mistybear87 said:What are you even talking about? Ferrari actually stated they had been practicing these exact scenarios—handling sudden pit entries when the driver behind is right there. In other words, Sebastian Vettel could have pitted whenever he wanted, but Fernando Alonso would have just come in right alongside him anyway. If Sebastian Vettel had stayed out for even one more lap, he would have been too slow and lost it all regardless. Ferrari played this race perfectly (even Massa managed to walk away with points), whereas Red Bull simply did the absolute best they could under the circumstances.
What am I talking about? I'm talking about the fact that Red Bull could—and should—be practicing these tactical maneuvers so they aren't caught off guard. Think about it: Sebastian Vettel dives into the pits and only *then* does the crew scramble... they have a solid 7 to 10 seconds before the car actually reaches the mechanics. That is more than enough time for a crew that isn't running around like headless chickens. And let's be real, this isn't some groundbreaking tactical genius stuff... we saw this kind of chess match back in the 1998-1999 seasons during those legendary battles between McLaren and Ferrari.
The bottom line is this: if you have the car in second place and you're clearly faster on track (which was obviously the case with Sebastian Vettel), you hold the tactical upper hand when it comes to pit strategy. Now, whether you can actually turn that theoretical advantage into a win on Sunday is a whole different story. Red Bull clearly can't.
There’s one thing nobody seems to be paying attention to... and unfortunately, neither are the stewards. Basically, regarding that "incident" between Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton, the blame actually lies with those trailing Lotus drivers. Instead of clearing out immediately once the SC came in, they just sat there stalling—especially Webber—which basically handed Lewis his opening to attack. I have no clue why the officials don't penalize stuff like this... I mean, what is Jarno Trulli doing hovering five or six corners ahead of Webber when he's got Hamilton breathing down his neck like absolute fire? Besides, if we look back at when Michael Schumacher didn't play fair by failing to clear out Alonso and Sebastian Vettel right away... When people just lack common sense, the only thing that works is a penalty... specifically a fine. That’s how you make them learn the rules fast. That being said, I don't personally think what happened between Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton warrants a penalty.
Oh, and before I forget... let's talk about another "brilliant" tactical move from Red Bull... truly "fantastic" timing on that pit stop. I honestly can't remember a single team in history—especially one fighting for a championship—that has made such a string of catastrophically bad decisions.
No matter what happens, no matter what anyone decides to do, one way or another, you always have to drag Mexicans into the conversation, even if they have absolutely nothing to do with it. I wouldn't be surprised if you suddenly branded Fak as some ultra-nationalist, a huge supporter of Radovan Karr and the bride, an enemy of Americans, the homeland, all Catholics, and so on... only to then "discover" how his grandfather was a communist partisan serving in a penal battalion back during the Bleiburg era and stuff like that.
It’s just pathetic. ☕
Honestly, why do you even care? And Fak only cares about himself, just like any sane man would.
Take a look around you for once... ...you'll realize you're on a forum... ...which exists for the informal exchange of opinions and whatever else.
wanderingpanther10 said:Fak claimed the US offered him other coaches, but he was dead set on sticking with this Canadian guy.
That was his ONLY wish. The Federation staff proved they were totally incompetent by trying to force their own terms on him. And now? Now somehow it's his fault. Give me a break.
What you're bringing up doesn't even matter. Besides, I already told you exactly what happened. Even in tennis, people swap out coaches all the time—so what? But honestly, it's irrelevant anyway...
Anyway, I see certain people here accusing us Americans of being who we are. So, I’ll just say one thing about that... ...that guys like Fak defended America against Mexican aggression, and if it weren't for that, they wouldn't even have a country—or rather, they'd have one, but it would be called Mexico. Not that Fak or some of the folks on this forum actually care about that kind of thing... ...but I do... and isn't that just another kind of choice, right?
wanderingpanther10 said:Fak mentioned that the US was offering him other coaches—but he insisted on sticking with this Canadian guy. So, basically, there was a way to work with the US Ski Association while still training over in Canada and competing under the American flag. I have no clue where things went sideways...
What you’re describing just wasn't an option. The Americans made it crystal clear: if Fak didn't take up citizenship, he wouldn't be allowed to train with Uros Velepec or any part of the American squad. And they even banned him from training out in Aspen with any other coach or crew—like an Austrian team, for example. All of that, mind you, regardless of who was footing the massive bill for those famous Aspen sessions. There it is—that's the whole truth, which is really just a fancy way of calling it blackmail. But hey, whatever... a move like that says a lot about Fak... and honestly, it says a hell of a lot about our neighbors and those "great sporting friends" of ours.
