Handball Euro: USA vs. France 25-27

graniteotter6 said:Boldano, I'm laughing my head off and hitting like.
Does that mean Qatar will get a free pass too? 🙂

You didn't even mention Poland in 2016, which honestly wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Maybe Qatar makes it out of the group stage on their debut if they just turn off the AC in the arena or something. In the meantime, they could just offer Gobac Citizenship. That way, everyone wins—us, them, and Gobac.

As for Poland, they're undergoing a generational shift. They don't really have any massive talents, even if Kielce is an incredible club. They might scrape into a semifinal, but I doubt it.

The era of the Danes is coming. I think they'll take either the next WC or the Olympics.

We're stuck with bronze.

Betty Anderson65 said:Well, it is what it is.
The guys really gave it their all and left everything on the floor. They just needed to capitalize on those Frenchman mistakes the way we made our own.
Also, Musa gets a bit too wild out there; he needs to dial it back. Playing like that just leads to unnecessary penalties.

It’s not just "what it is."
There is an interesting thought I once came across: The only principle that does not inhibit progress is anything goes.
We absolutely have to criticize today's performance. Why just shrug our shoulders?...
Based on pure individual talent and how well our players perform in their professional clubs, we should be walking away with gold every other tournament—not settling for bronze, but aiming for gold.

Back when they were truly at their peak, we only managed to edge them out during that tournament in Norway... and honestly, it was all thanks to Dominikovic’s tactical call during a timeout, where he decided to shift Narcissa to the right side to better align with his block.

Jacob Johnson70 said:Is Smajlagić out of the coaching staff? 🤷

Bingo. We haven't seen any gold since he left. I guess if we hadn't dealt with that whole tragedy involving Metličić against the Canadians back in 2004, I really don't doubt they would have taken down the Germans in the finals too.

Edit

Raymond Anderson4 said:It is what it is, and there is no use fighting reality.
There is an interesting perspective out there: "The only principle that does not inhibit progress is anything goes."
We absolutely ought to be critical of how we played today, rather than just shrugging our shoulders in resignation...
When you consider the sheer individual talent and the high level our players maintain while playing for their pro clubs, we should be walking away with gold medals at every tournament, not settling for bronze.

I think you might be missing the mark here. I truly respect your passion for following the sport, but in the States, most fans only tune in for the National Team or perhaps the Final Four. For instance, back when Pere was playing in Ciudad, Olafur was often holding down that same position, much like how Ivano struggled to find his rhythm during his time with the Portland team—though he did have that one spectacular season. Back then, we didn't even have a reliable goalkeeper, and our left wing was merely mediocre, even if China played an incredible game against us using that 3-2-1 defense. Nowadays, we don't have two elite wingers at a world-class level, and Cupko is clearly struggling as his form slips. It seems people here are always too quick to underestimate the competition and what they bring to the table.

wiredtrucker20 said:Are we really neck and neck? In the 2008 and 2012 Olympics, they knocked us out in the semis, back in 2007 at the World Cup we hit a wall in the quarters, then in 2009 they beat us in the finals, and in the 2010 World Cup they took us down in the finals too. During that same stretch, they were hitting semifinals in the 2008 European Championship and quarters in the 2013 World Cup. We still managed to snag a few wins during the group stages, though. Honestly, I’d trade places with them in a heartbeat for this kind of "equality." Not to mention, whenever they beat us, they usually walked away with gold and built that reputation as a powerhouse squad—while all we got left was those French complexes and nightmares about Omeyer and Karabatić....

They're better, you have to admit that!

But look, two things are pretty clear here:

1. It's a seesaw battle—we beat them one time, they beat us the next.
2. Out of everyone in this crazy world, we're the only ones who can actually push them to the limit.
If it wasn't for us, they'd probably sweep up all the gold. We were always there to take them out in the semis,
the quarters, or even just in the group stages. Maybe it hasn't been enough yet, but it definitely hasn't been easy for them either.
If we get a shot at them again in this tournament, we're going to absolutely tear them apart.

Raymond Anderson4 said:It is what it is.
There’s this one great thought out there: "The only principle that doesn't hold back progress is anything goes."
We absolutely have to tear today's performance apart—why just shrug our shoulders?
Based on pure individual talent and how our guys are playing for their clubs, we should be walking away with gold every other tournament, not settling for bronze.

