Posts by neonfox65

Horner frustrated by 'annoying' track limits

Red Bull Racing boss Christian Horner was unhappy with the way the 2021 Miami Grand Prix was decided, with Max Verstappen forced to hand over the lead after going off track to pass Lewis Hamilton.

Horner argued that Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton should also have been sanctioned for repeatedly not keeping within track limits at turn 4 earlier in the race. "With these track limit things, they’re always going to be contentious—but we do need to just have a consistent situation..."

“It was frustrating. We could see as soon as Mercedes started to push, they just used that part of the track," he told the media after the end of the race. “We questioned race control, ‘If that’s the case, can we do it?’"

"They did it lap after lap," he complained. "When you’re in a nip and tuck battle, there’s a two-tenth advantage using that part of the circuit."

Hamilton was eventually told by the Mercedes pit wall that race control had expressed their disapproval and not to continue doing it.

"The race director asked them to respect the limits, otherwise they’d get a black and white flag," Horner confirmed. In the end there was no sanction for Hamilton—but when Verstappen went off at the same spot in order to take the lead with three laps remaining, race control was instantly in touch to order him to hand the position back straight away.

"Obviously Max ran wide on the pass there," Horner acknowledged. "It had been made clear before the race that if someone got an advantage by going out there, they’d have to give it back."

“We had an instruction from the race director to give the place back immediately. Max was very sporting and did that,” Horner said. That ultimately ended up costing Verstappen's victory, with too little time to regroup and repeat his pass on Lewis Hamilton before the chequered flag.

"It was frustrating and Lewis Hamilton had just enough to retain his position to the end of the race," Horner said, adding that Verstappen's suggestion they should simply ignore the instruction in favor of incurring a five-second post-race penalty hadn't been an option.

"There’s no guarantee that we could have got the five seconds [over Hamilton] if that had been the penalty, so he did the right thing.”

But Horner still felt it was unfair that Verstappen should be penalized for a one-off move, while Hamilton had been allowed to repeatedly run wide when defending from the Red Bull earlier in the race.
https://f1i.com/news/400974-horner-u...ck-limits.html

🙏

Raymond Anderson4 said:I'm guessing that was Yuki Tsunoda.

And honestly, that's fine—Tsunoda basically forced him wide.

This isn't anything like the Ver-Ham situation.

Lewis Hamilton didn't push Max Verstappen off the track there.

If Max hadn't gone wide, they definitely would've collided...

He would've ended up just like Alexander Albon did last year in Austria.

https://twitter.com/oconesteban/stat...509609474?s=21

And this was actually fine too... 🤣

Anthony Baker84 said:Man, there's probably still 22 races left, and now everyone's predicting Mercedes will outpace Red Bull in development. It’s like people totally forgot that Red Bull—with Adrian Newey on the job—has always been incredible at developing their car mid-season.
Who knows what the next few races will actually bring... we'll just have to see who manages to squeeze more out of their data. We can pretty much guess what to expect from Ferrari and Mercedes, but Red Bull? Not so much...

Everyone seems to forget about the $150M budget cap. I honestly don't see how Mercedes overtakes them under those rules. The only way would be through engine development, since that's not capped—but even then, Honda is going to give it everything they've got.

graniteharbor502 said:Just look at Perez's lap times and the gap—it makes everything way more obvious. He simply couldn't keep up with Bottas's pace, especially since Valtteri managed to pit one last time just to nail the fastest lap...

How can you even judge Perez when he just joined Red Bull yesterday? Give him a few races to actually find his rhythm before making calls...

graniteharbor502 said:The Mercedes is already the better car—it just doesn't have the best driver right now.

Neither qualifying nor the race matters here... Max was still out there wrestling a "broken" car.

Max Verstappen says he’d honestly rather have taken a 5-second penalty than having to give that lead back to Lewis Hamilton.

The Bahrain Grand Prix was a total nail-biter at the end—Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton were locked in this massive battle right until the final lap for the win.

