Posts by Sandra Barrett4

Robert Gomez6 said:Pardon, I meant an EXTRA Y chromosome...

Women can't be criminals, essentially, since we don't have a Y chromosome at all.

Chloe Cook2 said:The thread’s been dead for two months now, I know. But I feel like I should say something, I guess.

Back in my teenage years—not that I want to sound old, I guess—I was convinced that every single gender difference, aside from the obvious biological stuff, was just socially imposed. I used to think that if we could somehow convince everyone around a newborn that they were actually a different gender, they’d grow up with that identity. Maybe. Just an old thought.

I guess you learn a few things as you get older. It isn't all black and white. There are biological differences, maybe driven by hormones, though there’s certainly a social element too. If you handed people an essay to grade and didn't tell them the author's gender, they’d probably give a higher score if they thought a man wrote it. Does that mean men are more competent? Not necessarily. It just means people tend to value their input more, regardless of the actual quality. Why that is, though... well, that's a different question entirely. It's probably not just about social conditioning.

The differences mentioned earlier... most of them seem legitimate, I guess. Men tend to lean more toward risk-taking, aggression, and physical exertion, while women often show more empathy. You could probably look at the experiences of transgender people on hormone therapy to see that. It seems many trans men report an increase in libido, quicker tempers, and finding it harder to cry—where they might have wept before, now they just get frustrated. They also deal with higher energy levels, needing more sleep, eating more, exercising more, building muscle faster, spontaneous erections, and constant sexual thoughts. On the flip side, trans women taking estrogen often report feeling softer or calmer, with a decreased sex drive. To me, it suggests these traits are largely driven by hormones rather than being some kind of social construct. Maybe.

Maybe because everything is so tangled up—and since most of these gaps seem to be driven by biology rather than just how we're raised—the whole concept of gender feels unnecessary. Even for trans or gay people, I guess.

If I’m transgender, then I guess it just means I was born one sex, but I feel like that's wrong. Being in that body feels unnatural, I suppose. Transitioning makes things align, so everything is fine. I don't really see it as having one sex and another gender... no. It's more like a person has one biological sex and a different identity—they see themselves as one thing, even if their physical reality says otherwise. Maybe.

I suppose sexual orientation isn't about having one identity separate from gender. It’s more like they coexist, much like it does for heterosexual people. It’s just that certain aspects might deviate from the majority norm. For instance, if most men happen to love sports, it doesn't mean a man who isn't interested in athletics has some sort of identity disorder. Similarly, just because most men are attracted to women, it doesn't follow that a man attracted to other men has an identity issue. Most traits associated with a specific gender are just individual facets. I guess you don't need to check every single box to belong to a category.

I suppose if someone is born male and is perfectly content with their body, they could be a ballet dancer, walk with more grace, enjoy things like soaps and lotions, or grab coffee with girlfriends to gossip about clothes and guys. It doesn't necessarily mean they have a female identity; they might still see themselves as a man, just... a less conventional one. I guess the same logic applies the other way, too. Someone born female might want a more masculine physique and live life as a man, even if they don't fit the standard mold. Nothing is ever truly black and white, I guess.

There’s a difference between how we perceive our own bodies and how well we fit into typical masculine or feminine stereotypes. I suppose the first part defines gender identity, while the second is just personality. Personally, regarding those traits, I feel like I sit somewhere in the middle. I have plenty of traditionally masculine traits, and plenty of feminine ones—maybe leaning slightly more toward the former. But that doesn't change my gender identity. I am male, regardless of those characteristics. Or regardless of which body I was born into, I guess.

And another thing... queer theory often distinguishes between transsexuality and transgenderism. One relates to sex, the other to gender. Honestly, I think if we truly embraced gender and transgender identity, then anyone with even one trait typically associated with the opposite sex could be considered transgender.

On the other hand, transsexuality seems to point toward a disconnect with one's own body. A need to change that body to match the opposite sex. In my view, once that transition happens, the person HAS changed their sex, and their identity and sex are finally aligned. So, I suppose that is a functional "cure" for transsexuality.

Because, quite often, if someone born male identifies as female—unless they were already built like a man from the start—after hormone therapy and the necessary surgeries, nobody would be able to tell they aren't a woman, unless they knew the person's history. Apparently, these procedures are so effective when done by top-tier surgeons that even a gynecologist might not see a difference between a cisgender vagina and one created through surgery.

The results for the penis aren't always as seamless, I suppose, but the hormonal impact is significant. Many people born male, even after hormone therapy, retain enough masculine physical traits that people can easily judge their birth sex. It seems to work differently for those born female. If you see a trans man in shorts, most people wouldn't be able to tell he wasn't born male. Even with prosthetics, or just being lucky with height and high-quality surgery, seeing them naked wouldn't necessarily seem "strange."

