Posts by mellowtiger83

Jason Campbell70 said:This guy clearly doesn't get it.

Alain Prost > Ayrton Senna. Proven once again.

If I've got this right, he used that fast car to set himself up just so Ayrton Senna could dive at him during braking?

Alain Prost <> Ayrton Senna🎉

cosmiccyclist8 said:Everything they said is actually true. Ayrton Senna could steal setups from Alain Prost. See, Senna was a driver who lived for the engine, whereas Alain Prost was all about the chassis. I mean, obviously, Alain Prost couldn't just swipe those Honda units that had "For Senna" written on them, but Ayrton Senna could easily copy an Alain Prost car setup.

It clearly got under Alain Prost's skin so much that at the last minute he’d start tweaking things on the car... sometimes he'd mess it up, and other times he'd hit the nail on the head.

Take that famous Suzuki race in '89—he actually told his technicians to secretly remove his Gurney flap behind Ayrton Senna's back, and it worked perfectly. It made the car faster on the straights, which was vital, since Ayrton Senna couldn't touch him in the corners... honestly, the only thing he couldn't account for was a desperate charge from Ayrton Senna; otherwise, he outsmarted him technically.

Where are you even pulling this nonsense from? Personally, I don't care if it was Alain Prost or Ayrton Senna, but there's no point in lying.

Who was doing setups for Ayrton Senna before? Maybe Elio de Angelis, Naoki Nakajima, Gerhard Berger, or Mika Hakkinen? Who?

So it turns out Honda was making special engines just for Ayrton Senna!

And specifically, which part of the Suzuki race was it when Alain Prost was faster than Ayrton Senna, and what was this "desperate move"?

Jason Campbell70 said:What are you even talking about?

It didn't even involve you. 🙂

I've had some hunches about this for quite a while now.😁

cosmiccyclist8 said:I’ve got a feeling Fio was probably tearing apart the Benetton chassis down to the last bolt—just because they couldn't find some specific parts elsewhere.

They never actually removed a single screw from the Benetton. Nobody at Fio is going to find software by unscrewing hardware.

ruggedhawk20 said:Peter Collins basically handed the championship title over to Juan Manuel Fangio

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...rg-formula-one

Do some homework.
Uneducated idiot.

You and I are done here. Goodbye.

stormybadger8 said:Perhaps if the spirit of Sennin organized the pit stops...

Back in 1990, he still had some physical shape left.😁

stormybadger8 said:Obviously I don't get it... because frankly, I couldn't care less about Jean Balestre, Alain Prost, or Ayrton Senna...
But I really don't grasp your logic—how can someone who adored Alain Prost somehow hate Ayrton Senna? He didn't penalize Ayrton Senna just because he lacked "grounds" for it. 🙂

Look, if he had wanted to hand out a penalty, he would have, and that would be the end of the story. No one could have done anything about it...
What "grounds" for a penalty are we even talking about? Who was he supposed to justify himself to??
To you, to Ayrton Senna, or specifically to whom?

And honestly, it would have been much simpler back then than it is today. Nowadays, the media pressure is massive. You have footage of every single collision or move from a million different angles. You have every possible piece of evidence to prove who is at fault, yet they still manage to penalize a driver who did nothing wrong, or fail to penalize someone when it's obvious from a satellite view that they're guilty...

How could they not have acted back then, when the media and fans barely had access to decent information? It was all just "I think this" or pure speculation...
The official hands down a penalty and that’s that. You can cry about it and complain to the water department all you want, but you're getting the penalty...☕

I'm not entirely convinced anyone would have dared to penalize Ayrton Senna without cause, especially considering his popularity back then. His charisma was twice what Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel have combined.

The whole world would have been up in arms, particularly given everything that had happened in the years leading up to it.

Plus, you've missed the entire point. NASCAR back then wasn't even remotely similar to how things are now, where every little mistake gets a penalty.

I understand what you're trying to say, but you've lost your way in time and space.

You can't just arbitrarily penalize a driver who possessed more charisma than everyone else put together. Things functioned differently then. Ayrton Senna would hold a press conference where everyone listened only to him, and challenging that would have been a direct shot to the heart of the entire leadership.

ruggedhawk20 said:Fine. Whatever. You’re just glorifying a basic kamikaze driver.

