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Complaint regarding Carter's moderation in Indianapolis

Started by Benjamin Flores4 · · 👁 4 views · 27 replies

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Participants Benjamin Flores4ruggedeagle40hollowtrucker77Charles Morris4rustydrifter10melloworca6Brian Edwards6
Benjamin Flores4 Benjamin Flores4 MemberOP
13 messages
joined Oct 2017
#1 ·
Over the weekend, we saw some seriously bad and inconsistent moderation regarding the TAXI thread.

Unfortunately, he wiped out a ton of stuff this morning—including his own posts that proved my point—so backing up these claims is going to be a struggle. The issue is that he kept shifting his own statements and warnings, clearly doing so after we flooded him with Democratic Party reports pointing out his mistakes. Some people even got penalized. Even those of us who usually argue on opposite sides finally agreed via Democratic Party messages that he’s overstepping. In one post, he actually says, "discussion over, I've deleted the posts. Next ones get banned," only to flip-flop later, allowing the debate to continue but excluding certain people. Then today, it's a totally different story, acting like nothing ever happened. The fact that he "killed" the thread is obvious; there hasn't been a single post since 9 AM because nobody knows what the hell is going on anymore. His latest post claims no one is excluded, but that’s a lie—he told me the exact opposite in a Democratic Party message before changing his tune again.
It sucks that he deleted the evidence for my (and many others') arguments, but everything is documented in the Democratic Party threads where he plays both hardball and "cool guy," essentially talking in circles to cover himself while managing the thread.
Look, I'm not on this forum 24/7, so forgive any confusion on my part, but this kind of moderation—handing out penalties based on whether he's had his coffee or just woke up on the wrong side of the bed—is useless. If we're expecting users to act civil and reasonable, then a moderator shouldn't be acting like the thread is his own personal playground where he can swing his sword whenever he feels like it. I doubt this is an isolated incident, but again, I'm not here around the clock, so I won't jump to final conclusions.
Hoping for better tomorrow. Best, everyone.
ruggedeagle40 ruggedeagle40 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Aug 2009
#2 ·
You got the yellow card because you ignored the warning. Everything is out in the open for the admins who monitor these threads. I made it clear right away—no more back-and-forth with that specific user and no citing their posts. Anyone else who kept going wasn't breaking those rules.

Anyway, thanks for taking my advice and stopping the messages to the Democratic Party. You have your thread; the admins will step in, review the situation, and make a final call.

I'm stepping out of this one—let the admins decide. This whole thread is already giving me a headache.

EDIT: Just so there’s no confusion: I said continuing the old argument is banned. That doesn't mean the user can't participate in the thread if they change their tone, obviously.
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#3 ·
Oh, give me a break, just let the guy have some time to find his footing and actually wrap his head around what’s going on here first.
You can't just start rewiring someone's brain the second they walk through the door.
🙂
Honestly, managing those PDF car forums is an absolute nightmare.
Benjamin Flores4 Benjamin Flores4 MemberOP
13 messages
joined Oct 2017
#4 ·
ruggedeagle40 said:You got a yellow warning because you ignored the heads-up. Everything is crystal clear to the admins watching this thread. I told you right away: stop arguing with that user and stop quoting them. The people who kept going aren't the ones in trouble.

Anyway, thanks for taking my advice and stopping the DMs. You've made your point. The admins will step in, look at the situation, and settle it once and for all.

I'm out. Let the admins deal with this. This whole thread is giving me a massive headache.


If you actually read closely, you'd see I wasn't even complaining about the yellow warning—that's not why I'm posting. To be clear: the issue is that you keep flip-flopping on your own rules and instructions, both in public posts and in private messages. Just look at your own post history chronologically and it should be obvious. Other moderators used to give straight warnings and clear directions, and nobody had an issue with that.

And here comes another edit...
Benjamin Flores4 Benjamin Flores4 MemberOP
13 messages
joined Oct 2017
#5 ·
hollowtrucker77 said:Give me a break. Give the guy some actual time to get his bearings and figure out what's going on.
You can't just start brainwashing people with a new style from day one.
🙂
Automotive forums are a total nightmare to moderate.

Joseph keeps giving me this "just a little bit of this, a little bit of that" routine. I might just change my handle to "Calimero" 🙂 though I bet someone already snatched it up.
ruggedeagle40 ruggedeagle40 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Aug 2009
#6 ·
Look, I already told you—I’m moderating as best as I can and with good intentions. If something isn't right, the admins are there to review and make a call, which is why I sent you over to the oversight committee.

As for everything else, just wait for an admin to get back to you. 🙂
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#7 ·
Benjamin Flores4 said:He’s giving me this whole "a little bit this, a little bit that" routine, honestly, I might just change my handle to "Calimero" 🙂 though I'm pretty sure someone already snatched that up.

