Bad Boys

Matthew Martinez64 said:Are you actually kidding me right now?
Is this really how you want to handle things here? Honestly, if you're looking for someone to blame, you should probably find someone else to target, because I can promise you that nobody is going to come after you.

Look, man, do you honestly think I’m trying to settle some kind of score here? And please, don't try to turn this around on me, because I’m pretty sure that over the last decade, I’ve contributed more to this community than about 80 percent of the people hanging out on this forum.

steelseal10 said:I would much rather stand with 100 honest souls than a thousand rats. 😉 If you aren't standing with us, then you're either a complete sellout or someone who’s been bought under the table. Just so you know, those paid shills managed to flip at least another 100 people over to their side yesterday. But hey, keep playing the role of Al Capone and making fun of everyone. You'll get what's coming to you when reality finally hits you right in the face.

And just how exactly did they manage to recruit 100 people?

I honestly find myself coming back to the same point: this leadership team has been the most sincere group we've had since the beginning, and I truly believe these kids are absolute legends—total powerhouses who deserve every bit of respect. But, I suppose something eventually has to change, 😉

Jonathan Cooper6 said:Respect, T, I really do, but you're off base on this last part. Yeah, the boss killed us, sure, but we basically did it to ourselves. Look at the hypocrisy—the stadium is packed, everyone's screaming when we play someone like Hajduk, but suddenly nobody cares anymore? What changed? If the big man falls, what then? You guys planning on purging everyone who stood by him while he was president? Is that even realistic? And if not, why stop hating Dynamo now? Are we just gonna start loving them once the boss is gone? Our loyalty is way too shaky. I don't buy that he's the sole reason we're sinking; we're driving the bus into the ditch. It’s like people cheering a goal but being too scared to actually celebrate. I’m a 260-pound guy, I don't owe anyone an apology for how I live. Look, everyone messes up, but running full speed into a brick wall is just insanity. It feels like we’ve already accepted defeat and we're just looking for a flashy way to die. I'm not down for that. I won't accept Dynamo being Mamich's private playground while Futsal gets left behind. Props to the Futsal crew, but they aren't even 0.1% of what Dynamo means to most of us. People show up for the group, for the lifestyle, not to obsess over Futsal. We need a massive pivot because we're heading for a cliff. You can see it in the numbers—every single sub-group is down at least 50% from last year. Every one. We don't even have a clubhouse for the BBB in Indy. I've got $3,000 ready to push the group forward, but where does it go? To fines? Am I supposed to pay people's penalties just because they helped me collect? We don't have a master plan, we're just pushing until we hit something. If anyone thinks I'm on the take, hit my DMs.

Fair enough, man, but you didn't actually disprove my point: a ton of people just refuse to cheer for Hell. They saw the truth—that Dynamo has been turned into Mamich's personal Hell at every level, especially the money side. Now the FBI has stepped in with actual proof. So we were right all along, just like back in the 90s when we knew this wasn't America, it was just Dynamo. Instead of getting our act together lately, it’s just been pure negativity. Sure, numbers are dropping, and there's a reason for that. But to me, it's less about the group leaders and more about this vibe of total defeatism eating us alive from the inside. Then again, you can't really separate the two when the club feels lost.

Kyle Campbell4 said:I wonder how they managed to gather a hundred people like that?

I mean, seeing the crowd cheering them on up in the North stands yesterday... I honestly feel like at least ten percent of those folks will probably still be following them to games. To be honest, I really couldn't care less about how many mercenaries are involved, though I suppose it might weigh on their souls in some way.

It all sounds wonderful in theory, doesn't it? Everyone is talking about heading back North tomorrow, claiming there will be two thousand of us ready to face off against the Hajduk or Inter, but we all know how that plays out. Where was this sudden surge of enthusiasm when we were traveling East and barely three hundred people showed up? It’s the same old story. We claim we'll return with two thousand supporters next time, only for blacklists and bans to sideline a few hundred, leaving us with the exact same crowd we have right now a month from now.
I would be the first person to sign on to returning to our home stadium if we could actually maintain a consistent turnout, but let's be realistic: eventually, the group will just find new excuses and trivial nonsense to justify staying home.

steelseal10 said:What was with that crowd of people causing chaos in the North stands yesterday? And honestly, I’m convinced at least ten percent of them will still be showing up to games right alongside them. Look, I really couldn't care less how many mercenaries they hire. It’s just bad for their soul
.

