unknown

According to the moderator Sarah Doyle54, using slurs is fine as long as you aren't targeting a specific user directly. You can see this play out in today's thread on "appeals of a red card," though her own moderation history makes it even more obvious. Honestly, she applies this rule in a very personal way 🤣—she’s incredibly lenient when it comes to insulting Catholics, yet she's lightning-fast to hand out bans if anyone uses derogatory terms for other groups (I guess that's just "moderator discretion" at work).

I’m calling on the supermoderators here. Dorian.Gray, two years ago you were telling me to my face that the term "unknown" was unacceptable and that twisting names like that was offensive. What changed? The rules? The way mods operate? Or did you just lose control over them?

If insulting Catholics is officially okay now, just say so. If it isn't, then start handing out red cards for terms like "unknown," calling Catholic organizations "clerical fascists," or using insults like "nedrk" for unknown.

On the other hand, if you've decided that generalized insults are perfectly legal, please make that clear too. The English language is plenty expressive enough to make these posts much more interesting.

John Perez85 said:According to the moderator Sarah Doyle54, using derogatory terms is fine as long as you aren't aiming them directly at another user.

You're twisting my words. I actually said the opposite—it’s the direct attacks on other users that get you a red card. We always penalize direct insults and labels, but offensive generalizations depend on the context. Before you try to split hairs over this, just remember that context is the foundation of moderation here, and that applies to more than just the Politics section.

You don't need to explain yourself to me; take it up with the higher-ups. People on this forum aren't blind or deaf—they can see exactly how the moderation is being handled. There are real people with actual names behind those moderator handles, and they’re responsible for both their own actions and the actions of their subordinates. I could go on about that, but I won't right now.

I asked a specific question and I want a straight answer.
Is it permissible to use derogatory terms for certain social groups, provided the insults aren't directed at a specific user? Are Catholics allowed to call themselves unknown, or gay people called faggots, or immigrants called filth, etc.—just to give you some examples.

And for heaven's sake, you don't have to reply to every single thing I ask. I'm addressing the super-mods here! 🤷

John Perez85 said:And for heaven's sake, you don't have to answer every single thing I ask, I'm talking to the supermods here! 🤷

What supermods? You mean the moderators over at Reddit?

John Perez85 said:Is it okay to use slurs against certain social groups as long as we aren't targeting a specific user here? Like, can Catholics be called unknown, or gay people get hit with certain epithets, or immigrants called filth, just so I can give you some examples...

Do you actually have a link to a post where someone calls Catholics that specific slur and somehow managed to get reported without being punished?

Because honestly, your question doesn't even make sense unless that's the case...

I've seen plenty of posts calling certain Catholic organizations or groups that unknown label, but that’s a completely different story, much like saying someone who calls an unknown far-right group neo-Nazi clowns is insulting Americans...

Anyway, the answer to your questions is no, you can't call Catholics that name, nor any other group using those terms, though there is a distinction I mentioned earlier...

It's not like we have a rulebook where everyone follows their own gut feeling while sticking to the site rules, but I can tell you that personally, I'll definitely penalize a post that targets all Catholics with that slur, whereas I won't touch a post that just mocks an individual like Markić...

lonebadger6 said:...
Look, it's not like we have some official rulebook handed out to us, so everyone's just kind of winging it based on their own gut feeling and the general forum rules. But personally? I'm definitely gonna flag a post if people start calling all Catholics "unknowns," but I'm probably not gonna go after someone for calling Markić an "unknown."

That analogy really gets me thinking about this:
-I can't go around calling all Orthodox Christians "Chetniks," but apparently, I can target someone like Pupovac?
Because if you look at how the logic works here, it's basically saying we can't call Catholics or Orthodox folks "unknowns" or "Chetniks," but as long as we're targeting specific leaders based on how we feel about them, it's okay?

Daniel Ward87 said:What kind of supermoderators are we talking about here? The ones at the New York Times?

Now you've really gone and... 🤣
I have no clue how this forum's management is structured, but it’s definitely unacceptable to have a moderator assigned to me when I'm literally filing a complaint against their work.

Kevin Wood15 said:I can't go around calling every Orthodox person a Chetnik, but apparently, I'm allowed to take a swing at that guy Pupovac?

Nah, you can go ahead and roast Vučić if you want. 😁

So, if I follow the logic here, we aren't allowed to call Catholics or Orthodox Christians "unknowns" or "Chetniks," but because of how some people feel about certain representatives of those groups, we're suddenly okay with using those labels? Makes sense. Not.

Look, this isn't just about my personal opinion. You can't just throw stuff out there without some actual ground to stand on. You need a foundation.

lonebadger6 said:Do you have a link to a post where someone calls Catholics "unknowns" that was reported and yet went unpunished?

Two political moderators are actively policing this thread. I’ve managed to rack up two warnings on this exact topic alone—was I actually reported, or is the system just glitching? I expect some transparency here, especially since this isn't just a one-off thing.

And honestly, I don't get this sudden decline in standards. Two years ago, you were the one defending free speech when I argued against censoring pro-life discourse. Now you're a moderator, and what changed? 🤷
I'll still get flagged if I call an abortion a murder, yet your fellow mods perfectly tolerate people insulting Catholics and Catholic organizations.

Sarah Doyle54 said:Nah, but you can roast Vučić. 😁

It’s not just about being opinionated. You actually need some facts to back it up.

