Posts by hollowmason64

gentlescout26 said:So, I've got this debt sitting at $17, plus I own a few properties. How does the bank actually go about seizing real estate? Look, I honestly wouldn't mind if they grabbed my farmland and left me my house alone. I know deep down they’d probably prefer the house since it's worth more, but I'll be out on the street if they take my place. Basically, if I can somehow sort out the situation with the house, are they legally forced to take the farmland instead?

The bank will probably just put a lien on the property first. But usually, their first move is going after your paycheck... if they can't collect that way, then they'll likely move in on the real estate.

Well, just to get things moving, you should probably have your dad send over the specific resolution they used to freeze the account.

nimbleranger652 said:Hey everyone.
Here’s the situation: back in June, I sold my car—fully notarized contract and everything. Fast forward to October 4th, and I get hit with a notice from the local police department in San Diego stating that a traffic violation occurred seven months ago. They want the details of whoever was behind the wheel at the time. They gave me a strict 15-day window to provide that info. So, I do the right thing. Within about three or four days, I send off the requested information via certified mail. But before that even settles, I check my bank account and realize they’ve already frozen my funds through a levy. It looks like someone at the precinct in San Diego let that initial notice sit in a desk drawer for two months while the clock was ticking, and now I'm the one getting screwed. Is there any point in fighting this bureaucracy, and if so, what’s the play here? Thanks in advance.

First, you'll want to head over to the IRS to pull an official certificate regarding the garnishment—get the specific amount and find out exactly who initiated it, specifically that case number. From there, you take that court order and deal with the court directly, and then you just go from there...

ironfalcon28 said:Back in 2003, I found myself staring down a debt on an American Express card. A final judgment for collection was handed down on June 27, 2006, and the whole case file ended up archived at the courthouse back on October 20, 2008... Given that nothing has actually been enforced since then, is there any chance I can claim the statute of limitations? Thanks!

If the creditor hasn't taken any actual steps toward enforcement since then...

ruggedmaker2 said:Oh, they'll do it, believe me.
If nothing else, it’s to squeeze those predatory sharks—you know the ones I mean 😁—who hand out credit and loans like candy just to trap people in a cycle of debt.
Real-world experience shows there are still plenty of employers out there messing up the garnishment process and seizing way more than the law allows, and honestly, nobody is even watching them.
How those people stay in business, I truly have no clue.

Besides, there are plenty of other ways to ensure you get paid, so let them use those instead. I mean, what’s the big deal with a promissory note or a waybill? What's the harm in that?

hollowmason64, a warning notice and a ledger extract are two completely different things. 😉

That wouldn't stop banks from issuing loans or make them any more cautious—if anything, it would just let them run wild, since they’d be the ones deciding exactly who gets what and when.
And as for employers taking whatever they want from paychecks, the workers share some blame too—why stay silent?

Besides that, there are other ways to secure payment, so they might as well use those. I mean, what’s the big deal with an IOU or a promissory note? What’s wrong with those?

Now, that part is what really interests me, and it's a question for John Clark6—what happens if a creditor holds, say, a blank promissory note, but realistically, the statute of limitations has already passed according to the law? And then they try to collect on that note after the deadline?

hollowmason64, a formal demand letter and a business ledger statement are not the same thing. 😉

I used to lump them together because every time I got a statement, it was because I missed a payment, so to me, it felt like the same thing. 😁

John Clark6 said:I’d say I’m giving an enthusiastic thumbs up—even if I have to raise my hand to be heard—to the idea that 🙂 (at least based on my own hands-on experience out there), the only real way to stop the statute of limitations from running out is to take a concrete step toward forced collection. In other words, we're talking about a formal writ of execution (IRS) or even those interest calculations mandated by that clunky legislation... though, honestly, I suspect none of that actually holds water in practice. My take? A formal request for a writ (OZ) is the only thing that counts; everything else feels like just a desperate attempt to reset the clock through creative interpretation. By the way, whenever I send a demand letter, I always attach a ledger extract—though I’ve actually moved away from sending demand letters lately (I suppose I’m finally living up to my username). If anyone happens to have a link to a court ruling that contradicts what I've said here, I would absolutely love to see it. As far as I can tell, only installment plans and formal writs of execution actually break the cycle.

