Posts by Jessica Howard5

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Fine, if you go to a steakhouse and the meal is garbage, you blame the chef. But if a kid grows up without a shred of work ethic or basic manners, I suppose you'll just point the finger at the teacher?

Can you try being reasonable instead of getting so defensive? We are discussing whether education and upbringing are subjects that can be studied and evaluated. Are you honestly suggesting the teacher carries the entire burden for a child's development?

Was I being unclear in my last post? Is there anything confusing about where I stand?

Let me be crystal clear: nobody in the school system is responsible for raising my kids (even though the Elementary School Act explicitly says they are). They don't have to teach them basic manners, how to say please or thank you, or how to stop interrupting. I'm talking about *my* child here. But let's step back and look at the big picture of the American education system and face reality. My sincere apologies to anyone caught up in this debate—professionals or otherwise. Seriously, can someone actually give me a realistic take on what's happening in our schools? I'm not looking for a black-and-white debate. I want your actual opinions and concrete solutions to these specific issues. Or fine, let's flip it: someone write a post about everything that's working great in schools, and we can just sit around praising those things. I'm only interested in critical perspectives and actual ways to fix things.

urbantinker8 said:...who are essentially acting out because public schools are failing them... 🤦

I really don't have the heart to keep arguing here with people whose actual professions I know nothing about, let alone whether they have any real-world experience in education or child development, other than perhaps having sat in a classroom themselves a lifetime ago or maybe having kids who happen to be in school right now.
I wouldn't dream of telling a friend who's a dentist how she should go about fixing teeth since I don't know the first thing about dentistry. I certainly wouldn't lecture a friend who works as a judge about legal proceedings, mostly because I'm completely out of my depth there.
So, I suppose...☕
Jessica Howard5 actually opened up this discussion in a way that was both sensible and polite, even though it’s clearly a total Pandora's box, but it seems some people here are taking things entirely the wrong way.

👋

Look, all this arguing is supposed to be about trying to understand one another. We’re parents who care about how the system works. And honestly, I'm starting to think it doesn't work. As for everyone's credentials on this forum—I have a degree in economics. That doesn't mean I went to school to be a parent. There’s no such thing. I'm not a dentist, a lawyer, or an educator, so I won't debate you on technical professional levels. But sorry, folks, I am a parent of three. School is mandatory; they have to go. I'm the parent who taught my kids basic manners and instilled in them what their rights and responsibilities are. I taught them to respect authority while explaining *why* that matters. I send my kids to that school with full trust (because legally I have to, though sometimes I'd rather not), yet that school can't protect my kid from all the nonsense. Here's a quick list of that nonsense:
- total chaos with scheduling
- chaos during recess
- incompetent teachers (referring to the guys mentioned in previous posts, won't repeat myself)
- bullying from other students, and even from teachers
- a subpar curriculum
- terrible textbooks

To be clear, I don't think schools are entirely black and white; they aren't. Most kids still head to school happily. Not to mention how much standards and criteria have ramped up (specifically regarding knowledge retention) and the increasing pressure on kids. In 8th grade, it's all "where are you going, what will you do, what's your major?" High school starts at 1st grade—state exams, strict criteria... Then you educators force these standards on them—one way fails, so you push external evaluations, panic sets in, and then more pressure on the kids. It feels like our schools are stuck in the 19th century while we're living in the 21st. And please, don't tell me elementary kids need to learn complex interest rates; even my colleagues in finance struggle with that, let alone a 14-year-old.
Here's an example of a literature question from a standardized test: "What caused Judith's husband to die?" Now, you tell me, is that normal?

Of course, this matters to me as a parent, even though I'm a layman when it comes to the school system and its inner workings. But tell me, you professionals: what are you actually doing about it? What are you experts doing to change the things that are broken? The professors at the university in Chicago—who teach at the college but haven't actually managed a classroom or held a single parent-teacher conference in their lives—their assistants are just bright kids who stayed in academia right after graduation (same goes for economics and everything else). Please, just be real, be self-critical, and tell me exactly what you, as educators, are doing to fix the system.

