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Posts by Hannah Thomas13

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Pure Nonsense in Philosophy ·
Come on, guys, why even bother getting worked up over bolded Gaza? He’s just another half-baked fanatic who thinks he's the only one holding the right answers. He spends his time aggressively preaching his "truth" to anyone listening, usually without even bothering to be civil. Honestly, people like that aren't worth the energy once you realize what they're actually about.👎
The best move is to just hit ignore. These types literally feed off the attention you give them when you try to argue.
Philosophers and their purpose in Philosophy ·
I mean, why should philosophers even have assignments? Their whole thing is just loving wisdom and thinking—that’s literally what the word means. They exist to ponder stuff. If someone wants a specific task or a set of problems to solve, they can just make them up for themselves and play around with them.
How much do we actually differ from trees? in Philosophy ·
Kenneth Lee16 said:It sheds its bark, loses hair... even leaks resin

But it still grows, right? It bears fruit... feeds itself... survives through spring, summer, and winter

So, I guess it gets some kind of organic orgasm feeling out of all those processes?

A whole lot. Like, a massive amount.
Think about all the different species, families, genera... it's endless.
The only real common ground is that we're both living things built on carbon, breathing in oxygen and CO2 just to keep going.
Should we get rid of the "useless" ones? in Philosophy ·
Melissa Rivera5 said:DISCLAIMER
This is strictly a theoretical discussion. I’m not trying to promote racism, sexism, or any of that other stuff. I'm just curious...

POINT IS
So, I was thinking, maybe Hitler wasn't totally off base. Like, looking at people living with Down syndrome today, or those with severe disabilities and terminal illnesses... they aren't really contributing anything positive to society. Honestly, they just end up draining resources that we never see a return on. Don't you think forced euthanasia might actually be better for everyone in those cases? Let's try to look at this from both an individual and a group perspective—and let's try to stay STRICTLY logical here, instead of getting all emotional. From a group standpoint, it would probably be better to have fewer "weak links" due to bad DNA, but from an individual's view, I guess it's a ? maybe significant? crime.

Hitler was wrong.
RE: If we got rid of all the "useless" people, there wouldn't be anyone left.
(Yeah, I'm being a misanthrope again😈 )
Why do atheists... in Philosophy ·
Executioner said:Agnostics are basically bad news.
They’re amoral and twisted.
They can't make up their minds—they just float around not knowing if God exists or not—and they’re easily swayed.
Honestly, you're better off with one decent atheist (someone who knows God isn't there) than fifty of those indecisive, immoral agnostics.
At least an atheist sins because they truly believe the rules imposed by a corrupt church shouldn't apply to them, unlike the blind followers.
Agnostics? They just sin because it’s convenient.
It's pure decadence.
Seriously, I've met plenty of agnostics, and every single one of them was smoking weed.

And it wasn't even to "expand their consciousness"—it was just because they felt like it.
It's pathetic.
Agnosticism is decadent, and decadence is just rot, which leads straight to ruin.
It's self-serving. That’s why people should be atheists rather than agnostics.
People need to take a stand regarding us and our laws, instead of just making up their own little rules.

Look at this. I actually agree with Executioner here. 🤣
Why do atheists... in Philosophy ·
Aleksandr_V_Fedotov said:They don't have their own "Pope" or a central "Church" or anything like that... I'm asking because I see religious fanatics everywhere, proselytizing and protesting, without anyone even questioning them! Hello!!! Atheists are part of this world too! Wouldn't it be great to have someone who represents the one "faith" that doesn't actually believe in anything? 🙂

If you haven't realized it yet, atheism isn't a religion.
Love and Loving in Philosophy ·
Chris Peterson53 said:I’m no linguistics expert, but isn't love just a noun?
And loving is the verb,
essentially the noun version of the action?

Anyway, grammar isn't really what we're debating here. I think the person who started this thread was talking about the emotional difference between the two, which is something even I struggle to wrap my head around—even though, deep down, I can feel the distinction.
For instance, I love eating blueberry muffins, I love my pets, I love a sunny day, stuff like that.
But when I say: I love my kids, that is a completely different
emotional level entirely.
It's the same way I can't say "I love God," even though I can say I love my husband, my buddies, or my girlfriends.
As for the whole chicken and egg debate, I read recently that it was actually scientifically?????? proven in the US that the chicken came first.
I guess it reminds me of that old joke:
"Dad, they taught us in school that humans evolved from monkeys!"
"Well son, if that's true, then I certainly didn't!"

