F1 Canada 2012: Montreal GP Recap & Discussion

steelmaker83 said:Any decent team would’ve realized something was up with those tires immediately. Honestly, I can't wrap my head around how every single team just rolls over and accepts that kind of tire roulette without a fight. Not one outfit even breathed a word of protest about the rubber. Nothing.

Schumacher stormed through, then he burned out just as fast...

So, either it’s nothing at all, or it’s gone horribly wrong.

And who's actually going to complain about it? Seriously.
Stocks, IPOs, and team bosses sitting on supervisory boards at places like MCM, Red Bull Racing, and Ferrari... man, they’re all walking away with massive piles of cash. And honestly, who knows what kind of crazy promises the new Concorde agreement is actually throwing their way?
New fat contracts are being signed between Sky/BBC and Bernie. Just heads up—the money in the UK is massive. We’re looking at a £15 million per season bump compared to 2011.
And honestly, it’s just the same old rigged deal playing out on Sky/RAI too.
Viewership is definitely climbing, and the cash is flowing. A season looking better than ever right before we sell off shares? Yeah, absolutely perfect.😁

Lotus, Williams, and Sauber are absolutely killing it right now.
End of the 2011 season:
Renault 73, 5th place.
7 | Sauber-Ferrari | 44
Williams-Cosworth ended up with 5.
So far in the 2012 season.😳
3rd place, Lotus-Renault with 108 points.
6 Sauber-Ferrari 58
7 Williams-Renault 44
Honestly, they’re looking at a total win-win here. Nobody comes out of this happier than them.
They’re already looking better than last year, and we aren't even halfway through the season.😳

The only ones who have any right to complain are the Mercedes guys over their prize money and that whole mess about them just showing up out of nowhere yesterday.
Honestly, they don't even have anything to complain about. They just snagged their first win, and now Nico Rosberg is looking like a serious title contender—which, if you ask me, is exactly how this is going to end up.

If the boss says jump, we all start looking for a place to land.
If anyone actually tries to broadcast Force India, they’re gonna get absolutely roasted on air.😬

Caterham, Marussia, HRT—any of those teams could try to make a comeback, but let’s be real: nobody would take them seriously. Bernie could buy them out or kick them to the curb whenever he felt like it. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up being gifted their first points of the season just for showing up.

neonfox65 said:They really only needed one of those three things—KERS, tires, or DRS. It’s become way too easy to overtake lately.

Personally, I’d say they should have just stuck with last year's tires and ditched the DRS. Almost everyone has KERS by now, so it doesn't give anyone an edge—plus, it helps the environment.

But whatever, this season has been weird as hell, and honestly? I doubt anyone actually knows how Maldonado manages to scrape together some random points and then suddenly pull off a win.
For Pérez and Lotus, it isn't surprising—they've got the pace—but their tire management is just totally bizarre.
I actually preferred the days when we had Michelin and Bridgestone; back then, using Bridgestones felt like a straight-up handicap.
I really thought Alonso was going to take it after Hamilton pitted, especially since he went in for fresh rubber even later than Hamilton and Vettel.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/0...so-and-vettel/

There’s a tire strategy chart at the end of the article.

One thing about this whole setup really gets under my skin. This restriction on how many sets of tires you can actually use? It’s a complete joke.
The top-tier teams are basically forced to burn through their faster compounds during the Second Qualifying Session just because the backmarkers start using them early. Then, if you actually want a shot at something decent in the Third Qualifying Session, you have to burn through your fresh rubber again. So what’s left?
By the time the race actually starts, there aren't any good tires left—just a bunch of worn-out scraps. It’s ridiculous. Honestly, it's pathetic.
It makes it obvious that someone like Sergio Perez, who misses out on the Third Qualifying Session, ends up with the advantage of running the whole race on fresh rubber.
Racing has been reduced—sadly—to nothing more than tire management.

And then there's the DRS—this is just too good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsc_62uNcKI#t=480

Letterman is out of his mind 😂 That DRS thoughooooo 🙏🤣

Honestly, this year's race at Indianapolis Motor Speedway was a bit of an outlier.