Nobody’s actually broken down the specific procedure from that example mentioned a few posts back. Look, I’m just a layman, but I know enough about how this works.
Here's the deal: you've got warnings from a homeroom teacher, warnings from the faculty board, warnings from the principal before expulsion, and then finally, expulsion itself. Maybe my terminology isn't textbook perfect, but that's the gist. A warning can be proposed by a homeroom teacher, any instructor, or the principal. Whoever makes the proposal has to put it in writing with a justification. Then, a three-person committee is formed to review the case, call the parents in, and notify them of the proposed warning. At that point, parents have the right to file a written appeal. If they aren't happy with the outcome of that appeal, they can formally request an inspection arbitration. Once all those steps are cleared—and trust me, it’s a massive bureaucratic headache—the decision is final and set in stone. We've seen cases where kids were kicked out and sent to a different school, though sometimes they get picked up by others. Bottom line: the procedures exist, the protocols are there, and the laws and authorities are clearly defined. But you people constantly find excuses for why you "can't" or "aren't allowed" to act, or how you're too afraid of drunks and PTSD-sufferers.
What about us parents and our kids (who are more or less normal) just asking you to do your jobs correctly? Or when you don't do the job right, are we supposed to just blink and take it? Who do you think you are? Noble educators? A private little sect? Untouchable? Who are we, and what profession do we come from, to give us the right to criticize you? Imagine that attitude. My boss owns a company and he’s a machinist by trade—a damn good expert at working with materials—but he doesn't know a single thing about economics. However, he knows exactly what my work affects, and he sure as hell knows when I screw something up because it hits him right in the wallet.

So, what's the issue when we laypeople debate these problems and demand actual stances and facts from you experts? Instead, all we get is a mountain of: "I'm not here to raise your kids," "I can't," "The law won't let me," "That's just how the system works," "We are God's gift to society and we're always right while everyone else is wrong."

urbantinker8 said:I find it somewhat fascinating, I suppose, how the conclusion always seems to be that none of us learned a single useful thing in college, whether we're talking about our actual subject matter or the pedagogical side of teaching.🙄
We act like our specific subject is the only thing that matters, yet we struggle with lesson planning, don't work particularly hard, spend more time relaxing than prepping, demand impossible things from students, have no clue how to run a classroom, can't talk to kids effectively, and apparently don't know how to handle parents either. It’s almost as if we’re entirely unqualified for the jobs we hold.
But then again, if we're all so incompetent, where are all those "seasoned experts" hiding??😕
If you're all such master educators, why aren't you actually working in the school system trying to fix the educational framework instead of just typing away on internet forums?🤷

Fine, so what's your role here as an educator? What are you actually doing about it? What are your colleagues doing? Am I generalizing? Maybe. But can you honestly tell me I'm wrong? Believe me, only a minority of you are like this, but it's true. A huge chunk of teachers dream of becoming principals. You ditch teaching to worry about toilet paper supplies and office equipment. If you happen to have a decent counselor on staff, even better. Most of them have no idea what they're getting into, other than a bigger paycheck and supposedly "less work"—that principal title. Any school lucky enough to have a real principal—someone who knows the laws, understands their authority, knows how to apply it, and actually wants to make the system work—is winning. Someone who has a solid team of counselors, psychologists, and specialists. That team should lead the school, while you teachers focus on teaching and flagging issues when they arise. That is how a school works; it's more than just delivering a lecture. Look, I'm not a principal or a specialist, but I know a little bit about how the system is supposed to function. It baffles me that you all seem to know it too, yet you avoid it at all costs. Why? So nobody yells at you? So you don't have to deal with a district inspection? So that besides teaching and grading tests, you don't have to perform the actual duties required of you? Isn't that the reality? And I don't need to be an expert to see it; I see it every day just by sending my kid to school.