You're terrible. 😳

John Clark6 said:It’s just your typical American mindset 🙂—everyone else is always at fault! It isn't the debtors who aren't meeting their obligations... no, it's the creditors who didn't FORCE them to pay up... 🙂

Whoa, hold on now... don't go twisting the narrative, that's just not fair. 😁
Your point is pretty clear—you didn't pay on time, so now you have to deal with interest, fees, and everything else, right? But you have to admit, not every unpaid bill is the result of someone being lazy or rude. Sometimes people just genuinely don't have the money... but hey, that's the law, and we have to follow it.
On the flip side—if you think it's fine for someone to pay way more because of, say, negligence, shouldn't there be consequences for the person failing to do their job too? Or should those rules only apply to one side of the equation?

ruggedmaker2 said:John Clark6, if you don't mind helping me out here, could you walk me through this?
At this seminar we attended, they told us that if we submit an excerpt from the business ledgers—with all the required legal stuff, obviously, though I guess that goes without saying—and we have a signed confirmation from the debtor acknowledging that specific amount, we basically have ourselves a valid enforcement instrument. The idea is that because the debtor acknowledged the debt on a new date, it resets the statute of limitations.

That’s exactly how they pitched it at the seminar.

A simple warning doesn't stop the clock on the statute of limitations. Under the law, the period starts running once the invoice becomes due, and it's only interrupted by initiating legal collection proceedings, nothing else.

ruggedmaker2 said:Technically, an extract from the business ledgers counts as an authentic document under the Uniform Commercial Code—though I might have tripped over my words there.
So, yeah, it makes sense.
In the entrepreneur world, sending those extracts is standard procedure because we’re basically forced to by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, specifically the parts about doing annual asset inventories.
That’s probably why a ledger extract is officially listed as an authentic document you can actually use to file an attachment motion.

@hollowmason64; look, you might think I'm being weird here, and maybe you don't get where I'm coming from, but I work in payroll. By definition, my job involves handling wage garnishments, and believe me, I have seen it all.

The whole thing about people signing papers, agreeing to terms, and handing over statements regarding debtor consent for seizure... honestly, you could write a novel about it.
And don't even get me started on how some people are basically saddling their grandkids with debt before they're even born.
I won't even go into the specifics of the folks who actually asked me to lie about their average salary just so they could qualify for a bigger loan than any bank would ever let them have. 🤦
Look, if you don't have a massive paycheck, don't take out a massive loan. You won't be able to pay it back. Period.

Honestly, I really hope the lawmakers eventually realize they should just stop making employers handle wage garnishments and leave it all to the IRS. It’s become nearly impossible to get everything right. Between exchange rate fluctuations, protected sick leave, and debts that are way, WAY higher than a third of a paycheck, it's a nightmare. Plus, the banks? They act so clueless every single time the Uniform Commercial Code changes that you practically have to sit down and explain to them all over again what exactly is legally protected. 🙄

I trust you're keeping a close eye on all of this.
Though, man, nobody really saw this kind of disaster coming with the crisis and the unemployment spikes. People just wanted to help out their friends or family—I know I definitely took my fair share of heat for doing the same—but I realize how much of a headache this is causing for your job.

Honestly, I’m really hoping the legislature finally decides to let employers off the hook regarding wage garnishments and just hands the whole process over to the IRS. It’s become nearly impossible to stay compliant. Between the exchange rate fluctuations, protected sick leave, debts that end up being way more than a third of a paycheck, and banks that act totally clueless every single time the Uniform Commercial Code gets updated... it's exhausting having to explain what's protected over and over again.🙄

I don't think the government will ever streamline it that way, though. They always seem obsessed with protecting the "little guy," so they feel the need to leave these messy buffer zones in place.

ruggedmaker2 said:Sure, the court will grant it, and the utility company loses their ability to force payment through a judgment, but don't think for a second that means they just write the debt off as a loss.
The company still wants its money, and trust me, they’ll try to find some other loophole or creative way to squeeze you once the legal route hits a dead end.

It's like when you go back to a shop years later asking for a favor or a service, and they look you dead in the eye and say: "Sure, we can help you out, but let's settle that old tab first." They never forget.😉

There really isn't any legal way left for them to collect that money. As for this "blackmail" tactic you mentioned—I'd honestly love to see who would actually be brave enough to try that officially.