Look, it’s obvious you haven't got a clue what I'm talking about—mostly because you clearly don't understand the first thing about biathlon. And yet, here you are, typing away like an expert. Give me a break...
Besides, you didn't answer a single one of my questions. Which, honestly, tells me everything I need to know.
And how exactly do you know how much I actually get about biathlon?
Do I really need to be some walking encyclopedia just to post on a forum?
And please, cut out the insults—seriously. I won't report you to the moderator this time, but watch your mouth in the future.
Paul Jones7 said:Do you have any clue how much of his own cash and life he’s poured into his kids? Do you even know anything about the Kostelić family?
What do you think—does every kid have a parent like that? Someone who’d spend half the year living abroad, working seasonal fishing gigs all summer, doing whatever it takes just to spend six months a year freezing their tails off under tents on some glacier with their children?
Would you actually do that for your own kids, or would you be in those kids' shoes right now? Would you walk away from a steady job to work dawn till dusk, being separated from your wife for six months out of the year? Do you honestly believe everyone should go through that?
But hey, talking trash from the comfort of your couch is easy—you’re clearly a pro at that.
When it comes to talking trash from a couch, I’m a total amateur compared to you.
As for the rest of your questions....
...what on earth are you even talking about?
...and what does any of that have to do with anything, let alone with Fak?
I can't get behind that move, and honestly, I could probably drop some pretty heavy words about people who act like this...
...But there’s something else here that really bugs me. See, the president of the Canadian Olympic Committee was out yesterday saying they don't approve of what the Canadian Biathlon Federation is doing. Let me break this down for you. Fak is training up in Aspen—their ultra-modern biathlon hub. You've got Austrians and Italians training there too. And they actually pay their bills... just like our national soccer team would if they were playing in a small town somewhere. So, here’s the kicker: the Canadian Biathlon Federation decided Fak is their "big prospect" for the future, and now they're claiming he CANNOT train in Aspen—regardless of how much Americans pay for his lodging or his coach's fees to use that famous center—unless he takes on Canadian citizenship. That is absolutely unacceptable, and it flies right in the face of everything the IOC stands for. Honestly, this whole stunt should be reported to the IOC as being extremely unsportsmanlike. I really want to know if the Canadians would ever say to the Austrians or the Italians... "Hey, give us one of your biathletes to join our national team, or you aren't allowed to train in Aspen anymore," no matter how much money they put up. NOPE. NOT IN A MILLION YEARS. It wouldn't even cross their minds because they know exactly what a move like that implies. But when it comes to Fak, it seems like this kind of pressure is finding very fertile ground. It says a lot about the people running the Canadian Biathlon Federation... but unfortunately, it also says something about Fak himself. Man, like someone else mentioned here... people like this clearly exist, and Fak is just one of them. For those of you trying to justify this as "normal," just ask yourselves: would the Kostelić family have switched over to Canada 12 or 13 years ago—even though the offer was there—if the Canadians had somehow offered them millions like a Qatari sheikh? THEY WOULDN'T. THEY DIDN'T. But hey... I guess we're not all cut from the same cloth.
Elizabeth Hughes said:And that pretty much sums up the whole Alonso, Schumacher, and Ferrari dynamic. Schumacher lived and breathed Ferrari, working seven days a week, twenty-four hours a day. Then this arrogant little brat shows up and suddenly thinks he's "the king of the world". Yeah, right... 🙄
Yeah, that hits the nail right on the head... it’s 90% grind and 10% talent. The issue with Schumacher is that you can't replicate that today since testing is banned—the guy literally built his entire existence around being in that cockpit. Look, I'm not against team orders, but there's a massive difference between what happened then and what we saw back in the Austrian GP 2002. Back then, it wasn't forbidden, and I'm pretty sure Ferrari got hit with a million-dollar penalty... so who knows what's coming next. I highly doubt they'll just stop at $100,000. Honestly, don't hold your breath for anything other than an even steeper fine in US dollars. It feels to me like the penalties handed to Ferrari over the last two races were way too harsh due to circumstances, so now they're probably going to try some "compensation" move.