Kate Cox2 said:We recently dealt with a situation involving an eighth grader—he physically attacked another student, which sparked a full-blown fight. It wasn't an isolated incident; it was just the breaking point after a long string of disruptive behavior, including verbal abuse, arguing with teachers and peers, constant interruptions during lessons, and bullying younger kids.

He was issued a formal reprimand...

The very next day, the boy's father storms into the school. He starts threatening the homeroom teachers, barges into the Principal's office to intimidate her, and then goes as far as filing a lawsuit against the school.

I find myself wondering: where does this aggressive behavior stem from? Where does this level of sheer insolence come from, especially when it’s been going on for years? To me, the answer seems painfully obvious... one can clearly see where the child picked up such an attitude and these behavioral patterns.

That was frupy's point—you could organize five hundred different school projects focused on non-violence, tolerance, and cooperation, and you could talk to these students until you're blue in the face, but if the child returns to a home environment that actively encourages this kind of aggression, the efforts are essentially neutralized.

And what is the end result? Nothing. That student continues to bully his classmates, and the school is left powerless. A paper reprimand might as well be nothing more than last year's snow because we simply don't have the legal authority to take more concrete action.

On the flip side, you have those students who mess up, but they have parents at home who are self-aware enough to realize their child is in the wrong and are willing to work on teaching them appropriate behavior. In those cases—every project, every conversation, and all that hard work you put in actually feels meaningful.

Yeah. Parents are responsible for their kids' behavior. That much is true. But it feels to me like you people in education are increasingly taking the path of least resistance. Why? Because you're afraid of the fallout, afraid of the district inspectors. Why be afraid if you have the facts on your side? Why be afraid if the law is on your side? What happened? Some Martin Luther King Jr. type or a drunk shows up and starts yelling at you, and you're just standing there helpless? There is such a thing as a formal disciplinary record. As a teacher, you need to document it and justify it with solid arguments. A three-person committee should decide on these matters, and sure, a parent has the right to appeal. They have the right to call the board. So why resist the process? That's what the work should be about. That’s the core issue. Part of the problem is that nobody taught you this in college—nobody taught you how to actually be a homeroom teacher, what to do during advisory periods, let alone how to approach a specific problem or how to handle a parent. Some of you start the conversation with "I called you here to tell you your child is a problem..." Try instead: "I invited you here so we could work together to find a solution for certain issues regarding your child's learning and behavior." Or, "This happened, and I'm asking for your help so we can fix it together." Isn't that approach better? And you should do it the moment you detect the issue, not when everything has already gone to hell. Try using that approach, and even the aggressive ones will run out of ammunition for their outbursts.