John Clark6 said:I find myself telling people all the time that they’re totally misinterpreting what the statute of limitations actually means—it basically just signifies that I’ve lost my legal standing to sue for the money, but it certainly doesn't mean THAT YOU DON'T OWE ME ANYTHING. 🙂. We’re talking about services rendered and such, but if you just put yourself in the shoes of a business owner... well, there's no way you'd ever want to provide them with any more services, especially those folks who hide behind the statute of limitations and then act all surprised when you try to collect!

ruggedmaker2 said:Amen to that!

I am dead certain that the people who lent money once and never saw a dime of it back aren't even thinking about lending to that same person again, just because the debt "expired." Oh, sure, ten years have passed since it was due, so now it's technically "stale," which means we should totally lend them more cash.
Yep, right! Like that makes any sense.

You two are mixing emotions with the law here—something I'd never expect from either of you. Especially not from John Clark6 😁
There's a difference between how a private individual handles things and how a public utility or a government entity does...

At the end of the day, you guys want to punish someone else's laziness and incompetence. The real issue isn't that the bill wasn't paid on time; it's that nobody bothered to do anything about it since 2008. I mean, seriously—2008! After six damn years!
And I'm sure they have plenty of people in their legal and accounting departments who are incompetent—just like you'd expect with any big public corporation in America.
If I were their boss, I'd call everyone into my office and figure out who dropped the ball, then I'd split that debt among them—because their negligence and lack of care caused the loss for the employer.
There's nothing better than a little internal accountability.😁

boldnomad45 said:It literally says I need to pay immediately and call a specific number on the exact day the payment was supposedly made. Since the notice arrived today, Friday, and I can't do anything until Monday, I'm worried about facing a garnishment while I'm stuck trying to prove someone messed up a name. It makes no sense how they can send notices like this without any actual data! They could literally take your paycheck when you aren't even at fault or owe anything. There's a policy number listed, so maybe we can look into whether Medicare entered the wrong name and surname. We never requested or used supplemental coverage. Knowing the bureaucracy in this country and how incompetent officials can be, I'm afraid they'll just pull money straight from my account. I don't understand how something like this is even possible.

Oh, come on, don't start worrying about things that haven't happened yet. Just follow the steps the lady above mentioned and you'll be fine.

granitefalcon15 said:I just received a notice regarding some unpaid utility fees. The debt is broken down into several different amounts based on the dates, and the oldest one actually has a due date of March 12, 2008. The rest of them date back to May 2012. This entire debt was left to us by my late father; my sister and I are the co-owners of the inherited apartment he left behind.
My question is, can I actually file a claim for the statute of limitations against this notice? Specifically, can I contest that oldest amount from 2008? And if so, what is the timeframe for doing that, considering they haven't even started any formal collection proceedings yet?

File an objection and cite the statute of limitations for the bills that have expired—be very specific about which ones they are by listing the due dates and exact amounts, then just pay off the rest.

John Clark6 said:Well, you certainly can, though I guess the debt might not necessarily be wiped clean right away—usually, that only happens once an actual judgment for enforcement is issued... Honestly, your best bet would probably be to try and negotiate. Personally, I would never write off a debt like that if I had the choice, even though I technically could—mostly because people just love to play games, and it really grinds my gears when someone tries to dodge what they owe! From my own experience, I’d likely jump straight to filing for enforcement, and then you end up paying double $67 for the hassle, and then you're complaining about double $17 for the service fees, so I might just write off the 2008 portion and somehow you still end up owing the same amount. Sorry, I've been in this line of work far too long and some things just get under my skin 🙂. But looking at it from a purely moral standpoint, you guys inherited a property, so you should have plenty of cash to cover the utilities.

What do you mean "doesn't necessarily"?
The statute of limitations periods are set in stone; it's not really up to whether someone wants to follow them or not. If the utility company moves forward with a collection action, you just need to submit an objection citing the statute of limitations for those specific old bills within the required window, and the court should uphold it.

rowdyraven112 said:I’d bet my life they delivered it. The issue is the "helpful neighbors," the "nice mailman," the "mailing address vs. residential address" mess, and plain old ignorance.
First off, let's talk about ignorance. These things start with massive bold letters saying MOTION FOR LEVY, and only much later, in tiny print, do they mention the actual details. Most people see that and think, "Oh, just some warning." Even the rare few who bother to flip the page and see the notary stamp think it's just a notarized warning. It's a direct consequence of how they phrase these "warnings."
Then there's the stupidity of thinking you can just fight back by claiming the system is "broken" because they can't freeze your account if you didn't receive the notice. Instead, the notice just gets posted on the court bulletin board and suddenly it's legally binding.

