Melbourne Grand Prix - March 17, 2019

stormybadger8 said:takes a totally unnatural line through the corner

and I'm pretty sure Kimi would be just as good—or maybe even worse—under those exact same conditions...

Nothing beats those "expert" breakdowns from the self-proclaimed prophets living in their parents' basements🤣🤣🤣

Look, everyone knows I’m not exactly Sebastian Vettel’s biggest fan, but honestly, there’s not much to even debate regarding that first corner. He wasn't going to lose it; he was just out there making sure everyone knew exactly who was running the show. If they had actually collided, people would have straight-up blamed Charles Leclerc, but let's be real—Charles was clearly just trying to give Sebastian plenty of space so he didn't screw up the entire opening race.

Richard Walker38 said:They're just great...

Go troll someone else. 🙂
Maybe come back when you actually learn how to troll properly...

See, this is exactly what happens when you get confronted with actual facts. I’m literally dropping screenshots right in your face showing the exact moment you were out here defending Sebastian Vettel, claiming he had nowhere to turn to avoid hitting Max Verstappen, even though there wasn't a single inch of space available next to him.

Come on, Tibi, people want some answers here! 🍿

Richard Walker38 said:Those photos of yours look great because they capture the cars while they're still heading toward the turn, so they don't really reflect what happened later. You're trying to defend Sebastian Vettel by claiming he had no choice, saying Max Verstappen was right there next to him and all that, but the track space next to Vettel was wide open. All he did was squeeze his teammate and force him off the track. Max was a full car length behind Vettel, and there was nothing but empty track beside him.

Kazes, so you're saying he should have just steered right into Max? Where exactly was Max at the moment Vettel cuts off his teammate and pushes him off? I'd love for you to walk me through that logic.



As they enter the corner, that Max he supposedly should have turned into is actually behind him. 🤷

The screenshot you posted shows them side-by-side.
Watch the actual video; it gives a much clearer picture.
If we rely solely on screenshots, it'll end up looking like the drivers defending themselves are wrong in 98% of situations.

swifttiger75 said:Come on, Tibi, people actually want answers here! 🍿

Go ask darkmarlin16 in the moderator section if you're that desperate for answers. I know you can get through to them. 😛

If you aren't high or tripping, maybe try asking them—one of them might actually know something. 🤷
I don't have the authority to answer in those specific "official" threads. 😁

Nicholas Newman2 said:On another note, I've been thinking about this for a while now.
Sebastian Vettel often made mistakes in situations like this back when he was racing alongside Rajko, and it looks like he’ll be overdoing it again with Charles Leclerc. He pushes his defense so hard that he ends up screwing over the team and losing more positions, instead of just letting his teammate hold the line—like protecting him from Max Verstappen in this instance.

You can post screenshots all you want, but you aren't going to hide what was said above.

What does it matter if you think you're proving a point? Sebastian Vettel is bound to make that same mistake soon, and let's not forget that not everyone is as chill as Rajko.
I honestly think Max Verstappen's blunder in Belgium only went unpunished because it involved Kimi Räikkönen.

So, when exactly will Charles Leclerc feel settled enough at Ferrari to say "no pasaran" to those kinds of moves from Sebastian Vettel?

Right at the start, Sebastian Vettel veered all the way to the right just to squeeze Max Verstappen. Max had to back off to get behind him, and then, as they hit the corner, Vettel lunged left to cut off Charles Leclerc, forcing him completely out of the race. It’s classic Vettel: he crowds the other driver and basically gives them two choices—either back down or wreck both of you. It’s that old-school Ayrton Senna move where he leaves it up to you whether you want to crash into him or just give up and try to recover a few spots later.

He was diving in like a maniac on people all last season. Just think back to how he absolutely screwed himself when he lunged at Lewis Hamilton and ended up spinning out after the contact. And honestly, that situation with Max Verstappen was pretty much the same thing, except this time, Max didn't back down...

Is Mattia Binotto lying to himself, the team, us, or just everyone involved:

Binotto — Here’s the explanation Team Principal Mattia Binotto is giving regarding the way they covered the guy from Monaco: "As a team, we made the call to bring home the points. Charles Leclerc performed great both as a driver and as a team player," says Binotto. "Regarding the race itself, obviously we weren't expecting a result like this; it’s too early to draw any final conclusions, but it was a useful lesson for the future. We’re going to dive deep into the data so we can make adjustments in time for the next GP, which will be on a completely different kind of track. What we saw out there was that we struggled with setup and tire management, but we know the car's actual potential is way higher than what we showed back in Australia".

?????????????????????