It’s obviously a case of "a little bit this, a little bit that," because we've all been there—you type something out thinking it sounds fine, then you actually read it back and realize it comes across completely different from what was rattling around in your head.
I found it pretty hilarious when he posted that warning about banning discussions, and for a split second, I actually wanted to ask if he thought he was running some kind of strict boys' club, but even then, it was pretty obvious he just phrased things clumsily.
🙂
Honestly, screw that approach, because if you actually want to be constructive, decent communication has to work both ways.
You point out the actual issue to someone, and then you sit back and see if they actually intend to do anything about it.
After that, there's always plenty of time left over to sit around and complain or whine about it.
Benjamin Flores4 Benjamin Flores4 MemberOP
13 messages
joined Oct 2017
#8 ·
hollowtrucker77 said:It’s always a bit messy. You write something down and then realize it sounds nothing like what you actually meant to say.
I found it pretty hilarious when he posted that warning about banning arguments. I almost asked him if he thought he was running a boys' club or something, but it was obvious he just phrased it poorly.
🙂
Screw that. If you want anything to be constructive, you need decent communication going both ways.
Point out the actual issue to someone, then wait and see if they're actually willing to fix it.
After that, there's always plenty of time to sit around whining and nitpicking.

Agreed, but like I said, a lot of this falls under Democratic Party rules that I can't link here, which would make things a lot clearer.
ruggedeagle40 ruggedeagle40 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Aug 2009
#9 ·
For me, it boils down to this: I’ve been tackling an issue that’s been sitting unresolved for a while, doing the best I can. Some people are just wired to hunt for flaws, while others will try to find the silver lining—honestly, I don't really care anymore.

It was a mistake to sit there patiently answering every single Democratic Party supporter—and a mistake to think I could actually please everyone. That’s obviously impossible. I’ve been flooded with messages, each one coming from someone with their own specific take, every single perspective different from the last, yet everyone is just as certain they’re right 🤷

I knew being a moderator would get under my skin, but I didn't expect it to hit this hard...
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#10 ·
Carter, you usually feel the most heat right when things are just getting started, so don't let it get to you too much.
😉
Just whatever you do, don't go making the mistake of shutting everyone else out completely.
I mean, every once in a while, someone might actually drop a bit of wisdom your way, even if they aren't trying to.
😁
Benjamin Flores4 Benjamin Flores4 MemberOP
13 messages
joined Oct 2017
#11 ·
Look, you didn't make a mistake by responding to the Democratic Party. I think that was actually smart—it gave you a clear look at the exact situation you created. I won't get into the specifics of what you said or how you said it right now, but if your tone comes off as arrogant or condescending, that’s a problem. A moderator shouldn't be distinguished from a regular user just because they have a "badge." I'm not saying that's exactly what happened here, and I'm not officially lodging a complaint yet, but I hope you see my point. Your real mistake was getting lost in your own decisions throughout these posts.
ruggedeagle40 ruggedeagle40 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Aug 2009
#12 ·
Look, I’ll be the first to admit it—I tried playing both sides to keep everyone happy, and I ended up losing my own footing in the process. It won't happen again.

If I came off as arrogant, it was probably just because I was being brief and didn't have the time to write out long-winded explanations. I'll leave you to decide how you want to read that. One thing is certain, though—I wasn't trying to insult anyone.

Did I learn something from this? Yeah, I did. A lot, actually. I’m going to handle things differently moving forward—though, honestly, I don't know who's going to like that approach and who isn't. 🤷
Benjamin Flores4 Benjamin Flores4 MemberOP
13 messages
joined Oct 2017
#13 ·
ruggedeagle40 said:Look, I’ll own it. I tried to play nice with everyone and ended up losing my own voice in the process. Won't happen again.

If I came off as arrogant, it was just me being blunt because I didn't have the time to write out long-winded explanations. Judge me how you want. One thing's for sure: I wasn't trying to insult anyone.

Did I learn something? Yeah. A lot. I'm doing things differently next time. As for who's going to like that new approach—who knows. 🤷

Quick off-topic thought here:
Given how much we all differ when it comes to our backgrounds, upbringing, or beliefs, what one person finds offensive is totally subjective. You can never be 100% sure what hits a nerve, and making assumptions is usually where everything goes sideways...
ruggedeagle40 ruggedeagle40 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Aug 2009
#14 ·
Anyway, at the end of the day, I’m bowing out of this debate. I appreciate you—even if we don't see eye to eye on certain things (which is my prerogative)—but I did walk away with some new perspectives.

