14 posts shown.
feralbadger37 said:But what happened once those four months were up? Was it either join the faith or face the consequences?
Come on, Rachel Sanders2, you’ve always been one of the most level-headed people on this forum, so don't start getting caught up in the fanaticism now...😁
Just read the whole Surah Al-Tawba
https://gusic.tripod.com/kuran_bos/
Anthony Perez9 said:You could probably learn a thing or two from them... if you're actually into that sort of stuff.
Personally, when it comes to your own life and how you choose to live it, I wouldn't trust anyone else to make those calls—not a scholar, a preacher, a quantum physicist, or whoever else.
I used to devour books like crazy, right up until a certain sir basically "threw" my library out the window... and honestly, my ex-wife was totally on board with that (she knew all too well how much of a bookworm I am).
Now? I stick to lighter topics. It's funny, really... because everything you find in the small things is already tucked away in the big picture.
Anthony Perez9 said:The problem is, the whole Bible is just one big "context." It's a product of its era and the people putting it together. There isn't anything existing outside of that bubble.
There's no such thing as divine verses coming straight from God's mouth. No eternal truths or absolute beauty—it's all just subjective to whoever happens to be reading.
That's why the reader's perspective is really the only thing that matters. 👍
I definitely agree that the reader's perspective plays a huge role, but that's only half the battle... you really have to understand the historical context of when things were written and grasp the original intention behind them.
That's why it's much better to read the Bible alongside a detailed commentary.
But even then, you run into a massive variety of interpretations... you've got the rationalist schools (like the Mu'tazila), the moderate middle-ground approaches (like the Ash'ari and Maturidism traditions... plus those four legal schools), the literalists (what some call modern-day 'Salafis'... or let's be honest, Wahhabis), and then the Sufi interpreters, too.
Keith Morgan10 said:I’m honestly not sure there’s any context that can justify killing. It feels pretty binary to me—either you kill or you don't. You're either a killer or you aren't. If you think there is some justification there, please, let me know? I'm not trying to be aggressive or insult anyone here, I'm genuinely just curious.
Taking the lives of other people, people who were created by God, feels like going against God himself. It’s almost like you're acting against God. I feel like Americans should understand that better.
Think about when Muhammad entered Mecca. He acted just like Joseph did—he showed mercy and forgave his brothers. For those who hadn't embraced the teachings yet, he gave them a four-month grace period to make their decision.
Keith Morgan10 said:Don't the Bible and the Quran incite violence? 😁 Which versions have you actually been reading?
In the Old Testament, there are countless instances where killing and destruction are explicitly called for.
And in the Quran, it says something like this:
"Once the sacred months have passed, slay the polytheists wherever you find them,
capture them, besiege them, and take them at every pass! But if they repent
and perform their prayers and give zakat, leave them alone, for Allah truly
is forgiving and merciful"
The main difference I see between the Old Testament and the Quran is that in the Old Testament, the people ordered to kill were usually doing something truly heinous and revolting—you can read those details between the lines—whereas in the Quran, the target is anyone who is a polytheist or an infidel.
To me, the problem isn't really the Quran or the Bible itself, but rather how people interpret them. Someone comes along, finds a specific passage that fits their agenda, and just starts hammering away with it. Looking back at history, you see Christians persecuting other Christians, or radical Muslims going after anyone who doesn't follow their exact way of life.
There are probably plenty of highly educated, scholarly people who understand these things much better than the average person, but they feel they can't speak out publicly because of the dogmatic grip of the institutions they belong to. It’s almost a universal trait among scientists regarding the flat earth theory—there's this heavy silence. Those who do speak up tend to be either very condescending or they just loudly mock anyone else. Well, it's written in the Bible that the whole world is under the influence of evil, so I don't see why certain institutions, including religious ones, should be any different.
On a side note, there’s a scientist/professor from Mexico living in Canada who speaks openly about this (Tomislav Terzin), though even with him, you can tell he’s being incredibly careful about his wording and how he presents himself (he always adds disclaimers). He's caught between his academic institution and his religious ties.
There was actually a pretty serious debate in Mexico recently—I can't recall the name of the channel—where a few highly educated professors went head-to-head with flat earthers; some of them even performed experiments. I wouldn't say one side clearly won, but it was definitely interesting to watch. I'll post the link or the video title once I track it down.
Here it is, there are several episodes...
It’s quite obvious that one group is attacking with general logic (without really diving into the depths of science), while the other is hitting hard with modern scientific theories and complex calculations, yet they seem unable or unwilling to look at the broader logical picture. Regardless, it’s worth a look.
Look, if you actually want to understand these verses, you have to look at the context in which they were originally revealed.
Paul Ross2 said:I’m lost. What language is this sentence even written in—and is it actually a coherent sentence? While the Greeks certainly valued the Laconic style, "Laconic" feels like a complete misnomer in this context.
My bad, I'm typing this on my phone and autocorrect is driving me crazy!
What the sentence is trying to get at is that you just can't quantify inspiration with math.
You just can't put that mathematical spark into words
So, picture this: some guy pulls a heist, and the cops catch him red-handed.
