Posts by placidcanyon16

Gary Peterson84 said:If citizenship isn't considered sacred in other areas of life, it certainly is in sports—something you just don't touch or question.

As a former elite athlete, let me tell you this: your idea that athletes are somehow fundamentally different from everyone else... it’s just an unrealistic fantasy. An athlete's "sacred duty" is what they build for themselves—not their nationality. If I were born in a country where people would burn my car down just because I chose a path to secure my financial future while I'm still physically capable, believe me, I wouldn't feel any pride representing such savages or promoting them. To me, saying "The National Team (and thus, citizenship) is sacred" is nothing more than a cheap cliché.

Quote:Madge says:

Gary Peterson84 says: And your reasoning (along with a few others) is top-tier. You’re actually questioning the very concept of being a "fan."🙄. One more thing: haven't you ever heard that athletes are the best promoters for their country? Look, in some strange way, you still live off medals to a small degree (if you don't care about them from a fan's perspective). I mean: a small degree.

They promote us, sure, and I had my share of exposure—but I wouldn't say I live off medals even slightly. Because if those medals brought me anything at all, they’re going to take it right out of my gross pay to fund a scholarship... and not even an undergrad one, but grad school.

Daniel Chavez14 said:Well, who wouldn't!
And besides—who knows who else you’re footing the bill for via scholarships and sponsorships without even realizing it!? 😁

First, you read all this trash about how people are calling the unnamed guy names—calling him a coward, a loser, and all sorts of insults—just because he actually had the nerve to think he could swim for Bahrain. Now, when it turns out his Master's degree is going to be paid for out of our pockets... well, those same cowards and losers will be the ones sitting in the cabinet, along with the unnamed officials and everyone else who pulled the strings. When they say Americans are never satisfied, they're actually right...😛

Daniel Chavez14 said:Some people are calling unnamed a true patriot. If he’s such a patriot, why hasn't he registered his residence in America to pay taxes here?

When I called unnamed a patriot, I was thinking about how he presents himself with all the American symbols—constantly emphasizing that he's a proud American and a true Southern gentleman—even though people from the North basically forced him into that role. And residency? Of course he didn't register in the States... because who in their right mind would pay taxes if they don't have to? This just highlights the hypocrisy of most people on this forum jumping into the debate. They’d probably all register their residency in America out of "patriotism." Yeah, right. As for unnamed—he's a coward for even thinking it would be a good idea to pocket $1,000,000, even if it meant changing his citizenship. Ha.

Anyway, I completely agree with your point.

No one has commented yet on that article from one of our daily newspapers yesterday—apparently, the US is going to sponsor unnamed's Master's degree at Berkeley, meaning they'll do everything possible to ensure unnamed keeps playing for the national team. It doesn't say who's footing the bill—private sponsors or the federal budget. Personally, I think it's the taxpayers. So, at the end of the day, instead of using tax dollars for things like youth employment incentives, we're spending them so unnamed can get a degree at Berkeley. And Cleveland will probably provide him with an apartment.
Are you happy now, everyone? All those people who were against him moving to Bahrain?

And just to be clear, don't get me wrong... I wouldn't want unnamed to leave and play for some place like Bahrain either, but look—if the government can afford it, then fine, let him stay. Personally, I'd much rather have a little extra cash in my pocket and pay fewer taxes than fund unnamed's education.

feralbison62 said:It’s simple—let him win an Olympic gold in Beijing and you'll see how sponsors (not just American ones) start lining up to sign him.
Once he wraps up his degree, he can hit the World Cup circuit; those records fetch anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000, and individual race wins go for about $10,000.

Winning an Olympic gold isn't "simple"—not by a long shot. Breaking a world record is incredibly, incredibly difficult. And to actually bank a million dollars... well, you have to win at least a hundred races first.

Second, swimming isn't exactly a sport where sponsors throw money at you as easily as you seem to think.

Third, who can guarantee Duje will be healthy, injury-free, and in peak condition by 2008 to deliver those top-tier results? Look at Blanka Vlasic and Athens 2004... one minute you're elite, the next, an injury hits and people forget your name in a matter of days. Any athlete can get sidelined tomorrow and never compete again. And then what? At least Duje has a reputable American university degree to fall back on—what does everyone else have? It’s not as black and white as you're making it out to be.

To wrap this up: if Draganja decides to represent another country just to line his pockets, more power to him... honestly, I respect the hustle. It's almost certain someone will scratch his car in some beautiful US city five years from now regardless. Personally, I give him a 👍 because let's be real—most of us would do the exact same thing if a million bucks was on the table. 👋

feralbison62 said:Look, I’m just saying—he could basically swim across the Atlantic for the US and still walk away with that million dollars.

