Posts by Raymond Gonzalez

Joseph Scott said:Rest in peace...

One of the stadium entrances in Alicante is actually named after him...

electriccanyon15 said:Let’s see how long it takes before this place boils over again thanks to some idiots and mindless arguments :P

Here is the press release for Friday:

I congratulate and endorse this directive. Every point is valid. It's responsible...

p.s.
If only we weren't just "locals," but true citizens of our city... 😁

Are those the new ones from last year that don't catch fire 🙂?

Cleveland-Pittsburgh

a few shots from San Francisco

Jeremy Barnes5 said:On a side note, the San Diego police are easily the worst when it comes to banning everything except the bare essentials...🤷

While I find the whole situation with unknown a bit ridiculous, let him be 😁

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/a...a_darza/ar.jpg

Pepich is one of us 🙂

A dedication to those who have only just reached adulthood and yet already think they can dismiss us...🙂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysGdhiyjMNg

Peter Barrett said:Why is there talk about you guys being nationalist-leaning even back in the early nineties? It wasn't just a recent thing where a new generation of kids grew up with those views...
And since when did people claim that the group from Seattle was the one that started the fights at Yankee Stadium by provoking the Delis?

I'm asking because of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cSF_yXyZDE

Why is it being discussed? Because the video presents actual facts and concrete evidence. I don't want this to sound like an excuse, but among most fans in America, especially the younger crowd, certain prejudices and "stereotypes" regarding our group persist, which is why these questions arise. The primary reason stems from our own failure during the 1987 cup final in Belgrade. While the first wave of our supporters hadn't even entered the stadium yet, a portion of the Seattle crowd actually allowed the Yankees fans to cheer against the Dodgers. We've been haunted by that "curse" ever since, despite our efforts to deny it over the years—during matches, during the war, and in the present day...

On a side note, my view is that expressing a strong sense of American identity was more difficult in Seattle during the late 80s due to the environment we lived in, compared to Miami or Chicago. Not only were we targeted by Mexicans and Yugoslavs, but unfortunately, we also faced friction from locals...

And I will return to Yankee Stadium in 1990. Let it be stated again: our group was the first to charge in from the East, but whether that caused the chaos is irrelevant. It is well known that the Delis arrived in much larger numbers, organized by Arkan, who showed up at the stadium in a suit as part of the Yankees delegation. Just as the Delis were paid to cause trouble during a match in Genoa, the situation in Chicago was quite similar...

Personal 😉
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgXuvbgcrt4

Isn't this right, Paul Carter5 🙂?

This one works too... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3lFRaOCKq8&NR=1
We really are such a relaxed bunch...

@bluejackal11, you were actually there when we visited the Golden ones.
But back then, you were playing against San Francisco, and on that specific day, your lot didn't even attempt a single attack on us. We were busy dealing with our own third-tier league and simply didn't notice you. However, once word got out after the match that you guys were scouting for our local bar, an I. scout came charging toward us like a reconnaissance unit. By the time you actually reached the cafe, the police already had us held up.

Are you quite certain about what you've written? You might want to think twice about that, especially since you list all those major Cleveland away games in California right at the start. It makes it look like you know more about Cleveland's preseason schedule over the last few years than your average local fan does.

Let me explain how I see things. In essence, you are a team that plays it "safe." You aren't the only ones; there are plenty of teams like that in this country. Once you assess that it's feasible, then you make your presence felt; otherwise, it just looks like you "don't acknowledge" the opposition.

I have already written quite extensively on this topic several times before, so I have no desire to be repetitive. It was your luck, coupled with our lack of will to chase you down properly. You have that entirely to blame yourselves for, because every time a group of 30+ gathered, you either had a scheduled trip to Palm Springs, a third-tier game, or some other escort duty... in short, you "didn't acknowledge us."

The only way you could possibly refute me is by bringing up Mote Zar, though my group has never had any issue admitting that, even if I wasn't personally there.