There was plenty of action, and things got tense fighting for those top spots.
But it felt thin—not enough actual overtaking. I get the feeling we were all collectively waiting for something more exciting to actually happen.

Regarding DRS, it’s pretty useless if the cars are running standard tires... you mostly see it working on the long straights, but there are tracks where DRS does absolutely nothing until the guy in front completely shreds his rubber. So yeah, the whole thing is a joke. Honestly, the only thing that really bugs me is how unpredictable the tire situation is... it's so chaotic that even the teams don't have a clue what they're going to get or how they'll perform. The softs last about as long as you'd expect from softs, yet somehow the softs hold up better than the supersofts... give me a break 🤣

I'd much rather watch a massive wreck or an SC than deal with these nonsense races 😬

Roger Wright94 said:http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/0...so-and-vettel/

There's a tire change table at the end of the article.

If this is actually right, one massive mystery just got solved.😳
Now I'm just wondering why 😕

Kobayashi SN SSN(24) SN(25)
So Kamui changed tires twice?😕
That explains why Perez is so far ahead of him. If he was actually pitting lap after lap, then Kamui basically threw the win away. He should've been the winner.🙂

But here comes the real madness.😲
Tyre Choices, Canadian GP

SS= Supersoft ; S= Soft : n= New; U= Used, DT= Drive through penalty; (17) = Pit Stop lap

Grosjean SSU SU(21) - Seriously, what kind of kid is running that Lotus spaceship? And why the hell were they using used softs (who knows how many miles on them)????
Perez SN SSN(41) - Makes more sense given the competition.
Vettel SSU SN(16) SSU(63) - Pretty obvious.
Alonso SSU SU(19) - Who was the rookie working on that Ferrari? Why used softs? Did they seriously not have any new rubber? 😵
Webber SSU SN(17) SN(52) - Hmm, Webber had a solid strategy and still didn't make moves.
Raikkonen SN SSU(40) - Again, why the used tires? And how on earth did Kimi manage 40 laps on SS during that first stint?😲

There's just no way... Allen probably messed up, so there's no chance Grosjean could have pulled off that kind of pace in the final laps on used tires.
If there had been even one or two more laps left, he would've caught Lewis.

Raymond Anderson4 said:No way... Allen probably messed up, so there's zero chance Grosjean actually had that kind of pace in those final laps on old tires.
If there were even one or two more laps left, he would have caught Lewis.

Yeah right, he wouldn't have stood a chance at catching Lewis, let alone passing him.
Hamilton was basically nursing his engine at the end and driving way slower than he actually could.
He didn't need to push anymore, so he just didn't.

I don't get how Grosjean was driving like that on worn tires either, and I definitely don't get why they'd put those used tires on Alonso and Grosjean—it makes zero sense. 🤷
Unless both of them were originally planning a two-stop strategy and then changed their minds last minute.
But even then, the big question is how old those tires actually were.

That stat about Kobayashi is pretty shocking, though—pitting on laps 24 and 25.

And that stuff about Kimi doing a 40-lap first stint on the reds?😲
Good grief, if that's true, then Jacques Villeneuve might actually be onto something with that Lotus. Alonso, Vettel, and Hamilton would probably dominate the field, even in a crazy season like this one. 😲

Keep in mind that when they list something under "used," it includes tires that have only completed a single installation lap. Ferrari always puts Alonso on those types of tires, presumably just to scrub off that initial surface layer, likely to help with warming them up.

stormybadger8 said:There is simply no way Hamilton could catch up, let alone overtake him.
Hamilton was basically nursing the engine at this point and driving significantly slower than he actually had the capacity to go.
He had zero incentive to push himself, so he just didn't.

And I honestly cannot wrap my head around how Grosjean was able to drive like that on used tires; even less sense does it make to them putting those old tires on Alonso and Grosjean in the first place, because frankly, there is no logic to it whatsoever.🤷
Unless, of course, both of them weren't primarily planning for a two-stop strategy and they just abandoned that idea halfway through.
But then the real question becomes just how worn out those tires actually were.