The "good neighbor" syndrome—where everyone is buddies with "George the mailman"—is a huge problem here. A neighbor grabs your legal mail while you're on vacation, tosses it in your box, or just sits on it for six weeks before handing it over.

Then you have the "good mailman George" syndrome, where he signs for your legal documents himself, leaves them by the door, and then the wind or some nosy neighbor does the rest.

On top of that, there's the whole residency issue. The mailman can't find you at your current address because you're renting, so they send the levy to whatever address is on your ID. Then we're right back to the "good mailman," the "good neighbor," or the court bulletin board loop.

This isn't even everything; it's just a fraction of what happens under the "I never got the notice" excuse. Sure, some levies have actual errors, but those are one in a thousand and get fixed fast—like a wrong Social Security number, for example. Unfortunately, the law doesn't offer any compensation for the victims, which is why these cases end up making the news.

It’s exactly because of all those headaches you mentioned—and the constant mess involving SSNs—that they're looking to fix this in the new bankruptcy law.

When does that actually kick in? September 1st?

wearyviper19 said:Hi there,

Sorry to just jump in like this, but I was hoping someone could weigh in on a situation I'm dealing with. I'll be honest, I don't really know my way around legal procedures or enforcement actions, so any insight would be appreciated.

Here’s the deal... my father ended up owing Optima about $900. He received a formal notice from a notary last February. We reached out to them back in May and managed to work out a settlement where we'd pay off the debt in six installments of $150 each, sent directly to their account (the enforcement order hadn't hit the IRS yet at that point). We followed through on that, but we're currently stuck on one final installment that hasn't been paid because of a temporary shortage of funds. The last successful payment went out in October. A few days ago, my father checked with the IRS—his accounts were already frozen due to an existing debt with another bank—and he saw that an enforcement order from Optima had been filed for $1467. Is it actually possible for a debt to jump from 450 to $1467? I'm wondering if this might be an error on their end, considering we've already cleared five of the installments (I have all the payment receipts saved). I realize notary fees can be pretty steep. If this turns out to be a mistake, is there any way to have the order pulled from the IRS so we can just settle that last remaining payment?

Thanks in advance,

ruggedmaker2 said:Did you ever tell the notary about the installment agreement you made? And did you send them copies of those payment receipts?
Have you filed an official dispute against this $1467 garnishment?

It’s totally possible that Optima never told the notary anything, so as far as they're concerned, nothing has happened. Pick up the phone and start calling both Optima and the notary.

I’m not entirely sure why, but I’d be willing to bet they didn't even serve them the 🤣
properly.

Susan Chase70 said:That 8-day window is just an arbitrary deadline they give you before they initiate an execution proceeding based on a credible instrument. Usually, they do this based on some ledger extract, a contract, or other documents proving you took on an obligation or owe a debt.

The "data" likely refers to all the documentation from Mastercard showing your obligations. Your paycheck and your accounts are things they can target for an execution.

As for the criminal charge of fraud... whether that's just a bluff or not, you can decide that for yourself.

A protected account isn't even an option until you are officially in default/blocked.

Your best bet is to call them and try to negotiate a waiver of interest and a payment plan.

But honestly, you have to deal with the bank directly to hash that out—things like getting them to waive the interest...

Kimberly Robinson49 said:So, let's break this down—it’s a bit of a mess, isn't it? We have one person listed, but then there's this other individual who was also officially registered at the address back then... Let me try to clarify the situation for you. Essentially, we are looking at a father who moved out and left the household entirely back in 2012. Now, the actual owner of the property is the mother, but—and here is the kicker—the warning notice regarding the execution is being issued in the names of both the father and the adult child. Talk about a headache! Given that the legal ownership doesn't even match the names on the notice, what would be the smartest move here? What's the best way to handle this legal knot?
So, I’ve been looking over these notices, and honestly? It makes absolutely no sense! They’re sending out two different amounts—it's almost like they decided to just split the total right down the middle and send half to each person... but why?! And here is what really trips me up—if they’re being so "clever" about splitting things up, why on earth didn't they just list my mother on the paperwork? She’s the actual owner of the property! It feels totally illogical—I mean, seriously, where is the reasoning there? Since we live in such a small town where everyone knows everyone else's business, I can't help but wonder if they think this approach will make it easier to squeeze the debt out of my father? Or—and this is the part that really gets me—is it some sort of roundabout way to pressure us kids into paying at least a portion if he doesn't come through? I don't know... I am just completely lost on the logic here!