They’ll have another chance to act out this coming weekend against Indianapolis.

So decisions aren't being made on this forum... where are they happening then? In some fan club that doesn't exist, or at a supporters' stand where nobody actually in charge shows up? Look, I get it—everyone messes up. And let’s be real, I’ve been part of the mess myself; I haven't always agreed with things, but I've been here for years. If I could just throw cash at these people to fix it, I would—but man, if we keep going like this, there'll be more protesters than actual fans by next season. You guys act like you're living in some perfect utopia where everything is sunshine and rainbows... meanwhile, our cheering is basically stuck in middle school. We're out here acting like idiots, singing songs about how much we "love" Mamich's leadership—yeah, that's the anthem we're using to celebrate ourselves, along with all that other nonsense. It’s obvious people don't identify with Dynamo as it stands today, but hating the club just because of Mamich? That’s like hating a woman just because her dad is a jerk. You all swear you love this club, then turn around and joke about hating it an hour later. I get the disconnect, but half the stands cheering when Hajduk scores? That’s a bit much, isn't it? You want elections? Fine, prove it. Who here is actually a 5G-level Dynamo member? Go ahead, write it down. Not many of us, right? So why call for elections where you won't even have a vote? Do you honestly think we make up the majority of those 6 million members? Which one of us has been a member the longest? We say we want elections, but what happens if we actually lose them? If you think joining the club is the way to gain mass influence, you're dreaming—three small towns in the Midwest have more people than we could ever recruit. Seriously, someone explain this to me. I'm just asking, but I get the feeling a lot of people are perfectly happy letting things stay exactly this broken. What does Mamich get out of having 40 flares at the big game? How much is the fine $3333 for the club? Because that's probably less than what this guy who got detained is going to end up paying...

boldtiger7 said:It sounds great when you guys talk about heading back North tomorrow with 2,000 people ready to take on Hajduk or Inter—but let's be real, it’s not happening. Where was everyone when we headed East and only had 300 show up again? It’s the same old story: "we'll bring 2,000 next time," then the blacklists and bans kick in, and a month later, we're back to the same small crowd.
I’d be the first one to sign off on returning to our home turf if we could actually guarantee steady numbers—but let's face it, the crew will always find some new excuse or stupid reason to skip out.

I'm with you—it’s totally possible... though from what I hear, those old blacklists from Indianapolis and everywhere else aren't really a thing anymore. But what’s the point of staying away? Every away game gets smaller and smaller, yet we just sit here—Scott Jones9, we're doing nothing. If only we could actually pull off a project, like beautifying the city or hitting ten new pieces of graffiti—something, anything. We aren't doing anything besides making merch. We don't even talk about organized actions here; we just talk about how we're still the true BBB fans, not those guys up North... so I'm asking you, what's the move when the elections hit next month? What can we even do? Even if he wins... then what? They'll just throw "one man, one vote" in our faces—the same thing we argue about constantly. A couple of years ago, we actually had concrete plans and real action, but now? This whole futsal thing isn't even a fight against him—it's just a fight to save the group, and honestly, it doesn't bother Mamich at all. He couldn't care less. I just don't get it... like I said, I was involved in almost everything even when I disagreed with half of it, but where do we go from here?

steelseal10 said:I witnessed the sheer volume of people following them around on the north side yesterday, and I am absolutely certain that at least ten percent of those individuals will continue to follow them to future matches. Frankly, I could not care less how many mercenaries are involved; this behavior is fundamentally corrupting their very souls.

