he was still mid-sentence, the soldiers stormed in and grabbed Judah, because honestly, the guy looked just like Jesus.
We heard what Judah was saying, saw that massive crowd of soldiers, and honestly? We bolted like crazy.
So, John wakes up wrapped in linen, breaks free, and bolts! When the guards tried to grab him by those burial cloths, he just ditched them and ran for it. It’s like a movie scene! Honestly, God heard Jesus' prayer and pulled that one man out of the fire. Pure miracle!

.

Here’s a look at that wild mystery surrounding the cross.

"My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?" That's what he cried out.

From the Gospel of Barnabas.

They dragged him up to Calvary—that hill where they typically hang criminals—and crucified him completely naked just to make sure he was as humiliated as possible.
Judah does nothing but shout: ""God, why have you abandoned me?", since a criminal got away while I die an innocent death?
Seriously, I'm telling you, Judas's voice and presence were such a dead ringer for Jesus that his own followers and believers were absolutely convinced he was him....

This Gospel is perfectly consistent. Compare that to the Bible, which is riddled with contradictions. Who are we supposed to trust—a Bible full of errors or the Gospel of Barnabas, which flows without any clashes?

The Bible itself is packed with inconsistencies regarding the crucifixion of Jesus—enough to make anyone second-guess everything.

So, who actually carried the cross? Was it Simon or Jesus himself?

"As they were coming out, they seized a man from Cyrene named Simon and forced him to carry the cross." Matthew 27

versus

"Jesus carried his own cross and went out to the place called Golgotha." John 19

And what about the wine they gave him? What was it mixed with?

"They offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it." Mark 15

versus

"They offered him wine mixed with gall. He tasted it, but he wouldn't drink it."

What time was he crucified?

"At nine in the morning, they crucified him." Matthew 27

versus

"It was around three in the afternoon, during the preparation for the Passover, when he said to the Jews, 'Here is your king!'" John 18

"And they shouted, 'Crucify him! Crucify him!' Pilate asked, 'Shall I crucify your king?'" John 18

Who should we believe? The Bible we have today, which is full of mistakes even concerning the crucifixion, or the Gospel of Barnabas, which doesn't have these issues—especially since the Quran supports the Gospel of Barnabas too.

I think we've finally cleared up exactly how the crucifixion went down.

Mainly because He truly rose from the dead.

They didn't actually kill Jesus on the cross. They crucified Judah instead! God made him look just like Jesus because of his betrayal, so he was the one on the cross crying out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" It makes zero sense for Jesus to say that.
Second, Jesus asked God to save him from death, and his prayer was answered. If his prayer was heard, how could he have died? That's how it's written in the Bible.

Third, when Jesus appeared later, he was physically there with his disciples. But Jesus says those who die become like angels—basically without a physical body. Since he was right there in the flesh with them, how could he have died on the cross??? The logic just isn't there.

Jesus and all of us will experience the resurrection after we die when Judgment Day arrives. At that point, God will reconstruct our bodies and return our souls. We’ll rise from our graves when Judgment Day hits because we’ll be standing before God. Think of death as a change of state. It's like a baby being born—it's a total shift. Or imagine twins in a womb; if one is born first, the other might seem "lost" to that world, but really, they are transitioning to a new existence. That's us moving from death into a new world where we exist as both body and soul.

If it weren't true, He wouldn't have proven He is God, and so many martyrs wouldn't have died for Him. The resurrection is the ultimate proof.

There are so many tangled threads and logical holes in that one little sentence that I'd need a whole day just to untangle them all.

So, the proof that He is God is that He died? A God who dies? 🙄
And you're ignoring everything else that points the other way. Let me ask you something:

"Can you even imagine a God who created the entire universe sitting in diapers while his mom wipes his butt just because he's too weak?" 🙄

I could list a ton of verses from the Bible right here that support your claim that Jesus is God.

Don't worry about me. Just focus on yourself....

Everyone carries their own cross.

Honestly, if I had to carry the weight of the whole internet on my shoulders,😁 I would have lost my mind by now.

I've got enough on my plate worrying about my own soul on Judgment Day without trying to manage everyone else's business too.🙄

There’s just no logic in saying God doesn't judge people based on their actions, but instead picks favorites based on which religion they belong to...

What you guys are doing is basically a violation of the soul.

Look, if you aren't part of His religion, you have to understand that religion means a way of life—it's your entire path. If you aren't walking the specific road that Bob laid out for you, how can you honestly expect to make it to heaven?