Posts by Jesse Allen2

Till is definitely the reason I’ve stopped reading this garbage that the Women's Corner has turned into 👎 I also don't get these posts from people who act like they're best friends with Till 😕 what does any of that have to do with the topic at hand? If you love her so much, just take her home and leave the moderation to someone actually sane. It seems like there isn't a single subforum without some moderator terrorizing the users. Instead of cutting down on moderators who clearly don't belong here, we're stuck with this mess where nobody knows what's going on. Honestly, just remove Till because, I swear, she's completely lost it! 🙂

Nicole Thompson76 said:

Yeah, you're definitely reading this thread as a deep dive into the philosophy and the potential for spiritual growth through training. That doesn't mean all this philosophizing can actually replace the physical work—it just means that on this specific topic, we aren't here to sweat, we're just here to talk about it.
If you're cool with just chatting, fine by me, but let others have their say if they want to.

Why does my disagreement with how a martial art should be approached necessarily mean I don't want to talk, or stop others from talking, about the same thing?

Different people interpret what Morihei was doing and saying in all sorts of ways.
Even among his closest inner circle and students, you see various interpretations and different evolutions of aikido styles (which, again, are rooted in specific ideas about the philosophical, energetic, and spiritual foundation of the art).
I don't know where you got the idea that you somehow have the definitive answer on what Morihei intended regarding the relationship between meditation, transcendental energy, the art of peace, and aikido?

Stripping away the philosophical, energetic, and spiritual side of aikido is, in my eyes, basically gutting it—and if it were just that, it wouldn't even be worth mentioning to me. It would just be another "skill," just another way to efficiently hurt someone; and honestly, if we're talking efficiency, a Glock is probably a much better tool for that.

I just can't get on board with the idea that the "art of peace"—especially back then—was something that could, or should, be interpreted in so many different ways. Like I said, back in the day, plenty of arts were trained specifically to kill, whereas aikido clearly aims to cause minimal harm.

As for debating the approach to aikido, its philosophy, or the training methods... I won't even go there, because we'd be here forever. I'm not stripping away any aspects of aikido, but I am also asserting that it isn't the only martial art with a background, a philosophy, and meditative practices. Almost every martial art has some version of that, but it's not what defines them, nor is it the primary focus of most combat arts.

And where exactly did you see people here acting like they've "fully realized themselves and their ki"?
And how do you know someone hasn't actually reached that level of self-realization and connection to universal cosmic energy?
Who's getting under your skin this much?

Well, it just seems like certain "spiritualists" act like they know everything about everything—like they've already mastered themselves, the universe, and ki. To claim you know exactly what ki is when you don't even have years of experience in a martial art is a stretch, and that’s me being polite.
Nobody's trying to push my buttons, it's just this specific way of approaching a martial art that bugs me. Spirituality and the supposed presence of ki come from years of dedicated training and commitment, yet here we have beginners (or maybe not even beginners) trying to define everything and split aikido into "the style where people fight" and "the style where they don't." But hey, maybe that's just me—maybe those are just fancy nicknames for Shin Shin Toitsu and Yoshinkan?

Was anyone actually disputing that?

We’ve got our own YouTube channel for that too.
It almost seems like even the master himself wasn't obsessing over the end results of his training at the very end.

Look, you can't be hyper-focused on training results when you're getting that old. Honestly, it happens even earlier sometimes—where you're just going through the motions of the techniques, purely through movement, without any physical contact, simply because you already know exactly what's coming next and don't need the physical grind to pull it off. There's actually a specific term for that, though I'm blanking on it right now.

In various Karate styles, they train breathing and meditation all the time, too. The issue is that we Americans tend to pigeonhole meditation solely into Aikido, while viewing everything else as just being about striking and destruction—as if Aikido is the only one meant for meditation.

If Claude Pellerin, an Aikikai 7th dan with God knows how much continuous training under his belt, doesn't grasp the concept of Ki, then you can see why I reacted the way I did.

