Posts by Larry Walker24

Christian Wilson28 said:The history of this region is basically just Canadian history—I don't know if they've scrubbed that from the curriculum yet, but we used to have a slice of world history, a slice of American history, and then a little bit of Canadian stuff tacked on because they were probably still hoping to snag that part for themselves, if you ask me.🤣

*The Little Prince* is cheesy—I'll give you that—but it's a sweet little book and can stay. *Jonathan Livingston Seagull*, though? Absolute garbage. Is that still on the required reading list?

They still teach that extra history stuff too.

Larry Walker24 said:urbantinker8 - teen read recommendation - Miriam Preisler's "Dark chocolate" is actually killer

I tried reading that "Momo" fairy tale in German and honestly? Total garbage.

urbantinker8?

urbantinker8 - teen read recommendation - Miriam Preisler's "Dark chocolate" is actually killer

I tried reading that "Momo" fairy tale in German and honestly? Total garbage.

Peter Doyle2 said:Well, that's not part of the official canon and doesn't follow any historical timeline—honestly, Larry Walker24, you really should watch the clock. 😬

Kazo the rhino says it's being handled in the German language 🤷

mea culpa

why isn't "we kids from the train station zoo" included in the required reading list?

This is the kind of education system we actually need:

Animal Farm is easily one of the best books out there. It’s honestly terrifying how much it mirrors what’s going down in the world TODAY—it hits way too close to home.

The Little Prince—a total classic.

Susan James said:Actually, that isn't quite right.

Mark Twain was actually nominated multiple times, both for his work with Tom Sawyer and his various short stories.

No children's author has ever actually won a Nobel

Well, even Hitler was nominated for a Nobel 😉

and he was even Person of the Year in TIME Magazine

urbantinker8 said:I suppose so.
But I mean, why would a Nobel Prize winner even be sitting there in a high school reading list anyway?🙄

It’s fine if we just stick to dwarves, wizards, witches, or aliens or whatever else. 🎉🤦

Come on, Larry Walker24, get serious for a second.
When you make claims like that—not to mention those comments about how Dostoevsky is garbage—well, I guess you're just painting a rather... let's call it an unflattering picture of yourself.😒

Don't get mad at me, but I can't even get through "Cricket and Fury."

A Nobel (or an Oscar, for that matter) isn't some gold standard for quality; at least not always. Since I work in STEM, I could probably name ten people right now who deserved a Nobel but never got one.

Not to mention, they don't even give Nobels out for children's books.

If Andrić hadn't won a Nobel, I doubt he'd ever show up on a required reading list.

wanderingbadger44 said:It feels like everyone is just pretending he’s actually good
Tolkien! 🤦

The truth is, he’s essentially literary junk, which is why you won't find him getting any serious attention in American English departments or literature programs. Honestly, most people wouldn't have even heard his name if it weren't for those massive movie franchises, because his work just doesn't hold much weight on its own.

And even if we set that aside, let's be real: nobody is picking up his books unless they're looking to catch up on the films.

Yeah, because Faulkner is clearly the GOAT🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

silentraven6 said:

I honestly don't know how people can just gloss over this stuff. It’s like they’re walking through life with their eyes shut tight. I was reading through some old essays the other day—you know, the kind of heavy lifting that actually makes you think—and it hit me how much we miss when we aren't paying attention to the details. Everything matters. Every little thing. I saw what wanderingbadger44 was saying earlier about the way modern society just moves too fast, and I have to agree. It feels frantic. We’re all just rushing toward some finish line that doesn't even exist. It reminds me of those stories where characters are chasing ghosts, only to realize they were the ones haunting themselves all along. It’s heavy, I know. But if we don't stop to breathe and actually look at the world around us, what are we even doing? What’s the point of the struggle if we aren't present for it? kaže:
Finally, someone actually knows what they're talking about—and I mean a real professional here, someone who isn't just blowing smoke like everyone else on this forum. Unlike the rest of you guys, who seem to be arguing over some random high school reading list, this person is actually bringing some real expertise to the table.🙏
But still.
I guess we're just sitting around waiting on the others now...🍿

MajoWhy on earth would you think that someone like Ivo Andrić, Arthur Conan Doyle, a Raven-like storyteller, or even Jules Verne would actually grab a kid's attention?
Or maybe just more interesting than the other authors on the required reading list this year?
I’m pretty much certain that people would drop dead from boredom just as quickly reading through a long-winded Jules Verne description as they would wading through those endless Marcel Proust reminiscences.🙂
Opinion pieces, essays, deep-dive critiques? Honestly, that kind of stuff is a total nightmare for kids today. They just aren't interested. The only way you might actually grab their attention is if the topic revolves around bloggers, YouTubers, or Instagram influencers—maybe then they'd bother to look up from their phones.

