Posts by wiredpilot28

Scott Wood said:I’ve been thinking for a while now that something needs to change regarding the video section in this group, but nothing happens. Honestly, it feels ridiculous that a massive group like BBB doesn't have an official channel capable of posting even a 5-6 minute clip from a match (at least the big kickoff moments). The 2018/2019 season was incredible in terms of flares, atmosphere, and turnout, but we’re missing that official outlet to showcase the true energy at the games. We’re way too big of a group to let this slide. I really think uploading videos to an official channel would improve our presence in the stands and help attract new kids who are currently stuck watching the same old clips from 2013-2014 over and over. It would be a huge step forward! 🙂
A few examples from last season that deserve footage (we were filming): May 26th, Real Madrid vs. Hajduk (best flares since 2005)
May 5th, Real Madrid vs. LA Galaxy (150 people going wild, with 20-30 flares)
March 30th, Real Madrid vs. Inter Miami (Birthday celebration, awesome chanting and flares)
July 3rd, Real Madrid vs. FC Porto (unforgettable atmosphere in the last 5-10 mins)
These are just a few starting points.
It would be great if leadership gave some thought to this "important" matter; it would definitely help the group grow.

You're asking the wrong people here. You have the stands and the crew you can talk to directly. You also have another forum where you could post something like this if you aren't communicating with people face-to-face.
In the stands. Any good suggestion is a step forward. You just have to communicate it the right way.

There were no knives involved.

People don't really ask the Bad Boys for their take on this forum, just like they probably don't bother asking anyone else either. It seems like some people actually enjoy stirring up hysteria. They love giving every clown a chance to anonymously dump their toxicity in a space that, UNFORTUNATELY, gets a certain level of legitimacy just because some people show up.

Then everyone loses their cool and starts typing whatever comes to mind.

Irgine, I’m going to post a response to you and myself regarding a few things—it might end up being longer than yours. I think we were mostly on the same page about most of it.

You look just as ridiculous here as you do anywhere else, no matter how hard you try to act like someone who’s immune to gossip and rumors. After all these years of living, being in the stands, and dealing with internet trolling, you still can't figure out who you're talking to or how to approach a conversation.

The three of you showed up to a private tracker forum—which basically serves as an outlet for frustrated Americans and the occasional person from Mexico—to fight your own little wars over some image of a guy who "doesn't talk online." What does this place have to do with the Bad Boys or even Torcida? Honestly, there's more nonsense coming from your side than anyone else's.
But real men just mind their own business. Give me a break...

Over there, you were writing essays about how the media and social networks shape perceptions, but now you're just recycling those same stories, flipped around to suit whatever narrative works for you right now.

And then there's you—someone who probably wasn't even at the brawl you've mentioned five times—handing out lectures about who writes what on the internet. You're likely sharpening your axe against some poor soul from the other side, using that same condescending, arrogant tone.

Seriously, you're using a series from nearly 15 years ago as an argument, coming from people who haven't even been active for that long. Think about how many generations have changed in the stands since then... What if someone tried to paint a picture of certain groups today based on something from 15 years ago, or from a time when you weren't even old enough to be responsible for any of this? Should someone start bringing up old documentaries about certain guys from back then and all their old stunts and stupidity?

How low are you willing to sink this debate by bringing up the conditions the Bad Boys deal with here versus how things are over there, or where it's harder to be a fan... It's just childish, complex-seeking nonsense that doesn't deserve a serious response.
It's fine that you're proud of how things are for certain people today, just like it's fine for someone to be proud of the price they paid to stay out of the mud and the senselessness of fanaticism.

Like when they head out to the Plain and hold up a banner instead of just tagging that graffiti over there.

Whatever.

placidcobra91 said:You weren't talking about character.

I was. If you see one or two instances over twenty years... then sure, you can write that off as something else, an isolated incident, or just something that isn't a full behavioral pattern.

But if it happens once or twice every single year, then we're talking about character. And honestly, that’s probably something you struggle to deal with.

Look, if that's your take, those points were likely exaggerated and things happened differently than described. It's like how you got robbed and now you're judging the situation here by dismissively saying "the results speak for themselves." You can summarize a massive issue in three words, but it's a stretch to call this dangerous or say people are being unfairly targeted.

There have been similar issues over there that didn't get mentioned, just like how similar stuff has been happening recently in America.