When they grab him, he tries to play the "it wasn't me" card, claiming he’s innocent because God preordains everything... so, technically, he couldn't have done anything wrong, right? Well, the judge just looked him dead in the eye and said, "Well, it was also preordained that we'd catch you and throw the book at you for that robbery."
Talk about a reality check! Just like that, the thief lost his whole excuse for trying to use divine destiny to justify his shady behavior.
Don't believe everything you hear—he’s very much alive and kicking!
rowdyhawk10 said:In the end, after digging deep into the facts and weighing all the evidence, everyone finally reached the same conclusion: the Dervish Lodge shouldn't be closed down.
Who am I? Well, that’s the million-dollar question, isn't it? Just a human being navigating this wild journey, trying to find the Truth along the way. Think of me like a traveler stopping by a roadside diner for a quick chat—just someone here to share some thoughts, spark a little conversation, and maybe offer a bit of perspective when the road gets bumpy. I'm just a soul looking for connection!
You? Everyone here?
Basically, here’s the deal... the folks in charge are trying to tell us indirectly right here on this forum: you don't actually have any rights here at all (it's always "your posts belong to us," blah blah, blah). Their excuse? Oh, it’s because they own the place... blah blah, because of this and that.
People have been posting on this forum thinking, "Oh, I've been here for years, I started so many threads, I really contributed to the community," and all that. Honestly? None of that matters. It doesn't mean a thing unless people actually step up—meaning, someone leads a movement to pull others along—to seriously challenge a moderator's or admin's position. So, my advice? Stop living in the illusion of having "freedom" on this site. There isn't any. You only have as much freedom as the authorities (the mods, the admins, etc.) decide to let you have. This isn't some "revolutionary" revelation; I'm just pulling back the curtains on this whole "free speech forum" facade. (To be fair, it hasn't always been this way here, but the power structure has shifted... the current setup has way too much ambition... they've got far too much blood in their eyes.)
rowdyhawk10 said:Look, there are a few key points to consider regarding how this whole thing came up. First off, we totally respect a new user's wish to just close a thread. But we also have to keep in mind (and honestly, you guys should too) that every single sub-forum, every thread, and every individual post is actually property of the domain AmericanForum.com. We have a dedicated crew of about 50 expert moderators keeping discussions in order, while our registered members jump into conversations whenever they feel like it—or choose not to at all! At its heart, this forum is entirely voluntary.
The Dervish Lodge on this forum isn't owned by the AmericanForum.com domain. God has provided ways to ensure that the content (which primarily belongs to the forum members—the actual authors) can be preserved in its original form, including all the texts and details. (And hey, that’s not even hard to do nowadays since the forum is public)!
There’s a lot going on around the site lately, yet the Religion subforum hasn't seen a single post about it—which means the Dervish Lodge section within that subforum has gone quiet too. The reasons behind this are so tangled and complex that I don't even feel like typing them out! But look, unless we're talking about obvious bullies, nobody should ever feel like they have to walk on eggshells when posting here. People react to that "fear" in all sorts of ways, from acting out to just tip-toeing around.
The Dervish Lodge section always had its own unique flair, or at least that's how it felt. But it only takes one topic hitting close to home for a user, and if there are a few more like that? Well, then you've got a real mess on your hands... along with jealousy, envy, and all that other stuff that usually follows anything truly refined. It reminds me of what an old grandmother might tell her granddaughter: "Sweetheart, you are pure silk, but watch yourself—there are rough hands out there in the world."
On the flip side, in an attempt to preserve the "idea of Islam"—which really does require a certain level of discipline (and honestly, that's a good thing)—this harder, more rigid school of thought emerges. Now, in my humble opinion, this stricter group always seems to lack a bit of "methodology," or rather, balance. If you lean too hard on that "toughness" (which inherently involves applying pressure), you run the risk of snapping the branch entirely. The awkward part is that when you snap it, you lose the good parts right along with the bad. From the perspective of Sufism, I suppose you have to hand things over to those who are truly "seasoned"—those who have walked the long road and actually know where the traps and pitfalls are hidden.
So, we're stuck somewhere between that rigidity and that refinement, trying to find a middle ground. How? Hmm, I don't know, I haven't a clue (even though both sides make sense to me and I get where they're coming from). I guess we should just aim for whatever serves the greatest good for everyone here. But hey, who am I to say what that is? We're back to the seasoned versus the unseasoned again.
Anyway, since this whole battle has become so messy—where nobody knows who's buying the drinks or paying the tab (the state of the forum is pretty chaotic and anarchic right now)—I think that’s exactly why Dervin wants to close this thread. It’s all somewhat connected to closing down the "Banquet Hall" and banning Humanside (but hey, let's not be jerks, heavens forbid).
Whatever. I'm of the same mind as the Dervish, and regardless of the reasons or how people view that decision, the will of those who started this thread should be respected.
wearyhawk222 said:I’m not entirely sure what’s going on here... but I really wanted to reach out and check in with you all
Peace be upon you all
And peace be upon you too!