So, I’ve been thinking about this lately—what is actually the point of diving into the works of someone like Stephen King or J. R. R. Tolkien? And more importantly, why should anyone who considers themselves "educated" bother with them? It’s a fair question. You have people who look down their noses at genre fiction, treating it like some sort of guilty pleasure rather than actual literature. But honestly? I think they're missing the forest for the trees. Take King, for example. It isn't just about the jump scares or the gore. If you really sit with his writing, he’s a master of the human condition. He writes about how ordinary, everyday people—people you might pass on a street in Chicago or a small town in Ohio—react when the unthinkable happens. He digs into that raw, unvarnished anxiety we all carry around. That kind of psychological depth? That’s real stuff. It’s worth reading because it holds up a mirror to our own fears and vulnerabilities. Then you’ve got Tolkien. People call it "escapism," and sure, part of it is. But it’s much deeper than just running away from reality. When you read *The Lord of the Rings*, you aren't just reading about hobbits and magic; you're reading about the struggle between good and evil, the weight of responsibility, and the idea that even the smallest, most insignificant person can change the course of history. There's a profound moral architecture in his world-building that stays with you long after you close the book. I feel like an educated person should read them precisely because these stories touch on universal truths. Literature isn't just about high-brow prose or obscure metaphors; it's about empathy and understanding the complexities of existence. Whether you're navigating the dark corners of a haunted house or trekking through Middle-earth, you're learning something about what it means to be human. I'm curious what everyone else thinks. Is there value in the "genre" stuff for you, or do you prefer sticking to the classics?

Language isn't even their main hurdle. If you look at someone like August Šenoa—take his work on *Judith*, for instance—it’s more than just a matter of distance or a language barrier. It's deeper than that.

The Raven-like *Forgotten Son* is honestly such a great pick for high schoolers. It’s probably one of those last real chances we have to actually instill some values regarding empathy and accepting people who are different from us. Plus, you can really dive into the mechanics of the language since Gvran is such a master at it. Also, his *Judith* could easily serve as a precursor to something more Marulić-like—it feels like a smoother, more appropriate way to bridge that gap.

In Verne’s *Danubian* nautical tales, you don't see nearly as many of those complex sentences, but honestly, I don't think sentence structure itself is the issue when it comes to kids. Look, I never said I was against foreign loanwords, neologisms, or those flashy, stylistic sentences. I have nothing against Marcel Proust; I actually think a junior in high school has the capacity to tackle him if they just keep a dictionary of foreign terms handy. And frankly, I use one myself. I’m not about to sit here and feed anyone the lie that I don't need to look up certain foreign words that have become part of our everyday American vocabulary. It's just reality. My ten-year-old knows exactly where the dictionary is kept and what it's for. Plus, everything is online now—you can find a definition with a single click (I’ve actually been working on a project centered around that very idea). My only real issue is with the rigid adherence to archaic poetic periods and being tortured by meter or old-fashioned American English that even an average American linguist would struggle to parse.

The sheer volume of vocabulary in those works stems from Latin, Greek, and Italian roots. Honestly, you shouldn't expect someone to stumble upon those kinds of linguistic connections—or that kind of "spaghetti" method of linking languages together—when they're only fifteen. It’s just not how it works. You need more time to develop that kind of insight.

I don't think essays and critiques are the nightmare here; I think underestimating them is the real nightmare. Think about it—a graphic designer actually needs to know how to visually interpret Francisco Goya’s paintings when they're working on an essay about him. It sounds simple, but the task is actually pretty heavy: they have to dive into those two specific essays, handpick the images that best capture the artist's essence through the lens of someone like Miroslav Krleža or Ivo Andrić, then modernize the layout to meet current standards. On top of all that, they’re expected to design a whole new edition for a school-level booklet, complete with their own comparative analysis of those two distinct writing styles. That's a lot more than just "picking pictures."