The Dutchman was absolutely flying after those last pit stops, hunting down Hamilton, and eventually pulled an overtake on the outside at the Turn 4 incident with just four laps left. But since all four wheels went off the track during the move, he had to hand the position back to Lewis Hamilton. The Briton ended up taking the win, and afterward, Verstappen was grilling his team about why they didn't let him keep the spot:

"Why didn't you let me through? I could have easily built a 5-second gap. I'd much rather lose the win like that than finish second," Verstappen said over the radio.

Team boss Christian Horner told him that race control had ordered them to give the position back to Lewis Hamilton.

"Look, it sucks, but you have to look at the positives. We were fighting with them, and it's a great way to kick off the season," Verstappen commented after the race.

Verstappen had been complaining about car issues in the slow corners from the jump, saying the team still needs to figure out what's causing it.

"I'm not sure what happened there. I don't think we sorted it during the race. We'll go look at the data, but overall, we finished and walked away with a huge haul of points," Max added.
https://www.f1-bih.com/verstappen-ze...ndi-prednosti/

Imola🙂

F1 Paddock report
@InsideF1Paddock
Word is the FIA is running an internal review on their stewarding standards following this weekend's Bahrain Grand Prix.

Everyone's fired...

Wolff: F1 track limit rules must be clear and not ‘a Shakespeare novel’

Mercedes chief Wolff urging FIA to be clearer and more consistent in the future following the drama at the 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix—he basically thinks the rules should be "sacred," not some confusing "Shakespeare novel."

Track limits really shook things up during the opening race of this wild 2021 season. With just four laps left, Max Verstappen managed to overtake Lewis Hamilton at the Turn 4 incident, but ended up having to give the spot right back to the defending champ after going off-track...

It was weird because during qualifying, cutting those Turn 4 kerbs meant your lap time was toast, but for Sunday's race, it seemed like everyone had a free pass to wander off initially.

It wasn't until Lewis Hamilton had a few close calls that his team gave him the race control warning to stick inside the white lines—a sudden mid-race crackdown that, funnily enough, ended up helping the Briton hold off Verstappen.

That move from race control just threw everything into chaos, leading to Mercedes chief Wolff urging FIA to tighten things up and be way more consistent moving forward.

"I'm just as lost as anyone else," Wolff said. "At the race start track limits in Turn 4 weren't supposed to be an issue, but then out of nowhere, the word comes down that running wide is an unfair advantage and could land you a penalty."

"Then, at the very end, that race winning decision happened. Max ran wide according to the race director's call, gained an edge, and had to give the position back—which basically handed us the win."

"We just need consistency in the messaging. It needs to be straightforward and set in stone, not some Shakespeare novel where you have to guess what's allowed."

Wolff also mentioned that he and Ron Meadows were in contact with FIA during the heat of it all to try and get some answers.

"The driver message we got was that track limits in Turn 4 wouldn't be a problem during the race," Wolff added.

"Ron and Michael conversation was happening while we were racing. Michael pointed to a note saying, 'Yes, but only if you're not gaining an advantage'—apparently, it was in the notes, though I haven't seen them myself."

"The big takeaway here is that it has to be simple. Everyone needs to get it instantly—they shouldn't need to carry a manual in the cockpit just to figure out where the track ends."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/wo...novel/5961234/

The FIA and Mercedes teamed up to rob Max of that win. Honestly, it makes me sick...

darkmarlin16 said:Mexico

COTA

analogpilot16 said:Go back and read my last post—the stewards specifically said they wouldn't penalize that corner during the race. That’s why Lewis was doing it. Once they gave him the warning, he stopped.
And honestly? Other drivers were doing the exact same thing, they just caught Lewis on camera because it makes for better TV.

Look, he might not be overtaking like that, but Max can't use the runoff to pass someone... man, it's pretty straightforward. You can't overtake using track limits outside the circuit.

Sure, you can't overtake, but you can sure grab an extra 6 seconds by cutting corners 29 times...

Give me a break. The officials say there won't be a penalty and then immediately hand out a warning? Make up your mind. Who's actually messing with people here? Even Lewis Hamilton said he wasn't even aware of the track limits situation...

wiredseal7 said:Yeah, it’s especially huge since he pulled that off during that critical out-lap right after leaving the pits. If that doesn't count as gaining an advantage, then I don't know what does...

