Posts by Jonathan Hayes76

wiredpilot28 said:I didn't come to an American forum to preach morality about using axes and knives, nor did I come here to draw comparisons between your fans and ours based on a single video clip or one isolated incident.

Maybe some of these cases aren't entirely true, or they're only half-true at best, but I still don't get why you're even here—trying to lecture us by claiming all of this is just fiction or a product of sensationalist journalism.
Do you honestly think we’re idiots? Or do you think Mexico is on another continent, somehow making your fan culture incomprehensible to anyone who actually pays attention?
Why don't you apply that same logic to yourselves? Why don't you stop commenting on what's happening in other stadiums based solely on what you read or hear? Like recently, when you jumped to the conclusion—God knows from what basis—that only a fraction of the fans support Mamić... Or can you actually recognize the vibe of a crowd, even roughly, since you're a fan too?

You guys admitted it yourselves: there's a massive problem with people using weapons to stab and maim others. That deserves respect, especially because over here in the States, people are mostly burying their heads in the sand, refusing to admit we aren't much different from you. You're talking about the issue openly and showing on your own stands that you're aware of it... nobody made that up.

http://delije-caffe.net/gal...ac/delije1.jpg

You clearly didn't read my first point with any actual comprehension. You responded with whatever weirdly twisted logic you felt like using, so I won't even bother replying to that. I don't have the luxury of being "polite" to you the way you try to be to me. I guess that's just a difference in civilization.

And then you claimed the difference is that in Mexico, there's enough awareness that people actually revolt or try to fight against bad things. You said it in such a tone that despite you using the word "respect," it still comes off as something negative.
Look, just pull your heads out of the sand. What's so controversial about that? Even if you personally lack influence, there are plenty of people in the media and online who actually have it.

Or maybe you're just feeling a bit rattled because you can't hide how much everything looks like the very thing you spend your entire life spitting on and hating. From the local scene to your social circles and even the clubs... if it's easier for you, just project everything bad about your own world onto Mexicans. If that's how you chose to interpret it, fine.

We’ve seen this script play out a thousand times before. Experience tells me the tension just scales up—it starts at the final whistle, ramps up during overtime, and by the time you hit a penalty shootout, things get ugly fast. It all builds through this mounting hostility, where everyone's ego gets artificially inflated, leading to instant labeling, pigeonholing, and public condemnation of everyone involved.
Today, I’m looking at my own neighbors—people who used to be buddies in the stands, folks we actually shared space, time, and memories with. These are people I would have stood up for in a heartbeat if the last decade or so hadn't been filled with this kind of madness. Now, you’ve got some showing up with tear gas, others with axes or hammers, but they all share that same genuine hatred in their eyes as they head into extra time.
What the hell is waiting for someone who wasn't even part of the crowd? Someone who never shared a sandwich on the train or grabbed a beer outside the stadium with the Bad Boys? Or worse, what happens to someone who isn't even from here and whom you naturally can't stand?
Fix this however you think you can. But don't expect some outsider to come in and tell you how to handle your own business; they don't know the stakes, and following their lead won't lead to anything good. Playing hero here is as dangerous as being an accomplice to a future assault or murder. Honestly, it feels like you guys are even more naive than the people around here if you haven't realized when it's time to change tactics. You don't even seem to grasp where you are or the direction this trajectory is taking us.

James Smith48 and Bradley Myers15.
Look, I probably shouldn't have made the comparison, but I honestly didn't know any other way to get my point across.
There’s filth everywhere, but the difference is that over in Mexico, people actually fight against it. They take the hits and they endure it; they’re willing to sacrifice themselves and just stay silent. To me, it’s laughable that you guys—who abandoned the club by withdrawing support, who run these shady, money-hungry groups, who use everything from cold weapons to firearms, and who stood behind political slogans or gave direct support to specific parties—actually have the nerve to demand that people stay quiet on certain topics, as if they don't have the right to speak up.
Forget all the internet spin and just remember this once and for all: the Gospoda Cigan crowd is a hundred times cleaner than any group in America. You can see it with the naked eye, and no amount of weeping like a child is going to change that fact. And I’m not saying this as a member of their group or on their behalf. Your issue is that you simply don't know the facts, and you think the problems surrounding your club are bigger or more criminal than what goes on with, say, OFK Belgrade.
People call the Grobari an agency... yet the internal conflicts and issues you’ve never even experienced don't convince you that anyone is fighting against the forces of darkness. But unlike you, people here don't whine quite as much, and they certainly don't give up the fight.
And yeah, every single one of the names I mentioned is wealthier and more influential than your Herzegovinian loudmouth. Some of them have had offices raided, whereas that guy of yours is seen as someone fully cooperative—it’s just the partners that keep changing. You guys should be the last ones jumping to claim repression, only to turn around and protest statistics that prove you wrong. I wouldn't even be reading this if you weren't constantly complaining.
No matter how much you cry about it, another truth is that you guys have enough drama on your entire scene in a year to match one intense derby over here. I won't even get into the intensity of those clashes; you already know the deal.

analogheron19, the key to avoiding all this is believing that you can never hand your club over to anyone else. It wouldn't even be an issue if the major powers tried to bury us all with bombs. What can you do then? You just push your own story and deal with the fallout. But letting some Neanderthal barge into your own home and dictate terms... that’s dirty business, and it leads nowhere.