My bad if I crashed your Dojo and disrupted your AI or your KI. 🧐

Look, Claude Pellerin understands exactly what Ki is. It seems to you that you don't know him very well, and frankly, you might be missing the mark on Ki itself.
Best, 🙂

crimsonbison10 said:There's a kernel of truth there, I suppose. But honestly? Treating martial arts—or any combat sport, really—as if you can just sideline the grueling physical conditioning is equally absurd.

Absolutely. You have to put in the grueling physical work. Without intense conditioning, you aren't going to excel at any martial art!

Nicole Thompson76 said:I’m honestly not even sure if I’m reading a thread about a martial art here. Morihei Ueshiba called it the "peaceful art" because you can actually defend yourself without causing massive, unnecessary damage—unlike those old-school styles where the whole goal was basically just to kill someone with a single strike if you got lucky. It wasn't meant to be some mystical way to meditate all day, conjure up transcendental energy, or shoot energy balls out of your palms to knock people out.

But man, everyone in here seems so full of themselves and their "ki." It’s like everyone’s already achieved total enlightenment and tapped into the universal cosmic flow just by sitting around meditating 24/7, while Morihei Ueshiba himself was humble enough to say things like, "I've only realized a small part of it."

At the end of the day, if you don't actually carry that spirit of peace within you, practicing Judo isn't going to magically develop it for you.

I disagree. You absolutely have to meditate. Without meditation, you can't master any serious martial art!

quietpilot87 said:Sure, intuition counts as a form of knowledge.
But try asking someone who made a gut decision to actually explain their reasoning. It’s never gonna 😁

On the flip side, I agree you’ve gotta find some kind of middle ground. Sometimes if you get too bogged down in all the data and "deep insights," you just end up paralyzed—too busy thinking to actually 😁 start doing anything about it.

Plus, look—both dragon and I are total UFO enthusiasts. You really think we spend our time overanalyzing where we're headed? 😂

I don't feel the need to explain my intuitive choices to anyone else. What matters is being able to explain them to yourself; that's how you eventually learn to recognize and understand those gut feelings.

I don't know dragon or Paul Campbell3 well enough to weigh in on your individual journeys. 🤷 😢

quietpilot87 said:I just went with my gut, and I know I made the right call. 😍
I didn't exactly have a roadmap of what I was looking for at first, but things are finally starting to click. 🙂 Since everything is playing out exactly how—for lack of a better word—it "should," 🙂

Well, you knew all along—that's why it's all coming into focus now 👍

quietpilot87 said:Hold up, what are you actually getting at? Are you saying that unless someone (me, or anyone else) dives in emotionally, they can never truly experience sex? Or did I totally miss the mark? Since we’re already talking about sex 😁 we might as well loop back to the original topic...

Maybe the example just sucks? 🤷

An example is just an example. It isn't inherently good or bad; it's just meant to illustrate a point. 😉
Look at it this way: if you charge into a boxing match without having any clue what you're even fighting for, you aren't going to get very far. 🤷

Paul Campbell3 said:If you can only say it for yourself and not for the rest of us, then what's even the point? Where's the logic in that? 😁 😳 😉

SU!

😘

That's exactly the point. I can't love, eat, dance, or hit the gym for you. Sorry, but it's time to roll up your sleeves and get to work! 😉

Paul Campbell3 said:Fine then. Go ahead. Define "spirituality" in a single word so the whole mind universe actually understands you. 😳 😲 😘

I think I'm the only one who can truly put it into words consistently. 👍

quietpilot87 said:The point is—having some emotionless first encounter doesn't mean things won't turn into something incredible later on, or that you won't eventually get swept up in it.

Then you've got the other side—someone where the connection is there from the jump. And they end up enjoying it just as much. So, honestly... what's the real difference?

I disagree. To me, it is a guarantee. If something is going to reach its absolute peak, you usually see the potential for that right from the start.

quietpilot87 said:The point is—having some emotionless first encounter doesn't mean things won't turn into something incredible later on, or that you won't eventually get swept up in it.

Then you've got the other side—someone where the connection is there from the jump. And they end up enjoying it just as much. So, honestly... what's the real difference?

That scenario doesn't exist. That’s exactly where the difference lies.

Paul Campbell3 said:Spot on—right up until the moment we try to put it into words.
😁 😉

Hey now, don't go making generalizations!