What Jonathan Hayes76 wrote is essentially accurate in its core, it's just written from the perspective of someone coming from a background where those exact same things aren't an issue. Or they have the same problem and think, "well, you guys aren't any better." But that's not really the case.

I'm done arguing this.

I didn't come to an American forum just to lecture you guys on the ethics of using knives and axes, or to make comparisons between our fans and yours based on a single video clip and one isolated incident.

Maybe some of these cases aren't entirely true, or maybe they're only half-true, but I still don't get why you're here trying to tell us that it's all just fake news and journalistic hype.
Do you honestly think we're stupid? Or do you think Mexico is on another continent and that someone who actually follows the scene wouldn't be able to grasp what kind of fans you guys are?
Can't you apply that same logic to your own backyard instead of commenting on other stadiums based solely on what you read or see online? Like recently, when you jumped to the conclusion—I'm not even sure where you got it from—that only a small portion of fans were actually for or against the owner... I mean, surely as a fan, you can at least get a general sense of who stands for what.

You guys admitted yourselves that there's an issue with people using weapons to hurt others, and I respect you for saying that. It’s especially notable because, over here in the States, most people just bury their heads in the sand and pretend we aren't dealing with similar stuff. You're openly discussing the problem and showing on your own stands that you recognize it exists... nobody just made that up.

http://delije-caffe.net/gal...ac/delije1.jpg

Paul Sanchez15 said:You make a good point.

The problem is that this makes it look like there actually are secret deals happening, which just isn't true. When people start throwing around these slanderous rumors about backroom deals, anyone can act like an idiot and say whatever they want—especially since most of them weren't even part of the conversation to begin with.

It’s things like this that get blown out of proportion online. It's honestly a joke that people allow this to happen when they claim to care about the group. You've got guys who have only been following the team for two or three seasons, totally out of the loop, just speculating and spreading rumors. They're poisoning the well constantly, whether they realize they're doing it or not.

It’s honestly such a bizarre, delusional situation. You have one group accusing someone of inciting people to fight battles that aren't even theirs, while the other side claims they're just talking to "hired guns" or that certain people have crawled back into the spotlight. It’s the exact SAME people being slammed for two completely opposite things. And of course, this is all playing out online, on this very same forum that was basically a breeding ground for hate and malice ten years ago—the same place where nothing but slander and lies used to circulate.

Paul Sanchez15 said:That specific guy never actually went looking for trouble with kids around town. He was mostly just breaking teeth of people who had dropped way too much cash on the group—we're talking a 10-to-1 ratio or something like that. So, honestly, unless you have a personal grudge against him, nobody really had an issue with his actions.
But the real question is... why are they letting other people back in who actually *did* all that stuff?

If you were the one getting trampled by them, you'll either get even or you won't.
Is that fair?

Tyler Jackson56 said:What kind of nonsense are you talking? The people who took money from their mommy are sitting back, sipping drinks, and enjoying themselves alongside today's leadership. Nobody attacked anyone during those five years of war in N., nobody attacked P., and they won't. So why are these kids being blamed for fighting someone else's war? Why are these kids getting attacked twenty times more than the former leaders—people who haven't been touched by a single criticism and are actually hanging out with them now? That's the whole point of what's been happening in this group over the last few years. Everything is possible when you want it to be, including making peace with the very people you're supposedly at war with. Look at the latest example: a guy from Vienna was invited back to the forum, which is obviously a good thing..

Sometimes someone just overestimates themselves. They think they have more power or influence on this forum than they actually do, so they start picking fights without even realizing who they're dealing with or why.
Then they keep spreading poison, and once they become an outcast, they play the victim.

Alright then, let's get to it. Why don't we talk about who's taking money from their mommy and rubbing elbows with the "leadership"? Come on, man, man up and let's settle this in three calls. Let's get together today and call out everyone who hangs out with the leadership and takes cash from their mommy.

Then come back tomorrow and write about how it went, because I’m genuinely curious about which specific people we're talking about.

Feel free to drop names and say exactly who they are if you want. If not, I will. But only if it's the truth.
We shouldn't be spreading slander or calling people out blindly.

Jonathan Hayes76 said:Just handle it however you see fit. Someone from out of town trying to tell us how to do things? They can't and they don't know.

Of course they can't and they don't know. Honestly, it’s embarrassing for someone from "out there" to even open their mouth. This is coming from people who show up to a scheduled brawl in the fields carrying handguns, stabbing rivals in the chest, or tossing paint bombs into a neighbor's yard just to prove who owns the block. And if they lose the fight, they start shooting over some graffiti.