Richard Walker38 said:then Vettel cuts to the left while entering the corner, squeezing Charles Leclerc out. It’s just classic Vettel,

That was his big mistake right there. Instead of letting Charles deal with Max while he built up a gap and managed his tire temps, he messed it up.
There's no point in arguing about it; Vettel is going to pull this move again, and the comments on the forums will be exactly the same.

Timothy Castillo6 said:Is Mattia lying to himself, the team, us, or everyone at once?

Binotto — Here is the explanation Team Principal Mattia Binotto gave regarding how they covered for the Monegasque driver: "As a team, we made the decision to secure those points. Leclerc performed well both as a driver and as a team player," says Binotto. "Regarding the race itself, we obviously didn't expect a result like this. It’s too early to draw any final conclusions, but it was a valuable lesson for the future. We’re going to dive deep into the data so we can make adjustments starting with the next GP, which will be on a very different type of track. What we saw today was that we struggled with setup and tire management, but we know the car's actual potential is much higher than what we showed in the USA".

?????????????????????

In my opinion, Binotto isn't lying to anyone. It’s just that the die-hard fans are getting restless—like a bride before her wedding—and combined with chronic exhaustion, it's leading to massive apathy.🤷

Raymond Anderson4 said:You picked a screenshot from the exact moment they were side-by-side.
Watch the video instead; it gives a much clearer picture.
If we just rely on screenshots, it’ll look like the people defending themselves are in the wrong 98% of the time.

It’s not even about the defense...

The thing is, Leclerc's entry into that corner was almost as natural as Ricci's...😁
Honestly, I have no clue what he was thinking or what kind of wildly optimistic logic led him to believe he could dive through that corner, let alone pull off an overtake.

Technically, he did fine because he didn't lose anything, but he could've easily been wrecked. He could've been easily shoved sideways or hit from behind after a move like that—not just by Vettel or Max, but potentially by his own teammate coming back onto the track, or even that Haas behind Max, and that would be it...

Expecting someone to brake or move off the racing line during a race start is pretty delusional and naive, even if it is a teammate...
And Leclerc could have taken that corner normally if Vettel and Max had simply decided to brake, swerved off the racing line, or just vanished into thin air...

Richard Walker38 said:That's how he used to charge in like a maniac against others last season. We'll just remember how he screwed himself up diving at Hamilton and spinning out after contact, and we'll also remember the situation with Max, which is pretty similar to this one—except Max didn't back down then...

Except there's one tiny difference: this time it's Leclerc charging in like a maniac where there's zero space, not Vettel...

The situation with Max is the polar opposite of this...
Meaning, Leclerc is in Vettel's shoes here, and Vettel is in Max's...
Because as far as I recall, Vettel also forced his way inside Max mid-corner, right into his racing line...

Both were over-optimistic attempts to pass.
Only difference is that the Vettel vs Max duel was a direct fight without anyone else around, so Max knew exactly what Vettel was doing and didn't need to worry about anything else...

On the other hand, this is a race start where there's total chaos everywhere, so it's not exactly brilliant to force it like Leclerc did to Vettel...

What Leclerc did was classic: you can't win a race in the first few hundred meters, but you can certainly lose it...

Nicholas Newman2 said:That’s exactly where he screwed up. Instead of letting Leclerc battle Max, he just focused on building a gap and burning through those hard tires.

It’s easy to play general after the race is over...
And yeah, I totally agree that it would have been the smart move for Vettel, but who knows how much Vettel actually expected Leclerc to be breathing down his neck right there...
In my opinion, he was way too preoccupied with what Max was doing to even realize Leclerc was trying to muscle him out on the outside...

stormybadger8 said:It isn’t even about making excuses...

The reality is that Leclerc's entry into that corner was almost as fluid as Ricci's...😁
To be perfectly honest, I have no idea what he was thinking or what kind of wildly optimistic logic led him to believe he could take that corner, let alone attempt an overtake...

Technically, he came out fine since he didn't lose ground, but he could have easily been wrecked. He could have been absolutely hammered from the side or from behind after a move like that—not just by Vettel or Max, but potentially by his own teammate during the recovery, or even that Haas trailing Max, and so on...

Expecting someone to brake or move off the racing line at the start of a race is quite foolish and naive, even if it is a teammate...
And Leclerc could have simply taken the corner normally, provided that Vettel and Max chose to brake, swerve off-track, or just vanish from the area entirely...

The only slight difference is that this time it was Leclerc forcing his way into a gap where none existed, rather than Vettel...

The situation with Max is diametrically opposed to this one...
That is to say, Leclerc was in Vettel's position, and Vettel was in Max's position...
Because as far as I recall, Vettel also forced his way inside Max mid-corner...

Both were overly optimistic attempts to pass.
However, the Vettel vs. Max duel was a direct confrontation without anyone else involved, so Max knew exactly what Vettel was doing and didn't have to worry about much else besides Vettel...