That bit about Kobayashi is also incredibly surprising, seeing as he went into the pits on laps 24 and 25.

And then there is that business with Kimi doing a 40-lap first stint on the red tires.😲
Good grief, if that is actually true, then Jacques Villeneuve might actually be onto something—with that Lotus, Alonso, Vettel, and Hamilton would likely be dominating the field, even in a season as chaotic as this one. 😲

I actually wanted to get your take on this statement... I transcribed a post from a forum member... here is the quote along with his commentary... clearly a massive Kimi fanboy.

Jacques Villeneuve said the lotus is probably the best car on the grid and the drivers are the weak link. He said Grosjean was miles off Alonso at Renault in 2009 and this shows how poorly Raikkonen is performing this year. Such a simplistic comparison to make really. Grosjean doesn't have a volatile and over bearing team boss looking over his shoulder this time, the car probably suits his driving style. And from year to year different cars suit different drivers and it can distort the true picture of how good a driver really is.

stormybadger8 said:And honestly, who’s actually going to complain?
Between stock options, going public, and team bosses sitting on supervisory boards (MCM, Red Bull Racing, Ferrari), they’ve all seen plenty of cash. Plus, who knows what promises the new Concorde is throwing their way.
New fat contracts are being signed via the Sky/BBC/Bernie connection; just look at the massive money in the UK, where there's a £15 million per season bump compared to 2011.
Now, the exact same deal is already being cooked up through the Sky/RAI route.
Viewership is likely still climbing, the money is flowing, and the season looks better than ever right before the stock sale—perfect timing, isn't it?😁

Lotus, Williams, and Sauber are killing it:
At the end of 2011:
5 Renault 73
7 Sauber-Ferrari 44
9 Williams-Cosworth 5
2012 Season so far:😳
3 Lotus-Renault 108
6 Sauber-Ferrari 58
7 Williams-Renault 44
Realistically, this is a win-win for them, and nobody is happier.
They’re already performing better than last year, and we aren't even halfway through the season.😳

The only ones with any reason to be annoyed are Mercedes, because of the prize money/bonuses and the sudden noise about how they just showed up out of nowhere.
But realistically, they don't have much to whine about either; they've already grabbed a win, and Rosberg is a title contender who I can see actually taking it in the end.

STR—if the boss says there's a piece of the pie, they'll get it.
Force India—they won't even show up on the broadcast if anyone actually bites.😬

Caterham, Marussia, HRT, or whatever else is out there might try to make a move, but nobody is taking them seriously. Bernie could easily buy them out or just kick them to the curb, and I wouldn't be surprised if he just tosses them a couple of points this season to keep them quiet.

Then again, just imagine the absolute fiasco if it turned out the drivers were working with the old guard to orchestrate all of this...

It would be a total meltdown. A complete collapse of everything built over the years. I highly doubt anyone would take that kind of risk.

Most likely, Bernie just sat in the Pirelli chair and gave them very clear instructions on what kind of tires he expects. Pirelli followed orders—maybe a little too well.

But I’m telling you, I’ll give them five more races to figure out how these tires behave. If things keep happening like this after that, then I'll start asking real questions.

hollowhawk412 said:I actually wanted to get your take on this statement... I transcribed a post from another forum... here is the quote and the user's comment... clearly a Kimi fan.

Jacques Villeneuve said the lotus is probably the best car on the grid and the drivers are the weak link. He said Grosjean was miles off Alonso at Renault in 2009 and this shows how poorly Raikkonen is performing this year. Such a simplistic comparison to make really. Grosjean doesn't have a volatile and over bearing team boss looking over his shoulder this time, the car probably suits his driving style. And from year to year different cars suit different drivers and it can distort the true picture of how good a driver really is.