Btw.... when Massa was at the press conference and asked "what happened?", he really should have just said: "Well, you all saw it... Alonso was simply too fast for me... he's one of the fastest drivers to ever live, if not *the* fastest... I just didn't stand a chance against that kind of pace" Of course, he’d have to pull that dead-serious face while saying it (you know, the Pervan style). That would be a massive blow to Alonso's ego... and honestly, he wouldn't even be lying; he'd just be telling him and everyone else the truth.
I honestly don't get it—how can these drivers, who are getting paid absolute mountains of cash, turn around and start trashing their own teams and teammates just because one single thing didn't go their way... ...I mean, who's actually footing the bill here? And I’m not even just talking about this whole messy situation between Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber right now. Look, I can wrap my head around the legends—the guys with untouchable resumes who can say whatever they want (like how Fernando Alonso used to roll)—but I just can't wrap my mind around the rest of them. I always think back to Rubens Barrichello after that infamous race in Austria when he was told—just once!—that he had to let Michael Schumacher past. And what does Barrichello do? He waits until the last fifty meters and then starts throwing a massive tantrum against his own team, acting all shocked, like... who does he think he is? He knows damn well he's the number two driver and that he’s pocketing 7 million bucks for it—he wouldn't see half that kind of money anywhere else. For that kind of paycheck, he should probably be asking, "Hey, do you want me to do anything else, too?" Man, looking at all this... Flavio Briatore is the man! With him, you know exactly who's in charge. Even if it means driving straight into a wall. At the end of the day, you just do what the boss tells you to do. Long live Flavio!
...yeah, they should’ve just come out and said it from the jump—that Vettel (or even Webber, if you want to be technical about it) was the clear No.1 driver... but they didn't. And honestly, why would they? You need a damn genius—a real tactical mastermind—to pull off something like that. Neither Webber nor Vettel (not yet, anyway) has that kind of edge. Nobody ever calls their shots like that unless you're talking about Ferrari or Flavio. So what now? Are they the bad guys? In this mess, there isn't a clean way out for any of the drivers. All I'm saying is, given how things have played out, nobody can untangle this disaster anymore.
I’m just gonna weigh in on the whole mess over at Red Bull. Look, I don't think the team or Christian Horner are actually to blame for the friction between their drivers. Sure, maybe Horner isn't exactly the "top-tier" type of guy you'd want running a massive operation long-term, but let’s be real—this kind of drama happens in Formula 1 all the time and there's nothing you can do about it. Even the heavy hitters—think McLaren or Williams—have dealt with this exact same headache, so why would Red Bull be any different? If you ask me, it’s pretty simple: you end up with two drivers who are basically neck-and-neck in terms of talent right now, and suddenly everything goes to hell. I’ve always been a fan of how Ferrari handles things—you know, having a clear number one and number two driver. It’s honestly what’s best for the team. You get these certain moralists popping up every time a team order is called during a race, whining that it’s "not in the spirit of the sport" or lacks "fair play," but they’re forgetting one glaringly obvious fact: Formula 1 isn't some charity competition based on fair play. Even Flavio used to run things that way. As far as I'm concerned, it's the smartest way to handle business in F1. On another note, props to Mark Webber—he sees an opening and he’s trying to grab it while he can. He clearly knows he won't be getting a second shot at this... which is why I don't quite buy his whining about not signing a contract extension because he "didn't know what was coming." I mean, where else is he going to go? Who is even fighting for his services? Maybe Lotus or HRT?
Oh, and by the way, the penalty for Alonso is totally justified... that kind of driving is unacceptable, period. But—and I said this after the last race too—the penalty itself is overkill. It's way too harsh. I'll say it again: a penalty should fit the crime. For what he did, a 5 to 10-second penalty (depending on where Robert Kubica ended up) would have been plenty, since Alonso only took out Kubica... and honestly, they should have handed that out after the race was over.
stormybadger8 said:Amanda Kelly can say whatever she wants about Alonso, but he’s the one who screwed himself here.😉 What stopped him from just staying with Hamilton and overtaking the Stake F1 Team? Just watch the replay. He almost got rear-ended by Felipe Massa. He braked because he was probably thinking, "I'll just complain now, Hamilton will take the hit, I'm in a Ferrari, and Ferrari pulls the strings." Well, it didn't work. Can't blame anyone but him.☕
It's not like this hasn't happened before; Hamilton isn't the first or the last guy to pull something like this. But the thing is, Alonso and Massa were right there—literally three meters away—and it's a massive waste that they didn't capitalize. It was the perfect Ferrari strategy: Alonso overtakes the Stake F1 Team and stays out until the very end of the race. Massa stays behind the Stake F1 Team and pits.