They were cheering only when there were specific chants occurring; whenever it came time to actually sing the songs, only about fifty of them were truly engaged. People showed up yesterday simply because they were handed a free ticket or grabbed a cheap bundle since it was the most affordable seating available. Primarily, these are mere glory hunters who only showed up because of the Champions League. In terms of actual numbers, there aren't even close to being as many of them at the stadium as there are Oly fans.
Listen, guys, the internet is not the place for internal bickering. This little controversy you are having has already been exploited, and now we see new profiles popping up pretending to be concerned. You should call a meeting and have every group state HONESTLY what they think.
This is how ugly the whole situation looks. There is absolutely nothing left of the unity we had at the beginning of this journey.
Some people do not view this as a true supporters' club and simply do not care; others clearly caught the scent of the Champions League and wanted to join the bandwagon; a third group wants everything to return to the way it used to be. Just last night at the pub, I was holding a sticker that basically said "there is no compromise," but it seems fewer and fewer people actually believe in that sentiment.
Regardless of the circumstances, this is not the venue for this discussion. Meet up in person and tell one another exactly what is on your minds.

Jonathan Cooper6 said:I'm with you there, could be... though from what I hear, those old blacklists from Indianapolis and stuff don't even exist anymore...

Nah, wrong. I was on a blacklist way before anything happened in Indianapolis. And trust me, they'd be hyping them up for Europe like crazy right now if they wanted to.

Agree on the rest, but we don't need some group leader's permission to spray ten pieces of graffiti.

Jonathan Cooper6 said:I'm with you, that could be it... though from what I hear, those old blacklists out of Indianapolis and everywhere else don't even exist anymore. But honestly, what's the point if we don't show up? Every away game feels smaller than the last, every single one. We aren't doing anything, Scott Jones9. At least let us do something—I don't know, some damn project, beautify downtown, paint ten murals, something. We just sit here making merch. We don't talk about actual movements here; we talk about things just to prove we're still Bad Boys fans and not those guys from the North stands. I'm asking you all: what is the leader supposed to say when elections roll around next month? What can we actually do? He wins the election... then what? They'll just shove "one man, one vote" down our throats, the very thing we argue about constantly. A couple of years ago, we had concrete plans and real action. Now? This isn't just some futsal match against him; it's a fight to save the group. But does it even hurt Mamich's? Does he even care? I just don't get it...Like I said, I've been involved in almost everything even when I disagreed with half of it, but where do we go from here?

Yeah, exactly.

If you didn't have anything to say, you wouldn't be posting here.

steelseal10 said:I’m telling you again—this leadership is easily the most honest we’ve had since this group first started. These kids are absolute legends—real heavy hitters—and honestly, hats off to them. But still... something's gotta give. 😉

Exactly—that’s the point. It feels like anyone who speaks up is immediately labeled a sellout, while our actual presence at the games just keeps shrinking. Look, everyone needs to chill—you all know damn well who the real mercenaries are. Half of you were right there with us back in the day, and some of you are just trolls on this board. I’ve been around here for over ten years, and half of you actually know me in real life. The real issue? When you ask people if they’re coming to the game, they just shrug and say they can't be bothered. It’s the same crowd that dealt with bans and blacklists—they just don't see any fight left in it anymore. People are letting these bans and penalties slide, basically letting these corporate suits screw us over just because we won't fall in line. Honestly, I couldn't care less about those useless hacks. Does anyone actually have a plan for what comes next? Anything at all? There are guys here willing to chip in cash and stuff, but for what? Am I supposed to pay off someone's fine because they got their Benz impounded in Europe? It's insane—I'm out here driving 8,000 miles just to visit family and friends, and this is the state of things.

The situation is essentially such that there isn't much room for maneuver. Whether people want to admit it or not, we are more on the verge of collapse than anything else. Every possible avenue has been explored, yet here we are, effectively running headfirst into a brick wall. Occasionally, the sheer lack of progress frustrates me, but realistically, what is there left to do? If anyone actually has a viable solution, please, feel free to propose it; I am certain everyone would be eager to listen. For now, futsal is all we have to hold onto—at least for me. As far as the main club goes, I couldn't care less; honestly, having the futsal side gives me just enough of a reason to remember what it actually feels like to belong to a club community.

steelseal10, you sound like you're writing everything with nothing but good intentions 👍... but 😁 let’s get real for a second about the future of this group if we actually moved back to Maksimir... Honestly, you don't even need to think about it. Just look at what happened not too long ago and it's crystal clear. I'm talking specifically about that period right after the boycott... attendance was okay for a few games, then it just tanked constantly. By the end, there were barely 150 people left in the east end. And you can't blame anyone who walked away in the meantime, because the whole thing became unbearable. Every single time, there was a higher chance of ending up in a jail cell than making it home safe... remember when they were arresting people just for sitting in the wrong seat? What are we even talking about here??
And you really think it wouldn't be the exact same scenario if we tried again?? I'm certain it would...
And then what??