And then they have the nerve to lecture us about hatred, or "poor bastards," or axes. It wasn't the Bad Boys throwing axes at moving vans.

You're really talking out of your ass here.

Jonathan Edwards8 said:Everything changes, but your recordings live on forever.

Will it eventually become common knowledge that the whole trend of online bragging, filming, and putting on a show was started by the Bad Boys?

There were even photos from walking around downtown Chicago on the way to some smaller town, waiting for rides, casual strolls, and all that stuff. I just can't be bothered to dig through them right now.

I won't step on anyone else's toes here—I could talk about early morning walks along the waterfront in a different city, or people filming van convoys speeding down the interstate, etc., etc.

The links above aren't just some leaked snapshots that ended up online because of idiots on our side, like that video from the stadium leak. No, these are your OFFICIAL photos that you use to show off.

All of this happened BEFORE anyone started picking fights with you over a game you guys invented yourselves.

@ Dalton’s return....

With Zoran Mamić coming back, things are just getting worse by the minute. We're seeing new generations stepping up (which feels a bit weak given the group's name, but there's a reason for it), and they really need to finish what was started. Once Zoran is back in the mix, we'll see a new offensive aimed at the BBB (anyone thinking the BBB is just going to shrug their shoulders and settle this is dead wrong; the only question is how much gas they have left for a response). There will also be heat directed at certain Dinamo insiders trying to fight Mamić (though there are hardly any left). Honestly, my gut tells me that even a massive prison sentence won't scrub the rot out of this club. Real change isn't coming. These guys are just faceless parasites who know exactly how to thrive within the grey sludge of the system—they're built to survive anything.
Get ready for another round of psychological warfare over the next month or two. We'll see.

@ Tovari, the message, the outbursts, the columns, the Toblerones

I honestly don't get how people can spend over seven days arguing about the same thing. Everyone just digs their heels in and starts swinging arguments—this view versus that view, "you did this" vs "we did that"—it never ends.
The banner is up. Whoever made it isn't going to jump on an American forum to explain their motives or what the writer intended. A provocation is a provocation; clearly, it hit a nerve, and the timing was perfect. The BBB shouldn't waste their energy on the "Tovari" style of drama (and I'm talking to those few sane people here who actually know how to write something meaningful—because they are rare). Whether the banner is good or bad, whether someone is profiting, hurting others, counting cash, or pulling political strings—THAT IS THEIR BUSINESS. Time will tell if it worked, and worrying about it is just noise. The fact remains that the Tovari seem to get exactly what they want (at least that's how it looks to me), while the BBB still has to fight for anything. Most regular Dinamo fans couldn't care less; they're too busy worrying about beer, dodging their wives, or acting like cowards. As long as people keep staring into everyone else's backyard, the trash in their own is just going to pile up. I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone (especially regarding the derby banner; it is what it is), but the bare minimum required for actual change at Dinamo isn't being met by the BBB consistently—AND THAT IS SHOWING UP TO MATCHES IN NUMBERS.
Last season had some decent moments, but overall, if you want respect, you have to show up. 300 people at the Gorica game, or an average of 150, 200, or 300 at Kranjčevića—it doesn't matter. Until people realize that showing up to the match with the group is the foundation of supporter life—and currently our only leverage to demand change—we aren't moving forward. Like I said before, boycotting is a whole different conversation.
I can't say I'm exactly thrilled about the new season, and I certainly don't want to exhaust myself dealing with the Tovari, NH-, or whatever some internet clown thinks. IT'S POINTLESS. It's endless. It's a loop. If you aren't 120% committed to something, it's impossible to know every single detail or nuance, regardless of which side you're on. But apparently, that doesn't stop people from judging, lecturing, or making suggestions... Just look inward, do what you can, fight your own battles, and let other groups handle their own business...

Tyler Jackson56 said:How can you say that didn't happen? We spent so much time fighting among ourselves—fans from the East and West constantly clashing over territory and scraps. Honestly, the only silver lining is that we’ve finally returned to a sense of brotherhood and unity. Everything from the past has been put behind us, and we’ve officially called a truce with FC.

