Printer Buying Guide (Summer 2016)

wiredotter14 said:The HP Envy was a hit because the ink is dirt cheap, but you can only find it at the Glock store.
The Model 3 is out there too, but the newer generation comes with pricier ink. Check Amazon.
It’s not like you're printing thousands of pages, so those $40-$17 cartridges aren't breaking the bank.
As for reliability, if you buy a device for $167, don't expect a Mercedes; just make sure you get that 24-month warranty coverage.

Is there an HP or Canon or something similar? They've had terrible luck with Epsons—their current one has already been in the shop twice...

hollowmarlin27 said:Look,

There's an old saying we use here.

>> The first kittens dive into the water.

I think that's how it works with first printers.

Why?

Just ask anyone. Common sense usually doesn't care about someone's corporate bottom line.

If you don't have a specific model or ink recommendation to offer, shut it. So far, you haven't said anything useful, you're just acting like a know-it-all.

I can't give you an immediate answer on specific models in that price bracket. The whole ink situation shifts with every new generation, so you really have to weigh the printer cost against the ink prices and check the feedback on Amazon. Honestly, reviews don't tell you much about actual long-term running costs.

Otherwise, if you can swing it, I’d recommend grabbing a slightly higher-end model that more people can share. Given the volume you mentioned, it’s just not worth overinvesting in a cheap unit.
For example, at my office, we use two identical Brother printers. Each one was an $500, and on that first one, we printed maybe 40-50k pages—just brother to brother—and it still works fine. (And that's just counting official paperwork; people were printing college study guides on top of that.)
Keep in mind, the black ink costs $8.25 and lasts for about 2,500 pages of text. It's an OfficeJet, and you can still find new ones on eBay; it's one of those rare series that uses ink without any annoying chips.

If you're looking to spend more than $333, you could probably pick up something much more solid with lower printing costs.
Also, I think sharing an inkjet is a smart move because the main reason they die is disuse—especially when people only ever print in black and white and the color nozzles clog up.

P.s. typing this on my phone, autocorrect is driving me crazy.

wiredotter14 said:I can't give you a specific recommendation off the top of my head for that budget. Ink costs shift every time a new generation comes out, so you really have to look at the combo of the printer plus the ink cost and check the feedback on Amazon. Reviews don't actually tell you much about real-world running costs.

Honestly, if you can swing it, just get a slightly better model that multiple people can share. Given how much you say you're printing, it’s not worth sinking too much money into a cheap unit.
For example, we use two identical Brother printers at our office—both were $500—and we've run 40-50k pages through the first one alone, and it's still kicking. (And that's just the official stuff; people were also printing college study guides on it.)
Keep in mind, black ink costs $8.25 and lasts for about 2,500 pages of text. It's an OfficeJet, and you can still find new ones on eBay. They're one of the few remaining series that use inks without any annoying chips.

I think if you go over $333, you could grab something much more solid with cheaper printing costs.
Also, sharing an inkjet is a smart move because the main reason they die is sitting idle—especially the color cartridges, since most people just print in black and white.

P.s. typing this on my phone, autocorrect is acting up.

Actually, I don't know, this isn't an office printer meant for massive print jobs, so... it's a home computer, used by a teacher to print lesson materials. Nothing crazy...

Robert Rodriguez2 said:Does anyone have an HP or a Canon or something in that ballpark? They’ve had a nightmare experience with Epsons—the one they're using right now has already been sent in for repairs twice...

Look, if you don't actually have a specific model recommendation or know where to get cheap ink, just stay quiet. So far, you haven't said anything useful on this thread; you're just acting like a know-it-all.

You clearly don't trust common sense.

Fine then. Be a beta tester every single time you buy a new printer model.

Because nobody actually knows how these things will hold up after 12 months. And once you finally figure out which ones are reliable, you won't be able to buy them anymore because the "latest and greatest" models will be out. Which, again, nobody knows how those will behave after 12 months either.