Can someone else here write an essay about Lidija Bačić and Jelena Rozga? I’d love to see it done in the style of Miroslav Krleža or Ivo Andrić—basically, try to mimic their specific prose and how they build an argument. 🤣

What’s actually worth reading when you look at someone like J. R. R. Tolkien or Stephen King? What hits the mark and what just misses? It makes me wonder about the true value of a literary work—I mean, how much weight does a book really carry, and how long does it actually take for something to earn the title of a "classic"? Take King, for example. Is he truly a classic? There seems to be this ongoing debate about whether you can even bridge the gap between his written word and modern media culture. Can you really lump them together? And then there's the deeper question: could you, say, pick up a classic piece of literature dealing with the devil and compare it to something like *Radiation* before sitting down to watch the film adaptation? Does that connection even hold water?

Did J. R. R. Tolkien really go all out trying to map out an entire universe? I mean, he didn't just write a book; he built a whole mythology from the ground up. It makes me wonder if we can even put his work on the same level as classical Greek mythology or those old Greek tragedies. Is there a direct line between his legends and the classics? I’d love to dig into that—to look for those patterns and talk about why we’re so obsessed with myths and these fantastical creatures in the first place. There's also something fascinating about how a character's physical traits seem to mirror their internal struggles, you know? Like, how their psychological flaws, their deviations, or even their mental shortcomings are written right onto their bodies. And honestly, a simple question like: why do Hobbits have such big feet? There has to be a reason behind everything.

top 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

So this is what I'm calling the American curriculum for the 21st century

silentraven6 said:I mean, why isn't someone like Philip K. Dick included? Why are we seeing such a lack of intelligent crime fiction filled with archetypal characters? Where is Arthur Conan Doyle?

And what about graphic novels in the curriculum? Something like Persepolis would be an incredible choice for high school juniors—it’s a brilliant graphic novel.

Then there's the absence of Huysmans. He’s such a fascinating, aestheticist author with this genius way of reflecting on the world through the lens of his characters' distorted perceptions.

We have those brilliant Raven-like dramas, but what happened to the short story or slam poetry? And what about the fantasy writers and that Borgesian legacy? Even if it's a niche, you could pull out some great stories for kids, link them to modern fantasy works, or even connect them to sci-fi. We even have that one sci-fi novel by Mark Twain which feels a bit juvenile, but it's worth including just because it was an attempt. You could really do something amazing with that.

Why is there no non-fiction on the reading list? No criticism? No essays? Imagine offering a comparative study of Ivo Andrić and Miroslav Krleža regarding Francisco Goya for students who might actually be interested in attending art academy. Those are probably some of the best essayistic works produced in our region.

Why wouldn't we have students read Kasparavicius alongside Aesop-like fables or a Fairy tale in high school?

And where is Stephen King? Why don't they ever reach for The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings?

The mysterious island from Jules Verne, or better yet, the Danubian sailor—where is all that? Can't that serve as evidence of the era and support a literary history approach? Isn't it valuable enough?

props 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Linda Price5 said:And which ones, specifically, and why? 😁

Why, for instance, are we reading Russians when we aren't reading any Americans?
What does Toni Morrison lack that some local author might have—a Nobel Prize, perhaps? 😳
What are sixteen-year-olds supposed to gain from pretending to read a book written in a dialect that I, someone significantly older and reasonably literate, can barely decipher?
Why pick some old regional classic over Neil Gaiman?
Why shouldn't young children have a picture book that actually won a Caldecott medal on their required reading list?

And honestly, given that the whole point of education seems to be something you just power through because it won't make your career any better—nor will anyone at work care if you feel like writing a tedious report any more than school cares if you feel like doing your reading—I find myself wondering why we bother sending kids to school at all, let alone forcing them through several pages of this. 😁

sorry, but Faulkner's "The Sound and the Fury" is just straight-up nauseating to me. There's no punctuation, no flow, nothing... it's a total mess.

nimblemoose2 said:My elementary school American teacher was quite unstable. It was almost surreal; if you simply mentioned something beautiful about God, she would hand you an A. As for her grading on required reading, it wasn't about whether you actually read the book. It was about whether you liked it, if you found some divine or sublime connection within its pages, and whether she personally took a liking to you.

Fortunately, my high school teacher was nothing short of phenomenal.

No amount of bluffing worked with her. She could tell instantly if you had read the material, if you had just skimmed a summary online, or if you hadn't touched the book at all.

At the start of every class, she would ask for volunteers who hadn't finished the reading. If students tried to lie and were caught—which happened every single time—they received a failing grade that they couldn't make up. A few students initially thought they could outsmart her, but once they realized it was impossible and started failing, they began volunteering upfront. They became "volunteers" by necessity. 😁

The second group was easy targets. After a few quick questions, they would start to struggle. They knew the general plot from the internet, but as soon as she probed deeper, their superficiality was exposed. They would receive that permanent failing grade. For those students, it was a gut-wrenching moment because their maximum possible grade would drop to a C, since she wouldn't allow any A's or B's to be paired with a failing mark in her grading system.

