Hey, Jack Harris3! Where on earth did Baron Borg disappear to? Is that old Latin charm of yours still working its magic?😁 🙂
On another note, about those new bones we discussed. Let's be honest: nobody gets anything handed to them around here unless they actually put in the work. You really need to start stepping up your game. 😲 😁
velvetpilot212: __________________________ one shouldn't even bother discussing spirituality in the first place. ___________________________
Master John was already testing the waters here back in March when he posted that "SPIRITUALITY IS A LIE" thread, velvetpilot212. "Aspera," his original handle, if you recall.
A true seeker of truth cannot possibly be "spiritual," gentlemen. Every single one of your sensations is rooted in this material world. No matter how subtle or sublime they might seem, they remain tainted by the sensation of your own ego's presence within the COSMIC GAME.
If you were actually "spiritual" yourselves, then what on earth would "spirituality" even look like for an awakened soul, velvetpilot212?😕 🙄 😉
Jack Harris3: _____________________________ ... does enlightenment come with some kind of secret code? _____________________________
It isn’t SECRET, but it remains utterly indecipherable to the UNENLIGHTENED. There has to be a "code." If there weren't, what exactly would distinguish you from Master John?
Jack Harris3: ____________________________ Did it really take you twenty-seven years to figure that out? _____________________________
Actually, it took even longer, considering just how demanding the process is. But, since we are talking about Master John, ...🙂 😉
hollowviper72, there is absolutely no connection between "thinking" and true "comprehension." As long as you are merely thinking, you remain in ignorance. With "comprehension," however—you finally know. "Comprehension" isn't some byproduct of "thinking," hollowviper72. Rather, "comprehension" is the sudden integration of a NEW DETAIL into your own PERSONAL CONSCIOUSNESS. Keep that in mind.
If we followed the logic of your assumptions to their ultimate conclusion, one might imagine a person could simply deduce Enlightenment for themselves. But they cannot.
"Thinking," on the other hand, is nothing more than running in place. It is pure LER. Just ask people like Marie Curie or Dmitri Mendeleev what they actually discovered versus what was simply revealed to them in the middle of an ordinary dream. 😎 🙂
velvetpilot212: _________________________ There shouldn't be any interruptions here, because every moment we pause is nothing short of a defeat. _______________________
Every version of heaven and hell begins with such lucid principles.😲
Jack Harris3: ___________________________________ What seems to be the problem, "Master"? Have we finally managed to trip over our own tangled web of contradictions?
First, you claim:
quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pache, even when you are absolutely CONVINCED that an ENLIGHTENED BEING stands before you, you are still merely LYING TO YOURSELF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
And then, just a few posts later, you state with total CERTAINTY:
quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The grass and the trees have ALWAYS been ENLIGHTENED. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
SINCE WHEN HAS JACK HARRIS BEEN SAYING THAT?
Surely you aren't some low-life scavenger without even a shred of dignity left? Tell your master that the first thought from this "MASTER" describes the CONSCIOUSNESS OF AN UNENLIGHTENED BEING.
The second, however, describes the CONSCIOUSNESS OF AN ENLIGHTENED BEING.
Such "MASTERFUL" assertions can only be understood by ENLIGHTENED DOGS. 🙂 🙏 😎
As for that "third quote," this "MASTER" uttered it ages ago. But a scavenger is a scavenger, endlessly gnawing at the exact same bone. 😛
Vorkosigan: ______________________________ I make it a point to steer clear of those who claim to have found the truth, because I am convinced they are dead wrong. _____________________________
You’re absolutely right, Vorkosigan. Unless, of course, you actually understood the reasoning behind it.👋
hollowviper72: __________________________ A Master John takes the exact same path as the old man, isn't that right? He just approaches from the opposite direction. Perhaps you should give the koan a bit more serious thought. __________________________
hollowviper72, a koan isn't designed to serve your "thinking." 😕 🙄
hiddenpuma75: ____________________________ Look, I wasn't actually feeling any pressure—even if it felt like it—to spend ten minutes digging through my own old posts... ____________________________
Ten minutes!? You, hiddenpuma75, will be the very first one to experience INSTANT ENLIGHTENMENT on the North American Peninsula.🙂 🙄 😕
hollowviper72: _____________________________ So, how exactly would this Zen koan apply to the discussion we’re having here? _____________________________
Gaudrathe, this was back when disciples actually listened to their teacher. And back when teachers were truly designated by those who came before them.