And I'm sure you'll agree that it's damn hard going to games without actually rooting for your own club... but our situation has been stuck like this for a long time. Half the crowd is rooting against us, and the other half just doesn't give a damn about the score. I'm the first one to show up for Dynamo just because of the group... and I'll admit, it doesn't exactly add to my pride. It's a total disaster that my loyalty lies with the group over the club, but that's the reality right now and screw it...

One more thing... I agree that futsal doesn't put any pressure on Mamich, but hell, even having 150 people in the north or east stands wouldn't mean anything in terms of pressure...
And that damn futsal you guys find so annoying shouldn't even be viewed as a major factor in fighting Mamich. It's just a place where people can hang out normally, mess around, grab a drink, and cheer without being harassed by the cops... and it's definitely a place where kids can get hooked on the supporter culture, which means the group actually has a future...
At the end of the day, the players have more than earned their support through how they've behaved so far...

Sorry to bother you...

casualmarlin27 said:One more thing... I get that futsal doesn't put any actual pressure on Mamich, but honestly, even having 150 people out in the North Stand wouldn't mean anything in terms of leverage...
And this damn futsal game you guys are complaining about shouldn't even be viewed as a tool to fight Mamich. It’s just a spot where people can hang out normally, mess around, grab a drink, and cheer without getting harassed by the cops... and it's definitely a place where kids can get hooked on the fan culture, which means the group actually has a future...
At the end of the day, the players have more than earned our support based on how they've acted so far...

Sorry for being a pain...

Exactly that, signed and delivered. 👍

If someone thinks futsal is some kind of tactical pressure move, then they don't understand why we show up to Dynamo games in the first place.

Just like how back in the 90s, the local pro basketball scene helped keep the BBB alive, futsal today helps the BBB survive through regular hangouts, joking around, and just being fans.

BTW... at the end of the day, it's all about the money. Old saying, right?

Dynamo makes it into Europe next spring, and the big boss—and his brother too—will be sitting there watching the match on their brand-new TVs over in Remetincu.

If you people actually had any backbone or true passion for this team, you wouldn't be dodging these discussions over there. You should be diving into them right here, engaging with the community on this clever little forum instead of acting like cowards. Honestly, you pathetic lot. Go ahead and head off to the Champions League festivities then; clearly, it just eats you alive that you aren't part of the big party while everyone else is out enjoying the spectacle. Just admit it—to yourselves and to the 45 of us who haven't abandoned ship yet.

Jonathan Cooper6 said:As if decisions aren't being made on this forum... then where are they happening? In some association that doesn't exist, or at a stadium where nobody capable of making such calls actually shows up? Like I said, it is human to make mistakes, and let’s be clear, I have been part of the very things I am critiquing. I haven't agreed with everything for years, but I am here whenever I can be. It isn't about throwing money at people—it's about the people themselves. Honestly, by next year's big game, there will be more protesters than fans left. You all act as if you live in some utopia where everything is perfect and everyone is righteous. Our cheering is basically at an eighth-grade level: we drink cheap beer, smoke weed, and our favorite anthem is just praising a headless boss. That’s the song we sing to create our own euphoria, along with those other ridiculous chants. I understand that people don't identify with the current state of Dynamo, but hating the club just because of Mamich's influence? Do you hate a woman just because her father is someone you despise? Everyone swears eternal love for the club, yet you laugh about hating it every other hour. I get the lack of identification, but half the stands cheering when Hajduk scores is a bit much, isn't it? We are calling for elections? Fine, let's see who here is actually a long-term member. Go ahead, write it down. Certainly not Dumdum, so why are you demanding elections where you won't even have a vote? Do you truly believe that out of six million members, we hold the majority? Who has been a member the longest? We want elections, but what happens if we actually lose them? If you think joining the club will give us mass numbers, you are mistaken; three small towns in the Midwest would outnumber us easily. Truly, I am just asking for clarification, and I say this because I feel—as do many others—that some people are quite happy with the status quo. What does Mamich's display of forty flares at the big game represent? How heavy is the fine $3333 for the club? Because that's about how much this guy who was detained is going to cost us.