To love can sometimes overlap with the concept of loving, but usually, it's used more as an incomplete verb form specifically describing a kiss.
Thomas Torres7 said:if you could just keep this one thought in mind... you'd realize that forgiving someone is honestly the smartest move you can make, no matter how you look at it...

The thing is...

not forgiving:
it basically means letting resentment and all those heavy, negative vibes take over—feelings that never actually lead to anything good. you lose any chance at closeness.

forgiving:
it means giving people a shot to show who they really are under different circumstances... just think about where you'd be if nobody ever gave you a second chance... a chance to fix a mistake or make things right... that's the whole point. you have to look at every issue from multiple angles.

...you try to step into their shoes and see the situation through their eyes... THAT'S the way it should work when it comes to forgiveness—it’s the most important part. if you do that, you can always rebuild that connection... 🙂

Sure, but once you actually put yourself in their position and look at things from their perspective, you might just realize that the person is an idiot. They clearly have no clue what the actual problem is or even how to act right, and sometimes you just have to shut them down out of respect for everyone else.

Forgiveness shouldn't just be handed out; it has to be earned. Knowing exactly how much someone has actually earned that grace—that’s where the real wisdom lies.

Why would I even want to be close to someone who's acting like a total moron?
Forgiveness is a beautiful thing, sure, but honestly? It’s just plain foolish to hand it out to someone who hasn't actually earned it.
Who am I? in Philosophy ·
Nobody and nothing said:I don't have much to add here, but what follows sounds even weirder:
So, this whole idea that we’re "almost there" is an old story. It’s like in religion—that sense of being "just one step away." Whether it’s the coming of Christ or the end of the world, that "not quite yet" feeling keeps the tension alive and gives people something to focus on. Once they get bored of that, they just move on to the next "we're almost there" narrative.
Back at the end of the 19th century, physicists were absolutely convinced they had already uncovered all the fundamental laws. They felt so certain after unifying optics and electromagnetism in Maxwell's theory, and then linking mechanics and thermodynamics through kinetic gas theory.
The big names from that era wrote extensively about it... basically asking what they should do now that everything was discovered. Some thought they should pivot to solving social issues since the natural science questions were essentially settled, leaving only technicalities. Then, within twenty or thirty years, everything spectacularly collapsed.
So, I don't buy into that narrative.
Sure, just because it didn't work before doesn't mean it won't work this time. But I still don't believe it.
And my reasoning isn't irrational.
To truly grasp how the universe works in an absolute sense, you’d need to be a being existing outside the universe, yet somehow capable of receiving information from it.
You can't lift yourself up above yourself to see how you function—you can't crawl out of your own skin.
Epistemology isn't some collection of nonsense. In fact, Heisenberg's relations have a very clear epistemological foundation, and it seems like this whole discussion about "what we can and cannot know" does too.
Epistemology might actually save you from chasing your own tail, thinking, "I almost caught it, just a little bit further..." 😉

Ha, well, I'm a skeptic myself (if you couldn't tell from my last post) regarding the possibility of ultimate knowledge of the universe. But I find the approach and the idea I mentioned interesting—and it's an idea specific to a universe like ours, which doesn't rule out the existence of different ones, which only opens up more space.
As for epistemology, I'm the last person who would call it nonsense. However, I really despise when thinking about knowledge is reduced to simply denying its possibility or value, which is what I noticed from that "coastal" person.
Who am I? in Philosophy ·
oceanic said:The only way we can ever grasp the universe and its "laws" is through our own uniquely human lens.
We have zero way of knowing what it actually looks like to some other intelligent species.
Everything we think we know—all our theories and data—is just a human construct.
There’s no such thing as objective truth for us; there's only intersubjectivity, which is just a fancy way of saying social consensus. We certainly don't have access to absolute truth.
We live in our own little bubble, interpreting things through our own specific perspective. That interpretation doesn't hold any cosmic or superhuman value. It's just ours.
Our practical knowledge might "work" in a functional sense, but from an epistemological standpoint, it could be totally meaningless.