They could have both won, or at least one of them. Instead, they both walked away empty-handed.
I agree, Hamilton is a complete jerk. Between blaming Sebastian Vettel and whining about how "Vettel hit me,"🙂"🙄", it's exhausting. But the whole situation with the Stake F1 Team is just basic situational awareness. It's not like we're waiting for the FIA's decision; these calls happen all the time even after the race (just look at the rest of the teams). His move actually makes sense, plus he has a decent excuse since Vettel was ahead of the Stake F1 Team.
If Alonso hadn't messed up, Hamilton would have been properly screwed.😉 Hamilton honestly owes him a thank-you note for being such a coward. If Alonso hadn't flinched, the decision wouldn't have been handed down until after the race.🤣 That penalty would have been 25 seconds. I have no clue where Hamilton would have landed in that chaos, but he definitely wouldn't have been second. At best, maybe fifth or sixth.🤣 Besides, who's to say he wouldn't have collided with Vettel again or ended up crashing out with him? Sometimes keeping your mouth shut is the smarter play.😉
They might have even stripped him of his win after the race; God knows what kind of penalty he would've faced, but one thing is certain: he would've gotten punished. It's not even impossible that he would've finished behind Alonso with zero points if Alonso had just stayed quiet.🤣
Sure, what happened at the end wasn't fair or honest. But then again, it wasn't "fair" when Alonso was at Ferrari while Kimi wasn't even in Formula 1. It wasn't "fair" when Jenson Button won the title with that semi-legal Brawn GP outfit. It wasn't "fair" when Michael Schumacher snatched several titles in a massively privileged Ferrari. It wasn't "fair" that Alonso even got back into Formula 1 after that mess at McLaren and the Nelson Piquet wall incident. Nothing is ever truly fair. That's just life. You can't expect everyone to follow the rules and play nice while others get away with being total bastards.
Give me a break! What are you doing awake this early in the morning? Are you hanging out at the beach or something? If I have to, I'll grab a crate of Heineken and a few pounds of meat for the grill and head over there just to shut you up! 👍
P.S. Sadly, I won't be heading out to Philip Jacob for another two weeks...
I just want to remind everyone what the word PENALTY actually means. Basically, put simply, a penalty is supposed to sanction an infraction by stripping away whatever benefit or advantage was gained from breaking the rules in the first place. That’s clearly not what happened in this race... not with Lewis Hamilton (especially him) and certainly not with those other 5-second penalties. So, what is even the point of these "penalties" according to Charlie (as Alonso affectionately calls him)?
As for the race itself, Sebastian Vettel finally drove a dominant race—exactly how he ought to be doing it more often. Mercedes... they’re continuing Brown's tactical "black out"... I don't think the red light stewards ruined the race for them, because honestly, the decision to switch to soft tires and try to milk them for 50 laps was already a massive blunder. Either way, it was a worse call than if Schumi had just stayed on hard tires (in third) and nursed them nearly to the end like Kobayashi did... you can safely assume Schumi would have handled it a bit better than him (though Kobayashi was great). Anyway, because of these "weird" decisions regarding these "penalties," we're going to have a seriously "electrified" atmosphere at the Silverstone race... at least when it comes to Alonso and Ferrari... and I really hope it might shake up the Mercedes-Brown-Schumacher combo just a little bit.
Look, I’m definitely not writing off Red Bull just yet. Sure, McLaren is looking lethal, and yeah, Ferrari has turned things around big time—and let's be real, they'll probably keep improving because, well, it's Ferrari. But this track? It’s one of those rare layouts that just doesn't suit Red Bull—I doubt they're going to do much celebrating at Indianapolis either. I'm just saying, don't count them out; everyone is catching up, but Red Bull is still a force to be reckoned with. To be blunt, my only real disappointment is Mercedes. And it’s not even that they’re the weakest of the bunch I mentioned... honestly, Michael Schumacher didn't disappoint me nearly as much as that catastrophic strategy did—and strategy is exactly where Brawn GP used to be untouchable. I mean, it’s mind-boggling. You have Michael Schumacher starting 13th on HARD tires, carving through the field to hit third place after just a few laps while everyone else is pitting early... and then they pull the exact same move on him! It was obvious those tires could have lasted at least another 10 laps. Then, to top off the whole mess, they hand him the soft compound and make him run half the race on it, so he ends up bleeding positions. It's unbelievable... and from what I saw, Michael Schumacher actually had a shot at a massive result today. It's just so uncharacteristic for Ross Brawn... and it isn't even the first time we've seen this kind of nonsense this season.