Paul Campbell3 said:Look, since we're talking about spirituality here, I don't need to be.
In fact, over-explaining is actually counterproductive in this context.
If someone gets it, they get it—regardless of how much I leave unsaid.
🙂

That's just wrong. Diving headfirst into something you have zero clue about, something you don't even grasp, is a total dead end. That’s exactly why you see people after, say, ten years of training, finally realizing it wasn't what they wanted, and then they go out and open their own gyms or whatever.😢

People stumble into things not because they choose to, but because something bigger than them pushes them there. They don't necessarily need to understand the "why" right away. They just get tossed into a situation, and eventually, they figure out if it fits or not. If it doesn't, they move on. Or they don't.

If you want to talk about why people start opening their own gyms, just look at the martial arts scene.

I’d argue the exact opposite. Spirituality isn't some vague abstraction or a collection of someone's personal trinkets, despite how many people try to frame it that way to serve their own agendas or hide their own incompetence. That's why you see so much "spiritual" smoke and mirrors being sold off, even in certain martial arts circles that hide behind a veneer of mysticism. On the contrary, spirituality is the most straightforward thing in the universe.

Paul Campbell3 said:Look, since we're talking about spirituality here, I don't need to be.
In fact, over-explaining is actually counterproductive in this context.
If someone gets it, they get it—regardless of how much I leave unsaid.
🙂

That's just wrong. Diving headfirst into something you have zero clue about, something you don't even grasp, is a total dead end. That’s exactly why you see people after, say, ten years of training, finally realizing it wasn't what they wanted, and then they go out and open their own gyms or whatever.😢

People stumble into things not because they choose to, but because something bigger than them pushes them there. They don't necessarily need to understand the "why" right away. They just get tossed into a situation, and eventually, they figure out if it fits or not. If it doesn't, they move on. Or they don't.

If you want to talk about why people start opening their own gyms, just look at the martial arts scene.

Well, I wasn't saying that isn't true, but I think that's a bad thing.

Paul Campbell3 said:Look, since we're talking about spirituality here, I don't need to be.
In fact, over-explaining is actually counterproductive in this context.
If someone gets it, they get it—regardless of how much I leave unsaid.
🙂

That's just wrong. Diving headfirst into something you have zero clue about, something you don't even grasp, is a total dead end. That’s exactly why you see people after, say, ten years of training, finally realizing it wasn't what they wanted, and then they go out and open their own gyms or whatever.😢

People stumble into things not because they choose to, but because something bigger than them pushes them there. They don't necessarily need to understand the "why" right away. They just get tossed into a situation, and eventually, they figure out if it fits or not. If it doesn't, they move on. Or they don't.

If you want to talk about why people start opening their own gyms, just look at the martial arts scene.

We could, but I won't.

Paul Campbell3 said:I told the guys over at the MMA gym this ages ago: there isn't a damn bit of difference between those people and the religious crowd😁 😉

What do you mean there isn't? There absolutely is—those religious types are way more aggressive! 😁

bluemason3 said:I honestly have no clue. I’m not particularly fond of those writers, and I haven't spent enough time digging into their biographies to know where they went to school. Someone definitely taught them how to read and write, though.🤣

Once you've mastered reading and writing, you can pretty much develop your own style independently. But with BJJ, you really need partners and a coach. It isn't just an intellectual pursuit; it's highly physical, and you have to master it through practice. Because of that, formal training probably takes longer... in reality, most people have coaches and instructors for their entire careers.🤷

Someone definitely taught them how to do that, but honestly, who they learned it from doesn't even matter. 😉

bluemason3 said:I honestly have no clue. I’m not particularly fond of those writers, and I haven't spent enough time digging into their biographies to know where they went to school. Someone definitely taught them how to read and write, though.🤣

Once you've mastered reading and writing, you can pretty much develop your own style independently. But with BJJ, you really need partners and a coach. It isn't just an intellectual pursuit; it's highly physical, and you have to master it through practice. Because of that, formal training probably takes longer... in reality, most people have coaches and instructors for their entire careers.🤷

Look, I’m not saying there isn't a need for a teacher or a solid methodology. I really don't. But you're missing the mark on one thing: you have to develop yourself independently, too. If you don't take that initiative, you'll never actually reach that level of mastery everyone's always chasing—that elusive Dragonflayin style. It’s over.! 😁

quietpilot87 said:My first time? Honestly, it was pretty underwhelming. Total dud.
Of course, things didn't keep going like that. Not even close.