Talking about epistemology being "meaningless" is basically just playing word games. I could spend all day arguing that my mind isn't even mine, or that someone else is pulling the strings on my thoughts without me noticing, but that's just nonsense, not a real conversation.
Since you seem to think the entire foundation of human knowledge—everything from physics to genetics—is just some big cloud of uncertainty, I don't really see the point in debating this. By your logic, you shouldn't even leave the room, because everything outside wouldn't exist. Heck, once you close your eyes, nothing exists until you open them again. Even what you're reading right now isn't "real"; it's just an idea in your head, assuming your head—and you—even exist in the first place.🙄
Who am I? in Philosophy ·
nobody and nothing said:We owe them something, but they also owe us—at least in how they’re phrased through human language, human math, and human experiments... and they exist because of people. Newton's laws are Newton's. He wrote them down in his own uniquely human way. His formulas don't perfectly map onto reality; they map onto his specific range of experience. When conditions change, those imperfections show up. That's why one generation of scientists builds on, fixes, or adds nuance to the laws of the previous one. They are human laws, just as much as they are "natural" ones (though, like you mentioned, trying to separate "natural" from "human" is pretty much an impossible distinction). We simply have no way to see things as they are "in themselves," or from any perspective other than a human one.

I think it’s more accurate to say: Our interpretation of those laws is human. The laws themselves are natural and more or less intelligible to us; we just grasp them with varying degrees of precision, refining our understanding over time (at least so far).
And yeah, Newton's law is called Newton's because he was the first to uncover it. If that "apple" had hit Sir differently, someone else's name might be on them instead. To me, the whole point of this idea of "the human element" is two-fold: on one hand, it highlights the likely limits of our perception, and on the other, it supports what I'm really getting at—moving away from anthropocentrism or any kind of "center-based" thinking. Imagine if we somehow tapped into the knowledge of another civilization and found it lined up with ours. That wouldn't prove absolute truth; it would just increase our confidence in our findings, similar to how two people agreeing on something makes us feel more sure, even if it isn't "absolute." It's just a warning against being too self-centered or treating anything as a final, absolute truth. It isn't about dismissing our knowledge of things that have existed far longer than we have.

Right now, I'm really fascinated by this drive among theoretical physicists. They’re essentially trying to prove that we're actually quite close to uncovering a unified cosmic law and reaching the very edge of the universe's existence. By looking at current quantum states and velocities, they're hitting boundaries for how matter and energy can behave, which leads us toward a new kind of "atom" and concrete physical limits that seem almost within reach. It's like a mathematical approach where, instead of proving a claim directly, you find its borders—seeing if it's finite or infinite and where the constraints lie. Of course, even though it looks plausible, it's still a long shot. But it sounds incredibly cool, and it gives you hope that we might actually achieve a complete human understanding of a universe like ours.
Who am I? in Philosophy ·
Nobody and nothing said:Equating "human experience" with common sense just isn't right. Common sense is basically just the average opinion held by the majority—basically what people think when they only have a surface-level grasp of a topic, rather than people who actually have expertise. Honestly, it’s just a collection of prejudices that might be superficially accurate, but once you really dig deep—once you gain actual experience in any area of life—common sense always falls short compared to true experience. In everything where I’ve managed to gain a bit more experience, common sense hasn't proven to be a reliable metric. So, not only is common sense not the same thing as "human experience," but it's actually the opposite: for anyone living a life that isn't totally superficial, their experiences often clash with the "average" opinion.
Who are we talking about here? Who are this "we" (or "you"?) that you're talking about so casually? "People"? Which people? You? Me? Einstein?
It wasn't "absolutely certain" for me, it wasn't "absolutely certain" for Einstein, and it wasn't "absolutely certain" when he was sixteen (coming up with his "thought experiment" using a mirror and a clock), nor is it absolutely certain for anyone who understands relativity, or even for many who don't understand it... Aren't those all people? Which people are you referring to?
And again, "for us"... for whom? Isn't an experiment itself an experience? What is an experiment if not an experience? When something is established experimentally, we call it "empirical" knowledge... So, based on experience/experiment (Michelson-Morley), based on one's own reasoning (which was the only thing that seemed rational to him!), and based on the mathematical derivations made by Lorentz... But it's like that with everything. We have experience, our own perceptions, other people's perceptions... What part of that is "non-human"?
And what about logic? Is that something superhuman? Is common sense (or what we usually call "common sense") illogical?
A traveler moving at speeds close to the speed of light wouldn't notice anything strange happening with their perception of time. The only way they could figure out something is weird would be—by comparing clocks. 😉
Man... Did he discover the theory of relativity outside of civilization? Would he have discovered it if there weren't clocks? If the theory of relativity isn't "practical," yet clocks are necessary to discover it—is using clocks to find the theory practical or impractical? And how does he discover it? Through experience? Without experience, how? Why didn't Aristotle discover the theory of relativity while Einstein did? Was he not smart enough? Was he "too human" and couldn't "abstract" enough? 😉

