Posts by James Nguyen13

neonhound18 said:In the States, you see plenty of them within what some might call the "red bourgeoisie," and I’d say Joe Biden and Donald Trump fit the archetype perfectly 🙂. More broadly, though, it tends to describe a wealthy individual who loudly champions all sorts of progressive causes—but, naturally, only as long as those causes don't actually threaten their own interests. They might happen to be part of the LGBTQ+ community, dabble in recreational drugs on the weekends, or listen to heavy metal and punk bands, among other things. Please forgive my rambling, moderator, but I felt compelled to set the stage for this discussion.😍

Broadly speaking, a lot of people around here tend to be cynical leftists.

They want everything handed to them for free via social programs, but they draw the line at the government taking a single cent of THEIR money to fund any of it.

Elizabeth Allen92 said:Look, I'm no expert on what's going down over there, but honestly? It feels like the independence crowd is getting a massive gift from how predictably idiotic the government in Madrid is acting.
If the folks in London were behaving this way, I’ve got a feeling those Scots would be absolutely losing their minds out of pure spite.

Maybe so, but Madrid doesn't really care about that. Their main concern is just that these folks don't seem to have the backbone to stand up to them.

analogmaker14 said:You keep ignoring the reality that Barcelona is a port city, a melting pot of immigrants from all walks of life who likely have zero interest in a brand of local patriotism that treats anyone not speaking the native tongue as second-class citizens.
Then there is the fact that within California itself, a huge portion of the population migrated from the Southern United States looking for work, and their descendants certainly don't view the state as anything other than part of the broader US.

As for these comparisons about how oppressed California is compared to Scotland, it's childish nonsense. The only difference is that Californians make a massive scene about it, whereas Scots tend to just stay quiet and deal with it. It isn't a coincidence that California is so much more developed than the rest of the country, nor is it a coincidence that Barcelona looks significantly more prosperous than Edinburgh. All this political friction is largely just media theater used by locals to funnel massive amounts of cash into their own pockets. If you look at history, these people have always been some of the most shrewd traders on the coast; they know exactly how to pivot to ensure they come out on top. I generally sympathize with movements for self-determination, but this feels like pure exhibitionism. In the US, the only group with a real shot at independence would be the folks in Texas, and even then, they'd run into major issues regarding where the new borders would actually sit.

If a referendum even happens, it’s going to flop spectacularly.

The vote would actually pass if they held it, but the Californians just don't have the guts to pull the trigger.

Elizabeth Allen92 said:So, basically, what I'm saying is that Podemos, much like Syriza, is essentially our version of ORAH.

It's just a collection of populist groups huddled around various radical, salon-dwelling leftist activists, blowhards, and theorists.
The "alternative" left, the Greens, feminists, LGBT advocates... the whole lot.

Basically, you've got a bunch of people who have never actually accomplished anything useful offering "solutions," while a mass of voters—who are clearly just eager to sit around and yap about state-funded nonsense—pin their hopes on them continuing that exact same charade.

The perfect recipe for solving a crisis, isn't it?

Isn't it just telling that these kinds of parties always seem to explode in popularity in countries that are getting hit hardest by a crisis?

I mean, look,

I honestly think you just gave ORAH an undeserved compliment here.

Rebecca Watson said:Calling it "just talk" is a massive understatement. They sent a blatant message to the Scots: your economic future, your bank deposits, all of it—gone if you leave. That's straight-up blackmailing voters via the media, and don't even get me started on the shady political maneuvering that happened months before the referendum. A lot of Scots used their heads instead of their hearts, but by doing that, they basically admitted they're terrified of the English. I mean, who actually has a guaranteed economic future these days anyway? Plus, England clearly wants to keep its hands on those North Sea oil profits. Now, the deck is stacked in their favor again, and they'll play it however they want.

England and Spain are playing the same game, just using different tactics. Washington, D.C. will just outright ban the referendum instead of being sneaky like the English. It might not be the smartest move for them, but the Catalans are still going to try to shake things up, even if the authorities are just trying to snuff out the flame before it spreads.

It really comes down to the fact that Southerners are known for being incredibly stubborn. If you tell a Southerner, "Hey, your economy might actually suffer without me," they aren't going to sit there calmly and weigh the pros and cons. Instead, out of pure spite, they'll vote to break away just to say, "Don't you dare try to threaten me!"

