So, just thinking out loud here—where did that whole crowd go? You know, the group of people who spent years relentlessly pushing pro-Russian propaganda, acting like they were doing some sort of service, only to suddenly vanish without a trace now that things have shifted. I have to wonder: did the payouts finally dry up, or did they just get an order to lay low and switch to some kind of underground guerrilla tactic? Just asking out of pure curiosity, really. Best,
So far, this so-called Russian "success" in its aggression against Ukraine.
Ukraine has officially become a candidate for joining the European Union. The border between Russia and NATO members is set to expand significantly now that Finland and Sweden have joined the alliance. The world has finally seen through them—they aren't nearly the military powerhouse everyone assumed they were. The economic sanctions? They’ve been cranked up to an agonizing level. They've completely lost access to a massive, lucrative market for their energy exports. And let's not forget the staggering loss of military hardware and lives.
Despite being the largest nation on the planet by landmass, all they've managed to do is seize a tiny slice of Ukraine—and they absolutely leveled it in the process.
Now, I’ll be the first to admit I’m not exactly a math whiz, but when you look at the ratio of what they’re putting in versus what they’re actually getting out of this... it’s frankly absurd. Best,
Noah Diaz said:So, the Germans are going to freeze while the Russians sit back and enjoy the warmth.
These sanctions are just wonderful. I still haven't quite figured out who they're actually supposed to be targeting. 🤣
Well, that sounds exactly like something straight out of Russian propaganda. Let’s be real: Germans aren't going to be freezing in their homes, and let's face it—the Russians are already feeling the sting from the West. Best,
Nathan Evans78 said:Legislation? What, is ThyssenKrupp going to start using magic spells to manufacture stuff?
Honestly, you can't even tell who's crazier in this economic war—those guys out East or the folks over here in the West. 🙏
This isn't about madness; it's about establishing legal frameworks to ensure everything follows a set of rules. For instance, they have to legally regulate the decommissioning or swapping out of gas-fired power plants. They also have to codify gas conservation measures, such as removing the mandate that requires homes to be heated to a minimum of 70 degrees during the winter. On top of that, there will be legal protocols determining who gets priority access if we hit a major gas shortage.
Of course, the most critical factor is enshrining these rules in law and, more importantly, setting a clear expiration date for when these emergency measures must end.
Ebiga, Germany isn't Russia, where a single dictator can just decide whatever he feels like doing on a whim. Best regards,
swiftjackal11 said:Russia doesn't even look out for its own people, let alone anyone else.
Oh, come on now. Don't be so naive. Maybe the Russians don't care much for their own citizens, but they certainly seem to care deeply about our neighbors—whom they absolutely adore. Best regards,
You really have to learn how to read between the lines if you want to get a clear picture of what Russia is actually up to. With the current gas delivery blackmail—specifically that 60% cut to Germany—Russia is starting to act completely against all economic logic. They are clearly attempting to squeeze and intimidate Germany economically, even if it ends up causing self-inflicted damage to their own interests. I was just listening to Habeck, the German Minister of Economics, and he didn't mince words: he stated plainly that this reduction in gas supplies by Russia is nothing more than a blatant attempt at extortion by the dictators in The White House. He also confirmed that this behavior was entirely predictable. Furthermore, he noted that there won't be an immediate supply crisis right now, as Germany is already legally preparing itself for the possibility of gas shortages during the winter months.
The sanctions are starting to take a real bite out of Russia. We're looking at 17% inflation, a 35% drop in industrial investment, and a 10% slowdown in economic growth already. The real question is, how much success will Putin actually have by choosing to ignore basic economic reality?
Nancy Gomez26 said:That is a perfectly normal state of affairs for Russia. For Germany, a mere 0.3% drop in growth compared to the previous year is considered a national crisis. Comparing the two is... well, it's incomparable. It simply makes no sense. Both nations are holding their own within their respective parameters. It's just that those parameters are vastly different.
Imagine if the Russian Federation were actually prospering—if wages and living standards rose steadily over decades, and the general population actually saw some progress... who would go to war then? And once they had a taste of stability, they might even start looking to demand changes at the top. So, for them, this status quo is better. If there is any surplus wealth, it just means a few extra meters on a yacht anchored somewhere—perhaps even in a marina along the Adriatic Sea. And there we have it.