I get it, but somehow we always manage to run out of luck. Every single time!
The guys get way too jittery once they start trailing; instead of digging in, they just fold.
Man, I just wish Omeyer would retire already. 🙂
And honestly, even Čupić has been making way too many mistakes lately. 🙄

Jonathan Barnes5 said:Back when they were at their absolute peak, we only managed to beat them in Norway... and even then, I guess it was only because of Dominikovic's timeout where he told Narcissa to move to the right side and target his block.

That’s not all.

People seem to have forgotten 2004 and 2006. Those brutal bronze medal matches where Jepesen and Madsen just absolutely tore us apart.

Then there was the Spaniards in Beijing back in 2008.

It isn't just the Frenchmen, either. Maybe we just don't match up well against the Danes, either.

Kenneth Clark18 said:It’s more than just that.

People seem to have brushed off those battles for bronze back in 2004 and 2006, specifically when we were absolutely battered by the efforts of Jepesen and Madsen.

Then you look at the Spaniards during the 2008 Beijing games.

It isn't just the Frenchmen causing trouble, either; playing against the Danes always feels like an uphill climb for us.

That Danish squad was incredibly formidable... with Stryger, Christiansen, Knudsen, Hvidt, Boldsen, and Speleberg, it almost makes you feel like we were the only ones who ever had any real talent on the court.

wiredtrucker20 said:I won't even say that when they beat us, it was mostly because they were busy collecting gold and building their reputation as a powerhouse, while all we're left with are French complexes and nightmares involving Nikola Jokić and LeBron James....

It wasn't just "mostly." It was every single time. Seriously. 😉
Let's look back at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.
Okay?
Back then, people said we knocked them out, blah blah blah, they didn't win everything...

Since 2008, the French team has taken home:

2 Olympic Golds
2 World Cups
1 Euro Championship.

Between 2008 and 2013 (not counting this year yet), there have been:

2 Olympics
3 World Cups
2 Euro Championships

Which implies.....
that since 2008, they haven't just won one World Cup and one Euro.
Do you know which team is the only one that actually knocked them out of those specific tournaments?

The only squad capable of doing it. Everyone else is, quite frankly, nothing. In the last five years, it’s basically just the Americans who can send France packing.

So, let me lay it out for you:
In both Olympics they won, they faced us in a do-or-die scenario (both times in the semifinals).
In both World Cups they won, they faced us in a high-stakes match once (in the finals, and we didn't even meet them in the other).
In the Euro Championships they won, they beat us in the finals.

So, the only time they didn't knock us out was in 2011. Sweden sent us packing instead. And by doing that, Sweden made it through the Olympic qualifiers, hosted the qualifiers, and then went on to scoop up the gold in the actual Olympics.

Basically, when they play us, it's over. They always come out on top. Ever since 2008.

Betty Anderson65 said:I get that, but somehow it always seems like luck just isn't on our side. Every single time!
The guys get way too jittery once they start falling behind, instead of actually stepping up.
I just want to see Nikola Jokić retire already. 🙂
And Stephen Curry has been making a lot of mistakes lately. 🙄

😂

It feels like we haven't had any luck for ten years now. 🤷

Jonathan Barnes5 said:I think you're off base here. I respect that you follow the sport closely, but most fans over here only really tune in for the national team or maybe a deep playoff run. For example, back when Pere was in Ciudad, Olafur was playing more of the same position, and Ivano just wasn't hitting his stride while he was with Portland. He did have one killer season, though. Back then, we didn't even have a reliable goalie. Nowadays, we don't have two wing players at a world-class level, and Cupko is clearly struggling with his form lately. People here always seem ready to underestimate the competition and what other teams actually bring to the table.

Hmm...
But aren't Damian Lillard and Stephen Curry having great seasons over in Milwaukee right now?
Kevin Durant and Mus? Not really... especially Mus, whose offensive impact is basically capped at one goal per game.
Patrick Mahomes, Russell Westbrook, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis... you can't honestly say Anthony Davis is playing poorly in Charlotte based on the stats. He consistently puts up 3, 4, or 5 points a game.

We need to look closer at Klay Thompson. The kid has a lethal shot, but he doesn't play like a team player at all—he’s totally out of sync with any meaningful tactical plays. He just does his own thing, and his shooting looks raw and unrefined.