So, try telling me that person is still their original sex. All the physical traits and the internal chemistry shift to align with the new sex. I don't see what that has to do with the old sex, except maybe chromosomes, I guess.

So men are bad and women are good (in general)—that's your point. Fine, I like it.

Hannah White2 said:So, what's the actual difference between those two things?

I don't know; I see no difference.

Hannah White2 said:Are we even talking about biological sex here, or are we diving into this whole "gender identity" thing?

gender identity

Hannah White2 said:Does gender identity even exist in the animal kingdom? 😕

No. Animals lack reasoning. Are you suggesting gender identity isn't a product of thought, will, or planning, but rather something purely unconscious and instinctive?

vividorca9 said:Gender roles shift constantly. These days, the lines are getting blurrier by the second, which makes talking about them a bit of a headache. But, if we look at some of those old-school stereotypes that were huge back in the day—say, leading up to the 90s—we get stuff like this:

-A real man doesn't cry.
-A real man is always rock solid.
-A real man shouldn't deal with erectile dysfunction when there's a woman right in front of him looking to get intimate.
-A real man doesn't wear skirts.
-A real man doesn't have long hair (though I guess the hippies kind of broke that one down). 🤣
-A real man loves football or some other kind of sport.
-Poets and intellectuals aren't "real men"—they're just physical types.

And so on.

In its simplest terms, a gender role is just how successfully someone follows social imperatives—basically, our collective stereotypes about how men or women "should" act. It’s an incredibly relative concept, but that doesn't mean it isn't real. 🤷
Male gender roles are essentially what the guys over at MK have been making fun of quite effectively (if I may say so myself) for a long time now. 😍

Yes, this is true. Men are biologically built to be physically stronger, which means they handle the heavy labor, while women take on creative, managerial, and leadership roles. However, history hasn't exactly respected those latter roles.

Drew Lee7 said:To put it simply, yeah, I agree. Sexual instinct is at the core of gender identity, and that’s innate. It’s just like how physical sex characteristics are pretty much set in stone on average. Gender theory claims that gender is just a byproduct of culture. But if you ask me, culture is often just a result of innate male and female traits, biology, and stuff like that. Culture can change the framework, sure, but it can’t change the essence. If a man has the biological potential to father thousands of kids, while a woman is capped at maybe 10 or 20, that fact is going to influence male and female behavior somehow. Obviously, culture adds a lot of variables, but certain fundamental values remain. Take this one, for example. And don't even get me started on hormone levels...

Are you kidding me right now? 🤣

So, what exactly are these "gender" roles that aren't tied to sex? Let's hear it...

So the logical conclusion is that men can sleep around without any social consequences or penalties, whereas women aren't allowed to?

Drew Lee7 said:To put it simply, yeah, I agree. Sexual instinct is at the core of gender identity, and that’s innate. It’s just like how physical sex characteristics are pretty much set in stone on average. Gender theory claims that gender is just a byproduct of culture. But if you ask me, culture is often just a result of innate male and female traits, biology, and stuff like that. Culture can change the framework, sure, but it can’t change the essence. If a man has the biological potential to father thousands of kids, while a woman is capped at maybe 10 or 20, that fact is going to influence male and female behavior somehow. Obviously, culture adds a lot of variables, but certain fundamental values remain. Take this one, for example. And don't even get me started on hormone levels...

Are you kidding me right now? 🤣

So, what exactly are these "gender" roles that aren't tied to sex? Let's hear it...

social privileges throughout history.

Drew Lee7 said:Hahaha... so that’s not an issue now?! Like, what exactly is it then if not one massive, glaring problem? Everyone knows damn well what linguistic gender actually is. Language isn't some ball of dough that people can just knead and reshape whenever they feel like it. But honestly, what you just wrote is exactly what I’ve been saying this whole time: claiming there's a distinction between gender and sex is nothing more than a fantasy cooked up by feminist, queer, and so-called gender theorists on the principle of: "Whatever makes them feel good, makes them feel good."

I couldn't agree more. Honestly, if someone can't even wrap their head around basic reading comprehension, why bother trying to have a deep conversation with them? It's just a waste of breath.

For crying out loud, can you actually step outside that tiny little box of textbook definitions and jargon for once? Honestly, I think this whole obsession with separating gender from sex is just pure nonsense. It’s all part of this manufactured "gender theory" that feels completely made up to me. Why do we even need to overcomplicate things like this? So, people love to talk about how social roles are built around this concept they call "gender," but honestly, I don't buy that distinction for a second. To me, what they’re labeling as gender is nothing more than just gender identity. Is that really so hard to wrap your head around? 🤷 Look, just because two people share the same biological sex doesn't mean they have to share the same gender identity. It’s common sense, really. I mean, obviously, a straight guy and a gay guy aren't going to have the exact same identity—they don't see themselves the same way, and let's be real, neither does the rest of the world. It's not that complicated.