In the story provided, Shinkan also teaches using the methods of ancient traditions. For those long, rather tragic, extensive spiritual paths, "ACHIEVEMENT" was always the established rule. Which explains why it is entirely possible for Shinkan's DISCIPLE to be on his "fiftieth" step without ever having even glimpsed the sun.
Master John—bless his soul—constantly stumbles upon these menopause-era interpretations of serious herbal spirituality within this very list. There isn't even a shred of interest shown toward a RETURN TO SELF.
Then there is a series of retrospective odes, to which the Master grants his full attention.
The Master's more "modern" way of making the point from the story would go something like this:
"Tendai is mistaken when he claims that even the grass and the trees will one day reach enlightenment." "For both the grass and the trees have ALWAYS been enlightened."
Jack Harris3: ________________________________ "I have an answer! Though, unfortunately, it doesn't quite address the question at hand..." __________________________________
You still have these left to account for: Buddha Muhamed Osho Tolle and that young lady with her "game theory"
When you bring up that "glass of water," hiddenpuma75, John LikeYOU just mentioned how his master finds it utterly exhausting to write about the same people over and over again. A MASTER isn't a politician; he doesn't just recycle the exact same speech every time he shows up somewhere.
The MASTER hasn't held a single grudge against you for your "non-responses," not even in your wildest dreams. He simply made that point to warn you that he has been posing "questions" to you just as much, yet, apparently, they never reached you. Two of those were directed at you following that recent debate regarding the book by that young lady, which you portrayed as being about ENLIGHTENMENT.
For the more short-sighted participants in our discussions, it would be far more INSTRUCTIVE if you could CLARIFY for us exactly how you connect these two things:
1) the words of Nisargadatta Maharaj, which brought an unprecedented peace and stillness to this soul currently writing these words
2)
while clinging to the most vital realization gained during the dream of this life: I DECLARE THAT I BELIEVE IN NOTHING!
"Peace and the stillness of this soul" is IMPOSSIBLE if you "BELIEVE IN NOTHING," hiddenpuma75. And frankly, if you "BELIEVED," the result would be exactly the same.
BELIEF and UNBELIEF are both merely categories of an "UNSETTLED MIND." How can a "SOUL BE STILLED" while the mind remains in constant, restless motion, hiddenpuma75?
Buddha Muhammad Osho Krishnamurti Balsekar Eckhart Tolle U.G. Papaji ................. You seem to have forgotten about Jesus, hiddenpuma75. _______________________________
John LikeYOU suggests we spice this up a bit and cut out the boredom.
Write to Jose Reyes explaining why every single one of these figures is considered "enlightened," and then Jose Reyes will tell you exactly why they aren't. Tell me, hiddenpuma75, do you actually know ANYTHING about the spiritual realm? Let's see what you've got.😕 🙄 😉
Jack Harris3: ___________________________ I find far more satisfaction in the Presence of someone who actually dares to exist as they truly are, rather than merely claiming the title. _________________________
John LikeYOU: _________________________ Pache, even when you are absolutely CONVINCED that an enlightened CREATURE stands right before you, you still end up LYING TO YOURSELF. __________________________
_________________________________________ "That’s exactly where you're missing the mark, John. I’m looking, yet I see nothing enlightened."
Gentlemen of this forum, here is the absolute essence of this murky, nebulous concept known as ENLIGHTENMENT. Some random forum user claims they can stare directly at the MASTER and see absolutely nothing. And then, they have the audacity to suggest...
"...perhaps you truly are enlightened, and perhaps I simply haven't reached the level required to perceive YOUR specific enlightenment."
During his brief tenure on these boards, Master John stated on numerous occasions that ENLIGHTENMENT cannot be seen, nor can it be recognized. Because once you believe you have identified an ENLIGHTENED being standing right before you, you are merely lying to yourselves.