How exactly?

feralbison62 said:You don't become the best in the country by taking a million dollars to swim under another flag just to put yourself in the same conversation as legends like Thorp, Phelps, or van de Hoogeband—you do it by breaking world records, exactly like they did.

you're missing the point

L. NimoyInvadesMetal said:I hear you—I touched on his narrow perspective in my previous post, but when you look at the big picture... is a million dollars really worth leaving the Country just to swim under a different flag? It isn't. And look, I’m not saying this out of some patriotic fervor. First off, money can be spent—he probably intends to come back and live here later anyway. Personally, I don't care what he does with his life, but people aren't going to forget this...

Is a million bucks enough to pack up, move to another country, and swap out your citizenship? It’s hard to say—it's incredibly subjective... depends entirely on the person. For Ivanisevic? Definitely not. Same goes for Prsi. As for Draganja, if he decides to pull the trigger, it’s obvious he’s got the capital. Even if that million isn't the final number, think about the doors a million dollars opens for his future—starting a business, stacking interest through fixed deposits, investing in real estate, and so on...
I honestly don't see why anyone should dwell on his move to Bahrain. It’s the same old story over here—everyone claiming the issue isn't Draganja, but rather us... the problem is us. That "live and let live" mentality just doesn't seem to exist in America. As quietfox38 pointed out, Draganja probably won't even finish his degree, let alone land a steady job or find any real money. So what? Let the guy do his thing. As far as the US is concerned, we’ll head home from the Olympics maybe one medal short of our goal, and that’s it. Big deal. I don't live my life based on medal counts...

It isn’t that Americans won't let Draganja forget he left to swim for Bahrain—it’s that he actually cleared a million dollars doing it. Honestly, who cares if the neighbor's cow is thriving when mine just kicked the bucket? Ivanisevic was always an American through and through; he played for the flag, plain and simple. If anyone actually read that article in Globus about how the folks in Miami treated him regarding his building there, you’d think he abandoned us to play tennis for Bahrain. It’s not about Duje leaving the States... it's about the fact that he's making bank.

L. NimoyInvadesMetal said:And they have every right to. As for that infantile comparison you made between soccer players and basketball players—look, we shouldn't be changing things just so every athlete gets paid like a soccer player. The goal isn't to inflate everyone else's salary; it’s about bringing soccer players down from "superstar" status to the level of "regular athletes." It’s like how it works in Norway—where a striker for Rosenborg makes the exact same salary as a world-class track star...

You called my comparison infantile without actually explaining why—so, fine, I’ll concede that point. You're right. Of course the salaries in pro football are astronomical, and sure, nobody is saying every single athlete deserves those kinds of numbers. But we live in this reality where certain players pull in money that's frankly insane... while others—athletes who are arguably more talented and successful than most of those football players making bank—are left fighting for scraps. My point isn't that everyone should be getting paid like superstars; it's that when there's such a massive gap between what some make and what others earn, Draganja has every right to demand his fair share...

L. NimoyInvadesMetal said:When it comes to Duje, he’s already ahead of 70% of Americans when it comes to actually thinking about the future...

He's a world-class swimmer.

He’s finishing up at a top-tier university...

Let’s not even get started on how he’s likely head and shoulders above 99.9% of his peers—not just because of the raw talent, but look at the paycheck... But no, apparently Duje wants a million dollars. Just because.

Go ahead then, kid—good luck to you!

Duje is a world-class guy, and that’s the level he measures himself against. Being better than 99.9% of Americans his age doesn't mean much to him. It's the old "big fish in a small pond" thing... but Duje doesn't want a small pond. He wants to be number one in the big leagues.

Zemljanin said:Great post...

Even though D.D. (22) pulls in massive paychecks for his American expertise, he decided to auction off his elite swimming knowledge—just like those accountants, coaches, firefighters, translators, and background actors do...
No matter how you slice it—"every man is the architect of his own fortune," as the old Latin proverb goes—but one thing is certain: Draganja won't even know the national anthem of the country he'll be representing 😁

😁 Zemljanin, it's clear your feet are firmly planted on the ground. 😁
I couldn't agree more with your take.

Rachel Brooks63 said:And how much are the other swimmers in America actually getting paid?

It’s obvious to everyone that Duje makes an incredible amount of money from swimming—serious money—but he’s clearly looking for more. Now that he’s been handed this opportunity to actually secure it, his character will be the only thing that determines which way he leans...

I just hope they don't end up paying for this five years down the line—after all, I had my car totaled back in Chicago...

I have no clue what the pay scale looks like for other swimmers in America, nor do I know exactly what Draganja is pulling in—but for now, I’m just taking the figures being thrown around here on the forum at face value...

