Printer Buying Guide (Summer 2016)

darkowl72 said:Give me some drama, some action...

So now, after a few years, HP finally realized they couldn't just sell their souls for pennies. They’re pivoting the budget line again with these mediocre devices—part of the Deskjet 5000 series—but honestly, the build quality is nowhere near the old professional models. Of course, the cartridges aren't the same either. Instead of 40ml, we're looking at tiny 5ml or maybe 15–20ml packs. And get this: the price per cartridge stayed the same. Since the cost matches what the 40ml ones used to be, you're effectively paying 50–80% more just for the privilege. Why? To force people into buying the newest generation. Customers see that the new printers use "cheaper" cartridges, not realizing they actually contain 50% less ink for the same buck. Basically, they want you to toss your reliable pro gear and grab the latest model that offers half the capacity for the same price.

And things move fast. Today's current crop of HP Deskjet printers uses those same Deskjet 5000 cartridges, but with another 50% drop in capacity. So, the current HP models you see sitting on shelves for $300 – $133 have barely a quarter of the ink capacity compared to those old-school 40ml professional units. Sure, they might be a little faster, but mechanically, they're built to last about an eighth of the lifespan of the old Deskjet 800 generation.

Now here’s where the plot thickens. Since HP doesn't care about the users of the HP Deskjet 900 era anymore, they’ve conveniently jacked up the price of the HP 78 color cartridges for those older machines. It’s absolute madness. You’re looking at maybe $100 for a single color cartridge. Naturally, any sane person thinks, "Why would I pay $100 when I can just buy a brand-new HP Deskjet printer?" And then the old one goes straight into the trash. That's why you see them being dumped on Craigslist or eBay for like $17. We're talking about professional-grade machines with tanks for chassis and an 80,000-page lifespan, being tossed in the bin after only 2,000 or 3,000 prints. Just think about that level of waste and planned obsolescence. Someone rigged the game for profit, and everyone's just chasing the shiny new bait.

Should I keep going?

From what I can tell, we’re still stuck in the nineties—I mean, you guys are still posting just like always, and while the conversation hasn't really moved on, it is actually 2016 now.

hollowmarlin27 said:What exactly does this young lady stand to gain from all this?

So you're just going to tell me exactly what's what? Interested? So, which printer manufacturer actually knows what they're doing?

You could just say that to my face. Interested. What kind of states are we talking about here?

So, does this girl think the manufacturer and the government are actually on the same page? Interested..

Look, just try looking at it from that perspective for a second.

Or maybe the bottom line is this: both the government and the manufacturer are totally in cahoots. They’re just looking for any excuse to fleece a girl like this, all while putting on this massive act about being compassionate humanitarians or socially conscious. They pretend everything they do is for her benefit, but we all know the score, right?

So how is anyone supposed to suggest or secure some solid alternative that doesn't just line the pockets of the people mentioned above without getting slapped down for it?

Look at it from that perspective for a second.
Ready when you are. What have you got for me?

The bottom line? You’re just spinning whatever narrative keeps people buying your used junk.

What they aren't contributing to those funds, they’re draining from yours. That’s exactly why letting someone run free advertisements on this forum is such a massive mistake.

Do you honestly think anyone in their right mind would buy anything from a company that can't even afford a decent website or actual advertising? The web is basically a relic from the Stone Age. Spamming every single forum out there is just going to scare off any actual customers. Do people really think a serious company is going to fall for that? Not a chance.

Man, when people land on your site, they honestly think they’ve been accidentally redirected to some digital archive from 1995. That whole aesthetic? It’s like stepping back in time. You just don't run into products from that era very often anymore.

Mark Hill90 said:It feels like we’re still stuck in the nineties. Seriously, you guys are still talking about the same old stuff? For now, the conversation hasn't changed a bit, but newsflash: it's 2016.

The products actually match the website's aesthetic.

Mark Hill90 said:From what I can tell, we're still stuck in the nineties. You guys keep posting, everything seems to be standing still, but it's actually 2016.