You know perfectly well that the association exists, and I am deeply convinced you are aware of exactly how those decisions are reached.
I don't understand how the signatures collected during the "For Our Dynamo" initiative were forgotten so quickly.

Seriously, just leave indoor soccer alone. There’s an insane amount of actual hard work and genuine heart poured into this project—it’s honestly kind of low, questioning it like this. Especially when you're just sitting there on your couch, judging from the sidelines.

Jonathan Cooper6 said:God damn it... we aren't even doing anything.

BtBB, man, you really went ahead and canonized defeatism as your final stance, didn't you? Look, I'm not in charge of anyone and I'm certainly not obligated to weigh in—honestly, by custom, I probably shouldn't even be typing this—but:
- Even I know there actually EXISTS a "main" organization, and it’s at a specific physical location where you always find plenty of relevant people. You can always show up, ask questions, and eventually work out a meeting with whoever you want regarding your ideas. So, saying there isn't one is just plain wrong. What, does it only count if there's a bar serving drinks?
- It is crystal clear that whatever is crawling around Maksimir is NOT Dynamo, and that whole analogy about your girlfriend being replaced is totally off base. The point is that your actual girlfriend was swapped out for some monster that's just pretending to be her. It's like if your country was occupied by, say, a rogue militia, and they just left the name "USA" hanging there and expected you to salute the flag. You don't salute a state like that; you don't support it at all. Even if a regime is super successful, builds massive highways, and launches people into orbit, those things aren't enough of a reason to overlook pure evil.
EVEN IF you weren't being shut out from hundreds of important people and facing all this repression (which, let's be real, a lot of people mock while acting like it doesn't affect anything), you still DON'T allow yourself to be used as window dressing for Kidnappers, especially if they're just waiting for your obedient little arrival to say, "See? Everything is fine." Instead, you fight for the real, true, and legitimate nation. You do it through whatever means you can, even if it costs you, just to avoid being a mindless puppet for the Kidnappers.
I'm not against anyone going to the stadium, but some groups of people seriously need to understand why they are there and whose interests they are actually serving.
YES, it’s a much bigger loss than having a mass of people who "don't want to get involved," and it’s way more fuel for the occupier when you just bow your head and cheer because "well, it's still our Dynamo," compared to all the repression and the resulting drastic selection—which, hey, hasn't any guerrilla struggle ever worked differently?—of the most persistent souls currently happening.
In the history of Dynamo fans, there have been hundreds of times where huge crowds just wandered aimlessly, only caring about grabbing a beer and causing a little ruckus in the name of this vague concept called "Dynamo." What good is a crowd like that to you? What would you even do with them? How is that supposed to help heal Dynamo? What's your actual plan?
If you say, "that's just how it's always been," I'll tell you how it looks to the kids today: they don't seem ready to be just another mindless generation that comes along, passes through, gets wasted, and breaks a few things for fun. They have a legitimate right to that rejection they've imposed on themselves, and even to radicalism.
- It is legitimate, and obviously, it's okay to cheer against what is currently being called "Dynamo"—and I'm not stopping anyone from enjoying that. In fact, doing the first thing is almost more natural, just so you don't forget what the actual goal is.
Whether it's idealistic or not.
If you're so desperate to get involved and full of all this enthusiasm, why wouldn't you rather help the kids, man? Even if it's just a tiny fraction of helping them turn their utopia into something real, instead of just offering them dry criticism and suggesting the solution(?) is a mass of people cheering for "Dynamo" and everything will just fix itself?