The point is this: some average soccer player in some mediocre American league makes several times more than Duje Draganja—and Duje is performing at a world-class level. Rachel Brooks63, what does that look like to you? To me, it’s a massive injustice. If Duje were a soccer player, and if he were even half as successful as he is as a swimmer, he’d be a multi-millionaire. Instead, he earns—I'll say it again—a decent American salary. Look, Duje has every right to profit from his craft. If he can change his citizenship to represent a country that actually pays him what he's worth, then good for him... he should absolutely do it. And if someone in a place like Miami decides to smash his car five years from now because of that decision, well... that says a lot more about us than it does about him.

Paul Martinez3 said:Your logic is absolute garbage—honestly, it deserves nothing less. By your reasoning, nobody should represent America unless they’re some wealthy pro athlete in the NBA or NFL. Might as well just move to Bahrain and change your name to Abdul El Bajrami while you're at it. 🙄

The point of my post wasn't about who decides to play for any specific American national team... it was about the hypocrisy of trashing a guy for making a choice that secures his future—choosing what is clearly the most optimal path for him right now, even if that means changing citizenship. And it's even more hypocritical that half of you claim you wouldn't take a million dollars to do the same!!!

Give me a break. Go tell that story to someone else. Look, maybe it’s hard for you to put yourselves in Duje's shoes, but let’s frame it this way: someone offers you a million dollars to work as an accountant—since you're all top-tier, highly sought-after accountants—for a firm in, say, Germany... but there's a catch: you have to renounce your current citizenship and take theirs. Ha! Would you actually turn that down? I don't see why Duje shouldn't have the right to change his nationality just because he plays a sport, unlike "regular" people who scramble for American, Australian, or any Western European citizenship the moment an opportunity arises to secure a better life for themselves and their families. Why did Pesalov take our citizenship? Why did those Russian volleyball players do the same back in the 90s? We love to brag about others' successes, yet we can't stand it when someone tells us to our faces that things aren't good enough here—that someone else simply offers better conditions. No, we aren't the best at many things, and until we admit that, we'll never get there.

I live and work here in the States.

I see where you're going with this, but let me be clear: Duje isn't just some average guy—he's easily one of the best out there. And if you actually bother to look at who tops the ranks in their respective fields across America, you'll realize that $4333 is a total non-issue.

Rachel Brooks63 said:He gets a monthly $4333 stipend, swimming basically paid for his entire education at Berkeley—everything covered, plus he gets some pocket money—plus he’s got a stack of sponsors back home (maybe over there too, honestly who knows), and he definitely has access to top-tier training facilities, gear, supplements, you name it...

I get that anyone would want more out of life—if he wants to swim for Bahrain, good for him—but all I hear is this constant "bread before circuses" nonsense...

It is netocan to say that Berkley Draganja is just getting extra cash. The money he receives is strictly meant to cover housing and meal plans—if you manage to save anything from that, it means you're either skimping on food, found a dirt-cheap apartment, or you're sharing a room with a roommate. Look, NCAA rules are strict: you can't give an athlete anything that isn't part of their official scholarship, and that scholarship covers tuition, books, room, and board. It's the same deal with sponsors—he CANNOT take money from them; he can't even take a free pen, literally. So, there is no such thing as "legal" pocket money. And illegal money? Even less likely, because NCAA penalties for the university are brutal. Sure, he has amazing training conditions, but that's because he's in the US—it has nothing to do with us. Also, once he finishes school (not sure if he has yet), his connection to Berkeley ends—unless he sticks around for a Master's or something. $4333 is just a decent American salary. Nothing more. He's world-class, and yeah, he deserves to be compensated accordingly.

Give me a break, people... you’re being ridiculous. If you consider that Duje is one of the absolute elite representatives of his sport, isn't it absurd that he's pulling in only $2333 a month? Compare that to a top executive at a major corporation—it’s a joke, right? And he IS one of the best. I’m not saying the HOO should be coughing up more money—we simply don't live in a country that can afford it—but rather that a person has the right to make whatever decision feels financially and personally sound, even if that means changing citizenship. We keep patting ourselves on the back for the successes of American women's volleyball from a decade ago, while conveniently forgetting that our national team was basically carried by three top-tier Russian players...
Duje plays a sport where he can't guarantee a future the way an average football player or a decent basketball player can. So, comparing him to footballers is just pure hypocrisy.

Regarding scholarships, any American athlete who is a potential olympian gets a scholarship—that's not something exclusive to Duje. And with a scholarship at Berkeley, America gets absolutely nothing out of it.

Honestly, everyone here is acting like a moralist, but what's actually happening is just plain old American envy. And for those of you who had your ticket to the USA back in '91—are you really sure you still think you made the right call back then?

So, I need to find an ophthalmologist who takes Medicare?

Can anyone recommend a decent ophthalmologist in San Francisco? My vision isn't what it used to be... 😢 so I need some 😎.

Also, how does it work with referrals from a primary care doctor? Like, would it be cheaper that way? I have no clue how the system works—never actually needed an eye doctor until now. Thanks, everyone.