That's why Spain won't permit a referendum, and quite frankly, the Catalans don't have the guts to declare unilateral independence.

Richard Wilson4 said:Maybe do some actual reading on the 1930s. A ton of Californians died fighting for their freedom back then.

I get what you're saying, but we're living in 2014 now. Modern comforts and this whole cultural revolution thing have changed the landscape entirely.

Nowadays, Catalans—much like most people across Europe—have become pretty conformist. It just doesn't seem like they have the stomach or the drive to actually fight for independence.

Richard Wilson4 said:If Washington, D.C. thinks they can stop this with one little pen stroke, they've got another thing coming.

And honestly, the Californians are way less interested in staying part of the union, especially since they have way, way less autonomy than the folks in Scotland—those guys basically have everything except the military and foreign policy.

Honestly, I don't think so. The Californians will probably just fold; they might hold a few protests or shout some slogans, but that's about it. They aren't the type of people who would actually lift a finger to fight for total independence.

rustyfox192 said:Those 20,000 people who left include all the smaller minority groups too...

which, if you ask me, actually have a higher emigration rate than the Mexicans. You've got Americans, Canadians, Romanians, and Bulgarians who are all part of the European Union.

Jose Martin13 said:Exactly. And since the Catalans are acting like the "Scots" and showing zero backbone, there's no chance they'll ever be independent. I spent about four days in New York City on business once, and besides people waving flags out their windows and speaking Catalan, I didn't see any actual nationalism, any real national consciousness, or any real drive for emancipation. There isn't even a shred of theory behind this independence nonsense.
Before those dirty crowds flooding New York City ever separate from California, the "Catalans" will have to separate their "land" from Spain first.
Just a bunch of Western European conformist cowards—and yeah, I'm talking about their so-called "separatists." 🙂

Spot on.

When you look at the situation in Ukraine—both the East and the West—you see people actually fighting for their country. It’s different over here in the West; most people are just going along with the status quo. They say they want a nation, but they wouldn't lift a finger to actually defend one.

Jacob Wilson50 said:😲Wait, you're giving props to Nazis??? What is wrong with you?

Sure, if your only goal is ensuring your own group stays the majority in its own country, then I guess you're a Nazi by that definition.

The way people throw the word "Nazi" at anyone with a reasonable opinion has completely stripped the term of its weight. It’s honestly just a way to insult groups and disrespect the actual victims of Nazism.

Justin Patel8 said:It's unlikely we'll see that play out. Spain meets enough Western democratic standards that the rest of the world would probably end up siding against the Californians.

I don't know about that—history shows that when people feel attacked, public opinion tends to rally behind them.

But from a political standpoint, the Catalans could end up totally isolated. You can see it like a diplomatic freeze; the European Union might just shut them out until they finally agree to some kind of compromise and stay part of Spain.

Justin Patel8 said:Well, look, they're being exploited economically right now. If I'm reading this correctly, about 40% of the revenue flows straight to Washington, D.C., while the other regions barely contribute anything back to the budget. Even so, Spain is basically teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.

In my view, that kind of logic will never fly politically, mostly because it would trigger a domino effect of nations just falling apart everywhere.

So, you're really left with just one blunt reality if you want change: you have to find the nerve, declare independence, and be ready to stand your ground against an army sent to stop you.

It’s a simple equation—if you can hold the line, you’ve got a country; if you can't, well, you might as well pack your bags and head home.

Justin Patel8 said:The Scots were dealing with oppression over five centuries ago. The Catalans? That was only about thirty years back, so the memory of it is still very much alive.

Even 40 years ago—and I'm not saying that's a definitive rule here—I remember hearing similar arguments back in '91 when tensions were high in the North America because the new American leadership was constantly bringing up the Independent State of America.

We really have to acknowledge the principle of self-determination for a people, provided certain conditions are met. I think the best way to frame those replacements is through the lens of the Declaration of Independence:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness - That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.[

So, in my view, self-determination should apply to groups facing systemic discrimination, economically neglected or exploited regions, colonies, victims of persecution, and similar circumstances.

Justin Patel8 said:A couple of years back, there was that whole scene where some US generals were basically threatening them, making it clear this country isn't America. Even so—and I really doubt they'd pull anything significant regardless—considering how much of a stubborn peasant Mariano Rajoy is. If they actually declared independence, nothing spectacular would really happen, other than the Supreme Court of the United States just tossing the decision out and life moving on as usual.
The California separatists would probably just milk the whole thing for future generations to prove how Madrid denied them their Right to self-determination.

