So, is our Church no longer aligned with the Republican Party? 🤣
Skoro certainly felt the weight of that shift during this election cycle. Honestly, he probably would have even made it into the runoff if it weren't for some divine intervention.
For thirty years, they've been protecting a pack of thieves masquerading as an organization. For me, that's where I draw the line. What’s worse is that their most vocal supporters are often the very people filling heads with nationalist nonsense and intolerance toward anyone perceived as different. They are always standing by when it's time to sharpen the rhetoric or direct that specific segment of voters who view the New Testament as a political guidebook from the pulpit.
That petty, short-sighted, self-serving brand of politics is personally the biggest reason I’ve distanced myself from all of it. If I were to ignore the illogicalities and the atavisms—which aren't exactly rare in ancient traditions—one could certainly extract a beautiful life ethic from the New Testament even in modern times; but quite simply, everything associated with them just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's much the same as their secular counterparts in the Republican Party, with all those superficial displays of "patriotism."
loneseal said:The whole issue with the atheist crowd is their mindset—they act like nobody should believe in anything at all.
ZZ, do you seriously feel the need to go around pestering people about why they shouldn't believe during Christmas too?
It was already answered for you quite explicitly and clearly before, but you don't seem to care; you just keep nibbling away at the edges like a little mouse.
I think you might have mixed up your arguments here. It would certainly be hypocritical if someone were to rail against secular planning for Christmas while simultaneously organizing it themselves, or if they criticized attending Midnight Mass while showing up to attend it personally. If you can find an example like that, then we’re talking about true hypocrisy.
Everything else is a completely different matter. When people criticize the Church or Catholic activists here in the States, they aren't usually targeting the observance of religious holidays; rather, they tend to take issue with them meddling in spheres where they simply don't belong—things like interfering in private lives or attempting to influence political institutions.
So, the premise that there is a widespread opposition to every single religious element is fundamentally flawed from the get-go.
Ultimately, you seem to be viewing this through too much of a black-and-white lens. There really aren't many people in America who would want to root out every single thing connected to the Church or to faith. (And yes, if such a person were to celebrate Christmas, wouldn't that be hypocritical?)
I am not going around telling anyone they aren't allowed to believe something, nor am I demanding they adopt my own convictions. My only contention is that they shouldn't burden me with rules derived from their belief in the supernatural. The distinction is more than clear, isn't it? 🤷
As far as I'm concerned, you can worship at the altar of Christmas or believe in flying spaghetti monsters for all I care, just don't try to stop me from eating a steak simply because you’ve been told it's a sacred animal.
Then again, so many Christian customs have drifted into being just part of ordinary, secular life that they barely hold any primary connection to faith anymore. You see Muslims living in cities like New York decorating with fir trees, much like how even old-school communists embraced Santa Claus as a convenient substitute for the traditional December gift-giving season.
To claim otherwise—to insist these are strictly religious elements—is to suggest we've lost our grip on reality. Don't you think?
But then again, I fail to see how that could be considered hypocritical. True hypocrisy lies with those believers who feel compelled to impose their religious lifestyle on everyone else while failing to live up to those very standards themselves. Why should an atheist be labeled a hypocrite simply for participating in traditions tied to faith, provided they aren't forcing their own way of life onto others?
A huge portion of Christian traditions has simply bled into folk customs over the centuries. It works both ways, really; just as certain "pagan" rituals were absorbed into Christianity. I haven't noticed anyone calling out Christians for hypocrisy regarding these, shall we say, peculiar customs.
All this modern revelry and the frantic scrambling around Christmas has very little to do with actual faith. Instead, it’s mostly driven by mass laziness and scheduled time off—especially given the rush in the corporate world and the kids being out of school. People stay home, they have free time, they socialize, they eat, and they drink. I don't see much of a basis here for claiming this is uniquely Christian behavior.
Easter is a far more significant Christian holiday, yet it doesn't possess even a fraction of this specific secular aura.
I have to admit, I’m struggling to grasp the specific point that Charles Roberts33 and Paul Martinez73 are attempting to drive home in this discussion. Are they suggesting that anyone who participates in rituals tied to Christianity out of sheer force of tradition—despite not actually believing in all the religious mumbo-jumbo required of a Catholic—is somehow a hypocrite? If that is the case, what exactly is the logic behind why such a person shouldn't participate? Or am I missing something else entirely?
And if the answer is yes, does the same logic apply to believers: would it be considered hypocritical for them to utilize or engage with institutions whose very essence stands in direct opposition to church doctrine?
I honestly can't wrap my head around how 90% of those who claim to "believe" actually have a clue what they're supposed to be following as Catholics. It’s as if they couldn't care less about the substance of it all.
By the way, happy St. Matthew's Day to Paul Martinez73 and the rest of those "Catholics" who work so diligently to maintain the spiritual purity of the American people.
To everyone else, I wish you a happy and peaceful Christmas; stay close to your loved ones and try to be grateful for what you have, if only for a brief moment. There will always be plenty of time for complaining later on.
Paul Martinez73 said:Matthew Young35, do you celebrate Christmas? Got a nice Christmas tree at home? A nativity scene? Heading out for Advent? It’s actually fascinating how many "Atheists" and "I'm not Catholic" types still celebrate Christmas. So, I have to wonder... are you and Zinedine Zidane part of that little club?
It seems Zinedine Zidane is constantly on your mind; I certainly hope you have some soft tissues handy for your eyes when you start tearing up over him. ☕
By the way, why do you capitalize the word "Atheist" and wrap it in quotation marks in this specific context? I am genuinely curious if there is any actual intellectual reasoning behind such an endeavor.
They didn't exactly "conquer" me in that debate, nor do I view the Social Democratic Party as anything resembling a coherent modern leftist movement. That is precisely why I used the word "attempt." It will likely take another three or five iterations before we see a legitimate leftist platform actually take shape.
There is really no need to foam at the mouth or go after straw men ☕
What’s the actual issue here—is it the ideas themselves, or just the way they manifest?
I honestly welcome any attempt to build a coherent economic left wing—not because I expect anyone to actually win an election, since that isn't happening (nor should it), but simply so these perspectives can exist in the public square. We need a counterweight to the hyper-right-wing economic theories that are currently trendy and sound so appealing, especially to younger generations who feel like social solidarity is nothing more than a drain on their wallets (particularly given the disastrous state of our country lately).
Of course, I am talking about a left wing that is actually adapted to today's reality, rather than one stuck in the 19th or 20th centuries. We need advocacy for genuine equal opportunity (rather than equal outcomes), limits on corporatocracy, environmental protection, and a critique of the losers created by globalization. Someone needs to keep in mind the people who won't have advanced degrees, those who won't be able to swap employers like socks through freelance gigs, those unable to work for some firm in Hong Kong from the comfort of their living rooms, and those who lack either the skill or the drive to run their own businesses. These people are the backbone of society, and their future looks incredibly bleak in this unstable world we are heading toward.