Ugh, I’m not going to quote everyone here. But look, we've basically reached a conclusion—or at least, that's my layman's take: just shut up and don't rock the boat. Someone high up in the government sets the rules, just like everything else in this country. The workers in the system follow those rules, and that's why we're stuck where we are.
So, when people compare education to things like the economy or taxes and gas prices—and then someone suggests changing the school system—I’m honestly stunned. I don't get it, and frankly, it scares me.
We live in the 21st century, yet our education system feels stuck in the 19th. That’s how it looks to me. Kids are being fed a mountain of useless trivia they won't need in the real world; they pass the test, memorize the facts, and promptly forget everything. Why does nobody actually look at the root of the problem? On one hand, you have teachers who finished their training years ago. Of course, every single one of them thinks their subject is the most important thing in the world. But there's the question of *how* they actually teach and what methods they use in the classroom. There are all kinds of teachers. Some are engaging lecturers and great educators; others, honestly, are not. But almost all of them act like their specific subject is absolutely vital.
On the other hand, someone up in Washington, D.C. mandates a specific curriculum for every single subject, and these teachers are forced to follow it. These same teachers attend seminars and workshops before the curriculum is even set. Did anyone actually stand up during those seminars—which usually happen during some retreat out West for a few days—and say, "Hey, this part works, but this part sucks"? Or is that time just wasted? Most of the time, it’s just checking a box. They listen to the presenters, and that's it. Someone else writes the plan, and I'm just supposed to execute it. It feels like if I were planning a road trip from Indianapolis to Washington, D.C., and someone decided we had to drive through Pittsburgh just because it adds a little mileage and offers a "nice view" of another state. And if someone else is driving me, I don't care how long it takes, but if the boss says we're going through Pittsburgh, I just sit there and drive.
I can't wrap my head around why there's zero political will in this country for a deep, structural reform of education. There's no drive to pass clear, workable laws that would make school a better environment for both students and teachers. If we aren't smart enough to come up with reforms ourselves, let's at least do the work to study systems that actually function elsewhere in the world and apply them here. Maybe that's a pipe dream, or maybe it's reality. Or maybe it'll take another hundred years before someone remembers to do something, but by then, it'll be too late and everything will be gone down the drain.
Sorry, I want to apologize to all the educators out there if I offended you. I'm sorry that I don't trust the system, or that I lack faith in your ability to fix these issues, or that I don't have the patience to see things changed immediately. I guess I was walking through this blindly and didn't realize the hurdles you face while trying to teach and raise kids. Please accept my deepest apologies, but I'm making it my mission to speak up about these problems. I refuse to stay quiet or ignore them. So, go ahead and solve these problems however you can, within your authority and the law. Sorry again!!!!

Paul Wilson72 said:I honestly believe most parents who barely interact with the school—only checking in when things go sideways—rely on coffee shop gossip rather than actual facts. They really need to rethink how they view both the educational system and their own kids' roles within it. Since these parents act like experts on how to handle discipline, how to "collaborate" during class, or how to be the perfect "friend" to their child, maybe it’s time for a reality check. I think a "Parent-Teacher Day" program would be an eye-opener. Let them step in for a day, a week, or even longer to demonstrate those "exceptional skills." But there’s one catch: they shouldn't get a class they already know or have influenced. If we gave them a group of students they haven't already "trained," they’d basically just be a substitute teacher. Then we’d see how much they actually know... ☕

Interesting theory. 🤣 But what would that actually prove? That parents who act like experts over coffee would be totally lost if you actually put them in front of a chalkboard? Of course they would. They aren't trained educators. Most of them would fail miserably. So what, we're just supposed to stay quiet? Bite our tongues while kids struggle through a broken system and let the school take the fall for everything?
What happens when an individual teacher fails? What happens when the school administration fails to solve a problem? What happens when parents fail at home, and then the school fails too? Should the rest of us just sit there and suffer in silence while the kids deal with the fallout? I don't get why teachers can't handle even the slightest criticism. Why is it such a massive deal to say the education system isn't working? Even the teachers themselves see it's failing; they talk about it constantly, yet they do absolutely nothing to change it. 🙂

Susan James said:But what does "cooperation" actually look like to you or the teachers? How exactly would a cooperative parent change the vibe in the classroom? In what way would that actually make your job easier?
Has anyone here actually dealt with a supportive parent who managed to turn things around in class? What did that process look like for you? 🙂

I’m interested too, but let me give you my take based on experience. I show up to conferences regularly—every other week, twice a month. I know most parents only care about grades, but I want to know how my kids are acting in class and how they get along with their peers. Grades come second; I only bring up excuses if something actually needs justifying. If a teacher tells me my kid is restless, disrupting the lesson, talking over people, or having beef with other students... then I step in. That's when I work on correcting the behavior. To me, that's what parent-school cooperation looks like. And I expect the same from the school—that they actually address and correct my child's behavior while they're on campus.
This seems to be aimed at the parents (presumably) who don't bother doing that. I know plenty of kids who are straight-A geniuses but act like total disasters during class or in the halls. Most of their parents couldn't care less because the grades are fine, and they just don't give a damn about anything else. That's the problem, in my opinion.