Well, that's about everything... 🙄
Look, if I were you, I’d put a little more effort into this. Instead of getting sucked into a massive debate about your dad's bank account, just pick up the phone and call the person who sent that pre-execution notice. Don't argue—just ask them straight up: what exactly is this warning for under the "child's" name? Is there some kind of record somewhere linking them to him, and what's their actual legal basis for making this claim against the "child"?
I'm really curious to hear what the answer is...

Andrew Murphy5 said:So, here’s how it shook out—the collectors claimed the laws changed, so now they're inventorying everything at the debtor's primary residence. It's a mess. $2333.
That parent went ahead and did it. $367 Do it right away—apparently, if you don't, the interest keeps piling up and everything else is due within fifteen days. Then, a few hours later, they call me back and claim the law didn't even change. Real smooth.
Was that pulled off through a straight-up scam, or did they just prey on people being too trusting?
I’m guessing that lady isn't seeing her money again—standard procedure when there's a "wrongful" payment involved. It’ll probably just end up covering something else entirely.

What do you mean by "gave"? Did they actually get some kind of official confirmation? What does the paperwork actually say? 😕

Is this some kind of elaborate scam, or are they just banking on people being too naive to notice?

It was a classic setup—they basically bled them dry by counting on how little they actually knew about the system. 😁

John Clark6 said:Oh boy... well, I mean, these are actually intermittent claims that have a three-year statute of limitations from each due date (per Article 226 of the obligatory relationship law). Besides, the ones that expire after just one year are very clearly specified—it’s not a general rule that all utilities expire in a year—because utility fees aren't exactly the same thing as trash collection. People are constantly complaining to me, thinking it's just one year and then they can walk away, so I feel like I'm just wasting my breath with them during the appeals process. Honestly, people always seem to interpret the law in whatever way suits them best! 🙂 So, if they want to spend their money on filing fees while they bicker like that, let them go right ahead. 🙂

So, how often are utility fees supposed to be paid?

People always end up interpreting laws however suits them best. 🙂

Exactly... you just have to stay honest about it. The reason things get messy isn't really because of people, it’s because the laws themselves are basically written to be: "do this... or maybe do that." 😁

Andrew Murphy5 said:Got a question about enforcement laws...
An adult owes money to T-Mobile and they're currently under garnishment. The thing is, this person lives with their parents. Now, the collectors are claiming the parents are on the hook too just because the debtor shares their address. They even started making an "inventory" of everything in the house.
Is this actually legit? How is that even possible?

Of course not. I don't see any reason why parents would be responsible for the debts of a child who is both an adult and fully capable of managing their own affairs.
I honestly don't know why they're even allowed to start cataloging someone else's property.😕
At this point, they should just file a statement saying everything belongs to them.

Brandon Hill8 said:Municipal fees don't expire under the enforcement law because this isn't a public grant. It's an occasional claim.

The person responsible for the municipal fee is anyone actually using the property, not just the owner.

But for heaven's sake, you can't just go after someone with an execution if the bills aren't even in their name.
And honestly, the craziest part is they’re trying to pin this on someone who wasn't even registered at that address during that timeframe. Under what kind of law would that even hold up in court? What kind of judge would actually sign off on an execution like that? 😕

Susan Thompson15 said:If there's money on the line, believe me, finding people is easy... people get motivated... personally, I would 😍

Nobody just vanishes into thin air ☕ ...you can always dig something up. ☕

Basically—there’s no way to dodge a debt unless you pack up and move to Hawaii or some other tiny island nation 😁

Susan Thompson15 said:Absolutely.

Not too long ago, someone was hit with an enforcement action over in Mexico regarding about $9,000 in legal fees.

And when it comes to these other European Union countries? It’s even faster and easier there.

That makes sense, but how do you even track someone down? Like, if John Doe moves away from the States and you have zero clue where he went... how do you locate him? I'm guessing you can't just walk into a police station and tell them you need help finding someone who owes you money...
P.S. I'm not doing anything wrong, and I'm certainly not planning a getaway—I'm just incredibly curious.😁

Dana Chavez2 said:Hey everyone, so listen to this. An enforcement notice showed up at my home address this past Wednesday, but since I’m living in Washington, D.C., I didn't even see it until yesterday.