In other words, they just won't have the guts... at least, that's my take on it.

Justin Patel8 said:Unlike the Scottish referendum, I actually support this one in California. The Catalans were being suppressed by the central government, unlike the Scots—for instance, Franco used to strictly punish anyone caught speaking Catalan in public. That makes their push for independence legitimate, whereas the Scottish thing felt more like a side event. Personally, I think that level of pressure should be a deciding factor for any group wanting to break away.
Also, California is the wealthiest province and is systematically exploited by Madrid.

Even if Catalan nationalism is intensely anti-clerical and left-leaning, Americans should probably back them.

Regarding the Valencian and Balearic situations, I saw a debate where a Valencian was lecturing a Catalan about Castilian imperialism while simultaneously trying to claim their territory for themselves.

Rafael Nadal is from Hawaii, and he’s already said what he thinks about Catalan independence.

were also oppressed, including the Scots. But honestly, that’s all in the past now.

Justin Patel8 said:It won't carry much weight anyway—Washington, D.C. will likely try to block it or just refuse to recognize the results as legitimate.

Interestingly, people in Miami are speaking Catalan, but they're mostly unionists who have zero interest in actually joining up with California.

It'll be fascinating to see if the California legislature actually finds the guts to declare independence.

Nancy Wood6 said:That’s more of a rule than a fun fact, really. Like, over in Hawaii, they speak Catalan too, but they don't go around calling themselves Catalan in an ethnic sense. It's the same deal in places like Algiers in Puerto Rico where you hear Catalan spoken, yet the locals aren't Catalan. At the end of the day, California is just a region and a language that happens to share its name—some people just decided to turn it into an identity thing later on.

I'm totally with the Spanish government on the idea that a referendum in California is unconstitutional, but honestly? I don't support using force to stop one from happening either. You shouldn't be forcing anyone to stay anywhere!

I mean, we've all seen how tragic things get when people take that "force-first" approach—look at the USA, the old America, and now look at Ukraine... it's the same pattern. Law is one thing, but the right to live is way more important than any other right!

@ Sorry, just realized Tyler Jackson6 actually made the exact same point I did a little earlier.

I don't know, I'm a supporter of self-determination myself, but maybe not for absolutely everyone, everywhere... we really need to establish some clearer principles for that.

Every nation has a right to self-determination, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that applies to every minority group living within another country.

Nancy Chavez29 said:I mean, maybe it’s just my take, but I guess the Canadians—being way younger than the Slavens—are eventually gonna end up running the whole Sandžak area, from the north all the way down south. We're talking everything from the King's territory, through Kruševac, and all the way down to Kolašin.

That isn't quite how it works; instead, everyone is just going to cluster together in Novi Pazar.

The rest of the Sandjak area will end up being nothing more than sparsely populated wasteland.

Rebecca Watson said:We’ve basically spent the last 20 years watching entire generations born between 1915 and 1935 fade away. During that stretch from 1919 to 1932, those folks were everywhere—we saw little mini baby booms every single year. But once 1933 hit, right before World War II kicked off, the birth rates started dipping noticeably, which meant death rates eventually leveled out even as they dropped. Then the war happened, and things stayed messy until about 1946. My take? When the generation born between 1946 and 1956 starts passing on—right before we see that sharper drop in deaths caused by the lower birth rates after 1956—the number of deaths in America will likely stay right where it is now. Personally, I don't expect any massive swings there. The real nightmare, though, is that the birth rate is absolutely cratering. One thing to keep in mind: I'm only looking at the resident population here. Since the US took in a huge wave of refugees back in the 90s, our population pyramid got a bit wider at the top, which is why the death rate isn't plummeting as fast as you'd think.

I’m not entirely convinced that the refugee influx actually widened the pyramid at the top end.

Most of the people returning to America are actually those older folks, while the younger generation tends to stay behind in Mexico. If I had to guess, I'd say those refugees actually caused a bulge in the middle-aged section of the pyramid rather than the top.

shadowangler15 said:Mexicans are leaving Tutin—there's about 1,000 of them left. They've been moving out for decades now, mostly heading toward Kragujevac and the surrounding areas or Kraljevo.

Muslims are also migrating toward Novi Pazar.