In short, science is a human science. (It's pretty strange how many people constantly forget something so obvious.)

For the third time (I'm not sure what the question even is...): how can a "product of nature" become non-natural? How can something natural move away from nature—where does it go? Where does this "non-nature" come from?


Mentally, it's possible for a person to grasp the relativity of time in a physical sense. But no person can actually feel the relativity of time that Einstein talks about in their own lifetime. I don't need to wink at you when mentioning movement at high speeds, because you don't need to compare clocks; it would be enough to step out of the vehicle traveling at that speed and see the change, which would then be completely experiential for us (I guess it would be an "experience" to realize all your friends died during your ten-minute trip, and their children grew old). We can only arrive at the conclusion Einstein reached through thinking and consulting those thought experiments; we certainly can't reach it based on the circumstances of a normal human life. All the phenomena that are manifestations of relativity are invisible to us. A person can't notice a change in the flow of time in their daily life, nor an increase in mass due to increased speed—they can only indirectly infer these things and arrive at experimental results that lead to the proper conclusions.
I was saying he only had experiments where he managed to interpret the results using his own theory—and back then, those experiments were pretty questionable and faced plenty of pushback from skeptics.
Aristotle lived in an era where doing something like that just wasn't possible. Human thought hadn't advanced far enough yet, and obviously, our understanding is shaped by our environment. Still, I think it's wrong to say a person can only be "human" within the confines of society. Our tendency to live in communities isn't really our defining characteristic as a species. It’s obvious that the current state of civilization and our surroundings influence how we perceive things, but that's not the point I'm making.
Science is a human endeavor, no one is arguing that, but the laws we uncover about nature aren't "human." They existed long before we did. In fact, humans exist because of them, not the other way around. Without a universe governed by gravity, a human being wouldn't look anything like they do now. The entire ecosystem that allowed us to evolve would have been totally different, leaving no room for us as we know ourselves.
Logic isn't some superhuman force, but it is one of the fundamental tools we use when we need to distinguish truth from what our senses or our immediate experiences might tell us.
Why do I say humans are "unnatural"? First off, it feels like you took me too literally there, though that might be my fault if I wasn't clear enough. When I used the word "unnatural," I was talking about the ways human society disrupts the natural order and the balance between species. Sometimes, we even threaten the survival of the entire system, which is made possible by our technological progress. It leads to this idea that consciousness might actually be an evolutionary byproduct. We've essentially outgrown our basic survival needs. Our brains evolved to build tools and outsmart other animals, but they also developed this massive capacity for abstract thought. That's what set us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom, and ultimately, that very consciousness allows us to bypass natural laws. For instance, through modern medicine, humans can practically halt their own evolutionary process by preventing the deaths of individuals who wouldn't have survived in the environments that existed before we changed everything.
I've gotta run, but I'll just add one thing: in a certain sense, you could argue that even all of this is natural.
Who am I? in Philosophy ·
The Atlantic. said:


Nature is essentially "human nature"—that’s what you get when you look at the ideas of Immanuel Kant and Karl Marx.
We can't really experience nature as it actually is out there. We only ever experience our own version of it—how we’re wired to perceive it.



It’s not that man is just some product of nature. It's actually more like nature is a product of man—or at least, our perception of it is. And honestly? We're also products of ourselves. We’re constantly in the process of building who we are.