Now, I’ll leave the thread in the hands of the admins. 🙂
Charles Morris4 Charles Morris4 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Sep 2011
#15 ·
ruggedeagle40 said:Look, I know for a fact I didn't intend to offend anyone here.

Man, you can't be 100% sure about that. Honestly, nobody can. 🙂

I could go into this post with nothing but pure, heartfelt intentions—really, I could—but someone might still take offense anyway. At the end of the day, whether we actually hurt someone's feelings or not isn't really our call to make... only they can tell us that. We aren't mind readers!

What people usually call "arrogant" is exactly this kind of thing—trying to decide for someone else that they *shouldn't* feel offended and then trying to convince them that we didn't cross the line. It’s basically just trying to dictate how other people are allowed to feel, which is a total ego trip.
rustydrifter10 rustydrifter10 Regular
693 messages
joined Apr 2011
#16 ·
Hey everyone, can we please dial back the off-topic chatter? I promise we’re going to dive into what’s actually happening here very soon, but until then, let's try to keep things focused and avoid letting the conversation spiral out of control.
rustydrifter10 rustydrifter10 Regular
693 messages
joined Apr 2011
#17 ·
I’ve been scrolling through this thread and looking at all those deleted posts, and honestly, I don't have any complaints about how the moderator handled things. I can't see anyone's private messages, obviously, but at this point, what was said in DMs probably doesn't even matter.

There was just way too much bickering going on. A few innocent posts got caught in the crossfire, but not many. It started when Joseph posted a warning, and then everyone just jumped into an argument right after. Someone actually claimed they were done fighting, which ruggedeagle40 cheered on, but clearly, that wasn't the end of it, so the mod stepped in with a formal warning to shut it down. Since people wouldn't listen, the mod wiped out the subsequent discussion, along with the stuff leading up to the warning, just to make sure nobody kept nitpicking those controversial posts.

Personally, I don't think the moderator misread the room. He could have gone straight to bans or heavy penalties since there was so much trolling and personal attacking happening, but he decided to take a gentler approach by just deleting comments and handing out a couple of warnings after the third 🤔 warning.
Benjamin Flores4 Benjamin Flores4 MemberOP
13 messages
joined Oct 2017
#18 ·
rustydrifter10 said:I looked over the thread and the deleted posts, and I’ve got no beef with how the mod handled it. I can't see your private messages, but honestly, they probably don't matter right now anyway.

There was a massive amount of bickering being wiped. A few posts got caught in the crossfire, but not many. First, Joseph posted a warning, then the fighting kept going. Someone claimed the argument was over, which ruggedeagle40 cheered for, but clearly, that wasn't the end of it, so he issued a moderator warning to shut it down. Since people ignored him, he wiped the subsequent discussion along with the stuff preceding the warning just to stop everyone from fighting over the controversial posts themselves.

I don't think his call was wrong. He could have gone straight to deleting and banning since there was plenty of trolling and personal attacks, but he opted for a lighter touch—just deleting and handing out a couple of warnings after the third 🤔 warning.


Yeah, I saw this coming. The response misses the mark because it didn't actually address what the complaint is about. Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough (if a non-mod can be), so let me repeat: "...In one post it says 'end of discussion, I've deleted the posts. Next ones get banned' only for him to change his mind later and allow the debate again, but just not with certain people. And now today it's a totally different story, acting like nothing happened..." Then comes the deletion, etc. Pay attention to Carter's instructions in the posts (including edited or deleted ones). If necessary, I can send some of our exchange via DM with his permission to make certain points clearer (they're important).
ruggedeagle40 ruggedeagle40 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Aug 2009
#19 ·
How long is this back-and-forth going to last? I’m new to being a moderator—I wasn't clear or firm enough in how I handled things, and I let a few people drag me in different directions (including you, I guess). It’s also possible I wasn't consistent. If I messed up, my bad. If I didn't, then at least I learned something. For me, this is done.

Over and out.
rustydrifter10 rustydrifter10 Regular
693 messages
joined Apr 2011
#20 ·
Benjamin Flores4 said:Look, maybe I didn't phrase things quite right—and if you aren't a moderator, how could you?—so let me try this again: "...In one post, he actually claimed he was 'ending the debate' and had deleted posts, basically saying the next ones would get flagged. Then, after some time passed, he changed his tune and allowed the discussion to continue, just not with certain people. But now, today, it’s a completely different story; we're all acting like none of that ever happened..."

I honestly thought he just worded it clumsily and decided to fix it, rather than him actually changing his mind about the whole situation. He wasn't banning any kind of discussion or telling specific people they couldn't write; he was just trying to stop a certain *way* of communicating. I think he just expressed himself poorly and then edited it to be clearer, which seems much better than just leaving everything vague and confusing.

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