Look, sure, maybe HP was the No ONE among printers back in the day, but that doesn't mean everyone else stayed sane. Chinese people have gotten really good at this; they use all sorts of local suppliers to mass-collect things like HP 45 and HP78 inkjet cartridges. Once they've gathered enough, they ship them in bulk to China for processing, only for those exact same cartridges to come right back to us looking "NEW." So, the customer thinks they're buying fresh stock, when really they're just getting cartridges where the heating elements have already done a full cycle. Since original new ones cost about $100, these refurbished ones easily hit the $120 – $50 mark, which isn't bad for 40ml. There's also a local option to refurbish those same HP 45 and HP78 cartridges for around $100 – $37. Just for comparison, standard replacement cartridges for Epson usually hold 3.5 to 5.5ml, making them a much smarter choice. But since it’s in the suppliers' best interest to sell those Epson replacements—which carry about 5ml for $6.75—they end up charging $160 – $67 for the same amount of ink. That makes finding quality HP 45 or HP 78 replacements pretty difficult. Basically, because originals are priced at $100, even the Chinese market is running low on that supply of "fresh" used cartridges. Or rather, you can't successfully refill old HP 78 cartridges locally anymore, even if new ones can handle 3-4 refills before the structure starts falling apart. See, the glue HP uses to hold the head and nozzles together just disintegrates at the slightly higher temperatures needed during nozzle cleaning. And that's it. End of story. These printers are great machines. It's a shame to toss them. We've documented that with a refill, they can last up to 80,000 prints. Meanwhile, today's heads die after 10,000. So, what now?

Should I keep going?

Oh, absolutely—but can we please try to drag this conversation into the 21st century for once?

Mark Hill90 said:Yeah, obviously. Can we actually step into the 21st century for once?

God, you're impatient. Even the Iliad didn't get sung in a single night.

Mark Hill90 said:Oh sure, but can we actually try living in the 21st century for once?

Honestly, none of this should be news to anyone who actually works in this field. Not even to the Chinese manufacturers. As part of their long-term strategy, those guys in China started emulating HP inkjet heads. They basically built entirely new, HP-compatible inkjet heads from the ground up. We aren't talking about recycled parts here; they’re completely new units that are virtually indistinguishable from the actual HP 45 or HP 78 inkjet heads or cartridges. You can pick these up on the market for maybe 120 $47 bucks. But there's always a catch—you never truly know what you're getting because your favorite distributor might have one batch in stock today and a completely different set tomorrow. In theory, as a user, you shouldn't care as long as the cartridge performs consistently.

Well, shortly after those replacement cartridges hit the scene, the Chinese companies also rolled out CISS systems for the HP DeskJet 900 series of professional printers. Just imagine: you have a professional-grade inkjet rated for 80,000 prints that only costs you a couple hundred bucks, and on top of that, you can install a CISS system. If the head dies, you just grab a cheap replacement HP 78 or HP 45 head from a Chinese supplier and keep on printing. Compare that to an Epson or a Canon; if the head fails on a CISS setup, a new head costs almost as much as a whole new printer. In that scenario, the printer, the head, and the now-useless CISS all end up in the trash. The only exception is with the HP OfficeJet or Business jet lines, but that's a whole different story.
http://en.ofweek.com/Product/Refilla...65-959092.html
So, here's the deal: let's call this company "3A." They ordered about ten CISS systems from China along with a specific amount of spare heads. To avoid any confusion, they ordered everything from the same supplier—ink, the HP 45 and HP 78 heads, and the CISS systems all together. The supplier sent over test prints and a decent manual. Everything looked perfect on paper. It all arrived via Hong Kong at the 3A offices. They installed everything into an HP DeskJet 970 without a hitch, but as soon as they ran a few prints, things went south. One minute the print is fine, the next it's gone. It was a complete mess; the more they tried to fix it, the worse it got. They even tried using brand new, unopened heads and set up a CISS using verified Premium German-made ink for the HP 45 and HP 78. Zero difference. Same result. Before long, the cartridges started acting up too. Some components just burned out, and that was it. That was the entire shipment of CISS kits for the HP DeskJet 900 series. A total disaster. You could practically spit in the face of the supplier in China. Long story short: total failure. There's no hope for that "brilliant" idea: Pro mechanics + cheap ink + CISS + cheap replacement heads. The HP DeskJet 900 series is definitely destined for the recycling bin.

Should I keep going?

hollowmarlin27 said:Should I keep going?

Don't you dare!

Keep talking, please—this is absolutely brutal. Honestly, my life is only just starting to make any sense now; I hadn't even considered things from this perspective before.

Mark Hill90 said:Oh, please, keep going. This is gold. My life is finally making sense; I hadn't even considered looking at it this way.

