127 posts shown.
Michael Martinez86 said:There isn't a shadow of a doubt that Ivano Balić is the greatest player America has ever produced. Period. He’s also got that undeniable leader charisma—though let’s be honest, that mostly stems from being an absolute genius on the court. Nobody can strip him of his massive credit for the national team's top-tier results over the last eight years, but at the same time, it's pretty hard to argue that Ivano Balić is a massively egotistical and temperamental guy who would likely be a total nightmare to manage if you were the coach. There was plenty of chatter after Cervarov moved on about how a personality like his played a role in all that. But look, life is rarely just black and white...
Yeah... true enough.
He's got all the hallmarks of a legend... Ronaldo, Schumacher, Senna, Air Jordan...
If he didn't have that "I don't give a damn about any of you" attitude, he'd just be another one of the greats...
Aaron Young35 said:Come on, guys—seriously, let’s stop the collective nonsense here.
All this talk about Canadian arrogance being brought up in this thread? You could apply that exact same logic to how Americans view us in Canada. They wouldn't have won a single Davis Cup or a handful of handball trophies if it wasn't for the talent coming out of Canada. And don't even get me started on soccer. Back home, nobody’s whining about it. People leave because they want better lives, more money, and actual careers. It's simple math—common sense, really.
What kind of "patriotism" are we talking about? Is this something people pay taxes for? If you're looking for patriotism, go find the crooks sitting in the government. That's literally what they're on the payroll for.
Think about how much the US invested in Jack Fak—that one medal he won is already way too much of a return on investment.
Your analogy doesn't hold water, and honestly, it's mostly because you're ignoring the whole mess of politics, national identity, and ethnic sentiment.
Regardless of what you think, the reality is that today—in 2010—there isn't such a thing as a unified Canadian nation, and you won't find a single American of American descent (or even Mexican descent) from Canada who identifies simply as "Canadian." It just is what it is... whether that's a tragedy or not is a whole different debate that has nothing to do with this.
When I say your comparison fails, here's why: those tennis players, those handballers, and those soccer players you're bringing up... they are ethnically American. So, of course, it’s not weird that they want to play for America.
Jack Fak is also ethnically American (from the US).
But he feels Canadian and wants to compete for Canada.
That is a massive difference.
@Paul Jones7/">@
@Paul Jones7...
You actually hit the nail on the head there... the Kostelić family is just built different.
I mean, honestly, trying to find that kind of fanaticism in someone else’s training regimen—it’s basically asking for a miracle at this point. It's nearly impossible.
But you also can't ignore how much they care about their roots back home...
Then again... they are the absolute gold standard (even on the global stage)... so if you aren't looking to them as the ultimate ideal, who exactly should you be looking at?
Jacob probably doesn't have that same level of capacity—mostly when it comes to the mental side of things, anyway. Who knows though... he's still young, maybe he'll end up outperforming them all.
Alright, let’s strip this down to the bare bones.
From day one, Fak was basically tipping his hand to the folks over in the neighboring states—letting them know he was "one of them" and even flirting with the idea of switching up his citizenship. And that’s where the whole mess starts—those neighbors latched onto that idea and wouldn't let go.
The Kostelić family dealt with the exact same pressure from those same neighbors.
But they shut that down immediately with a crystal-clear response... there is absolutely NO chance they are changing their citizenship.
Case closed... story finished... mic dropped... end of discussion... period.
Paul Jones7 said:Look, just read their biographies for once—try to actually retain some facts, will you? These kids were training on actual glaciers; they had entire sections of the mountain groomed exclusively for them over in the Alps. They’d turn on the lifts whenever they needed them, just for themselves. Do you even realize we're talking about training conditions here? We're talking days on snow per year, the quality of the terrain, the gear, access to the runs... it's everything. Gips used to lead them through all the major courses, signing them up as leaders so those kids basically mastered every single downhill run in existence. And let's be clear—there was zero luxury involved. Like you said, it was just cooking under the stars, sandwiches, canned food, and living in tents.