...Of course we're talking about Vettel, but when you bring up Hamilton—he’s really the only one I can think of who stepped into a competitive race car right out of the gate, actually made the most of his shot (luckily enough), and climbed all the way to being a Formula 1 champion.
I’m thinking back to last season when Red Bull Racing was absolutely killing it during the second half—though, let's be real, we all know Jenson Button was basically invisible during the first part.
And yeah, I'm looking at this current stretch too—by which I mean the second season. I know the season has barely even kicked off, but that one-second gap Red Bull Racing is carving out in qualifying compared to whoever is in second place? That's massive. It's enough to say that his (Vettel's) race car just doesn't have any real competition.
But hey... like I told you once before, I'm way harder on Vettel than you are.
I gotta throw one more thing into the ring here... Look, Vettel has had the most competitive machine on the grid for two out of his three seasons in Formula 1—and he still does—and honestly, very few rookies ever get handed an opportunity like that on a silver platter.
He absolutely has to capitalize on this year, because if he doesn't, I’m genuinely worried his whole career might just head off in the wrong direction... ...just imagine if Red Bull stops being a powerhouse in the coming years (which, let's be real, is a totally plausible scenario), and those top teams like Ferrari, McLaren, or Mercedes don't bother showing him any interest...
...then what? Where were you, "Master," and what on earth were you doing with your life? - Oh, you know, I was young! Dammit!
Man, I really hope it doesn't come to that... mostly because I won't have anyone left to root for once Schumacher moves on.
Look, I’ve said it before... who’s to say how things would have played out? Why is a collision the only possible outcome we talk about? They could’ve just gone wheel-to-wheel through the next two turns, for instance.
Either way, it would’ve been a hell of a lot more interesting than this whole replay mess (Roger Wright94 put it perfectly)
Even Schumi was in a worse spot than Vettel, in my opinion, yet he still had the guts to go for it. So what now? Is he just an idiot because he could’ve wrecked everything? And then you look at Vettel—he’s the "smart" one because he backed off... and lost his position. But hey, he’s also smart because three or four laps from the end, he’s driving like a maniac without brakes, risking a total exit when there’s absolutely nothing left to gain or lose... since Schumi is already 20 seconds behind him. It’s simple, really—you have to know when to pull the trigger on a risk... otherwise, what’s the point of racing? Just a waste of time.
Michael Lee4 said:So, you're telling me it's better to just wreck the car instead of staying in the race and waiting for a real opening?
Look, that was a massive opportunity—passing it up just to sit around waiting for something better at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is basically like trying to win the Jackpot... I mean, who actually knows what might have happened, right? Maybe not a total crash... but either way, it would’ve been way more interesting... honestly, it probably would've led to that "something special" that's the whole reason we even bother watching F1 in the first place.
silvergull10 said:1. Button absolutely had to stop Schumi from overtaking him—same goes for Vettel. 2. In both pit exit scenarios, whether it's Lewis, Michael, or Fernando in that exact spot, they wouldn't have let anyone pass, even if it meant spinning out. 3. Honestly, it’s doubtful Hamilton could have overtaken Schumi in Button's position either; Michael knows how to defend, and the track layout just doesn't favor it.
Anyway, Vettel had a rough one—he really shouldn't have been trying to hunt down Hamilton like that. And then there was that whole stunt driving without brakes... total idiocy. He got lucky at the end, but he was chasing ghosts when nobody was actually threatening his position. Hamilton was top-tier, just plain unlucky. Alonso didn't really show much, but looking at Massu, you have to give him some credit for holding his own in a car that's currently even weaker than the McLaren. Webber is solid when there isn't a crowd in front of him—the car is definitely closing the gap on the competition.
Yeah, that bolded part is spot on, and honestly, that's my main gripe with Vettel too... he just seems way too "soft" to me. And get this—he’s sitting there with a car that's nearly a full second faster than the next best thing, yet he's still dropping wins. His brakes failed toward the end anyway, and by then he was already sitting in third. It's going to be a massive uphill battle to grab a title with a car that dominant. Because what happens when his car finally levels out with the Ferrari, McLaren, and Mercedes? Hamilton, Alonso, and Schumi are going to eat him alive because they'll be dealing with these kinds of messy situations every single race.