Look, you can barely count the UEFA sanctions on one hand this season. And sure, you obviously can't just go out and buy credentials from Mexico or whatever, but everyone wants to play the victim in their own little way. Let me ask you something: has anyone here actually spent half a decade or a full decade behind bars just for being part of a brawl, or because the cops shot someone point-blank? Do you even remember when fans were literally flying over stadium fences that were collapsing? The point is, once the system decides you're the enemy, it will try to crush you as hard as it possibly can.
They deploy armored vehicles in places like Chicago too, when hundreds of cops get injured out of a force of thousands on the street. But apparently, that doesn't matter to certain people who feel the need to claim there was some government conspiracy or whatever nonsense Menthol is cooking up just to make his specific group look better. Honestly, none of that is even half as bad as when the police snatch a fan, slash their ears with a knife, stab them in the thigh, and toss them out—or when you end up serving more time for a street fight than someone else does for actual terrorism.

YOU WERE WEAK. Mamić wasn't stronger, richer, or more influential than any of those guys I just mentioned. He simply didn't have any real opposition. You can see that clearly by the fact that you brought up Valsimot; those guys fought tooth and nail to maintain control over their own club. That’s the foundation, and getting there required actual sacrifice and guts.
I wish more people would actually expand on this, explain things, provide documentation, and show they actually have something worth saying to an audience.
Some situations are worse in your case, and some are worse in ours, and you can't argue against that using common sense. The point is that the subculture has to endure it, but you guys have already started making excuses for yourselves. It’s as if your scene is somehow "healthier" just because you emphasize, exaggerate, or lie about details involving Mexican or other groups.

The fact that ten different people are jumping in to deny what are straight-up facts only proves that they know exactly what's going on.
It's just like this hysteria whenever Our Hajduk is mentioned. For some reason, every single one of these clowns would rather hear someone insult their mother than hear the name of this organization, and we all know exactly why. But hey, let's just keep talking about irrelevant nonsense instead, right?

analogheron19 said:Jonathan Hayes76,
I’m only going to touch on one specific part of this whole repressive mess: the crackdown on our trips to play overseas.
For years now, our club has been playing dirty behind our backs. They’ve been sending these formal letters to the home teams and the local police, basically claiming that anyone traveling without being part of their organized groups isn't actually a real fan. Instead, they paint us as nothing more than armed criminals whose only goal is to cause chaos, start fires, destroy property, or worse. It's a complete smear campaign against the actual supporters.
For years, they’ve been rolling out special measures specifically designed to keep us away. We’re talking about court orders banning us from entering Paris, or that time they literally declared a state of emergency in Eindhoven—the first time since World War II—just to make sure any American citizens were legally barred from the entire district unless they were part of an official club delegation. Then there was the ban on Americans entering Albania on match days, or that ridiculous situation in Luxembourg where they actually deployed armored fighting vehicles just to "protect" the locals from the supposed barbarians coming out of Chicago. During those away trips, we were effectively living outside the law. We were treated like nothing more than hunted prey, being arrested, fined, and deported by a joint force of local police and our own cops, acting like we were some kind of terrorists. It happened without exception. For years, people sacrificed everything. They poured their time, their hard-earned money, and their very health into this. They risked their jobs and their families just to show up, refusing to back down. They went everywhere on foot, fully aware that the odds of actually making it into the stadium were one in a thousand.
If anyone can point me toward a single comparable example in the world of football, I’m done. Seriously. I’ll walk away from this place, shut down this forum, and quit the thing I love most in this life—being a fan. Consider it my final ultimatum.