urbantinker8 said:Not quite.
On paper, we have certain authorities, but institutions tend to get very quiet when you're dealing with someone suffering from severe PTSD, a notorious criminal, or some local big shot, and so on.
The buck gets passed from one office to another, and you never see any real results.
So, I guess the most accurate way to put it would be: we have some authority, but it feels like we don't have any at all.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of that. Why the hell do directors even take jobs they're clearly afraid of? I know a director in Indianapolis who isn't intimidated by anything. The guy was in the National Guard—they served together—he’s an expert diver, absolute beast of a man. I don't have an issue with those kinds of authorities either. For me, it's like this: tycoons and criminals don't faze me. At PTA meetings, I look parents right in the eye and tell them exactly what I think, though unfortunately, I get very little support from the other parents. Everyone acts brave before the meeting starts—all smart people, "we need this," "we need that"—but try actually saying it. When I finally speak up, and the teacher or the principal asks if anyone else agrees, everyone suddenly finds something very interesting to look at on the floor or out the window.
That's just how we handle authority. Sadly, it's just the way it is.

urbantinker8 said:I'm not quite sure why you aren't actually reading what people are saying here.
I guess all the effort in the world won't matter if the parents refuse to work with us.
If the parents of even one—and let's be honest, there are way too many—troublemaker decide they don't want to cooperate, the whole classroom atmosphere can just fall apart.
Believe me, this idea that looking after these kids isn't our responsibility is just an empty stereotype, and it seems like maybe you've fallen for it too.

Sorry frupy, but those stereotypes mostly come from the "enlightened" types, including some folks on this very forum. Just skim a few threads and you'll see what I mean. Again, they're probably the minority, but they're loud enough to make it seem otherwise.

My stance remains the same based on experience. You're right about the parents and the lack of cooperation; it's happened before and it'll happen again. More and more parents are checking out. So, I'm asking all you "experts" and "pros": can a school actually fix this? Is there a legal way? Is there any actual will to do it? Can extreme cases that a school can't handle be handed off to another agency or authority? And don't tell me that if a parent refuses to help when their kid is terrorizing a classroom, the school is just supposed to sit there and take it. Is that really how it works? Because if it is, our society is in serious trouble.

Look, I’ve seen an example of this before—I won't name the school or the town, but here's the deal. One principal decided to turn a single room on campus into a sort of "school jail." Here’s how it worked: if a kid was disrupting class or causing chaos during recess, they’d get hauled into that room. Then, the parents would be called in immediately to pick up their child and hear exactly what went down. This wasn't some rogue move, either; it was announced at a PTA meeting, and every parent there agreed it was fine. It actually happened three times. Once those kids went through it, things settled down. I'm not saying I'm totally okay with it, but I am saying it works. When you have to show up at the principal's office three times because of your kid's behavior, you start making sure they behave better at home just to avoid the hassle.

Jason Ortiz5 said:Honestly, I always get a good laugh whenever someone starts waxing poetic about the "good old days." 🤣

See, I actually went to school during those supposedly "magical" years. And right here in Indianapolis, too. Looking back, it wasn't some perfect utopia—it was a total mixed bag, just like it is now. We had drug users in our classes, bullying was everywhere, guys were getting into fights, girls were scrapping... there were kids being picked on both physically and mentally. I even remember teachers practically running out of the classroom in tears.

If you ask me, that environment is exactly what produced the little monsters we see in middle school today... 😉