Just like a few days ago, you’re putting out half-truths and taking things totally out of context. It makes it look like you're just blindly attacking anyone who showed up to the match, which is honestly pretty stupid.
When the decision was made to call for a boycott, everyone who considered themselves part of the BBB was expected to follow through. That meant leaving any banners with our group's branding at home. If anyone showed up with a sign featuring the name, there were rules about confiscating it—and if things got heated enough that physical force was needed, then that’s just how it went down. Honestly, I can't quite recall exactly how many times that actually happened or if it even occurred.
Regarding those stories about fans getting slapped for showing up to matches—from what I understand, that only happened when people tried to act like know-it-alls. It usually went down when someone felt the need to talk trash, swear, or push back against the Bad Boys. Even worse, they’d try to gloat during times when things were tense between the Bad Boys and the Club. That boycott was a radical move, really. It was meant to force changes within the organization and cut out Mamić's influence over certain group processes. Honestly, it was an incredibly uncomfortable situation, but I personally believe it was necessary at the time. You could write a whole dissertation on using boycotts as a tool for protest through the lens of the Bad Boys, including all the pros and cons, but I'll save that for another day.
The people I was clashing with back then—and even a year later—weren't actually fans. Honestly, some of them had a worse attitude than the most hardcore supporters you'll find today, if you look at it from the perspective of modern fan culture or the Ultras movement. Regardless of what you want to call it, we weren't fighting about whether or not to show up to matches. Anyone who was actually there, on either side of the line, knows exactly how things started brewing, how they escalated, and why things eventually reached a breaking point that could never be undone. There’s no need to get into the weeds or start calling people out by name. If someone actually has the guts and the will to talk, they can. But honestly, it’s a different story when people try to vent their frustrations through online bickering and stupid rhetorical questions. It feels like they're just trying to drag names, old events, and tragic stories into these pointless arguments just to publicly shame people or dwell on the past.
As far as the old FC goes, it’s dead and gone. That whole association was basically cooked up by the club itself, forcing together people who wouldn't have shared a conversation in any other universe. We're talking about total opposites—different mindsets, different ways of acting, different levels of loyalty, and enough old grudges to fill a stadium. But hey, money talks. Some joined just for the cash, some because they were struggling personally, some just wanted to rebel against the crowd, and others were loyal to Zdravko. The official line was that this group would revitalize us, strengthen our presence, and—as the slogan went—take down Mamić from the inside under the banner of "WE CARE ABOUT DINAMO, NOT POLITICS." The fact that the club itself organized and funded it tells you everything you need to know. If someone had come forward at seventeen and said, "Just leave us alone regarding Mamić and the elections," maybe we could have talked. But grouping everyone under one specific agenda? That spoke volumes. It lasted exactly as long as it was ever going to last. It couldn't work then, and it couldn't work back in 2013 or 2015. Eventually, people drifted away to do their own thing. Now, some of them still show up to matches, but they go with the same old crowds they used to run with before all this mess started.
There’s no such thing as brotherhood or unity here. If that unity you're talking about actually existed, Mamić wouldn't be standing there, nor would any of his little cronies. Within the BBB, there were way too many divisions, egos, and weird agendas that prevented the group from ever acting as one. Mamić exploited that, intentionally splitting us up just to keep his grip on power. AND THAT'S WHAT I RESENT THE MOST. Playing chess games with people's lives. He never understood anything beyond digging holes and making trouble. Unfortunately, there weren't enough strong personalities within the BBB to push back against him as a united front (some people actually openly enjoyed the twisted way the club was being run), and we're seeing the consequences of that today.
As for the FC... If you think those members of this non-existent FC are a major factor (which you clearly do, since you bring them up constantly), then they should probably show up at the North Stand and actually implement their vision for the BBB. They should clear out whoever is standing there right now, and then the matter would be settled. As long as there are people identifying with Mamić's messed-up constructs, there won't be any peace. It's one thing if someone personally likes Mamić and ends up venting about him, but if they favor him by undermining the group that stands against him—all while using the group's name—there will never be any normalization or peace.

casualwolf48 said:Give Pusa a break, man. You guys are a hundred times bigger liars than those Red Devils fans. That Lisbon match was the one time you could have actually crushed us. You had three whole days to make it happen. So where were you? We were just waiting, and then suddenly you’re out there hanging with that crowd right before the game, acting tough. Everything else is just noise. Honestly, it's frustrating when you keep attacking this guy who hasn't done anything wrong. Don't even get me started. You guys are just a bunch of dishonest myth-makers. That wasn't a small thing. It doesn't matter if he's a supporter or some street kid; we aren't going to jump him for no reason. I actually respect the guy. You should go ahead and keep making up your lies and fueling hatred just because of a rivalry.