Thanks for getting back to me.
Maybe it’s impossible to make an apples-to-apples comparison because no two situations are ever truly identical. All I’ll say is that those guys have a massive headache when dealing with UEFA, and that isn't something you can just brush off. They’ve been kicked out of European competitions and slapped with penalties before—and if my gut is right, most of that happened because the club simply can't distance itself from the Delije. There’s a level of outside influence on the club that stems directly from that constant struggle.
Maybe you don't realize this, but those Red Star fanatics have somehow managed to exert influence over both the government and the major power players in this country. Honestly, how naive can you be? Thinking that little skirmishes against guys like Danforth, Spasojevic, or even someone like Koch are actually going to change anything... we’re talking about a list of billionaires and corporate titans here. It’s the same story with the politicians—people like Gašić and Vesić—and then you have these "legends" who aren't worth much, just puppets being implemented into organizations like Mamić was into Dinamo. Do yourself a favor and actually look into what these people have done and what they intended to do. Once you see how much actual power they wield, you'll realize how delusional these fights really are.
Just thinking back to last season, I recall those guys having three different European away games banned—including that trip to Paris you mentioned, though we both saw how much of a disaster that turned out to be. Two years ago, it was like they were putting up "wet floor" signs all over the city just to warn people about certain groups arriving, or posting notices that shops had to shut down because of them. Honestly, do you really think there’s any place where those people show up without the local police rolling out their absolute best tactics? Do you honestly believe they aren't being arrested, fined, or deported at a rate similar to the Bad Boys? I couldn't say for sure, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Back in the early days, they handed out something like 190 bans right off the bat and just kept on rolling. Sure, they fell behind schedule because of it, but it was worth it to prove that all the stuff you guys keep claiming is "untouchable" actually carries consequences here. You really have no idea how deep this goes. At one point, even posting a flag was strictly forbidden, people were getting flagged for verbal offenses, and there were even attempts to use the Supreme Court to shut down specific groups entirely. It’s absolute madness. Honestly, you could go check the archives yourself—or ask a hundred other people—to verify everything I'm saying, and you'd find I'm not even scratching the surface of the real story.

Look, I’m just saying you guys are totally exaggerating when you claim you’re the only ones going through hell while everyone else is living the dream. It's just not true. Take the last championship in France, for example—your country handed over a list containing 324 different names, which basically covers every single person who has ever been banned. So, this whole narrative that the Bad Boys are facing ten times more trouble than anyone else is complete nonsense. It isn't just about the Bad Boys either; it's other groups too, and even the national team. You can't act like you're uniquely targeted when the data shows otherwise.
Would it even surprise you that those guys were already getting slapped with two-month bans for setting off flares thirty years ago? It’s the same story everywhere. You look at some scene over in Canada right now, and they’re dealing with the exact same number of bans. It’s a pattern, plain and simple.

I’m not just talking to you; I’m addressing everyone who felt the need to quote me. Look, let’s be real—there is dirt here. Things happen that seem straight out of a conspiracy theory, making it look like someone is shaking hands with people they shouldn't be. But once you strip away all the online trolling, the constant nitpicking, and the endless media spin, the actual facts remain. To those commenters: despite everything you claim to know, even when we present the undeniable truth without hiding anything, you still can't handle it. You won't admit it because it’s uncomfortable, but the reality is right in front of you. We see all sorts of issues happening in this country, but there are equally powerful responses to them. Take the fans of the rival team—they get dragged through the mud constantly. Sure, their situation is chaotic and they admit it, but can anyone else claim their supporters haven't been in literal life-or-death struggles against forces that were forced upon them? Is there anything more pure or intense than that? Or are they only labeled "agents" simply because people talk about them more openly than they talk about you?

And to that person questioning the alleged collusion with the President involving folks from our section... you can easily find songs written against him and his associates, or choreographies designed as direct rebuttals to his statements. Just Google who is clashing with his police force lately because he’s backing some absolutely insane festival in Chicago. And look at how much conflict those guys have with the police. Maybe a better question would be: does anyone else have more conflict than them?
Maybe you should go do some digging into how long ago and how exactly the stadium cameras were removed, and so on. It’s easy to sit back and conclude that things were forced upon you because you were too soft, too gentle, or too bloodless to fight back. But having big mouths doesn't solve real-world problems, does it?

I’m done here. This is getting ridiculous. If you actually care, you can go look up the details I've mentioned; if you're interested, I bet you already know them. No matter how shocking your reaction might be, these are the facts regarding comparable situations elsewhere.