We’re looking at this from two completely different angles here. I can think of a certain idea—I believe it was David Hume who touched on it—suggesting that if you turn away from a chair in the room, you can’t actually prove it still exists since you aren't perceiving it anymore. It leads down those rabbit holes about how humans are the measure of all things, and so on. But I just can't get on board with the idea that nature is a product of humanity. To me, that feels pretty baseless. Based on everything we've learned through scientific progress, it's clear that humans are a product of nature, shaped by evolution. We didn't engineer the universe or its physical laws; we simply exist within them, having emerged according to the rules they set for us. Here. There’s this fundamental equality between the universe and nature. Our entire existence is synced up with it, whether we actually notice it or not. We’re constantly trying to crack the code, figuring out those laws in varying degrees of success. Of course, humans always view things through a very narrow, human lens. But there’s something profound that happens when we use our reason to pinpoint the laws and phenomena that existed long before we were even a thought—the very things that made our existence possible in the first place. When we can prove those truths, we’re essentially uncovering a reality that existed before us and will continue long after we’re gone. To argue that we can't be certain about these things just because we weren't around to witness them is, honestly, nothing more than a sophism. It feels like a way to dodge the conclusions our own logic allows us to reach. To me, leaning on that excuse feels pretty selfish.

The Atlantic. said:Everything a person learns or creates comes from their own direct or indirect experience, but... Always. It all comes down to human experience.

It wasn’t that Albert Einstein just stumbled upon the theory of relativity—he actually built it from the ground up.
It’s almost funny to think that she exists independently of us—unless, I guess, you believe she lives somewhere in the mind of God. 😕)
It’s a human theory, plain and simple. It works for people.

Look, if we set aside things like the Big Bang or those weird quantum phenomena—the stuff where we’re still trying to bridge the gap between quantum mechanics and relativity—then the theory of relativity isn't just some human invention. Honestly, claiming it doesn't exist without us is pretty ridiculous. It’s that classic, ego-driven, anthropocentric way of thinking. We tend to act like we're the center of everything. But when you look at how this theory fits into the broader synthesis of scientific laws and knowledge, it’s clear these principles were functioning long before humans ever showed up. If you follow the logic that Albert Einstein "created" relativity, then you’d have to argue he was basically a god who dictated how the universe should behave since the beginning of time. By that reasoning, Einstein would have had to exist at the very dawn of creation. Because if he hadn't established that fundamental law, the entire structure of the universe—and by extension, us—wouldn't even be here. It's a flawed way to view reality.

Relativity theory is such a trip. It’s one of those things that sounds like pure science fiction until you actually start digging into how it works. It basically flips everything we think we know about time and space on its head. Instead of being these fixed, unchangeable stages where life happens, they're more like a flexible fabric that stretches and bends depending on how much mass or speed you're throwing at it. It's wild to think about. Basically. It doesn't really matter to us on a human level. It’s basically irrelevant to our daily lives because its significance only kicks in at cosmic scales—scales we can't even touch yet. We're talking about distances and speeds approaching the speed of light, which is still way out of our reach. Right now, its impact on people is pretty marginal, mostly limited to advancing theoretical physics or sparking some deep philosophical debates. In a sense, you could say that while it matters to the universe, its value to us on Earth is more about understanding than experiencing. We can grasp the implications intellectually, even if we can't actually feel them.

Just saying, there’s absolutely zero room to move in here.

The Atlantic. said:The fundamental starting point for any thinking being is always the same: I AM.
One way to put it is through that old classic, "I think, therefore I am."

That's a given, but it’s also a bit of a toss-up.

How am I doing?

How much of me is actually left?

Why am I like this?


It’s kind of impossible to be "human" in a vacuum. We aren't born fully formed; we actually become people through our connections to others. You can't really develop a sense of self or even a basic understanding of reality if you're completely isolated from society. It’s like trying to learn a language without anyone ever speaking to you—there's just no foundation to build on. Being part of a community isn't just something we do; it's how we actually exist.

That’s exactly why his findings and breakthroughs have to be intersubjective. It doesn't mean they're objective or absolute truths, either. At the end of the day, Albert Einstein couldn't have just cooked up his theory in a vacuum by ignoring everyone else. Science isn't a solo act.


I don't really buy that either. As a species, sure, we’re wired to seek out community and live in groups. It's in our DNA. But a person can still exist in isolation from society. We've seen cases where individuals, almost by pure chance right after birth, managed to survive entirely on their own. At the end of the day, a human being is still a human being regardless of their surroundings. Environment definitely shapes you, but saying that someone's very essence vanishes just because you strip away the community? I think that's just wrong.

