So, apparently, exclusive rights to uttama adikaryu are reserved solely for members of Indian lineages, for instance,
And yet, here we are, seeing everyone dancing side-by-side at the temple and during the Sunday feasts.
But I’m not making any excuses for anyone; sexism remains a massive, pervasive issue. I think I touched upon all of this when I previously wrote about having a "hard heart." Though, I suppose I could start listing things now too—sexism, and all that other stuff...
Honestly, is there any "spiritual following" out there that isn't plagued by sexism?
Reading through all these posts, I have to admit, all this talk about Indian traditions and general spiritualism starts to get a bit grating 😢 It isn't particularly healthy, is it? To become so deeply attached to a specific movement, or a single individual, or even a certain country, race, or philosophy... whatever you want to call it... Everyone starts out with the same sentiment—that we are all equal, that we should all love and respect one another—but then, inevitably, the sectarianism begins. All these claims to exclusive rights and special status start cropping up.
I don't know... it just leaves me feeling quite confused. 😕
granitebadger23 said:It isn't something you imagine—it just happens.😂🤣😁
Well, I certainly can imagine quite a few things...🙂
This whole obsession with Radh Kunda feels a bit misplaced to me. Does an uttama really have to be someone specifically from Radh Kunda? If that's the case, what is even the point of having Vaishnavism here in the States?
Honestly, I don't take anything in this life too seriously—at least nothing coming from the outside world—even though I used to be so deeply immersed in all of it. I’d like to think my ego didn't get the better of me during that time, at least... that's how I perceive it 😬. My only genuine regret is that I happened to meet my spiritual teacher right in the middle of all that chaos, which meant our relationship was somewhat shaped by those specific circumstances . But then again, I have seen and learned enough to remain steadfast even after hitting rock bottom . I simply cannot imagine accepting any other guru .
No, I certainly don't hold the process itself accountable for the fact that some people simply possess such hardened hearts. I have encountered similar types of individuals in other circles as well. And it isn't as if my own heart has grown callous from practicing bhakti yoga... it just strikes me as quite peculiar that certain people remain so resistant even after ten or twenty years of dedicated practice. What is it they actually do with their lives, I wonder?
I simply made the decision to distance myself from those kinds of people.
And in doing so, I happened to gain some rather profound insights into my own nature.
I wasn’t actually disappointed with the process itself; rather, I found myself frustrated by the internal politics involved, and I say that with complete sincerity. By the way, I find it quite peculiar that individuals who claim to be so deeply committed to bhakti and devotion can simultaneously develop such profound alienation and a lack of empathy... one has to wonder, what kind of anartha is that?
Following those reflections, I realized that I am much more drawn to different methods and various ways of approaching the divine (if we are to call it that), and so it goes.
boldsailor2 said:haha... I actually bought the Gita and "The Ultimate Questions" while I was literally in high school... A Bhakta actually walked right into our classroom during class period... but man, everyone went totally wild 🙏😍
you really had to have some nerve to pull something like that off😍 I joined the movement about 15 years ago; I was only 14 at the time...
😁 and you could only have been a Bhakta thirty years ago... 🙏 By the way, she ended up picking up the Bhagavad Gita, the first and second volumes of the Srimad Bhagavatam, some self-realization studies, and the Upanishads. That is wonderful! Back when I was just a young girl, I absolutely loved looking through all those beautiful illustrations, especially the ones from the Bhagavatam. 😍
I honestly feel no shame at all about it, nor do I consider what happened to be particularly heavy or traumatic. I actually first discovered those books through a Sankirtan Bhakta. And my mother didn't walk away with any bad impressions of that Bhakta either; on the contrary, she felt quite positive...
Aha, so that is what 😁 you think? Well... I suppose I am.😂 I mean, you've got people out there hunting deer or whatever, while I'm over here busy dealing with vegetarian cookbooks...🤣😂
Hmm, I am actually referring to how things used to be back in the day. It has been quite a long time since I spent any regular time at the temple, so I cannot say for certain what the current atmosphere is like. Generally speaking, the preaching tended to be much more intense, though it wasn't specifically targeted at those outside the movement; it felt more like an insider conversation meant for the core group... 🤷
I have truly never encountered devotees quite like this before 😢 It seems there are certain individuals who simply lack any sense of social grace or effective communication skills, though I suppose those are just outliers, and you can find them in just about any corner of the country.
Oh, if there were a factory just pumping out Uttama Adhikaris right here in the States, I would certainly go ahead and pick up three of them immediately 😁 ...
Yes, I believe even SP himself mentioned that we occasionally need to accept a madhyama adhikari as our guru. It isn't necessarily a catastrophe, provided we remain mindful that the vast majority of people are kanisthas, and most will likely only ever reach the level of a madhyama in a single lifetime... It does, however, present certain complications, much like what we have observed within the history of ISKCON...
granitebadger23 said:Don't worry, you were definitely noticed. 😍
It's just that you gave a broad answer typical for the Vaishnava world, whereas the question was specifically about ISKCON. In this case, the Governing Body Commission is the one that decides who gets to be a guru or not.
So, you all actually noticed me... 😍
granitebadger23 said:Don't worry, you were definitely noticed. 😍
It's just that you gave a broad answer typical for the Vaishnava world, whereas the question was specifically about ISKCON. In this case, the Governing Body Commission is the one that decides who gets to be a guru or not.
Actually, I'm not entirely sure how things work on a broader scale within the Vaishnava community, since my experience and knowledge have been almost exclusively limited to ISKCON, but that's alright. Your perspective really helped complete the picture... 👍
granitebadger23 said:Actually, nobody has answered this yet, so even though I'm not part of that organization, I think I know how it works.
The GBC (Governing Body Commission) selects the gurus. The selection process relies on several key parameters. A potential guru needs support from their local community, shouldn't have any scandals on their record for at least the last 10 years, must represent the teachings of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, stay loyal to the GBC, and so on. It's all laid out in a document called the "GBC law book."
So, I guess nobody can really guarantee that those declared as gurus are self-realized, or that they won't leave or do something contrary to Vaishnava rules down the road. People usually assume someone in a guru position was chosen because they are self-realized, but in many cases, that just isn't the case.
I am of the opinion that Richard Walker79 is quite correct on this matter; if we are going to have a discussion on such a topic, then we ought to call things by their proper names. Especially since there are individuals among us who are well-versed in these terms, and they remain significant (to us).