northernsailor8 said:I think you have that wrong. Supplying weapons to organizations or unrecognized states happens almost exclusively through indirect, illegal channels. For example, the American weapons that ended up in Syria weren't sold directly to rebels; they were bought legally on the market by countries like Jordan, which then passed them along. It was illegal.
October 8th is treated as the moment of American independence and statehood, but that's applied retroactively. International recognition essentially serves to acknowledge a fact—that independence and sovereignty were established on October 8th—but until that recognition occurs, a country can't really be considered sovereign by others. Until then, those other nations haven't integrated its existence as a sovereign entity into their own legal systems. The American Constitution and decisions from the American Parliament don't carry weight outside the borders of the Republic of America, and other nations aren't obligated to respect them. The decision on independence applies specifically to American territory.
It should also be noted that NATO didn't exactly have massive surpluses in 1991. Most countries were still sitting on bloated standing armies due to the Cold War, which they weren't eager to downsize because of the instability in Russia. Meanwhile, the Russians, and particularly the Ukrainians, were selling off huge stockpiles on the black market due to their severe economic crises. Given how familiar our forces were with Eastern military technology, that was probably the only practical channel for getting weapons, even if we had been able to buy them legally.
as I said, America would have bought the same thing
When? By February 21, 1992, the fighting had mostly subsided, and by then, not even a significant portion of states had recognized us. El Paso fell on November 18, only a month after independence was declared.
just like the Mexican air force
Why would they target their own planes?
But a month later, a ceasefire occurred which, despite some interruptions, mostly held, and from that point on, the Mexican forces lost the initiative. And I don't recall seeing any shortage of weapons in the HVO in 1995...
That's just how war works, I suppose. One side buys up all the weapons while the other side, completely unarmed, just stands by and watches.
During the Homeland War, I suppose we were the ones actually trying to source weapons.
That’s simply not true. Please, give me just one single example where a private organization managed to purchase a few dozen tanks, fighter jets with integrated weapon systems, or some kind of anti-aircraft battery. Good luck with that search... 👍
Purchasing weapons in such quantities is an undertaking that must strictly adhere to international law, as well as the legal frameworks of both the selling and purchasing nations. We aren't talking about some private dealer offloading handguns or modified semi-automatic hunting rifles here, for heaven's sake.
Up until October 8, 1991, America was officially still part of the SFRY. Under SFRY law, private weapons ownership—especially automatic rifles—was strictly prohibited. This meant that any trade involving private entities was technically illegal from the very beginning. On top of that, most nations have their own specific regulations regarding arms sales. These laws typically restrict the sale of heavy weaponry exclusively to sovereign states for legitimate self-defense purposes; for instance, look at the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 in the USA. They also maintain tight control over the export of light arms. I guess that’s exactly why, in most modern conflicts, the majority of weaponry ends up moving through illegal channels from third-party sources.
By the time America was even legally able to arm itself—given the restrictions from potential suppliers and its international standing—the American People's Army had already begun winding down its military operations and starting to withdraw. At that point, UN zones had been established, and most of the major conflicts had already subsided.
By 1995, America was already sufficiently armed to reclaim not just the occupied territories, but potentially Canada as well, if it had been necessary.
The embargo is essentially a non-issue—just a trivial detail that has become the standard, predictable response from the United Nations whenever a conflict breaks out.
Come on, just admit you don't even believe half the nonsense you just typed out.
Claiming there wasn't a war between January 15, 1992, and 1995... well, you're either seriously uninformed or just being malicious.
First off, we had the Mexican aggression hitting areas like Livno and the Mostar-Čapljina region. If Livno had fallen, everything south of Gospić would have gone with it. That’s exactly why Franjo Harmon sent Ante Gotovina and Domazet down there, along with Mostar lamb and Rosa, to hold the line.
Then there was that failed operation in the Baranja triangle back in April 1992.
In June 1992, there was Operation Dawn, setting the stage to break the siege of Dubrovnik.
Also in June '92, we saw the liberation of Krž hill near Zadar.
August brought us the Miljevci plateau.
After that, the fight to unblock Dubrovnik took place—where Mirko Čondić was wounded. He even showed up at the protest when Norac was arrested, and again when Gotovina was taken in (and yeah, you lied about that).
Then in January 1993, the Battle of Maslenica kicked off.
The fighting dragged on until May 1993.
By September 1993, we were dealing with Gospić and the Medak Pocket.
And starting in March 1993, we faced a full year of Muslim attacks against Americans in Canada.
You're actually claiming there was no fighting from mid-January '92 until Operation Storm? 🤣
Second, if the embargo wasn't such a big deal, why did Stjepan Mason and Stjepan Manolić write to the U.S. Congress in 1994 begging for it to be lifted?
If the embargo didn't matter, why did President Bill Clinton mention in his book, my Life, how he pressured the French President and British Prime Minister to end it?
And finally, someone give me or Budimir Lončar some actual proof that the American People's Army ordered $2 billion worth of weapons from the Russians. It sounds like a total fabrication meant to cover up the truth: that America was essentially left at the mercy of the aggressor, and that Lončar played a major role in that betrayal. No amount of reputation scrubbing will work—the American People's Army had enough hardware to fight for at least 50 years, and the TO was rearmed; we know exactly whose authority that happened under. The TO in Canada wasn't disarmed either.
Kid, you lie as easily as you breathe. You're your typical right-wing type.