And if someone actually suggests something concrete and proven, you shoot it down because it isn't "new" and "untested."

So there's really no point in offering any actual advice.

Got it?

https://www.amazon.com/hp-envy-multifunction-printer/dp/B08XXXXXXX

This one comes with individual ink tanks that hold about 12.5ml each—supposedly enough for 500 to 800 pages according to 😬. You can pick up generic refills for anywhere from 50 to $27, which isn't actually a total rip-off.

I’ve been using this line for a while now (this is just a redesign of my old one) and haven't run into any issues. Honestly, I only bought official ink twice before I just rigged up a CISS system myself, and it's been working fine ever since...

darkowl72👍

Honestly, this HP Envy doesn't have such terrible reviews
http://moj-toner.com/printeri-shop/prodaja/epson-xp-225
https://www.amazon.com/Epson-Expre.../dp/B00NAWLQKI

Ink costs are peanuts
http://www.nabava.net/search.php?tp=0&q=xp-225

You could save maybe 30-$13, and from what I've seen, cheap printing just makes you want to print more 😁

darkowl72 said:https://www.staples.com/printer-ink-refills

This one uses individual ink tanks with decent capacity—about 12.5ml per tank, enough for 500-800 pages according to 😬. Third-party replacements run about $50-$27, which isn't a total rip-off.

I've been running this thing for a while (this is just a redesign of my old one) and it's solid. I only bought official ink twice before I just installed a Cissom setup and now I'm good to go...

What's a Cissom kit, how do you install it, and what's the damage to my wallet? 😁

Robert Rodriguez2 said:What even is a Cissom system? How do you install it and what’s the damage to my wallet? 😁

Something like this

wiredotter14 said:something like this

Is this basically just an ink-saving setup? Or is it more about being able to run cheap third-party inks regardless?
edit: nvm, Google actually did its job for once.

You can find plenty of YouTube tutorials on how to install these kits for various models. I actually managed to pull off a mod on my old 5550, even though it was technically "impossible" to fit one in. Honestly, you can make anything work if you try hard enough. Some crazy guys over in Russia posted guides showing exactly where to trim the plastic housing to make everything fit. It’s like Canon intentionally designs the casing with useless plastic just to prevent you from using a Cissom system. 😬I just used a heated needle to cut out the excess, popped it all together, and now you can't even tell from the outside—but it works perfectly.

I’m curious—how much are you guys actually printing each month to make a Cissom system worth it? Also, what would you say is the absolute minimum monthly print volume needed to justify making the switch?

Honestly, if you're looking for the absolute gold standard in printing, the c42ux is hands down the best machine out there! ☕

It really depends on what kind of alternative you're looking at—basically, how much cash you're willing to sink into a printer upfront.

The thing is, if you're willing to spend a little more initially, you can snag a solid printer with (extremely) cheap ink costs.

But looking at the standard setup: if third-party inks run you about 40-$17, then the cost per page ends up being roughly $0.03/page. It’s manageable, but definitely not "cheap."
So, if using a Cissom system cuts your ink costs by practically 90%, you're saving $30 for every 1,000 pages printed. If the cost for the Cissom kit plus the initial ink is somewhere around 300-$167, you’d likely break even after maybe 5,000 pages compared to using decent, mid-range replacement inks.

That said, I'd be way more cautious with those systems regarding how often they actually get used. I'm not entirely sure how much of a headache they are to clean out if they sit idle for too long, whereas with standard cartridges, you basically solve half those issues just by swapping them out.

wiredotter14 said:it really depends on what alternative you're looking at—basically, how much cash you're willing to drop upfront on the printer itself.

Basically, if you're willing to spend a little more initially, you can grab a solid printer paired with (really) cheap ink.

But let's look at the usual scenario; if third-party inks run you about $40-$17, then your cost per page ends up being roughly $0.03, which isn't exactly breaking the bank, but it's not dirt cheap either.
So, if using a Continuous Ink Supply System saves you practically 90% on ink, you're looking at saving $30 every 1,000 pages. If the price for the Continuous Ink Supply System plus installation and the initial ink setup is around $300-$167, you'll probably break even after maybe 5,000 pages compared to using mid-range replacement inks.