Look, you’re an aikidoka—you should probably have a bit more tolerance for the fact that everyone's walking a different path, right?

That’s exactly what I meant when I said it’s usually the case for most people.

quietpilot87 said:My first time? Honestly, it was pretty underwhelming. Total dud.
Of course, things didn't keep going like that. Not even close.

Look, you’re an aikidoka—you should probably have a bit more tolerance for the fact that everyone's walking a different path, right?

Honestly, tolerance isn't really my thing, nor is "different paths."
Feel free to think whatever you want, keep writing, and follow whatever road you choose—that’s about all I have to say on the matter. 🤷👍

Paul Campbell3 said:Start or finish? Doesn't matter. There isn't any difference because there is no beginning and no end—just MU! 🙂

It looks like you're finally starting to catch the thread. 👍 But mind you, if there's truly no distinction between start and finish, you still have to reach the end.

Paul Campbell3 said:That's why I asked who mixed up the pots... I hadn't said anything else until then.

Alright, fine. Maybe I wasn't being explicit enough and people are misinterpreting me—probably because I like leaving things a little vague when it comes to my favorite topics. 😍

I’ll only disagree with you on that first paragraph: you don't need to understand Aikido to start practicing it. Think about how many people just show up to a class, like they're walking into a local YMCA, enjoy the vibe, and decide to stick with it because they wanted to try a martial art. You don't need total comprehension to start something new, just like TincH said. That understanding comes (or doesn't) with time and practice.

Then again, there are those rare individuals who walk into an Aikido dojo and just *get* the essence immediately, even if they've never trained before. They just live it.

Anyway. A hundred people, a hundred different temperaments, five hundred different motives. 🙂

You have to be articulate if you want to be understood. But let’s be clear: being articulate isn't about how many words you can cram into a sentence.

Paul Campbell3 said:That's why I asked who mixed up the pots... I hadn't said anything else until then.

Alright, fine. Maybe I wasn't being explicit enough and people are misinterpreting me—probably because I like leaving things a little vague when it comes to my favorite topics. 😍

I’ll only disagree with you on that first paragraph: you don't need to understand Aikido to start practicing it. Think about how many people just show up to a class, like they're walking into a local YMCA, enjoy the vibe, and decide to stick with it because they wanted to try a martial art. You don't need total comprehension to start something new, just like TincH said. That understanding comes (or doesn't) with time and practice.

Then again, there are those rare individuals who walk into an Aikido dojo and just *get* the essence immediately, even if they've never trained before. They just live it.

Anyway. A hundred people, a hundred different temperaments, five hundred different motives. 🙂

That’s just not true. Starting down a path you don't even begin to grasp is a total dead end. It’s exactly why you see people hitting their mid-life crisis at forty, realizing they spent decades chasing the wrong dream, only to suddenly pivot and open a boutique coffee shop or a local jazz club. They finally wake up to what they actually wanted. 😢

Paul Campbell3 said:And what's the problem with that? You have to start somewhere 🙂

You’re missing the forest for the trees again. It’s not about how you start; it’s about how you land. 😉

bluemason3 said:So, it's pretty clear there's an actual learning process involved. There's a specific methodology at play, even if every aikido organization does things a little differently. Everything is defined for a reason, which means 😁

Just tell us: which specific school produced legends like Jergović, Tolstoy, or Joyce? Seriously, if you know, please share. You'd be doing everyone a huge favor!

quietpilot87 said:Jesse Allen2, some people just dive in headfirst before they even realize what's happening—then others actually wrap their heads around it before making a move. 🙂
We aren't cut from the same cloth.

"Some"? I think you mean most. So many people start acting loving when there isn't a shred of actual emotion behind it. Most of them! 😢