I remember those types of characters from back then, too. I remember fights breaking out right in front of the school because kids from other schools showed up specifically to scrap. There was never a shortage of reasons—losing an interscholastic game, some girl walking with a guy from our school... it was always happening (unfortunately), and it’ll keep happening. But that stuff happened both inside and outside of school, and that's a police matter. Same goes for neighborhood gangs; they've always existed and always will. That's also a police matter. What actually worries me is how indifferent schools have become toward handling problems within their own walls. Nowadays, it's become trendy to say, "We can't," "We aren't allowed," "We don't have the authority..." or "That's not our business, we aren't here to raise other people's kids..."
That's what bugs me. Invoking the "old days" only works in the sense that back then, schools actually knew how, wanted to, and were able to deal with things. What has actually changed about kids from then to now? Almost nothing. They're basically the same, just with smartphones and TVs added to the mix...
Bottom line: the kids haven't changed much, but the schools have (in terms of approach, willpower, and problem-solving). So let's stop judging the kids. They need help—every single one of them, including both the victims and the bullies. I just think that with the increasingly common attitude among educators that this isn't their job or responsibility, we're seeing worse and worse results, and the gap between the two groups of kids and their parents is just widening.

Nicholas King said:This constant nostalgia for the "good old days"—it always leads to the same logical dead end. If things were supposedly better "back then," if there was that famous sense of order and discipline people love to whine about, then—theoretically speaking—one would expect that people raised within such a system (and just to be clear: I am not referring to the political "old days") would turn out to be wonderful, decent, exemplary human beings and parents.

Yet, on the flip side, you seem to persistently insist on blaming parents as the critical weak link in the upbringing chain—the component that most frequently fails.

The contradiction—and frankly, the absurdity—of advocating for those "good old days" is this: weren't those very parents, whom you are currently lamenting, actually products of that "wonderful" old system? They were shaped by the exact same system you claim is so desirable.

Yeah, you're right. When I look back at my own youth and see those people, you can see the results in the next generation. You see the direct influence of how their parents acted back then on how their kids behave now. But back then, schools actually had authority; they handled disciplinary issues much more effectively than they do today. Now? It's nowhere near as efficient. I don't know if the issue is just that the staff has changed—younger generations coming in with different training. Kids are mostly the same on average. Sure, parents and home life are key. But what about the school? If the school washes its hands of discipline and stops trying to maintain order in classrooms and hallways, what's left? What about the rest of the decent kids attending class? A small minority starts terrorizing the majority. I mean that regarding both the parents and their problematic kids. Some refuse to face the fact that their kid is a nightmare at school because they act like an angel at home. Others won't accept that their kids need extra guidance or refuse to listen to helpful suggestions. So what? Do we just let them keep terrorizing everyone until they finish middle school? I have to wonder if the school even has the knowledge, the authority, the legal tools, or—if they actually wanted to—the will to make the school a decent place for all students to be. Regardless of what happens at home.

I’ve got no clue what methods a school should use to shut down misbehavior, but I know one thing for sure. Back when I was in school—the exact same school I'm talking about now—all they had on staff was a full-time psychologist and a principal. Despite that, there were zero issues in the classroom. And believe me, we had kids in eighth grade already getting recruited for the military. Some of them were barely four years younger than their young teachers. Yet, authority still existed. There was a clear system of warnings and disciplinary actions. You went from a teacher's warning to being threatened with expulsion. Expulsion meant "one more mistake and you're out," and that actually happened. Formal reprimands were read aloud at the end of every quarter via a bulletin posted in the classrooms. Back then, no sane kid would ever dream of siding with the troublemakers. You had authority at home and authority at school. Now? It's total shit.
Our school psychologist had this specific move: during long breaks, she’d pull five or six troublemakers into her office. She’d make them answer questions, draw something, or just talk to her while the rest of us "normal kids" enjoyed a peaceful break. Also, God help you if you acted out during class; the teacher would send you straight to the principal's office, which was a nightmare for whoever got sent. It was basically brainwashing, followed by a formal note sent home to parents. That’s how we handled bullshit back then. Can schools even do that anymore?

Look, even in that post where I listed those examples, those were just things I could think of off the top of my head. In reality, small products fail every single day, and the scale of the disasters can be pretty massive.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:This kind of chaos happens in pretty much every school district in the country; you aren't some special case. You can move your kids to a different school, but you'll just find another brat pulling the exact same stunts there.