Finally, there was a small group of students who truly read the books. We would spend the rest of the period, or even the next block period, engaging in deep discussions. During those sessions, a few A's or B's might occasionally slip through.

If someone had read the book but failed to grasp the nuances, they might receive a mediocre C. In those cases, the teacher would usually act in the student's best interest, asking if they wanted the grade recorded or if they preferred to wait, depending on how it would affect their overall GPA.

In my view, this approach is fair to both the students and the teacher. It is difficult to imagine a more honest way to handle it.

Great, so go ahead and call the school board. Let them try to explain why a student ends up with a C when everything else is an A.

feralmoose32 said:unknown

Back when I was in high school about 25 years ago—it feels like a lifetime, really—our literature tests were actually quite specific... we’d get questions like:
- what color was the sky in this particular scene?
- what exactly were the characters eating for lunch during that part of the story?

You could rewrite the whole book if you wanted to, but if you hadn't actually sat down and read it... well, you just wouldn't have known the answers to those little details...

🙏🙏

It’s the same kind of stupid question—like, what color were the curtains in this scene?

Completely pointless.

Luckily, most of us in my high school back in the mid-90s didn't give a damn about the required reading. We’d just cram through the material a few hours before class, which almost never happened.

On my final exams, for English, I had:

Adjectives

V. Novak - The Last Stipančićs

Modernism

unknown

hiddendriver34 said:Summer, the census hasn't actually changed its core structure in 150 years; we just keep adding new layers to it. 😂

And as for that whole idea of "copying" book reports from the internet: honestly, that’s ancient history. 😁 You don't really "write" a book report anymore—at least not in a way where you can just scrape some text off a website and call it a day. 😉 I'm talking about high school level stuff here; I wouldn't know how things work down in middle school.

So how are they actually supposed to do them then?

wanderingbadger44 said:I mean, what's the actual utility of learning new—or old—words that feel totally foreign and out of place? By the time a kid hits five, they’ve essentially mastered the language as a functional system; they have more than enough vocabulary to express every single one of their vital needs. Why push them beyond that?

Think about it: why does a term like "maritime" need to exist in a geography textbook? Seriously, what's the purpose? What about "solmization"? Or "watercolor"? Why should an eleven-year-old be expected to know "photosynthesis," let alone "cryptogams"? Aside from a biology major, who actually uses those terms in real life? And don't even get me started on terms like "republic" or "aristocracy"—those are just more historical headaches. Then there's all that technical jargon; who cares about it unless they’re planning to go into that specific field? And if they do choose that career path, they'll learn it then.

Besides, why do we even bother with words at all when we have emojis, hand gestures, and facial expressions to do the heavy lifting?

You really have to watch out so you don't accidentally stumble upon an unfamiliar word, whether it's ancient or modern. It might seriously damage your ignorance.

You still haven't used a single word that Shakespeare uses in Judith. That's my question.I mean, seriously? It’s like they don't even know what photosynthesis is. Remember back in the day when I used to say, "can I ask a question for 2"? Yeah, that was me.

A 15-year-old shouldn't have to deal with Judith and the death of Smail aga Čengić. Honestly, forcing kids to read stuff like that alongside math is exactly why the school system here in America is such a total disaster.

Look, someone needs to run an experiment here. Let's say we let students pick any six books they actually want, just by their choice, and see what happens. That way, we could finally figure out if the issue is the actual reading material or if kids just hate the act of reading altogether. But honestly? We all know that’s never going to happen because they’re too busy grinding through the mandatory curriculum.

What's even the point of using all that archaic, old-school language in school reading assignments?

I mean, seriously, why force a 15-year-old to deal with it?

I’ve always been big on diving into deep, technical books related to my field

Just finished an absolute gem and I gotta recommend it—Choderlos de Laclos - unknown

It’s honestly such a shame this isn't required reading in schools; it would probably open a lot of people's eyes to reality

Susan James said:What do you mean exactly when you say "essay"? I mean, has anyone actually sat down after graduating high school to write an essay about some classic piece of literature? (Probably not, unless you were busy doing 😬's homework for them!) Or are we talking about writing in a broader sense—things like cover letters, formal appeals, opinion pieces, legal documentation, research papers, abstracts, reviews, blog posts, or media articles? There's such a huge variety of writing involved in different careers and daily life.

Fair enough, you've got a point. I should've been more specific.