The Atlantic? It’s just too vast. Sometimes you need something more intimate, like sitting by the Gulf Coast, where you can actually feel the connection to the water without feeling swallowed up by the horizon. There's a certain scale to things that changes how you experience them. kaže:

Everything about being human feels fundamentally unnatural. We can only really survive within the framework of culture and society. Other creatures we know can actually exist in "nature"—even if that means the version of nature we've already messed with and reshaped in countless ways—but so far, we haven't encountered any other being that is as "unnatural" as us.

The way we live now feels totally unnatural. If you look back ten thousand years, you’d see humans living in complete harmony with the environment that actually shaped us. To claim that we can't survive out in the wild without our modern gadgets, technology, or social structures is just ignoring the whole evolutionary process. It goes against everything we know. We are built to endure; we’ve seen plenty of examples of people surviving entirely on their own, stripped of all their tools and communities. We are incredibly well-equipped for life in nature. In fact, you could say we are the ultimate product of nature—its most refined masterpiece. Just because we’ve drifted away from that lifestyle doesn't mean we've lost the ability to live it.
Who am I? in Philosophy ·
nobody and nothing said:But then again, you're just dodging the question...
Is relativity really "beyond human experience"? Isn't it actually born right out of our own experiences—I mean, it's not like Einstein received some superhuman revelation on Mount Sinai (though even that would be a human experience). How can a person invent the measurement of time but they didn't invent
the theory of relativity? What kind of line are you drawing between what’s a "human invention" and what is "natural"?
And I'll ask it again: where does this incredible human ability to be "unnatural" come from? Does any other creature possess that kind of capacity?

Human experience—or what we usually call "common sense"—actually pushes back against relativity. To us, time always feels absolute. But Einstein was able to abstract his thoughts enough to reach a conclusion that contradicts everything we feel intuitively, and he did it based on just a few experimental questions being asked at the time. He wasn't following his gut or his senses; he was following pure logic. For an average person, experiencing time dilation is still impossible because we simply can't travel at speeds fast enough to make it happen.
We invented the measurement of time because, frankly, it's useless for anything other than keeping our society running smoothly. It's a tool for convenience. But we discovered relativity and those other laws because they are fundamental rules of nature that existed long before humans showed up and will still be here long after we're gone. In fact, some of these laws are the very reason we exist and have the capacity to discover them in the first place.
Who am I? in Philosophy ·
nobody at all said:Could you give me some more examples of "natural categories" versus "human categories"? I’m struggling to see where the line is drawn... Where does this supposed "unnaturalness" of humans come from that allows us to just invent categories that go against nature?

Since we're essentially products of nature, someone could argue that everything we do is technically "natural." But honestly, that's not really what we're getting at here. It's not that humans are actively trying to defy nature; it's more that as we evolve, we have these specific desires and ways we try to fill gaps in our understanding. We end up inventing concepts that don't actually have a foundation in how things naturally flow.
The core idea is that humans try to define the world based on our own needs and perspectives, which means we often overlook the actual state of reality. For an example, think about how we measure time. We've invented these systems and act like time flows in a very specific, orderly way. But if you look at Einstein's theory of relativity—which is one of those massive scientific abstractions that goes way beyond basic human intuition—you see that time is just another dimension in the fabric of the universe. A clock or a calendar doesn't actually dictate its meaning.
If we're talking about purpose, I'd say the universe, the planets, plants, and animals don't exist because it "makes sense" for them to. They aren't searching for a deeper meaning either. They simply exist because it was possible for them to exist.
Who am I? in Philosophy ·
Robert Wright10 said:I don't see it that way.
At what point does a choice become "ours"?
If it all boils down to chemical processes in the brain,
then isn't everything just experience and genetics making the calls?

Maybe there's a scenario where a temporary imbalance
of certain chemicals shifts our current choices,
making them different from what we’d normally expect.
But we didn't consciously choose that imbalance.
(And when I say "current choice," I mean anything from the tiny stuff
like deciding which shoe to lace up first
to the much heavier life decisions.)

Our actions shape who we are, and we definitely influence ourselves,
but if those initial actions weren't born from free will,
then they can never truly evolve into being acts of free will.