That said, I’d be a bit more cautious about letting a system like that sit idle. I'm not entirely sure how much of a headache it is to clean out if you don't use it regularly, whereas with standard cartridges, you kind of solve half that problem just by swapping them out.

When it comes to the actual cost per print, there's no real difference between a Continuous Ink Supply System and permanent cartridges.

The only real kicker is that a Continuous Ink Supply System basically requires a regular technician to keep things running, while permanent cartridges don't demand that kind of upkeep.

wiredotter14 said:darkowl72👍

I suppose this Epson doesn't have such terrible reviews
http://moj-toner.com/printeri-shop/prodaja/epson-xp-225
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-Expre.../dp/B00NAWLQKI

The ink costs are practically peanuts
http://www.nabava.net/search.php?tp=0&q=xp-225

You could potentially save maybe 30 to $13, and if my experience is anything to go by, cheap printing just creates a constant demand for more 😁

Now, this actually doesn't look too bad... it's even cheap, which I guess is a plus :-) though it only mentions original black ink $60, but what about third-party $4.75??! Is it just me, or does something feel a little fishy here??!

hollowmarlin27 said:When you look at the cost per print, there isn't any real difference between using a Continuous Ink Supply System or permanent cartridges.

The only difference is that a Continuous Ink Supply System requires constant trips to a local repair shop, whereas permanent cartridges don't.

Wait, what are you even talking about regarding permanent cartridges? What do you mean by "service," and what kind of technician are you even referring to here? You just have to refill the ink tank. For crying out loud, when you drive a car, you have to pull up to a gas station to refuel, but nobody calls themselves a mechanic just for doing that.🤷

darkowl72 said:Look, please explain this "refillable cartridge" thing. What do you actually mean by that, and what kind of "technician" are you talking about? You mean just pouring ink into a tank? Give me a break. When you drive a car, you refill the gas, but nobody calls you a mechanic. 🤷

Refillable cartridges are basically cartridges you don't toss; they have a resettable chip that resets every time the printer claims it's out of ink. You just pop the cartridge out and put it back in. Since the cartridge holds 13 ml but the status monitor is calibrated for maybe 3.5 to 7.5 ml, you can easily refill these every two or three uses without any drama.

As for CISS versus CISS—it really only works reliably on Epson printers or high-end HP models.

With Canon, it only lasts long-term on the IP 1300 - 2200 series. In fact, that’s exactly why Canon released their own low-cost CISS line on that specific platform.

So, ask yourself why they didn't just do that for the IP xxxx series.

From my experience, out of about 10 to 15 Canon IP 4600 - 4900 units we used with a CISS for CD/DVD printing, only two survived longer than 12 months. One of them was constantly coming in every three months for adjustments. The other was at a local print shop where they treated it better than a vintage Mustang.

And when they finally died? They were toast.
Why?

Because all those Canon CISS setups use cartridges within the system that contain a sponge. Epsons don't have a SPONGE in their CISS setup. That sponge acts as a separator for the different components of the ink. Basically, gunk or ink breakdown accumulates in the sponge cells. We're talking resin or pigment crystals forming because the ink density changes. Those impurities in the sponge eventually block the ink flow entirely.

In high-volume CD production jobs, you wouldn't even notice the reduced flow until a heating element failed due to poor circulation and cooling.

That doesn't happen with Epson because there's no heating involved and no heaters to speak of. No sponge separation either. So, if the ink in the system is verified and good, and the user ensures their consumption matches the CISS flow rate, the whole thing is essentially Plug and Play, just like using REFILLABLE CARTRIDGES.

If the ink isn't up to par, then either the wire filter in the refillable cartridges clogs or the dampers in the CISS clog. And then you have to replace them.