The only thing you can actually perceive in an enlightened person is their "PERSONALITY." Since you are still bound by your own "PERSONALITY," you lack the capacity to see anything else. So, stop trying to measure it. Suspicion serves no purpose here. Simply ENJOY the Presence of someone who dares to call themselves an ENLIGHTENED MASTER. ___________________________________________
hiddenpuma75, from the depths of Samaria, Master John has already addressed everyone you mentioned on this thread. Be patient and wait for the MASTER'S SPECIAL RESPONSE DIRECTED TO YOU. For the MASTER must now repeat himself. And that is no small task. Particularly given the fact that this MASTER has stood by your side, even when you were Shortened of an answer on several occasions.🙂 😠
hiddenpuma75: _______________________________ for my part, I would be interested in
based on certain criteria and signs of enlightenment found in various texts...
1) the one who claims to be enlightened is not actually enlightened
2) someone who is truly enlightened will not deny another's realization or belittle other teachers
****
from what I can see, M—John, much like yourself, violates both principles, specifically numbers 1 and 2; even corporate branding follows this logic, after all, you'll never hear a Ford representative claim that a Mercedes is a bad car. __________________________________________________ ___
THAT IS THE "PROBLEM," members of this forum. It is this incessant churning in your minds, creating images and mental constructs. Not a single shred of actual "ENLIGHTENMENT" has touched your souls, yet every one of you nurtures and waters YOUR OWN PRECONCEPTIONS regarding what this "ENLIGHTENMENT" is supposed to look like.
And then, predictably, you find yourselves confused when a LIVING BEING among us actually NAMES HIMSELF ENLIGHTENED, failing to match any of the scenes you've conjured or the rigid molds you've memorized.
There are two things you ought to know from any decent spiritual "tradition": First, NO ENLIGHTENED PERSON resembles ANOTHER ENLIGHTENED PERSON.
And second, a TRULY ENLIGHTENED HUMAN being is equally and inherently ORIGINAL.
Therefore, all your PRECONCEPTIONS in this regard are futile. All your COMPARISONS are utterly senseless. All your "KNOWLEDGE" in this field is nothing more than Harry Potter-esque IMAGINATION. Stop the DAYDREAMING and simply observe WHO STANDS BEFORE YOU.
hiddenpuma75: _________________________________ based on certain criteria and signs of enlightenment found in various texts... _________________________________
What literature, people? On this entire planet today, you won't find five "PUBLICLY" ENLIGHTENED BEINGS. So, who exactly is composing these spiritual blueprints of enlightenment? The "THIRD-WAVE" of new-age SPIRITUALITY, certainly.
hiddenpuma75, citing any SOURCE at all, even literary ones, regarding the realm of ULTIMATE REALIZATION, is a pure 99.999 percent hazard. Are you really going to take this "factography" seriously just because it is WRITTEN SOMEWHERE?
And ask yourself: why should an ENLIGHTENED MAN resemble your little saints, hiddenpuma75? You will only discover yet another MOUNT EVEREST of your own social conditioning.
As for your other questions—Master John has already answered everything regarding "The Challenge" and elsewhere on this forum. Perhaps, just perhaps, he might grace you with one more insight.😛 😳 😠
Karen Sanchez19: __________________________ It seems as though every single one of these so-called "enlightened" individuals happens to be a vegetarian...
Is that some kind of mandatory prerequisite now? Or perhaps just a trend? ___________________________
Karen Sanchez19, Master John has pointed out on numerous occasions that ENLIGHTENMENT DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY SPECIFIC DIETARY RESTRICTIONS.🙂
hiddenviper9: ______________________________ Before we go any further, answer me this: Do you actually have any clue what the water content percentage is in fruit?
If you’re clueless, why don't you go ask Jose Reyes? _______________________________
And honestly, shouldn't your mother just put you back in a crib at this point, hiddenviper9?
You still owe a proper ANSWER to Master John regarding his question about how you supposedly managed your "selective exemption from karma."
Even Karen Sanchez19, Jack Harris3, and a few other sharp minds have already recoiled at the gaping void within your memory-based fairy tales, and they are practically begging for some actual wisdom from you instead.
Just for some biographical context, Master John has been a macrobiotic vegetarian for twenty-five years now. 🙂