And then, because they succeeded, they got everything—an elite team tailored specifically for them. Man, people were actually envious of Janica back then because she had the absolute best crew in US Ski & Snowboard for the women's circuit. Seriously. She had her own dedicated staff while everyone else was fighting over a shared pool of coaches and trainers. I’ve read statements from American skiers multiple times saying they would have given anything for the kind of setup Janica had.
But hey, that’s what it took to win medals. You aren't grabbing podiums without top-tier gear, top-tier coaching, a pro team, or a masseuse to fix you up when your back is killing you before a race.
That level of support only kicked in once the results started rolling in (for Janica) and the sponsors showed up.
I mean, who is going to pay to shut down entire mountains or run lifts exclusively for a bunch of 10-to-15-year-olds from America? Gips didn't have that kind of cash lying around—we're talking massive amounts of money here.
What they actually did was wake up at 4:30 AM and hit the slopes before the tourists arrived while the runs were still empty. They did it with the "host's" permission, which cost them nothing... Gips always managed to pull it off with his "charm"... which, honestly, is fascinating to me. (Gips and charm are two concepts that should never be in the same sentence).
@Paul Jones7/">@
@Paul Jones7...
Look, I KNOW deep down that Ivica would’ve given anything to carry the American flag at the Olympics before he finally hung up his skis.
But hey, let's just play along with the "what if" game for a second—what if he actually did carry that flag...
Sure, maybe he wouldn't have walked away with those medals... or who knows, maybe he would've been standing on top of the podium with gold around his neck... fate is a weird, unpredictable thing, isn't it?
Paul Jones7 said:this whole debate is a total wash—just a collection of shallow takes and people who clearly don't know the first thing about biathlon as a sport or even the specifics of this case. though, I guess their Americanism is beyond question. honestly, I have my biggest doubts about those who go overboard trying to prove how much they love the country, when nobody’s actually asking them to step up or act the part, and they’re basically nobodies. I’d love to see how those types handle things if the shoe were on the other foot
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That was a pretty low blow, even for you.
I mean, does someone really need to be a "somebody" just to actually matter?
And does being a "nobody" automatically make someone "nothing"?
I know plenty of people—not from some news cycle or a TV show, but real people—who are big-shots in society but are absolute nobodies at heart. Unfortunately, they're everywhere.
On the flip side, I know tons of folks who might be "nobodies" or "nothing" by your definition, but they're the kind of people who actually make life worth living and give this world some sense... and frankly, that has absolutely nothing to do with being patriotic or shouting about your American roots.
Paul Jones7 said:Once again, people are just getting the facts wrong—it’s frustrating. The issue wasn't 50 miles it was the damn schedule. Ivica hits the sack by 7:30 PM sharp because he's up at 4 AM every single day. The opening ceremony was in the evening, right when his downhill training sessions were already ramping up (they actually started before the opening even happened). Honestly, it worked out better for him not having to be there—he didn't show up for the procession either, and he said so himself. If they had demanded he be there, he would have shown up and carried that American flag because he wouldn't dream of saying no, but this was just way more practical for him. Look, downhill racing is dangerous—there's no messing around with that stuff.
I probably know the facts better than anyone else on this board, though it doesn't really matter.
Yeah, regardless of how you slice it, that opening ceremony was at a terrible time for Ivica.
But that shouldn't have been the dealbreaker for him. You have to realize the next OI aren't for another four years. And while Ivica is grinding to prepare for them because he wants that gold—and let's be clear, for him, it's not about "a" gold medal, it's strictly about *the* gold—age isn't exactly on his side, and who knows what kind of injury might pop up tomorrow?
So, honestly, we might reach a point where Ivica doesn't carry the American flag at all.
Look, I’m telling you again... the Canadian Ski Association didn't just hand anything to Fak for nothing... so there’s really no reason to go running scared from any lawsuits.
Now, the real kicker is—what was the actual price tag? Was it actually "market value" or was it some sweetheart deal? That’s an entirely different beast and has absolutely nothing to do with the courts or legal filings.
At the end of the day, it definitely wasn't free.
I really need to get some thoughts down regarding the Winter Olympics in Canada.