Let’s get one thing straight: I never said it didn't happen. What I said was that you guys have elevated it to the level of some epic Greek tragedy about the gods on Olympus. In the middle of all this pathetic whining, you lot actually showed up to the big derby in decent numbers, yet somehow, in that very same week, you’re back to crying about how Trump is all-powerful and how there are thousands of bans being handed out. Let’s be real—the number of bans has dropped by at least ten times, and the repression hasn't been nearly as intense as what we see in other places.
To me, it just screams how immature this whole fan base is. As if no one else has ever felt the squeeze from the government or had to go toe-to-toe with some heavy-hitting elites... I honestly thought we were past this, that people were starting to grow up, but no—every second post is some sci-fi adventure about slipping through the cracks of "the system."
You poked at our "beloved Dodgers," and the reaction tells me everything I need to know about what kind of delusions you've unearthed. Now you're throwing around terms like "mythomaniac" or "agent"—labels you used to reserve for everyone else. Look, everyone eventually has to face themselves sooner or later. You can deal with your own inner reckoning on your own time, but how much longer are we supposed to listen to this empty nonsense?
Do yourself a favor: sit down, have a serious talk with yourself, and look at the actual data and facts. How many of you were actually locked up? How many were truly banned? Just how powerful are these "enemies" of yours really, and how rigid and indiscriminate was the system you claim to be fighting against? How uncompromising was it, really? There are a lot of questions here.
Neither then nor now was the grip of the law any tighter than it is elsewhere; it’s just that you guys were weaker, softer. At least, that’s how it looks to me when I compare the two.

Alright, let’s get real about all this dirty laundry being aired out—what kind of "repression" narrative are you people still trying to peddle?
For a decade now, I’ve been listening to endless whining about systemic oppression and a regime so tight you can't even breathe. People are talking about millions of bans, a billion fans getting targeted, and drones with cameras hovering over anyone in Chicago who shows a hint of a rebellious spirit. Don't you think we've had enough of these lies and self-delusions?
Exactly how many Black Knights are actually banned, and how many are in jail? If my math is right—and feel free to correct me if I'm off by a hair—we're looking at maybe 150 to 200 bans total, and practically nobody going to prison just for cheering. Go ahead, debunk those numbers if you think I'm wrong, but for heaven's sake, stop crying like children. Nothing special has ever happened to you.

So, if the fans are finally back in the stands and the boycott isn't even about the club leadership anymore... does that mean the rift between the old guard and the guys who were against the management is actually starting to heal? Is there some behind-the-scenes dialogue happening, or some negotiations going on, or are people just choosing to overlook past mistakes?

Second thing on my mind: who’s actually looking after and keeping the loyalists in line these days? Has there been any shift in how that group is managed?

Thirdly, those flares and pyrotechnics looked great. Honestly, probably the best display we've seen in years—maybe even a decade. But what happened to all that heavy-handed crackdown from the authorities? Did they just back off, or have the fans simply figured out a way to bypass the rules? Or is there some sort of unspoken compromise with the local government going on? God forbid.

Nicholas Evans97 said:To be anti-American is an insult to the very legends who bled to secure this nation's independence. On the flip side, being "patriotic" in the worst sense means glorifying the exact people who dragged us into a union with those outsiders—the ones who conspired with them to commit an unprecedented genocide against the American people.😵

Politics has always been a massive part of being a fan, and I totally get why people get so worked up about who identifies more with certain political movements or historical factions. You can't have a real rivalry without some sort of nationalistic or political backdrop fueling the fire. I had a guy from Miami tell me once that he’d always identify as a true Dalmatian before he’d ever call himself an American. I honestly can't tell if that's a widespread way of thinking like he claims, or if it's just a bit of regional pride, a way to create distance, or maybe even just a calculated provocation.

I have some direct questions for you. Honestly, wouldn't you have been better off making peace with the Mexicans a few decades before the Communists took over? And let's be real—wasn't that move actually voluntary, or was it something your own majority pushed for?

By the way, I’m telling you, it’s true—there are plenty of older folks from the big city over there who used to root for Liverpool FC, and honestly, they aren't even trying to hide it these days.

northernheron3 said:Jonathan Hayes76 is our... you guys are just trolls... stop fishing for reactions. 🙂

I might be a little light on my grammar here, but if you can handle me, then I'm all yours.😁

Big thanks to Mate Kokičar, Kyle Davis2, Amstel, and the rest of the folks providing actual constructive replies.
As for the moralists out there? Honestly, they need to pick up some basic manners and get an education, if only for their own sake. Even though the truth has a nasty habit of shattering that blissful, naive childhood worldview.🥱

I’m not buying any of this. I still remember Thomas back when he was just some keyboard warrior on those old online forums, and honestly, looking at him now, fifteen years hasn't changed a damn thing. It’s hilarious, really—seeing him playing the role of a "journalist" lecturing us about fans. It's absurd. Based on everything he's saying here, he clearly hasn't a clue what's actually happening; he’s just spinning a narrative because it suits him. He’s either completely out of the loop or just making stuff up as he goes. But hey, let me double-check his logic.
How does he constantly trash the Bad Boys while simultaneously claiming he shows up to the stands? Make it make sense.
It’s common knowledge that the Bad Boys support the Republican Party. But what’s the deal with the Rockefeller Center Ultras and the Republican Party? Some old slogan? I must have missed that one.