So, we finally get to the real question: why do they insist on calling it "gender" instead of just a part of their identity (you know, the minority version)? According to this whole gender theory nonsense, biological sex doesn't actually mean a damn thing—it’s just some physical shell, while "gender" is everything. And since they claim gender is a social construct, then by their own logic, *everything* is a social construct. To them, being a "man" or a "woman" is entirely made up by society. That’s how they justify the idea that we’re somehow "forcing" boys to become men and girls to become women through different upbringing styles—like giving girls dolls and dresses while pushing motherhood, and giving boys cars and tech. This grand "gender theory" claims that's exactly how the concept of gender is constructed. But if you ask me? They’re just talking out of their asses because they can't handle their own sexual identity when compared to the majority. Half the time, these people just have deep-seated issues with themselves. I mean, if some young woman decides that motherhood is this evil social construct being shoved down her throat by some imaginary patriarchy, then honey, you've got some serious personal problems to work through.

P.S. I asked you to give me the actual, original Freudian quote, not whatever some feminist thinks he meant. You really need to get a clue here: if I told you I don't buy into gender theory, then I truly couldn't care less what someone who pushes that exact agenda has to say about it. I already know their arguments inside and out. Besides, even in your interpretation of Freudian thought, there isn't a single thing you're saying that I haven't already pointed out. So, here’s my advice: maybe try reading a little slower next time.

1. There is a difference between sex and gender roles. Gender identity is innate and biologically determined.
2. Everything is a social construct, except for biological facts.
3. Female sex is determined by physical characteristics, just like male sex.
4. There is a gender gap in upbringing, which society often condemns if ignored. For example, if a woman is a great mechanic or engineer, people—mostly other women—tend to look down on her or judge her for how she managed to pull that off... given that she's a woman.
5. Motherhood exists independently of the patriarchy. The difference is that the patriarchy views women solely through the lens of being mothers; they imply that if you don't have at least five kids, you aren't a "real" woman, imposing the image of motherhood as a woman's only purpose for existing.

Keith Thomas21 said:Nothing could ever convince me that I could just wake up one morning, decide I want to be a man, and go undergo surgery to have my breasts removed. No matter how hard I’ve tried to adopt a more masculine way of thinking or carry myself, it simply doesn't come naturally to me. I truly believe this is something innate—a primal, biological drive. Just as we deal with various congenital conditions at birth, I view gender identity disorder as another such biological reality.
It stands to reason that if a male child feels a sense of masculinity, he will naturally mirror the masculine behaviors he observes in his environment, even if those men happen to wear bras in that specific social circle. Conversely, if a child does not feel masculine, they will instinctively imitate whatever feminine behavior is present around them.

1. These are biological facts that cannot be changed. Naturally, if you feel sexual attraction toward men, that is innate, and of course, you can't force yourself to think like a man or find women attractive.
2. From the surroundings refers to gender roles.
3. That is nonsense.

Keith Thomas21 said:It is my firm belief that gender identity is fundamentally biological. I recall watching a documentary where researchers performed brain scans on women, men, and trans individuals, and the findings were striking: the neurological patterns in trans people showed significantly more overlap with female brains than male ones.
I have seen evidence of this play out in my own life as well.
Take my friend, for example. She had always envisioned herself having a daughter. As fate would have it, she gave birth to a boy instead. However, from the very beginning, she insisted on surrounding him with things traditionally associated with girls—toys, clothing in "feminine" colors, and so on. Yet, nature has its own way of asserting itself; despite those early influences, he grew up to be a quintessential American man. Even if his first year was filled with dolls and toy doctors, today he is a young man whose entire world revolves around cars, hunting rifles, and football.

1. None of what was listed has anything to do with gender identity.
2. Male gender roles aren't biological; they are likely picked up from the environment rather than being caused by parents.

Rachel Stewart36 said:I wouldn't be so quick to make sweeping claims like that. Looking at people and the world around me, I haven't really seen massive variations in those "facts" based on gender. It feels more like certain groups just have different "modes." Let me complicate things a bit—I'm male (biologically speaking), identify as a man, and I'm straight, yet my default mode is pretty "feminine"—non-aggressive, passive, indirect, and super focused on emotional harmony. That said, I switch to the "male" mode whenever it makes sense—you know, situational awareness. So, how do you explain my passivity given my testosterone levels (which are pretty obvious from my physique)? I think things are a little more nuanced than what you're suggesting. But hey, just my two cents. 😉

maybe it's because a person isn't just driven by hormones; they also have intellect, willpower, and plenty of other unknown factors at play.