Look, the reality is they use the same tires in GP2 as they do in F1, so Grosjean definitely has plenty of experience with Pirelli.
I didn't watch much last year, so I'm not 100% sure if they had mandatory replacements or if they had to use both components, and if the tires were identical to F1, but I'm assuming they were.
So it’s no shock that Grosjean looks better than before; he's older and more experienced now.
But personally, if I recall correctly, he used to be one of the worst drivers on the grid.
As far as I'm concerned, Kimi underperformed—and seriously underperformed—during this comeback. Not quite like Schumacher in his later years, but he isn't exactly doing great either.

That Lotus is clearly a solid car.
You can tell it's fast, and strangely enough, it seems pretty gentle on the tires.
Or maybe the trick is just that these guys figured them out first.🤷

It looks like Osim's Lotus is being just as sensitive with those tires as the Sauber is, but honestly, maybe that’s just because of how the weather turned out during this race, and we'll see if things change at the next ones?

Roger Wright94 said:http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/0...so-and-vettel/

There's a tire change chart at the end of the article.

One thing here is really getting under my skin. This restriction on the number of available tire sets is an absolute mess.
The top-tier teams are practically forced to burn through their faster tires during Q2 because those smaller, slower outfits start using them up early. Then, if you actually want a shot at a podium in Q3, you have to dip back into your unused fast rubber again. So, what’s left?
By the time the race rolls around, you aren't left with any decent, fresh rubber—just a pile of used carcasses. It's ridiculous, honestly. Tragic, even.
It makes it obvious that someone like Perez, who misses out on Q3, ends up benefiting by driving the whole race on fresh sets.
Racing has become all about tire management now, which is just a shame.

The limit on the number of available sets has been around for ages, at least ten years or more. I was actually discussing this with Phil recently, and we took a look back at the old rulebooks. Can you believe it? There were actually years where they had even fewer tires available...

Sure, they lasted longer back then, but still...

The issue is that the qualifying gaps between teams are way too tight. It basically forces everyone who makes it into the Third Quarter to burn through their entire allotment of Option tires.

It’s easy to play armchair strategist after the race is over, but if you ask me, one of Red Bull Racing's biggest blunders was sending Sebastian Vettel out for that second run in the Third Quarter.
If they hadn't done that and had just saved that fresh, unused set of SS tires for him, they would've had a massive advantage over the rest of the field.

stormybadger8 said:The issue is how razor-thin the margins are between teams during qualifying. It means almost everyone making it into the Third Quarter ends up burning through their entire set of option tires.

It’s easy to play general after the dust settles, but if we're looking at big blunders, one of Red Bull Racing's biggest mistakes was sending Sebastian Vettel back out for a second run in the Third Quarter.
If they hadn't done that and had just saved that fresh, unused set of SS tires for him, they would have had a massive advantage over the rest of the field.

True, but they were gunning for pole, and they weren't certain they could grab it—not if he had to go out for a second time.

Ever since China, every single win has come from pole position...

steelmaker83 said:Yeah, but they were gunning for pole, and they weren't even sure they'd grab it (not to mention if he hadn't gone out for that second run)

Ever since the race in China, every single win has come from pole position.......

Oh, absolutely. Vettel was the fastest on that first flying lap—the only one hitting the 1:13.9xx mark. He would've stayed on top because nobody else even touched sub-1:14 ☕
The gap would’ve been way smaller, sure, but he still walks away with pole.

stormybadger8 said:(the only one with a 1:13.9xx, and he would've stayed fastest since nobody else was anywhere under 1:14 ☕
The gap would just be much smaller, but he’d still take pole.

I mean, you always start on the tires you used for your best lap anyway. The wear would be the same, and a fresh set of SS wouldn't have saved him because his strategy was already a mess... 😛

crimsonstag84 said:It doesn't matter. You're starting on the same tires you used to set your best lap anyway, so they’d be just as worn out. A fresh set of SS wouldn't have saved him since his strategy was already a total mess... 😛

If things were different, the strategy definitely would've been different.
If he actually had a fresh set of SS, he would've pulled into the pits either right before Lewis Hamilton or at the exact same time.

Considering those used SS tires of his basically died after 16 laps—like, literally gave up on him—it's no wonder they didn't dare pit with only 19 laps left.😉