With a Canon CISS, the user usually doesn't realize there's a problem with the wire pre-filters until the damage is already done. That's why you need to check the ink circulation in the cartridges periodically and swap them out preventatively.

When you add it all up, for someone who isn't printing massive volumes, refillable cartridges are the smartest move. The cost per print is the same as a CISS, but by swapping cartridges in the same machine, you can switch between:

Photo Dye ink
standard pigmented ink for decoupage
sublimation ink
DTG pigmented ink
Eco Solvent ink
or even UV ink.

With a CISS, that's an illusion. You'd have to flush the entire system just to try a different ink. Then you deal with drying issues, tubing dissolving, and so on.

boldfox372 said:not bad looking... actually pretty cheap too :-) except for the OEM black ink $60, but what about the refill $4.75??! am I crazy or does something smell fishy here??!

nah, the price of refill ink mostly comes down to whatever chip is sitting in the cartridge—basically, you're paying for the chip, not the liquid.
I've got a printer where the cartridges don't even have chips, so I pick up 72ml bottles for about $5.00.

Look, I don't know about you, but I find a Continuous Ink Supply System way easier than dealing with cartridges. With a CISS, I don't even have to pull anything out of the printer; I just top off the tanks whenever they look low. So, what you said about needing a local repair guy doesn't really hold water for me. Not trying to start a war over different brands and models here.

But yeah, you're spot on about using different ink types—that's a huge plus!

By the way, I've been running a Canon MG5550 with one of these setups for quite a while now without any major headaches. I just run a cleaning cycle every once in a while and call it a day.

darkowl72 said:I don't know, personally I find CISS way easier than cartridges because I don't even have to pull anything out of the printer—I just top off the tanks when needed. So, what you said about needing a repair shop doesn't really hold up. Not trying to start a fight over specific brands or models here.

But yeah, the part about using different types of ink? That's spot on and totally valid.

Look, here's the deal.
How much ink have you actually burned through on your Canon?

Or better yet, check the service manual for your Canon under Print Head Yields.
You'll see the head is designed for maybe 3,000 to 5,000 full-color prints. On average, that’s about 100 to 200 ml per channel. Once you hit that, you're looking at a new head. But wait—you also have to replace the Dampere because they get clogged. By the time you add up a new head plus new dampers, you've basically spent as much as a whole new printer. And those dampers cost as much as a new CISS setup. Basically, the old Canon goes straight to the trash along with the CISS. With cartridges, you just toss the cartridge and the old printer.

On the other hand, if you go with something like a Canon IP 1800 plus a CISS, once you've used up roughly 30 to 50 ml per color (depending on how hard you push the color head), you only need to swap the color head. The black head lasts twice as long. You can pick up a new color head for peanuts $53 and just keep on trucking.

That's exactly why Canon built their G series on the IP 1800 platform instead of the IP 7250.

There's one more thing.
Have you ever tried running 10 or 20 full A4 prints back-to-back on your Canon? There's no way it can handle that. And that’s exactly what people doing high-volume printing for things like Cavere jewel cases were doing. It happens for a simple reason: the Canon IP 7250 and similar models rely on gravity to feed the ink. If you ramp up the usage, air just breaks through the seals on the cartridges. Air gets into the nozzles, and then the circus begins. With the IP 1800, that's almost impossible because the head is sealed tight. It's the same with Epson; you won't get air leaks because Epson has better damper sealing than Canon, and they don't rely on gravity. They use piezo crystals that create suction, working more like a piston pump. One other thing: if you push an Epson too hard on volume or speed, that vacuum can suck air through inactive nozzles, pulling in paper dust. That dust clumps up in the ink, and suddenly you're dealing with a mess again.

So, if you use cartridges with an Epson, keep them filled with high-quality ink and don't try to win any drag races with the print speed, the whole setup can run for years without a hitch.

The people having all the problems? They’re usually doing the exact opposite. And of course, in their minds, they're never the problem. It's always Epson's fault.