For this whole story to actually make sense, we need to branch out into a couple of other scenarios. Basically, how the project using CISS systems on the HP DeskJet platform was a total bust. But at the same time, it works perfectly on HP Business and OfficeJet 3a models, which makes you wonder: what other Low cost printer could possibly match my performance and CISS setup compared to this HP DeskJet professional series? Sure, a CISS system works fine on an Epson. But the moment the print head dies on an Epson, the whole CISS setup goes straight into the trash. So that whole idea—cheap ink plus a cheap print head—just doesn't hold water here. New models come out constantly, and they’re all getting mechanically worse. None of them even come close to that indestructible HP DeskJet mechanics. The only ones on that level, or maybe even more rugged, are the HP OfficeJet or Business jet lines. But that’s not what $17 was talking about. Instead, the choice landed on the Canon iP 1200 - 2500 printers. Why? Because just like the HP DeskJet 900, these Canons use a concept where the cartridges and the print head are one disposable unit. Meaning, when the head dies, you just buy a new one for maybe $150 - $160, plug it into the CISS, and keep rolling. It’s the exact same concept as that CISS for the HP DeskJet 900 that failed miserably. Which turned out to be a stroke of genius, because now, five years later, Canon has released its own CISS G series using that exact same mechanism on the iP 1xxx line.
And it turns out this CISS concept actually works flawlessly. Essentially, after you've used up about 50 ml per channel, you just swap the head. Or sooner if one channel gets overworked. You aren't tossing the printer, and you aren't tossing the CISS. You just swap heads and refill the ink. It's exactly how the concept for the HP DeskJet 900 was originally intended to work. The only catch is that the mechanics on these Canon iP 1xxx units are designed to last for maybe 10,000 prints max. See, the HP DeskJet 900 series we wrote off back then had graphite bronze guides. That’s what made it a professional, high-end build. Meanwhile, all these newer, cheap Canons and Epsons (including the Epson L series) just have plastic scraping against some sheet metal. After about 10,000 prints, that metal cuts into the plastic, the whole print head carriage drops, and it starts slamming into the paper until something snaps. So, yeah, it all works beautifully, but it’s not meant for an $80,000 professional setup.

As far as CISS installations go, current HP DeskJet models are absolute garbage compared to this Canon.

Want me to keep going?

da

wiredotter14 said:yeah

Look, here’s the deal. We have three proven, reliable CISS platforms that actually work. One is Epson. The second is an HP OI or BI based on the HP 11 or HP 88 because they come with built-in CISS. The IP 1 xxx also works just fine. So the question becomes: which CISS is king? The answer is Epson. Why? Because unlike HP or Canon, you can't just swap heads—if the head dies, the whole system is basically trash. This is because Epson uses piezo inkjet technology, whereas HP and Canon rely on Bubble jet or thermal printing. What's the difference? Well, Epson shoots ink using tiny piezo crystal pulses while it stays cold. HP and Canon use heat to essentially boil the ink. And here's the kicker: because of those crystals, Epson can fire all sorts of stuff—standard dye, pigment, sublimation, DTG, or even eco Solvent ink. Canon and HP are pretty much stuck with dye and pigment. So, if you need water-resistant or UV-resistant prints, or if you want to print on weird stuff like textiles, ceramics, wood, or plastic, Epson with a CISS gives you a massive variety of inks. With HP or Canon, especially on desktop units, you're pretty much out of luck. If you wanted to build a DTS printer for tiles, with Epson, it's a piece of cake. Just look at how many DIY projects like that are on YouTube. You won't find a single one using HP or Canon. That's a huge point.

But now comes the plot twist. Since HP is a company driven by nothing but profit, they’re pulling a classic move. Remember when HP overnight rebranded the professional DeskJet 800 series from $667 down to the consumer-grade 500 series—$267? Now, overnight, HP is recycling that exact same "obsolete" tech. It's the kind of gear you could pick up on Craigslist for maybe $50—$33. It's the same software. Identical communication between the print head and the logic board. Identical communication between the logic board and some Mini PC controller using the well-known, reliable, and documented PCL 3 language. Mind you, almost all inkjet printers today are GDI devices. The reason the HP DeskJet 800 and 900 were considered professional was specifically because they communicated via PCL 3, which is similar to the PCL 5 or 6 used in laser printers. It's a very compact code sent via the Mini PC controller.