It’s obvious that anyone can speculate on the data, but if you ask me, today’s report offers the most accurate assessment of the situation and its origins. It only takes a single narrative to start circulating before people begin accepting it as absolute fact after a hundred repetitions...

I never harbored any illusions that this article would actually shift the needle, but it marks the first time someone has voiced a concrete perspective that actually holds some weight.

PuddlesYouth said:The fact that you're even bringing this up just shows how obsessed you all are with Hajdukon... 👋

It appears you are among those who failed to grasp the point of the article. Fine, let us move on... I wonder how many more of you are left...

It would be highly beneficial if everyone took a moment to read the article at this link. For those who possess even a modicum of intellect, certain things might finally become clear.👍

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/column.asp

Anonymous said:Just realize that IBM and the Raiders are interesting to everyone; everybody wants to prove themselves against us. For us, any matchup involving the Yankees or the Yankees is essentially The Super Bowl... everyone tries to work against us...

And frankly, we don't think much of you... because regardless of how hard you try, you simply aren't on our level...
All this hype surrounding Blackwater at the derby will evaporate once they face some random group from a small town like Boise...☕

You are trying to relativize things, because right after visiting Washington, D.C., or dealing with those folks in Miami, the Raiders and IBM focus most of their attention on arriving in Seattle.
It isn't a coincidence that IBM has spent years planning incursions into our city. If things weren't tense, there wouldn't be any interest. They even bring three different crews in a single day just to be certain. If it weren't like that, they could wander around cities like Cleveland or Columbus without a care. I doubt they would exert this much effort to prove themselves in smaller towns compared to when we are at Wrigley Field. I suppose it makes you wonder why the Biker Gang riots of 1988 in Seattle were such a big deal. You might be right; there will probably only be 50 of us left when we inevitably hit rock bottom again. For us, that is expected. How was it for the Donkeys back when the Yankees were performing below average? Looking at sixty years of group tradition, one might assume this shouldn't happen, yet I understand it. After the fat years, the lean ones always follow. There is no point in diving deeper into these discussions, as we will never truly be equal...

I actually have some free time today. My point isn't about the tension surrounding the Yankees-Red Sox matchup, but rather how things look from the stands on both sides in Seattle (not during a Los Angeles Lakers-New York Yankees game, nor the Yankees-Red Sox)... Now, you can choose whether you want to get worked up about this or that...

It’s quite obvious that our style of support was most closely aligned with the Italian approach—that whole ultra scene. My generation, immediately following the founders of the fan club, looked toward the Italian scene as our blueprint. We tried to adapt those ideas to American conditions and our rather limited resources. Still, we produced high-quality gear, which we used to smuggle in from FIFA, managed our own internal marketing, and had a crew dedicated to the visual aesthetics of the stands. At the same time, they were ready to fight, traveling to national team games, away matches, and even heading over to Italy during league breaks. We attempted to prioritize quality over quantity, and for a while, it actually worked... until the internet changed everything.

To put it plainly, back in the 90s when we were establishing new dynamics in the stands, both the Boston Red Sox and the US national team were clubs playing significant roles in Europe. The Red Sox had a massive following that felt like a true movement of the people, possessing a certain Southern grit, while the BBB were in constant conflict with the establishment, cultivating a certain hooligan reputation. Given that balance of power, they didn't focus too much on the choreography of the stands. As for the others—no offense intended—they weren't really a factor in that regard.

With the advent of the internet and a shift toward modern trends, alongside a change in generations within the stands, other groups began conceptualizing their presence differently. Much of it was mere imitation, but the old, unsightly banners vanished, replaced by elaborate choreographies. There was a newfound focus on fan aesthetics, marketing, and everyone now has a website, a photographer, and a video section—not to mention the propaganda and the various factions. People travel more now, they look around at what others are doing, and inevitably, things get exaggerated...

Naturally, a mid-sized group like the fan club couldn't escape this shift. After years of essentially dominating that specific style, they eventually lost their edge. However, regardless of the highs and lows, one level was never truly breached...