Take someone with a heavy biological predisposition toward addiction;
(which isn't really their choice to begin with)
they end up an addict.
Someone without that leaning won't.
It’s actually on society to try and change those inclinations if possible,
rather than just looking down on people who struggle,
especially since many were already at a disadvantage when they
made a mistake.
Society should be there to offer them a path to recovery.

Honestly, this whole debate about whether it's chemistry or willpower feels like the classic chicken or the egg problem. Are we capable of using our will to drive the chemical and electrical reactions in our bodies—the very things that create our consciousness—or is every single attempt just a reaction triggered by a previous one?
For instance, if you practice meditation, you eventually reach a level where you can almost tune out your thoughts entirely. You can willfully reshape the patterns of electrical and chemical activity in your brain (you can actually see this in brain scans of long-term practitioners), which seems to me like the ultimate proof that human will can override physical functions. Of course, some meditation gurus go to extremes and claim they can control autonomic functions too, but there’s no real scientific backing for that.
When it comes to addiction, the evidence is pretty clear. We see millions of cases where people in the worst situations—bad family history, poverty, social instability—stay sober, while people with every advantage imaginable end up struggling with alcoholism or drugs.
To me, stripping away individual responsibility doesn't make sense, nor is it necessary. If you're talking about the infant stage where, as you suggest, there is no free will—though I think that's debatable since we don't have hard data, just logical assumptions based on experience—that still doesn't mean a person can't develop free will later. Even if we assume a baby lacks it, you can't conclude they'll never acquire it just because their early actions were conditioned. The missing piece here is that human consciousness isn't static; it evolves dynamically. Even if someone starts without the capacity for free will, it doesn't mean they are stuck that way forever.
Who am I? in Philosophy ·
Look, our environment and our DNA might set the stage, making us more prone to certain things, but at the end of the day, it’s still our call whether we lean into those tendencies or push back against them. Those choices are what actually define us, constantly reshaping who we are, which means we really do have some agency over our own lives. There isn't some genetic code or outside force out there strong enough to strip away your ability to say no to drugs. It's like being at a crossroads—whether it's a major life turning point or just a split-second decision on a street corner—you still get to decide whether to turn left or right. Of course, life rarely hands you such easy decisions, but the choice remains yours.
Life is a trip—or just a total death trap! in Philosophy ·
jadeseal81 said:Sorry I'm just now jumping into this conversation...

Why can't life just be purely material? Maybe we aren't quite ready to face the possibility—if it even is one—that life, consciousness, or what people call the "soul" is really just a complex arrangement of molecules. It’s possible our awareness exists the way it does simply because we evolved to function this way over millions of years, creating something mysterious and hard to grasp. Honestly, that sounds pretty cold and clinical, but why couldn't the human intellect just be a byproduct of evolution?

It's because, for some reason, people find it terrifying to accept that they're mortal and just another tiny speck in the universe. So, they invent things like eternal souls or gods to soothe their egos and quiet those fears.
Who am I? in Philosophy ·
rustymaker5 said:I think everything makes sense, we just can't always wrap our heads around it. What feels meaningful to us doesn't necessarily mean it's the ultimate purpose of the universe.
When you look at how perfect nature is, it’s obvious that everything is arranged for a reason and works exactly the way it should—perfectly.
That's why humans look to nature to find the ideas and blueprints for their own discoveries.

Honestly, I’ve never actually seen anything "perfect." To me, it’s just a constant stream of imperfections constantly reshaping one another. Nature isn't some finished, flawless masterpiece; it’s in a state of non-stop evolution. We get this illusion of order because we're looking at systems that have been fine-tuned by millions of years of adaptation—an ongoing process where whatever doesn't fit simply gets weeded out. Everything breaks down due to imperfection, from the cosmic scale down to the organisms on Earth, all the way to the atoms themselves. Stars collapse and vanish because of imbalances; the entire universe probably pulses, appearing and disappearing. Species go extinct because they can't adapt, and atoms decay and reform in endless combinations. Is it fascinating? Definitely. Is it perfect? No.
Nothing is truly "set in stone." It’s just a continuous cycle of shifting, assembling, and breaking apart based on what's needed. Things function the way they do because if they didn't, they wouldn't exist at all. I think we only claim there's a grand design because, out of all the ways things could be, we happen to exist in this specific version. We have this deep-seated need to feel special, to believe there's a reason behind it all, rather than accepting that things just work because they *can*.