With all due respect to everything you've done for America, the group, and the club, you're embarrassing yourself by posting like this on these forums. Aside from shaming yourself, you're shaming the whole group, just like most of the clowns who turn discussions into "my dad is tougher than your dad" or "we beat you guys easily in your own city" nonsense.

Don't do this to yourself. I'm telling you this because I know you and I respect what you've stood for. I'll say all this to your face next time I see you, and I mean it sincerely. I get it—this forum is a way for you to feel like you're still living that intense fan life you used to lead, which is harder to do now given how things have changed. You aren't the only one, and there's nothing wrong with that, but that's just the reality.

My comment isn't just about this one post. It's about the mountain of posts you leave on various forums that don't align with reality and give a bad impression of a team that actually thinks straight and stays loyal.

Indirectly, you're dragging the group down and making yourself look like an internet clown. I'm not trying to insult you, but you need to get back to reality. If you don't want to, that's on you... but really think about how your typing affects people who are much more invested in this than you are. Everyone will respect what you achieved in the past, but no one active in the scene wants to deal with your online nonsense. If you find that hard to grasp, that's not my problem.

Until we hang out in person... all the best.

Tyler Jackson5 said:You don't get it—people can't even ask what the difference is between groups without being labeled an "agent" immediately. The very people who were being attacked and called out are back in the stands today. When we go to Turkey, everyone begs for a truce just to keep the numbers even. But when we head to the Czech Republic, there’s no truce because one side outnumbers the other twenty to one. And if you ask the front office who they're actually at war with, or why the older guys who started all this aren't leading the charge instead of sending kids to fight their battles, you get nothing. So, my friend, you're never going to get honest answers to a lot of questions.

The fundamental issue here is that everything happens online. In these digital spaces, identities are rarely known, and having a real identity is crucial for any serious discussion. It dictates how much weight people give to your words and how much credibility you actually have. Unfortunately, a huge amount of insults, lies, and weird interpretations stem from debates that basically boil down to anonymous people shouting at each other.

It isn't true that people are automatically branded as agents just for asking questions, but some people definitely act like that, and it's hard to disprove. Otherwise, terms like "agents" or "mercenaries" (specifically regarding BBB) are just colloquial ways to describe the crew that used to follow Mamić's lead even when they shouldn't have. It’s an undeniable fact that the club provided financial backing to people who went against the majority—those who opposed Mamić. The club has even admitted this in certain instances, and it was clearly visible in various donation reports and similar documentation.

Regarding Turkey... you're talking nonsense and wondering why the admin is giving you a hard time (and while I'm against banning people, I'm definitely in favor of locking threads). Nobody was begging for a truce. Instead, certain people decided long before that trip to Turkey to suggest a way of interacting that wouldn't trigger constant infighting. The basic rule was that anyone working against the majority or Mamić shouldn't interfere with the group's activities in any way. If they want to go to games, they can go, but they stay out of the North Stand and out of the away section.
Establishing that kind of relationship is incredibly difficult, especially after internal conflicts—as we saw in Belgium and a few other times—but sometimes, it actually works.

The situation in the Czech Republic is simple if you actually care to understand it. BBB stays in the away section, and those tickets belong to BBB and other Dinamo fans. Pretending to be clueless about why a specific group wasn't allowed on the stand is just unnecessary. If a problematic group had entered the away section, the match wouldn't have finished, regardless of who ended up getting beat up. In Plzeň, nobody was attacking anyone, nor was there a massive group of 20x more people looking for a fight; things just escalated in front of the stands over ticket issues. BBB ended up short on a portion of the tickets because of people who worked against them, so it wasn't acceptable for those same people to sit in the BBB section. Neither the home club nor Dinamo could find a solution for this, so those people were essentially pushed out and had to go their own way.

As for your claim that you won't get answers from leadership about who they are fighting with—again, you're missing the point. If you had shown up to the stands, or even just stood outside and talked to the people you actually need to talk to, you would have gotten an answer. But as usual, you play the fool on a forum and expect a profound response.
If someone acts against the group, the assumption is that they will eventually clash with it. You can call it a war (though today's situation is nowhere near an actual war), a battle, or whatever you want, but it’s a reality, regardless of who is clashing.

A lot of things could have been fixed or brought back to a normal level a long time ago. But certain moves—like stealing banners, starting that fan club back in 2013 just to spite everyone with the help of the front office, or parading around with those fighter clubs and other recent nonsense—were blocked by people whose egos simply won't let them step aside.