Well, look at the data—it shows he gained a full 6 seconds over those 29 exits.

6 seconds? That's basically a win for Max Verstappen...

I think I got a little mixed up—was actually talking about Turn 4

Check this out
https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/statu...54652669386757

A-B-S-U-R-D

analogpilot16 said:If I saw that right, Hamilton went wide at turn 4, while Verstappen went wide at turn 1.
In case you didn't know, drivers meet with the stewards before every race to agree on which turns will result in penalties if they go off track—and which ones won't. The rules aren't the same for every single corner on a track... it depends entirely on the circuit.

Today, Hamilton actually told us that turn 4 doesn't carry a penalty. And he played it smart by using that to his advantage. Max's issue is just that he wasn't paying enough attention during that pre-race briefing, so he didn't take advantage of it. That's why Hamilton is the smarter driver here.
As for Max, he went wide at turn 1 while trying to overtake. It reminds me of when Raikkonen cut that chicane on the final lap a few years back—can't remember which track it was. He cruised into the podium finish thinking he was safe, but then the stewards stepped in and stripped him of it.

Man, what are you talking about? That "turn 4" thing was actually about turn 1.

That Raikkonen situation was cutting a corner, which definitely warrants a penalty. But this is just widening the line... that's totally different and should be allowed. Besides, legends like Senna, Prost, and Pike used to drive like that all the time, before some idiot at the FIA decided to change the rules and start making life difficult for everyone.😠

ruggedhawk20 said:Look, man... if you lose, you've got every right to be pissed.

But being mad doesn't mean you have to make a fool out of yourself in front of the whole forum.

In my book, the only ones looking foolish here are the FIA. But let's be real—they can't pull these kinds of stunts every single race. Red Bull has a lightning-fast car, and Max Verstappen is just incredible. As for Lewis Hamilton? He's finished.

And everyone seems to forget that Max Verstappen was fighting the whole race in a "broken" car. He had some kind of issue with his differential...

bluepuma9 said:The rule is there—drivers get a warning if they gain time by cutting corners without actually leaving the track limits, and if it was their fastest qualifying lap, that time gets wiped. There’s really no reason to penalize someone if they aren't gaining an advantage on track. Plenty of drivers have used that tactic to save their tires during the toughest sections of the circuit... clearly Max just didn't think of it.

Oh, please. He "didn't think of it"? He was obviously trying to cheat. It feels like the rules apply to some people and not others. Just imagine Red Bull Racing telling Max, "Hey, you can cut the corner too." Then the other guy gets a warning halfway through the race and plays dumb, saying, "I didn't even know that was a rule, I've been driving like this all day." Give me a break...🤦🤦

Raymond Anderson4 said:But they told them during the race not to do it.
What's the issue?

Look, Lewis was pitting, then Max pitted right after they told him to...
And both of them stopped once that notice actually came through.

Do you even realize when they told him? Halfway through the race. The FIA just keeps embarrassing themselves day after day...

bluepuma9 said:If he’d actually done that, they would've slapped him with a warning in no time. But Lewis is smarter than that—he just took a wider line to save his tires. That's why he's a 7x WDC...

But he straight up told them on the radio he was running wide through that corner the whole race. He even claimed he didn't know the rule existed...

wiredfalcon2 said:You're just mad because this didn't go Max's way.

Of course I'm mad. This should've been a win—period. And honestly, I was already posting about these track limit rules on the ESPN forums before the race even started... nothing changes.

wiredfalcon2 said:Honestly, the whole situation at Turn 4 makes total sense—even the drivers were saying so after the race. It’s pretty simple... they basically need to learn where to put the car during qualifying, because there's zero room for error when every millisecond counts. But during the actual race? You have to be more lenient. Fans hate those random 5-second penalties that just ruin the flow of the race; we want to see them fighting on the track. They should only get flagged if someone takes an obvious, unfair advantage. Everyone's cutting corners a little bit during a race, and that's fine—nobody gained a massive lead from it. But Max had to give that spot back after that overtake. It was fair and logical...

First off, that rule is just plain stupid. The track is narrow exactly where they expect people to pass—basically only on the straights using DRS. They really blew it this time...👎