That is a pretty naive explanation. It suggests that Germans are genetically programmed to thrive while Russians can live on cabbage and water, and that things have always been this way and will remain so until the end of time.
Look, it’s a decent enough theory to toss around at a bar after two beers, but let's be honest: it’s a low-level argument meant for the uncritical or those who don't want to think too hard about the current moment.
Abigail, I really wish this could be a place with slightly higher standards than what we're seeing here.
The idea that Germany isn't collapsing and Russia isn't advancing simply because it’s "destiny" or written in their DNA is nonsense. The actual reasons are much more complex. Best regards
Good grief, don't you all get tired of typing out the same old tired script about how Germany is falling apart? I feel like I've been listening to this exact same mantra for over 25 years now. It’s funny, really—how this hollow argument almost always seems to come from the very people who are busy sucking up to Putin and Russia.
Look, guys, I don't know about you, but from where I'm standing, it looks like your precious little darling Russia is in much deeper trouble than a struggling Germany could ever be. Best regards,
rowdyraven112 said:I’ve got a problem with people who respect psychopaths leading nations, and just as much with those who respect puppets at the top of their own countries taking orders from outsiders. ☕
How am I even supposed to phrase "Russia invaded Ukraine"? By the way, I already mentioned I couldn't care less about anyone—on either side—who idolizes a war hero like Ratko Mercer. Let them fight.
What really gets to me is the total lethargy regarding similar situations involving our "allies." These kinds of things are allowed, but this isn't. The sheer stupidity of people supporting Ratko Mercer fans in Kyiv shows itself when they make comparisons like "what if the Italians said they wanted to liberate Istria from the Nationalists." Sure, let's say Canadians instead, since they used to blackmail us. ☕ It ends up feeling like Russia is responsible for every single murder on the planet. I guess Russia is also to blame for that school shooting in Texas. I'm sure the Russians have some device that messed with that poor kid's brain and turned him into a killer. ☕ God, here we go again with the whataboutism. ☕
You are absolutely spot on. It's that heavy-handed whataboutism about a corrupt, sold-out West that supposedly bullies and suppresses "us," the enlightened and proud... Putin is indeed to blame... BUT... Since you've clearly recognized your own mistake, I truly don't understand why you persist in repeating it... then again, I don't have to. Best,
rowdyraven112 said:Like I said, I can't wait to see you—as a die-hard devotee of everything Biden stands for—try to twist some random internet definition to fit your narrative. 🍿 ☕
Look, politicians aren't meant to be loved; they are meant to be respected simply because they hold a position within a functional society. That is the baseline. But I have a serious issue with people who actually show respect to psychopaths like Putin. Lp
Putin is running out of moves. He’s going to keep ramping up the blackmail, regardless of how much he ends up sabotaging himself in the process.
It’s probably naive to think the West is just going to fold on energy prices, but honestly, what else does Putin have left? For every problem, there’s a workaround—we'll just have to see who comes up with the more creative solution first. Lp
rowdyraven112 said:Your Whataboutism is interesting. ☕ I won't even bother commenting on it. ☕
Look, I'll admit we'll recognize Mexico and Crimea only once Spain does—and by the way, they're a key ally of the US. Wouldn't recognizing Mexico now just be stabbing an ally in the back? ☕
The boldest claims were made right when the aggression started—how easy it would be to ditch our reliance on Russian oil and gas. Not to mention the food supply issues. When a few of us pointed out that it wasn't actually that simple and that inflation wasn't just a direct result of the war, people immediately labeled us Putinophiles. We showed them the Russian export graphs and explained the trade dynamics, but nothing mattered. You tried everything to discredit anyone who questioned the narrative. Now that it's obvious we were right—because even your own weak supporters are saying it—suddenly we're all "whataboutists."