Every single time there was an attempt to take a step forward, some self-proclaimed "legend" of the stands would show up and, backed by people within the organization, make life miserable for the group. What the last few years have shown is that because of a few individuals constantly sucking up to Mamić, they screwed over both the people who followed suit and those who stayed loyal to their friends and the group instead. It just kept cycling through month after month, from one mess to the next, until we hit a point where some people can never come back to the stands or see any kind of normalization.

I don't write much because it tends to drain my time and my nerves, but I’m always open to a real conversation, face-to-face, with whoever needs it. Honestly, it would be better if we talked about this in person. Looking at your post, it seems like you've picked up a lot of wrong info and you're trying to frame rhetorical questions as absolute facts, but I don't think that's going to work. Mainly because it feels like you have a grudge against the current people in the stands; you don't feel like part of us, so you'd rather fight the whole crowd than accept how things actually are right now.

If I'm wrong, then show up to the stands, get involved, and actually work to change things for the better. You aren't going to accomplish anything through a forum, and you certainly won't heal your frustrations and complexes that way—just like I can't change the minds of the internet clowns (BBB, idiots, whatever...) even with a hundred solid arguments and quality posts. I guess when it doesn't work, it just doesn't work...

Until the next post...

Walter Morris28 said:For the last two seasons, we’ve always chipped in for those who couldn't make it and traveled together as a group to every away game. Then you keyboard warriors come along and act like we're just mercenaries. This is the exact sense of community you guys constantly brag about and claim to value. Honestly, me and my friends are just sitting here laughing at how these people call us sellouts.

We aren't showing up for Futsal or traveling to away games anymore. Why should we sacrifice our time for a group that doesn't care about us and spends all its energy labeling us mercenaries for trying to support Real Madrid? And yet, you're the same people who stand shoulder to shoulder with me claiming that Jerry Jones is the Dallas Cowboys—that he *is* the club.

There won't even be 200 of you left, because people realized a long time ago that this whole situation is a total mess and nobody is truly in the right.

When exactly did the group declare you a mercenary? At some official meeting? Did someone from leadership or someone else in the stands come up to your face and tell you that you were a sellout or something? Saying that nobody cares isn't true; don't generalize like that. You're hiding behind a screen, arguing with people behind other screens, and calling that an attack from the group. If someone asked what Real Madrid represents, you could get a hundred different answers today. Was it really that hard to just grab your friends and your crew yesterday, walk over to the guy with the megaphone and the crowd around him, and actually talk? Just tell him what's bothering you or share your idea... invite them to your neighborhood, your city, whatever...

boldtiger7 said:Just lock this thread for a few days. After they lost to Arsenal, these idiots finally got some wingers and now they're back to poking the bear again...

It’s funny how some people are just waiting for the club to slip up because they want Mamić to fail, while others are praying for success just because they hate our story... that's just the reality of it.

This shouldn't just be locked for a few days; it should stay closed forever. I honestly wonder if people would actually respect it if the board decided it was in the group's best interest to shut down the forum entirely. Personally, I don't need this place—I'm just a casual fan anyway.

A little honesty, some backbone, and a bit of real grit could work miracles for this group.

See you at the stadium... tururururu

steelseal10 said:Look, man, I would never dream of disrespecting this leadership. These guys are solid; they take more risks than anyone else in this group. But honestly, some of our recent moves feel like we're just scoring own goals. I really hope everything works out in the end.

I'm no legend. Honestly, "legend" isn't even a word used in this group anymore. In this community, if you actually try to live by any kind of principle or do anything right, you just end up being labeled a traitor, an idiot, or a liar. (God rest their souls).

Jonathan Cooper6 said:My apologies to any sensitive guys who felt insulted... it won't happen again, at least not on this forum.

The only one here feeling insulted is you. Look, I get being frustrated, but I'm not about calling people names over the internet. If you have an issue, come down to NYC and handle it face-to-face, or go settle it some other way. The web isn't the place for that kind of stuff.

steelseal10 said:Legend, I would never dream of disrespecting this leadership. These guys are genuinely solid, and they’re taking more risks than anyone else in the group. But honestly, some of our recent moves feel like we're just scoring own goals. I really hope everything works out in the end.

Which moves specifically? If you could walk up to them tomorrow and offer a suggestion or some actual help, go for it... but in a situation like this, there are no winning moves. It's just choosing between bad options and slightly less bad ones. Finding that middle ground is an art form.