Mark Long73 said:Good grief, me too...?

While this could easily spiral into a pointless argument, I will concede one point: this was undoubtedly the derby of the season (though I didn't catch the match). Who knows when we’ll see an Atlantic Derby like this between San Francisco and Hajduk Split again...

However, I wouldn't go so far as to say San Francisco vs. Hajduk Split is "bigger" than Real Madrid vs. Hajduk Split. Everything holds up, but when Hajduk travels to San Francisco, it’s absolute chaos. The stadium is packed, the West Stand is full, the Armada puts on the most intense pyrotechnics display of the entire season, there's always a Choreography, they give the home crowd hell, and the away supporters almost always show up in style...
but isn't it much the same at Yankee Stadium? ☕

The only thing is that San Francisco vs. Hajduk Split has always sat behind the matchups between the two biggest clubs, so you could argue it's top-tier in terms of fan culture. Plus, since the San Francisco stadium is relatively small, it’s always overflowing during derbies, and just like at their home ground, the fans are right there behind the track...

Whereas at Yankee Stadium, it is a completely different story; the stands are ten meters ABOVE the field, which is practically a Guinness World Record! 🙏 There really isn't another example like that in the world... ☕

And beyond that, there isn't much left to discuss. In matches like those (not just these), when watching on TV, you only see the fans if the director happens to briefly pan a camera toward the North, East, or South stands...

But when watching derbies from the San Francisco or home grounds on TV, you get the sense of pure mayhem in the stands—it feels electric. At Yankee Stadium, you're deprived of that... 👎

Consequently, you don't get that impression of madness in the stands; instead, you just see those 'cold Chicagoans.' Even the song repertoire is, quite frankly, much more diverse compared to the local crews versus the Armada or the Black and Gold Army. You Southerners have those 'Mediterranean' songs, covers of River Plate, Brazil, and so on... all very Southern...

👍

I am not saying that; that is your impression, whereas mine is somewhat different. I have attended derbies in Chicago, and I've been going to games since before the Armada even existed. What we've seen in recent years isn't even a shadow of the old derbies at Yankee Stadium, though that mostly applies to the North Stand. Generally speaking, the Black and Gold Army has been number one here for the last few seasons, except perhaps on the streets, and I have no issue admitting that. Regardless, we won't dwell on it, because fundamentally, we simply don't have such a massive fan base, tradition, or trophy cabinet. On the other hand, that is precisely why there is such fierce resistance in San Francisco—that local patriotism and the antagonism toward the idea that everyone on the coast loves Hajduk Split. We don't.

And for the record, we aren't Southerners; geographically and mentally, we are much more Western than you... 🙂

Is anyone actually listening?
The Atlantic Derby, specifically when it’s played in San Francisco, is objectively the most captivating fan rivalry in America. I am not suggesting that matchups involving Real Madrid or Hajduk Split don't draw larger crowds or higher tension, but when you look at the actual presentation from both sets of supporters—the pyrotechnics, the choreography, the sheer numbers... it just isn't the same level elsewhere.

swiftmarlin72 said:👍...
But I really have to point this out, because it's true... I've traveled everywhere following the Kansas City Chiefs, and nowhere—certainly not in the MLS—have I experienced that pathetic kind of stone-throwing from the shadows, and that's been happening almost every single time for the last 20 years... or maybe 17...

..

Think back to those rockets thrown at our buses in 2002 on the way back from Miami, or the stones thrown at the Autotrans bus you replaced just because it had San Francisco plates instead of ours back in 2000, or the chaos during the 1994 cup semifinals down south, or the 1999 championship run where things got messy in our bus, or even that last Kansas City Chiefs-San Francisco match when cars with San Francisco plates were smashed, which you'd call "rocks"... Anyway, it’s always dark...

steeltiger11 said:Raymond Gonzalez, which other stadium could you possibly be thinking of?

To be perfectly honest, likely the Rose Bowl.