Right now, there isn't any evidence he was actually "better" than Alain Prost. Being a legend doesn't make his struggles in the dirt any easier.

That might be true for you, but for someone like me who believes in God, it means something.

He became an inspiration to so many people, and that kind of thing is priceless.

ruggedhawk20 said:Exactly. He had a car capable of second place. He should have accepted it. Instead, he kept tinkering with the setup. Demanding changes to the steering rack and all that. He essentially caused his own accident.

Nelson Piquet, Niki Lauda, Alain Prost, or even Jackie Stewart would have been perfectly content with second place that day.

And that is precisely why they are still alive, while Ayrton Senna is not.

That is the very essence of the magic surrounding Ayrton Senna. He was never satisfied with what he achieved, even when he took first place. He constantly pushed harder than the situation required.

Especially during the era of Alain Prost, whom he seemed determined to humble for reasons known only to himself.

Which is quite peculiar, considering the man's religious leanings.

Dana Perez6 said:That's not how it went down—Ayrton Senna was losing his mind because he saw they moved his pole position to the worse side where there was zero grip. It was all intentional. And what's this nonsense about "painting the track"? You don't "paint" a racetrack. What kind of paint are we even talking about here, and how much "paint" would you supposedly need to use??? The reality is those two French guys teamed up specifically to screw over Ayrton Senna.🤦

Don't try to lecture me. Nobody actually gained any ground during the standing start. That side of the grid has always been the starting point, and pole position at Suzuka was always on the right-hand side from the driver's perspective.

Ayrton Senna requested a change after qualifying, insisting he be moved to the clean left side. He felt that staying on the right would essentially negate any advantage gained from securing pole position.
It’s hardly surprising he was turned down.

No one here was playing games against Ayrton Senna. This individual was simply demanding something that wasn't on the table, and his proposal was rejected.

There is absolutely no conspiracy here. None whatsoever.

Ayrton Senna could have easily opted for the left side of the grid if he had truly wanted to. He could have simply handed the pole position over to Alain Prost by pulling away just a fraction slower during qualifying.

Absolute nonsense.

Don't be such a blatant fanatic.

We might be able to argue for some concessions regarding Alain Prost back in '89, but by 1990, the slate is clean.

There wasn't any real unified French front against Ayrton Senna. Even Balestre was a decent enough guy, at least not during that stretch in 1990.

steelmaker83 said:It’s clear the folks on this forum don't just lack an understanding of basic value parameters, they also can't distinguish between a calculated tactical move off the racing line and simply slamming into an opponent because you couldn't be bothered to hold your own line to avoid a collision. There is a massive difference.

Right. As if any driver in history would ever concede a championship fight when there's nothing to lose. Not Lewis Hamilton, not Sebastian Vettel, not Fernando Alonso... honestly, not even Alain Prost himself if he had been in Ayrton Senna's shoes.

Besides, that isn't the point. The point is that Ayrton Senna didn't force Alain Prost off the track, and he wasn't penalized because there was no basis for a penalty.

And I highly doubt he wouldn't have been penalized if there had been even a hint of grounds for one.

It’s absurd, really, how this has been dragged out to the point where someone would mention the Brazilian in the context of attempted murder, based solely on a statement he made that the media—as per usual—decided to blow completely out of proportion.

stormybadger8 said:You’re living in a total fantasy land.🤣
Even today, a referee could hand out a penalty for absolutely no reason at all, let alone when things get complicated...

Honestly, I couldn't care less about these endless debates over Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost. I don't give a damn who was actually at fault or who wasn't...

But this idea that you need some sort of concrete justification to slap someone with a penalty? That's just laughable. 🙏🤣
Take Pokte, for instance. Sergio Pérez recently got penalized simply because two Ferraris sandwiched him—literally caught in the middle through no fault of his own.
The only thing Sergio Pérez is guilty of in that situation is having a bad reputation, and nothing else...

I don't think it's worth bringing up Jean-Marie Balestre and all that old drama; there isn't much of a connection to what's happening today.

And here is what Ayrton Senna had to say regarding that opening lap. I just watched this clip for the very first time, and it aligns perfectly with my own observations. He had absolutely no intention of making contact.