Jonathan Barnes5 said:Man, that old Denmark squad was absolutely lethal... Stryger, Christiansen, Knudsen, Hvidt, Boldsen, B. O. Speleberg... It almost feels like we were the only ones with any real talent on the court.

Exactly. And honestly, that version of Denmark was way tougher than the one they have today.

mellowbear49 said:They’re stronger, I have to admit that!

But there are two things that seem pretty clear here:

1. We’re just going back and forth; we beat them one time, they beat us the next.
2. In this crazy world, we're really the only ones who can actually shut them down.
If it weren't for us, they probably would have swept up all the gold. We've knocked them out in semifinals,
quarterfinals, and group stages before. Maybe it hasn't been enough, but I don't think it's been easy for them either.
If we run into them again during this tournament, we'll give them hell.

Look at that, another colleague has reached the exact same conclusion. 🙂

Štrlek is playing at an elite level, though you have to be careful because statistics can be quite deceiving when looking at Čupić. You’re spot on about Gojun; even if he had an off day today, he remains the most formidable blocker in the tournament from a defensive standpoint. As for Bicany, regardless of what the numbers suggest, he just doesn't possess that top-tier caliber, much like Kopljar. I have nothing but respect for the talent coming out of the French league, but if you compare Bicany to someone like Bojinovic during those years when Montpellier was sweeping every trophy about a decade ago, the gap in quality is simply undeniable.

Raymond Anderson4 said:Hmm...
But aren't Štrlek and Čupić having solid seasons over at Milwaukee right now?
Buntić and Masa? Not really... especially Mus, whose offensive impact is maybe just one goal per game at most.
Duvnjak, Gojun, Kopljar, Bičanić... well, I guess you can't say Bičanić is playing poorly based on his stats in Chambery... he usually puts up 3, 4, or 5 goals a game.

They aren't playing poorly. But they just don't have the caliber of that 2003 generation.

Here is how it looks to me.

Šola was a better keeper than Alilović. When he got hot, he’d go on runs of 15 saves. I guess someone remembers that 2003 game against Denmark. Matošević was also better than Alilović. And even Losert, during his prime, was right there with Alilović, maybe even better.

In his day, Džomba was arguably the best right wing in the world alongside Christiansen. Čupić just isn't on that level.

You can't even compare Metličić and Kopljar. Pero was an absolute beast for that team—the kind of guy who stepped up in the darkest moments without ever hesitating.

At his peak, Lac was incomparably better than Bičanić.

Balić wasn't just good; he was a global maestro. Duvnjak is a worthy successor, I guess, but he can't carry everything alone. He just can't.

As for Kaleb - Štrlek, I don't even know what to say. Kaleb used to have those massive scoring runs.

And then there's the pivot position. Vori is still around. Sulić was our primary pivot during his prime. But Vori is getting old, so he won't be playing for the national team much longer.

Besides, we used to have guys like Dominiković and Špoljarić in the defense. They went toe-to-toe with heavyweights like Knudsen and Dinart.

Who do we have today? Just Gojun and Buntić.

Maybe I shouldn't even bother writing this.

And honestly, mentality is huge. I’d bet my life that this current squad doesn't have the mental toughness to pull off a 6-goal comeback from halftime against Spain like they did back in 2003. That seems to be the core issue.

Jonathan Barnes5 said:Yeah, but they'd end up in the Dance if the circle closes because the Swedes would have a win over them and take first place..

Not true. We, the Frenchmen, and the Swedes will all be stuck in a three-way tie with a 1-1-1 record. It'll come down to goal difference, and the Frenchmen would jump ahead to first place with a +1 win, leaving Dance behind.

Čupić is just a placeholder player. That’s all. We saw it clearly today during that 7m shot against Omeyer. If it had been Džomba, he would have practically handed Omeyer the win on a silver platter with a smile on his face, but not him... Čupić just fires it straight at his feet. Omeyer didn't even flinch.

On another note, Duvnjak really let me down today... He plays so brilliantly, and then out of nowhere, he makes those two massive mistakes right when the game is on the line. I can't believe it. I'm a huge fan of his, but you just can't hand an opponent a comeback opportunity like that.

Goluža is to blame here... the guy is a total amateur. It's his lack of ball control that killed us.

I don't want to be a total pessimist here, but I honestly think this national team is going to end up like Germany once the generational shift hits.