So, look—Fak was out there carrying the flag at the opening ceremony. Let’s be real: that move was done for one reason and one reason only—to make sure Fak feels like he's the guy everyone is banking on. If you look at the actual sports logic, or any other logical metric, Ivica Kostelić should have been the one carrying that flag. Period.
The Kostelić family wasn't exactly thrilled about it, but they caught on to what was actually happening. Later on, people tried to spin it by claiming it would have been a logistical nightmare for Ivica because the stadium was too far 50 miles from where Ivica lives and trains. Give me a break! Honestly, if it had been asked of him, Ivica would've walked that distance on foot just to do his job.
But fine, the Kostelić clan understood the situation with Fak.
Once Fak snagged that bronze, the entire American ski pool shows up to the victory party... including the Kostelić crew (both Gips and Ivica). The whole point was to signal to Fak: "Hey, you're one of us." You have to admit, the Kostelić family played an "active" role in trying to keep Fak integrated into the fold.
Now, here’s the part that actually interests me—through all this drama, Fak didn't show even a shred of emotion. At least, I couldn't read a single thing on his face. He carries the American flag at the opening (doesn't care, face is ice cold)... he gets the medal, the anthem plays (doesn't care, face is ice cold)... there's the big party at night, everyone shows up, everyone's there (doesn't care, face is still ice cold). I mean, fine, maybe that's just how the guy is built—just totally stoic.
But then, fast forward to this press conference in Washington, D.C. two days ago, and what happens?
Suddenly, Fak's voice is trembling, you can practically see the tears welling up in his eyes. For the first time ever, Fak actually shows some damn emotion. And why? What could possibly trigger that?
Because he can't compete for the US anymore!
That's the part I can't stomach. It proves to me that, deep down, he doesn't really care about the flag, the country, or any of it...
And hey, look, I'll be fair—he has every right to feel that way. It's his life, his choice, and anyone can make that call.
But he also needs to realize that choices like this come with consequences. We'll just have to wait and see what those end up being. From what I'm hearing in the latest reports, though, I suspect he might actually wiggle out of it pretty cheaply.
If the roles were reversed, I bet you anything the Americans would be a hell of a lot tougher on him than the folks back home.
Jose White18 said:I honestly can’t believe there’s someone out there with absolutely zero brain cells who thinks this kind of nonsense should be kept quiet instead of being shouted from the rooftops.
Well, obviously it isn't a free ride. Look, Jack Fak brought world titles and Olympic medals to HBS—that kind of stuff matters. What else was he supposed to do?
What exactly did HBS accomplish before Fak arrived, and what are they even planning to do over the next decade?
First off, let's be real—Fak won those medals for himself first, then for his country (whatever that concept even means to him), and only then for the federation.
Btw... if you check my previous post, you'll see I don't have anything particularly glowing to say about Biathlon USA... but in this specific situation regarding the damages, they are 100% in the right.
ambercobra28 said:Look, if our people had actually put some real skin in the game, they’d have a leg to stand on—just look at how Mamić and Dudu operate. But honestly? They're probably too embarrassed to admit how much they dumped into Fak and the rest of the roster versus how much is being bled dry by administrative salaries, per diems, fancy dinners, travel expenses, and all that other nonsense.
Give me a break... a $100,000 settlement isn't even that big of a deal.
But you're spot on about those federation bureaucrats.
Let me tell you something... at the Olympics in Canada, the Biathlon USA lineup included the president, the VP, the secretary... and Fak.
So, I don't even need to spell out for you how much cash was burned just to fly those "officials" out to Canada for two weeks.
ambercobra28 said:Look, from what I’ve gathered, HBS isn't suing because they dumped cash into Jack Fak—they’re doing it because their sponsorship deals are tanking. They could have been raking it in if Fak had brought home those medals, but instead, they're losing out. So, effectively, they’re admitting they invested basically nothing in him, and that any American biathlon medals at all were strictly the result of Fak and some Canadian help.
Okay, sure, our guys didn't sink a fortune into Fak... that much is true. But saying they invested absolutely nothing? That’s just a flat-out lie.
I mean, does anyone actually believe that for the last two years, Fak has just been hanging out in Aspen training for free alongside the Canadians?