Fine, maybe you're right, but I don't see an actual answer or solution here. What's the plan then? Should parents of bullied kids just teach their own children to become bullies too? I don't get it. Give me a real solution. What are we supposed to do?
Is that how our principal thinks, too? Like, "well, they'll be fine somewhere else"? God, I can't stand that mindset. And don't even get me started on the "toughen them up" crowd—the idea that life is hard so they should just learn to deal with it. Why do kids aged 6 to 14 have to go through this? If they don't learn to avoid being hypocrites, liars, thieves, and frauds now, what kind of bosses are they going to be later? It makes zero sense.
So, is the stance that these victims just need to "toughen up"? If so, maybe we should all just send our kids to school with brass knuckles, and once they're a bit older, buy them a handgun for their waistband so they can really toughen up. This little kid has already "toughened up," and I'm sure he'll be carrying a piece by the time he's grown, just another local thug. He's definitely on the right track.

Ribež Look, my priority is saving that kid. Moving him to a new environment might be one way to fix this. I’m no expert, so I won’t claim I have the right answer. All I know is that the parents of those seven abused kids are looking at moving them to a different school if things don't change immediately. They just can't let their children endure that torture any longer.
As for the boy, his parents completely dropped the ball. It honestly baffles me because they're intellectuals. Mom is a doctor, and Dad coaches a world-class athlete from Chicago—so he's likely a solid sports mentor. But the kid has been showing behavioral red flags since preschool. In my opinion, both the parents and the system failed him here. You could even link it to social status; his parents have connections and are well-known. I'll say it again: if it were a single mother working at a local factory, people would have reacted "drastically" by now, labeling her an unfit parent and calling it a day. My goal is helping the kid, but like I said, it feels late. He's already too deep in it.
Example 1.
He corners a little girl in front of a huge crowd and tells her how her dad doesn't actually go on business trips, but just rents hotel rooms to cheat on her mom.
Example 2.
He traps another girl in a corner of the classroom, crowds her space, and starts saying creepy stuff about being turned on by her.
Example 3.
He leaves school early and burns the tires off one of the girls' bikes.
Example 4.
He ripped a page out of a boy's math homework because the kid wouldn't write the assignment in his folder during recess.
Example 5.
He and his followers ambush a girl after school, gang up on her, and hit her under the eye with an ice pop, leaving a bruise.
All of this is documented. This has been happening since first grade and it's only getting worse.
What's the move? I'm telling you, the child needs saving ASAP, but does that have to happen at the expense of the other kids?

As for the authorities, urbantinker8, it’s doable. You just need the willpower to actually follow the procedure. If a parent refuses to listen, shuts down communication, and won't cooperate for the sake of the kid, you have to report it to the school counselor. It’s their job to do everything possible to force parental cooperation. That’s the school side of things. If that fails, they have to report it to Child Protective Services. CPS has both the authority and the legal tools to step in and resolve the issue. You just need the guts to make the formal, written report.

urbantinker8 said:And I guess that's where the whole thing falls apart.
It seems like a lot of parents these days seem to lean toward that mindset.
They just don't want to hear suggestions, even when you're trying to explain that a certain behavior is actually an issue.
Without some level of cooperation from the parents, I could try to correct a child's behavior until I'm blue in the face, but I'm probably not going to see much progress, I suppose. And honestly, there isn't really any institution out there that can force that connection to happen.

When I go to parent-teacher conferences, I talk to the homeroom teachers first—for all three of my kids—and ask about their behavior before anything else. Are they being respectful? Are they disruptive? How do they treat their classmates? If I need to make up hours, I'll do it, but I don't even look at the grades until after that. My teachers know the drill by now; half the time they don't even bother opening the gradebook right away.