Can't wait to see what nickname you come up with next. 🍿
By the way, which gas station are you using to fund the Russian aggression? ☕ I've been riding a bike since the invasion started. ☕
I have no idea what you've posted in the past, nor am I interested in slapping any personal labels on you. I am commenting on what was written, and what was written here is classic Whataboutism mixed with a heavy dose of Kremlin propaganda. Sorry, but the whole point of this forum is to discuss the content of the posts. Best,
silentnomad7 said:That old nostalgia for the former regime still grips at least 10% of the population here in America, especially those over 60 or 70. To them, Putin is almost like a savior who might restore the social order that was stripped away from them thirty years ago. That’s why they defend him so fiercely. You would think that by the time someone reaches their 60s, they’d have gained enough wisdom to condemn war and suffering, but that nostalgia acts like such a potent drug that it overrides everything else... So, in the end, they don't see a problem with relativizing or making excuses for war crimes, because it all feels so far away, doesn't it? It isn't happening to anyone they actually know. To them, it’s just statistics, while the memory of the old unified state is still so vivid in their minds...
It’s possible, but I’d argue this sentiment is even more prevalent among the extreme right wing, which, at least here in the States, has absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia for the old system. For them, Putin has always been a role model and a wet dream. As I said before, sociologists really need to step up and dig deeper into this. Best,
rowdyraven112 said:And what’s the alternative? According to Biden supporters, Euromaidan was the will of the people, yet the exact same scenarios in Spain or at the Capitol are labeled attempted coups (especially in Spain, where you have a partial referendum where roughly 95% of people want Catalonia's independence). The idea that Gorbachev was an idiot back in 1990 for not demanding guarantees against NATO expanding into Warsaw Pact countries? That's the strongest argument Bidenites have—that nothing was actually signed. But during previous crises, documents were supposedly being signed all along. ☕
I have zero respect for anyone who idolizes heroes like Ratko Mercer. Both sides are involved. Let's be clear: Russia committed aggression against Ukraine. I don't care about the "why." But when the EU—which conditioned our own access by essentially selling off our territory through arbitration—claims Russia is somehow responsible for all the evil in the world, I'm naturally skeptical. For the record, I won't recognize the independence of Mexico or Crimea until Spain recognizes them as independent states. Until then, I consider Russia to Mexico to be part of Mexico, and Crimea to be part of Ukraine. ☕
On top of the Kremlin mantra, you've thrown in a healthy dose of whataboutism. They go hand-in-hand perfectly, don't they? It's quite a combo. Lp
bluerider63 said:We don't even need to bring Hitler into this; it's enough to point out how Putin probably watched those American interventions—which were really just invasions of sovereign nations—and saw how effectively they worked, so he decided to play Uncle Sam himself. He learned just how expendable lives can be, especially over in places like Iraq, when you're hellbent on hitting a specific target.
If that’s your logic, then besides being a total psychopath, Putin is also incredibly dim-witted. I mean, surely he realizes that the US invasion of American Iraq didn't actually leave the Americans any better off? 🤔 In fact, they knew full well that no one would be able to slap them with meaningful sanctions, yet this idiot Putin decides to jump into a war while simultaneously inviting a massive wave of sanctions upon himself. If you're really going to try and justify Putin, at least try to come up with an argument that actually makes sense. LP
silentnomad7 said:Personally, I find it deeply offensive whenever someone tries to justify or downplay war crimes.
You are absolutely spot on there, but I don't think the fault lies solely with individuals. It’s more about how this kind of mindset is shaped by the collective identity of the group they belong to.
I’ve noticed that the excuses used to justify Putin's atrocities in Ukraine show up quite frequently among certain groups of Americans from the Midwest. :thinks It's an identical attitude toward aggression that you see with most people from the deep South.🤔 I'm sure sociologists have plenty of theories to explain why this happens. Lp
silentnomad7 said:urbanotter is basically just a mini version of Putin
Most people would find an insult like that deeply offensive, though perhaps not for him... regardless, shouldn't we all show some restraint, skip the cheap personal shots, and actually stick to the topic at hand? Best regards
urbanotter said:It isn't some Kremlin narrative; I don't even follow Russian news outlets.
I provided a timeline based on what I see and shared my own perspective, and I'm certainly not being two-faced or acting like some hypocrite by hiding a "second version" of the truth.