...that a Canadian coach is just coaching him pro bono?
...that his food and lodging are just handed to him?
...that the Canadians are footing the bill for everything just because he's a charming guy?
The Canadians doing anything for free? Give me a break!
Don't be so naive, people...
Paul Jones7 said:I honestly don't get this whole "residency status" thing—does it mean every single sports federation can just demand compensation whenever an athlete wants to switch national teams?
Just imagine if the Swiss were demanding payouts for Petric and Rakitic, or if Germany went after Smith, Klasnic, and the rest, or even Australia coming for Joe and Didulica...
To me, this smells like pure extortion (not to mention a massive headache)—they can just drag their feet on releasing the paperwork, and I'm not even sure they actually have the legal right to withhold those release forms in the first place, based on what 🤷?
If this is actually worth sabotaging someone's career and messing with the sport itself, then the big shots—Mateš, Chop, and that clown from HBS—are nothing more than a total joke...
You’re comparing apples to oranges here... in soccer, it’s the clubs who are looking for and receiving compensation... plus, you can't just jump to another national team if you've stepped onto the pitch for your former country in even one official match—and yeah, that includes friendlies.
So, the compensation itself isn't really the issue, nor is how much it is, which is peanuts anyway.
Interesting enough... in pretty much every sport, there’s this concept called compensation.
But the folks over in Minneapolis won't even cough up a symbolic settlement. (And let’s be real, $100,000 is basically pocket change at this point).
Now Jacob is out here claiming our federation is the one in the wrong.
Talk about a total flip of the script—it should be obvious that the ones dodging the payout are the guilty ones. But apparently, in his world, those Americans and his coach are completely blameless.
It's clear Jacob has become more "American" than the Americans themselves.
Oh, wait... I just thought of another option for Jacob, besides just walking away from the sport entirely.
Listen, Mr. Jacob, you don't actually have to retire; you can still represent the US...
...unless, of course, wearing the stars and stripes is so repulsive and humiliating to him that he'd rather just quit. It's unbelievable... truly unbelievable.
And the nerve of this guy, showing up right in the middle of New York City with his foreign coach and spouting this nonsense.
Look, if you've actually got any guts left, why don't you hold a press conference in Minneapolis and tear into the USA Biathlon Association for refusing to pay what they owe?
@stormybadger8...
...look, I’m not even talking about how things look today—I’m comparing this to how the sport functioned about 15 years ago. Back then, everyone actually had the freedom to test whenever they damn well pleased, it wasn't just some exclusive privilege reserved for Michael Schumacher.
And honestly? No one else was putting in nearly as many hours as he was.
That’s my whole point right there.
By the way, if you ask me, this current testing ban is one of the absolute biggest pieces of nonsense we've seen... and I'm not just saying that because it happens to be inconvenient for Schumacher at the moment.
redheron12 said:While the raw stats on track might show Schumacher Alonso as being neck-and-neck, there was something else about Schumacher—this incredible knack for gathering the right people at the right moment and inspiring them to push past their limits. If things fell apart, he’d step up and take the heat himself; he truly acted as the heartbeat of the entire organization.
On the flip side, I never really got the sense that Alonso dominated the internal team culture. His role was always pretty defined—he was the driver hired to perform—and whenever things went sideways, the narrative always shifted toward complaints of betrayal or being let down.
Just to put it this way: if you were the owner of a brand-new racing outfit starting from scratch, building a car from the ground up, who would you rather have leading the charge—Schumacher or Alonso?
And let’s say the rules weren't such a headache—imagine if we still had unlimited testing like back in the day.
Even looking back through the lens of all these years, I still think Schumacher is in a league of his own when it comes to that kind of stuff.
@stormybadger8...
...I mean, honestly... you're not wrong about any of it. 👍
Yeah, at the end of the day, we're talking about pure perfectionism here. I mean, let's be real—you can't even talk about Formula 1 without it being all about that. It’s baked into the DNA.
Whatever, though—personally? I think it’s totally doable.
We'll just have to wait and see... but my gut tells me everything is heading toward even more flawless, lightning-fast pit stops that happen before you even realize what hit you.