On the other hand, this was the start of the race when there is total chaos everywhere, so it isn't particularly wise to force a move on someone like Leclerc against Vettel...

What Leclerc did was a classic case of realizing you can't win a race in the first few hundred meters, but you can certainly lose it...

It is easy to be a general after the battle is over...
And even if I would absolutely agree that the outcome would have been ideal for Vettel, it is questionable how much Vettel even expected Leclerc to be right there next to him...
I suspect he was far more focused on Max and his movements than he was on expecting Leclerc to try and squeeze him from the outside...

Vettel had already cleared Max and ended up going unnecessarily wide to the left because of Leclerc; consequently, Leclerc lost ground to Max. Had he not been forced to slow down at the curbs, he likely would have emerged ahead of Max and perhaps even secured a podium, as Max would have then been busy fighting Leclerc instead.

Nicholas Newman2 said:I don't think Binotto is lying to anyone. It’s just that Ferrari fans are being as high-strung as a bride on her wedding day. Combine that with chronic laziness, and you end up with mass apathy.🤷

I mean, I don't really see any reason to be overly optimistic here...
Honestly, I fully expected him to choke during qualifying in Austin, and even if he had, I wouldn't have blinked. It wouldn't have been a shock, and I definitely wouldn't have written off his entire season because of it.
I'm still lagging by about 0.3 to 0.5 seconds. Honestly, if I could bridge that gap, it would be massive progress compared to last year. I'm just holding onto the hope that the rest of the season stays mostly mid-pack, maybe even throwing in a few better results every now and then.

Honestly, they got absolutely slapped out there. Even Bottas and Hamilton didn't manage to pull off a perfect lap—if you combined their best sectors, they would've been about 0.100 faster.

They basically got slapped in this race. They’re trailing by a massive margin, so the guys at Mercedes were just casually playing cat and mouse out there. No attempt to catch up, no nothing. Just chilling.
And honestly, I don't recall them being this far behind Mercedes at any single race last year. This gap isn't even close to what we saw before. 🤔

That red line shows exactly how Vettel moved to completely shut his teammate out. Honestly, the line on the right would have been the much smarter play. If Leclerc had just taken that line, he could've finished right behind his own teammate and left Max struggling for scraps 🤷. Seriously, that entire right side was wide open because Max was trailing behind him. There was absolutely no reason to pull any defensive maneuvers, but instead, he went straight for blocking his teammate and ended up cutting him off.

mellowtiger83 said:Vettel already cleared Max, but he went unnecessarily wide to the left to cover Leclerc. Because of that, Leclerc lost ground to Max. If he hadn't been forced to slow down on the curbs, he would've stayed ahead of Max and probably secured the podium since Max would've had to fight Leclerc instead.

Where exactly was Vettel going wider than everyone else?
And seriously, where did you get the idea that you can just change a car's trajectory by clicking a mouse on a screen...🙂

Richard Walker38 said:

The red line shows Vettel's movement totally cutting off his teammate. That right line could have been a smarter move where Leclerc ends up right behind him, giving Max some work to do.🤷, I’m telling you, that whole right side was wide open because Max was trailing him. He didn't need to defend at all, but he went straight for blocking his own teammate and cut him off.

Just watch the replay...
At the end of the day, look at your own footage.🤦
Is Vettel following the exact same line as Hamilton, Bottas, or Max?

Vettel was even blocking wheels before this, diving in front of Max at the last second and barely managing to keep the car under control through the turn...
There is no way he suddenly decided to snap his direction inward like that, and there's no way Leclerc was even thinking about it...
If anything, Max was definitely the one on his mind. If he was trying to block anyone and kill their chances, it was Max's, not Leclerc's...

Peter Carter6 said:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWXy...nonsense phrase

I actually found myself laughing out loud. Which is unfortunate, really, because the whole thing is actually true.

Richard Walker38 said:

That red line shows Vettel moving just to block his own teammate. The right side was clearly the smarter play—if Leclerc had just taken that line, he would have ended up right behind his teammate's rear tires and left Max 🤷. Seriously, that entire right side was wide open since Max was trailing him. There was zero need for defensive driving, but he went straight for the move to shut out his teammate and basically cut him off.

Not true. Look at where Hamilton and Bottas are; that’s how you actually take a corner. The path you're drawing would require either some kind of anti-gravity device or a complete 180-degree U-turn.

Oh, come on, just look at this clip. If you freeze the frame right here, it’s obvious. Vettel is clearly trying to cut off his own teammate. There was absolutely no wheel locking and zero late braking going on, lol. At this exact moment, he’s driving straight toward the left side just to dive right into Leclerc's line.