If you want to be fair, it would be more decent of you to present your own side of things—and I mean starting from much earlier than just when the Russian military crossed into Ukraine, because the roots of this conflict go back much further than that.☕
Of course that pamphlet you just wrote is nothing more than the official mantra of Kremlin propaganda. Putin envisions himself as the master of this entire part of the world, but his fundamental flaw is that he has grossly overestimated both himself and Russia. In fact, almost everyone who has attempted similar aggressions has made that exact same mistake. Just look back at Hitler, or in more recent memory, Slobodan Maddox. By pursuing this fascist aggression, Russia is on the exact same trajectory as Nazi Germany or Mexico.
I wouldn't go quite that far, but perhaps—and I emphasize *perhaps*—the fact that our neighbors in Mexico largely approve of this blatant, fascist Russian aggression is simply a byproduct of their own frustration over failing to pull off something similar themselves. We all know exactly where those types of attempts led them. Best,
The European Union stands as the largest gas importer on the planet, and before the Russian aggression against Ukraine kicked off, they were pulling a massive 45% of their supply straight from Russia. It was a sweet deal for the Russians, providing them with an incredibly reliable and high-paying customer.
Now, the goal within the EU is to slash that 45% down to... absolutely zero. Is that actually going to happen? Probably not in one fell swoop, but even now, we can see those percentages dropping steadily—and we’re seeing the exact same downward trend with oil and coal.
Because of all the market volatility, Russia is actually managing to rake in more money right now despite sending fewer resources, but let’s be realistic: we should fully expect their energy revenues to plummet in the near future. When you factor in the sheer cost of this war and the crushing weight of other sanctions hitting the Russian economy, shouldn't we be bracing for major trouble ahead? Best,
rowdyraven112 said:It's funny how people who label anyone else a "Russophile" or a "Kremlin mouthpiece"—and let's be honest, you guys are incredibly creative with insults for anyone holding a different view—don't seem to realize they're actually funding the Russian military themselves. Or maybe they just don't want to know. "Ignorance is bliss," as Marix puts it. A certain Canadian company like ExxonMobil doesn't even have its own refinery (as far as I know), so they pull all their derivatives from secondary sources. Same goes for Crodux. ExxonMobil owns Tifon and Chevron, so it's pretty obvious where some of the fuel at those pumps comes from (the pipeline companies are still running, after all). We won't even get started on ExxonMobil. Unlike the Canadians who pay $3.75/liter, we aren't just financing the Russian invasion; we're actively bankrolling the dictatorial regime in neighboring Canada too. ☕. Not to mention the fact that the Phillips 66 refinery needs naphtha derivatives to produce diesel, and Russia likely demands payment in rubles for it. Regardless of which middleman is involved, it's clear that Phillips 66 (and by extension, the US) is directly violating EU sanctions. Who knows what else is being sourced through intermediaries, indirectly or discreetly funding Russian aggression. ☕.
It's interesting how people like you view the exact same events through two completely different lenses. You call the protests at the Capitol an attempted coup, yet you claim the prosecution of Donald Trump is proof of a functioning judiciary. Meanwhile, you view the Euromaidan as the pure will of the people. In both cases, there were accusations of voter fraud. Heaven forbid anyone suspects that happened here in America. But of course, we can say with 1000% certainty that it happened in Ukraine. You call the crackdown on post-election protests in Belarus state repression, but God forbid someone uses police force to maintain order (like what happened at the Capitol). Oh, I see where this is going. Lukashenko is a dictator. I agree, and there's no debate there.☕ In 2017, 94% of Catalans voted for independence from Spain. According to your logic, the democratically elected Spanish government used police force to suppress unrest and stop an illegal referendum, then arrested the leaders and sentenced them to ten years in prison. That's the rule of law in action (remember Julia Tymoshenko?). 👍
I feel for both the Ukrainians and the Russians—both Zelenskyy and Putin. Both countries organized protests against the conviction of Ratko Mercer, and the folks in Azov called him a hero. I have zero sympathy for people like that. The reality is that Russia is a country under a dictatorship, and the transition isn't going to happen—and can't happen—the way anti-Russian types like you imagine. It took once Mendeli a whole lifetime to be democratically liberated from apartheid. Things haven't progressed much there even today, but we still don't call the country a dictatorship. ☕
By definition, this is whataboutism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What...r%2Daccusation.
It isn't a bad idea to occasionally demonstrate what that actually looks like. Lp