I’m dying to hear you explain the difference between Pupovac and Vučić. And while we're at it, I'd love to know what kind of "logic" you're using to call Ms. Markić an unknown...☕

Kevin Wood15 said:The logic here leads me to one conclusion;
I’m not allowed to label every Orthodox person a Chetnik, but I can get away with labeling an American leader like him?
Because if you plug that into the equation, what you're saying is we shouldn't call Catholics or Orthodox people unknown or Chetniks, yet based on some subjective opinion, we're totally fine calling certain representatives of theirs that...

Your formula works great, but your example doesn't. Unless, of course, you can actually find a single instance where he’s advocating for something like the "Republic of Mexican Krajina," trying to redraw American borders, or praising extremist movements...

Since your example is supposedly concrete, even though it's obvious you won't find anything remotely close to that—if you actually tried to make that claim, you'd probably rack up a few hundred points for hate speech depending on how intense you were being.

Like my colleague Sarah Doyle54 said, feel free to call Vučić a Chetnik all you want...

By the way, just a fair warning that you might catch a red card here on the forum, considering your other post is definitely leaning toward trolling...

John Perez85 said:I honestly don't get this sudden downward spiral. Just two years ago, you were the one championing free speech when I was asking why pro-life discourse was being censored. Now you're a moderator and suddenly everything changed... 🤷
I’ll still end up getting an appeal of a red card if I call abortion murder, yet your fellow mods will happily sit by while Catholics and Catholic groups get insulted.

We don't tolerate insults against Catholics. As for Catholic organizations—that depends entirely on their behavior. Even the Pope seems to be handing out metaphorical "red cards" to certain factions of the Church more often these days...

Regarding abortion, pro-life discourse is perfectly fine and we discuss it, but calling abortion murder is strictly prohibited here in the Politics section. I'm not sure how things work over in the Religion section; personally, I’d allow it there, but I don't run the show or moderate that board, so I can't say for sure how they handle things...

lonebadger6 said:Catholic organizations—depends on how they operate.

Are insults against Catholic groups allowed based solely on a moderator's whim?
Come on, man. Re-read that claim. Be fair and admit it’s fine. 🤷
Worst of all, this isn't just your opinion; it's the actual reality in threads involving the church and Catholics. I know this site is a private company, but it's not the owner moderating—it's people with names and faces.

Look at what someone using the handle lonebadger6 wrote right here two years ago:

I don't really get these arguments against calling abortion murder. That's literally the core of the disagreement!

I'm pro-choice, but I truly don't see the point in this constant bickering.

Then just ban any discussion about abortion entirely (in Politics). If abortion is an open topic, then obviously one side is going to call it murder. That's the whole foundation. They aren't against abortion because they hate white churches.

But today, we're supposed to accept that moderators use their discretion to decide who gets insulted and when? 🤷

Look, some of us have been on this forum forever, like elephants, and we know exactly how things go down.
And no, I'm not attacking you personally, but I'm genuinely trying to figure out what's happening with the political section moderation. How do aggressive haters like Sarah Doyle54 end up as moderators, while others get banned for no reason?

lonebadger6 said:We don't tolerate insults directed at Catholics, though whether Catholic organizations are off-limits depends entirely on how they conduct themselves. It seems the Pope is increasingly handing out metaphorical "red cards" to certain factions within the Church.

What exactly do you mean by "depending on how they conduct themselves"? Does that imply that insulting organizations run by unknown is acceptable if their behavior warrants it? If I personally feel their actions are misguided, am I then permitted to label them accordingly? If we allow such scrutiny for Catholic groups, shouldn't that same standard apply to every other organization out there? Surely we wouldn't want to be accused of hypocrisy, would we?

lonebadger6 said:Regarding abortion, pro-life discourse is perfectly fine and open for debate, but explicitly labeling abortion as murder is prohibited here on the Politics board. I'm not entirely sure what the rules are over on the Religion board—personally, I would permit it there—but I'm certainly not the owner or a moderator of that section, so I can't speak to how things are handled there.

But how, then, are we supposed to engage in a meaningful discussion about abortion? For me, viewing abortion as murder is the fundamental starting point of any serious conversation on the matter. How can one possibly debate the topic if you strip away the primary argument used by one side? In the end, as we see from your own words, even you seem uncertain about why these arguments against calling abortion murder are being contested.

John Perez85 said:Are insults against Catholic organizations permitted based solely on how a moderator feels like judging them?

The moderation team acts as the ultimate authority on what is "correct."
If they decide something is true just because they subjectively feel that way, then according to them, that’s just how reality works. It's their opinion, so it becomes the rule.

It is honestly quite amusing to watch them operate like this.🙂

To the group and others, my stance hasn't shifted an inch since our last discussion. Using slurs against Catholic believers is a violation that warrants discipline, and it should be treated as such. It is entirely possible that some instances were overlooked—errors happen—but I am issuing a challenge to you and everyone else here: if you can point out where this offensive terminology is being used to label those of the Catholic faith, I will personally go back through the last 15 days of reported posts and issue bans for every single one.

The other moderators have already covered the specifics in this thread, so I don't see much need for me to repeat myself. To put it briefly, forum participants shouldn't be held to the same standard as public figures. Public figures or organizations aren't synonymous with the communities they represent, or the rights they claim to champion. One must consider the specific context of a debate when judging whether a certain label is justified based on the actors involved.

On behalf of the Politics moderation team, please accept our apologies for any lapses in penalizing insults directed at believers. As I mentioned above, we will be conducting a retrospective review to intervene wherever necessary.