That's my priority. Behavior comes first, everything else follows.🙂

This picture sums up exactly how our education system is spiraling. We’ve completely trashed the dynamic between schools and parents, and the relationship between schools and students too. Everyone's forgotten who actually holds authority when it comes to learning.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...22741944_n.jpg

Mayo, sorry if my last post pissed you off, but trust me—my mom spent 40 years in the public school system, both teaching and counseling—so I pretty much know how these schools actually run. I’m looking at this through a parent's lens, based on my own time in the classroom back in the day and now watching my three kids go through it. So, yeah, I think I have some idea what I'm talking about. It’s hard for me to be totally objective, but since everyone posting here seems to be educators or close to them, it makes it sound like you’re all perfect saints with flawless consciences. Sorry, but from my own experience and what my kids deal with, I can't say for sure that everything you wrote is the absolute truth.
Obviously, I'm not saying everyone is bad. There are still dedicated teachers out there—like your mom—who actually follow the curriculum and do their jobs right. But look, I’m pointing out specific examples (maybe they're just a few bad apples in a big barrel) that end up overshadowing the good work their colleagues do. I'm giving examples, not making sweeping generalizations.
Sox
Yeah, the curriculum and lesson plans. Man, wouldn't it be great if things were updated constantly so they stayed relevant, especially in subjects where that's obvious? And honestly, the textbook situation is a massive joke. It's become a money grab for major publishing houses. Who pays the price? We do. Our kids do. It hits our wallets and messes with our children's heads. I feel like anyone could write a textbook these days without breaking a sweat. I don't even get why the review boards exist; their purpose seems totally murky to me. How can anyone claim those committees are doing a high-quality job when the volume of books is so huge? Every single year, seven different publishers churn out "new and improved" editions, and they lean hard on teachers to convince them that *this* specific book is the only way to teach the material. That needs to change.
Sox, regarding those "influential" people...
Look, there's a long list of stuff that needs fixing, but we have to fight it seriously. I'm fighting it myself.
http://osantunamihanovica.blogspot.com/ (Please, admins, forgive me for dropping a link one more time, Nica) You can see what I mean on this site. In my school, there are situations where the principal is directly responsible for failures regarding this exact issue. But a large group of us parents are constantly leaning on the administration, so things have actually started to shift slightly. It’s small, but it’s movement. As for "influential parents"? That's just a mindset. It's the idea that someone is a god compared to everyone else. Personally, I don't give those "authorities" the satisfaction of feeling superior to me. For crying out loud, there are institutions designed to solve these problems. When you file a formal written complaint and demand a written response, the "influence" of these problematic kids' parents suddenly vanishes. I don't have an issue with them. My principal does, because he gets personal perks from these influential families—and that’s on him, not the parents. Let me explain. We have a guy on the school board appointed by the city. He used to have kids in this district, and he happens to be the uncle of a problematic kid in 6th grade. He’s the one who decides whether the principal keeps his job. Then, they recently hired a specialist who is related to that same board member and is also the aunt of that same 6th grader. Now, this aunt is supposed to handle her nephew's case. Objectively? I highly doubt it. We parents have agreed to give them a reasonable deadline—even though this has been dragging on since first grade—to fix this. The solution has to work for everyone and prioritize the child's well-being, specifically helping and saving this kid. I don't think he's going to grow up to be a model citizen; I'd bet he turns into a sophisticated criminal.
Everyone keeps pointing fingers about who’s responsible for raising kids. Look, obviously we parents take the lead on this. But we also send our children to school with total confidence, trusting that the "job" of upbringing continues while they're sitting in those classrooms. My expectation? If my kid acts out at school, the teachers should step in, correct the behavior, and teach them how to act right. Then, they should notify me about the issue and ask for my help in fixing it. Of course, there's always that subset of parents who refuse to listen to any guidance from the school. They just snap back with, "Who do you think you are? I know how to raise my own kid."
Like I said, there are institutions designed to handle these issues, and they need to do their jobs—even when dealing with influential, high-profile parents. Sure, it moves a lot slower and more cautiously when you're dealing with the elite compared to a single mom working the register at Walmart, but progress still happens eventually.