Back in 2009, I got caught dodging a fare on an Amtrak train—it was a trip from D.C. to somewhere else. I didn't have the cash for a ticket; things were just rough back then. The ticket was $8.00, the fine was $100, plus the cost of the ride itself. My mom filed an appeal for me since I was under 18, and if I remember correctly, they actually granted it and wiped the fine. But that document? It's gone forever. Now, out of nowhere, I get hit with an enforcement order from $359 regarding that old fine of $100 plus the fare. Since I'm a student, all I've got is a checking account with a balance of $0.00, and I'm already sitting at $333 in overdraft. I don't have a job, let alone any property or assets. Is there any way they can forgive this debt based on my financial situation or that old court ruling they should still have on file?

It’s tough... just because you don't have it now doesn't mean it won't catch up to you in a year or two.😁
Has it crossed your mind to just head down to the courthouse and ask for a copy of that release?

Do you happen to know of any real-world cases like this? I'm just asking out of pure curiosity 🙂

Honestly, I can't stop thinking about what you said in every other 😁

Thomas Ward5 said:If anyone has any insight, I would be most grateful. Please provide a link or some sort of template that could serve as a guide for drafting this..

The parents basically just need to draft a formal statement confirming that all the personal property inside the house belongs to them, and then they can submit that directly to the court.

John Clark6 said:You won't believe what the judge wrote in the reasoning—it was quite something! He basically said, "The fact remains that the creditor isn't required to send payment slips via certified mail, yet the debtor does have the right to dispute the debt based on not receiving them, since the creditor lacks proof of delivery; this doesn't mean the debt doesn't exist, it just means it hasn't technically become due yet"—which is just... well, wow. Especially considering the person actually used the service! They used the service, there's a contract in place, and they are fully aware they need to pay for it. It feels like finding a sensible judge is a rare occurrence these days, I guess. Honestly, I feel like I'm just spinning my wheels on these appeals. Now, instead of simply posting the order on the courthouse bulletin board like they should, the clerk is insisting that I cover $59 the fees for a process server. There isn't even a rule requiring that kind of service, and I even provided her with the proof of residence. (That was for the insurance order, by the way).

I was actually the one filing an appeal in a similar case once—arguing that I never received the bill for the period I was eventually sued for, and the court actually sided with me.
To be honest, I really didn't get the bill and even though your point about using the service makes total sense, the court agreed with my side too. I don't think anyone should be expected to just wander around begging for bills just so they can pay someone money 🤷
The thing is, the creditor has a customer service department, but they don't record their calls, and since I insisted I had called them... the court basically just took my word for it.

Even if you aren't thrilled that the court upheld the objection, I don't see why one side should automatically be trusted over the other, right? 🤷

Roger Williams said:Sorry to jump in here, but I'm dealing with something similar. Does this stuff ever actually hit the statute of limitations?

That’s likely already past the statute of limitations anyway. I don't see any reason to give them a single cent unless they're desperate for the cash.
Different types of debt have different expiration periods, so you really have to specify what kind of debt we're talking about.

John Clark6 said:I have to say, those "government bureaucrats" comments always sting me a little bit—last time, when people were calling lawyers the exact same thing, that guy actually won his case... but anyway...
Personally, I wouldn't be so quick to bash the fact that he was offered an installment plan and a repayment agreement. Though, on the flip side, I do suspect they might be trying to "trick" people into resetting the statute of limitations—since agreeing to a payment plan usually restarts that clock. Then again, the IRS hasn't done much of anything for years, so now that they're finally active, they're just desperate to collect.

The comment was pretty general, really... 😁
As for lawyers, I don't think that applies to all of them—probably just a small minority, like in any profession—but when it comes to the IRS, nobody has anything nice to say. Part of that is because of what you mentioned earlier.

From what I gathered, he didn't even sign up for the restructuring program at all. 🤷
It honestly disgusts me how they try to intimidate people, especially someone who is clearly trying to pay their way out of this. Honestly, you have to wonder if they'll start asking for kidneys or egg cells next. It feels like they're just preying on people who were naive enough to set up LLCs instead of standard corporations, racking up debt until they get pushed into bankruptcy and then—poof—they're gone.