And with one signature, HP turned the old HP DeskJet 900 technology into a product marking system. Same protocol, same battle-tested, professional HP 45 heads. Only the ink inside them is different. Essentially, there's an entire palette of HP TIJ heads that are physically and digitally identical to the HP 45 but tuned for different media. Suddenly, that HP DeskJet 900 doesn't cost you around $33 anymore; it's sitting at $600–$1000. And those new HP 45 heads with the new HP TIJ aren't $100—$67 anymore; they're closer to $400. Plus, you can easily grab them from specialized dealers who sell HP TIJ marking equipment. Basically, HP now has the same "ace up the sleeve" for printing on various materials that Epson has.

Want to keep going?

hollowmarlin27 said:So, basically, HP finally has an ace up its sleeve for printing on all sorts of different materials—just like Epson.

Shall we move on?

Let's move on, sure—but which specific HP model are we actually talking about here that can somehow go toe-to-toe with Epson and their piezo technology?

Mark Hill90 said:Let's keep going, but which specific HP model actually has enough juice to go toe-to-toe with an Epson and its piezo tech?

Take a look at this lineup of compatible HP TIJ heads for the HP 45. They basically have a specialized head for every single application imaginable—from standard paper and glossy stock to plastic, aluminum, or even printing on eggs. You can do black ink or full color. Just one thing to keep in mind: this range doesn't include the HP 78 tri-color cartridge. It’s strictly monochrome HP 45. It’s pretty obvious HP moved away from that setup. So, if you have some niche requirement or you're trying to compete with Epson's massive application list, you could always jump up to the HP DeskJet 900 professional series. Printing on offset plates shouldn't be an issue there either.

But what if we take this ink from those HP color cartridges and pop it into an HP 78? What would our little "Company A" think about that? All we'd need is to source some HP TIJ ink in cyan, magenta, and yellow. Of course, HP isn't actually manufacturing this stuff themselves; they're sourcing it from specialists who actually know what they're doing. We once tried putting Epson DTG pigmented ink into an HP 78. Total disaster. The thermal HP tech kept running for over an hour without any luck. See, if you want a print that actually sticks to different materials, the ink needs some kind of polymer that will cure—either in the air (not an option, unless you want the nozzles to clog instantly), after the solvents evaporate, or via a heat press or oven. HP won't touch that kind of ink because their printhead is a thermal device, making it the perfect tool for polymerization. Basically, this HP TIJ ink is some exotic, high-end stuff specifically engineered for HP hardware.

So, our "Company A" finally discovers that this specific ink for HP is actually produced by a massive US conglomerate called "4B." Now, what do you honestly think a giant like 4B is going to do? Give our tiny "Company A" the exact same ink that HP sells? These things move in barrels of at least 200 liters. Unless you're ordering 800 liters, 4B won't even pick up the phone. Somehow, though, our friends at Company A managed to snag some 5-liter samples. For context, a standard Epson cartridge holds maybe 3.5 to 5 ml, while an HP 45 holds 40 ml. Imagine how much you can get out of 20 liters of this premium HP TIJ ink.

HP Special printing systems

HP Labels VIDEO

HP TIJ 2.5 technology

HP 45SI Solvent VIDEO

HP 45 POLYMER VIDEO

Food-grade 45 ink

Shall we continue?

But let’s be real—your average Joe isn't out there printing on custom tiles, fabric, wood, or ceramic pieces. They’re just printing on standard paper.

Mark Hill90 said:But regular users just print on regular paper, not on printed tiles, fabric, wood, or ceramics.

Fine.
In that case, I've got nothing left to say.

Hallelujah, I’m speaking on behalf of all us regular folks here.

Then you’ve got that guy—you know, the one everyone’s calling the American Gianni Versace lately on all those news sites—he’d probably be dying to print on ceramic tiles, fabric, or even printed tiles.

So, I finally ended up grabbing a Brother printer/scanner/copier combo—mostly just to tide me over until my other one inevitably dies on me. Honestly, I’d never even heard of this specific model before, but so far, it’s actually holding up pretty well. That said, I haven't really bothered to check how much the ink is going to run me.

Which one specifically? If it isn't a refurbished model, there are plenty of cheap ink options for Brother

wiredotter14 said:Which one specifically? If you aren't using genuine ink, there are plenty of cheap third-party colors out there for the Brother printer.

The Brother LC985 has actually been a total workhorse so far. I can't say for sure how it'll hold up long-term since I didn't buy it brand new, but so far, so good.