God, I really am gifted.



It isn't just his word, either—look at how he explains that avoiding the collision was physically impossible.

Still, Jean-Marie Balestre did a fine job by deciding to penalize an innocent man based solely on media statements.

Stop painting Balestre as some kind of villain. He was actually a quite likable individual, and the drivers held him in high regard—even Ayrton Senna himself!

It is true he was close friends with Lewis Hamilton, but that doesn't change the fact that his leadership was perfectly fine.

And let’s not go rewriting history here. In '89, Senna shouldn't have been pushed by the officials, so stripping him of the win was technically legitimate. However, one has to wonder why they didn't just pull the black flag right then and there on the track. Why wait until after the race? It also raises the question of why nobody else was penalized for similar moves in the past when it certainly happened before.

Jason Campbell70 said:Whoever was meant to win it, wins it.

Cheers, man!

So, then we're looking for the torso of the squid. I happen to have some intel suggesting that you and ruggedhawk20 managed to get your hands on it.

cosmiccyclist8 said:that famous bit about Senna hunting for a gap is just a joke and nothing more😁 😁

mellowtiger83, you know perfectly well that Senna’s whole strategy was forcing his rivals into a corner where they had to choose between a collision or backing off. Schumacher dealt with those kinds of maneuvers constantly, and you know just as well how many collisions he had with other drivers👍 but thinking he would pull that at 155 miles/h... even Schumacher, who has seen everything the man has done, wouldn't have dreamed of it.

I’ll even find that video of Schumacher on YouTube where he says he was simply in shock and disbelief that someone could value a championship title more than their own life.

That’s what you think. That’s why Schumacher decided to throw away the title back in '90, right? Exactly.

I’m telling you, Schumacher probably wasn't even aware of where the McLaren was on the track. Or did you expect Senna, in the final race deciding the championship, to just floor it and deviate from his line to let Schumacher pass since he couldn't see him?

Good grief, Senna nearly went off into the grass and ended up riding a lawnmower; and people like you claim he intentionally slammed into Schumacher.

There is a difference between what Senna said he would do and what actually happened. To this day, I don't understand how Schumacher could be so foolish as to attempt a pass on Senna like that, knowing their entire history.

Schumacher rambled about something after the race, only to state a few hours later that there was no intention behind it. It's a shame I can't find that specific article.

It was a pure racing incident and nothing else. Primarily, it was a miscalculation by Schumacher, because Senna couldn't have cared less whether he got hit or not.

But you can't ignore the fact that Senna stayed on his line, hugging the edge of the track without lifting off the throttle at the moment of impact. There was no intentional swerving into Schumacher; it was likely just stubbornness and a refusal to yield, which is understandable given the stakes.

Schumacher had the entire race to pass Senna, but instead, he chose the absolute stupidest way to dive right into Senna's path.

And then you wonder why there was no penalty. What penalty? For what specifically?
Do you honestly think Balestre wouldn't have handed out a penalty if he could have? He didn't have a single leg to stand on.

Something just occurred to me.

Back in '90, Ayrton Senna stated he’d deliberately force Alain Prost out of the race. Then you have Prost, who performed so poorly in his Suzuki that it almost feels as though he was intentionally trying to fulfill Senna's intent.🙂

I find myself watching that start over and over again. I simply cannot wrap my head around it.

cosmiccyclist8 said:When he glanced in that mirror while hitting the chicane, Ayrton Senna was still at least 50 meters behind him...

Really, 🎉are you suggesting there's some fake footage circulating online?

He happened to be attempting to turn into the corner before the actual turn. 🙂

cosmiccyclist8 said:There was no moving it. The starting position was already on that damn dirty right side. All they did was repaint the track overnight at Senna's request—honestly, why are you being so dense? Whoever took pole would have been stuck on that right side anyway... though, I guess after qualifying, Senna finally realized what happened. But those are two completely different things, and you're seriously conflating them????

Ayrton Senna acted foolishly. Quite simply, he shouldn't have qualified for pole. He had failed on that side of the track repeatedly over the years, and it wasn't just him—most drivers struggled there too.

Jason Campbell70 said:Pathological lying is a serious affliction.

I simply call it a lack of constructive input. It is much easier to just label someone a mythomaniac.