Data privacy in electronic health records (EHR)

melloworca6 said:Clearly on Mars. 😲

Well, unfortunately—I'd say—yes.😢

There are certain professions where leaking someone else's data is strictly forbidden, and medicine is definitely one of them. Just like a banker might lose their job for leaking account details, a doctor can lose theirs too (yeah, believe it or not, that actually happens 😲) if they leak medical records. But obviously, for that to happen, you have to actually report the person.

Sadly, that isn't nearly enough. You have to prove it, which is a whole different ballgame. In those situations, the medical lobby digs its heels in, and the whole thing usually just falls apart.

And what’s happening in hospitals during surgeries, births, etc., has nothing to do with this topic right now. And yes, some people do lose their licenses because of their screw-ups, but that only happens when they get sued.

Seriously, who in America has ever lost their license for breaching professional confidentiality? Can you give me a single example?😕

Most patients or their families don't sue doctors at all, or they just settle with the hospital, take the payout, and the doctor keeps working as usual.

Have you seriously never heard about the cases that blew up in the media—where there were fatalities—and nobody was held accountable? Or the settlements collected by numerous mothers whose children suffered severe injuries during childbirth? Give me an example of that.

I'm also wondering, what's your advice to these women who had abortions? Should they not tell their OBGYN under any circumstances just so it doesn't end up in their medical file? 😕

My advice is that they should do whatever they feel is right. I was simply warning them that they aren't obligated to share that kind of information with doctors they don't trust.

Of course you aren't obligated to hand over information to a doctor. By that same logic, you don't have to tell them if you're allergic to penicillin either—and if they prescribe it and you end up in the ER, that’s on you.

What kind of examples are you looking for? 😕 Like if Pero Perić reported some specific physician and that doctor ended up getting a formal reprimand just shy of being fired? 😕 Doxing people or sharing private info on a forum is against the rules.

melloworca6 said:Has anyone actually bothered to report this kind of stuff to the State Board? 😕 We all know where these leaks come from—you really think they'd let it slide without a penalty?

The Board pulls licenses left and right.🙄 You’re clearly living in some sort of fantasy land.

melloworca6 said:Well, obviously you aren't obligated to share info with your doctor. By that logic, you don't have to mention a penicillin allergy either—so if they prescribe it and things go south, that's on you.

It really depends on what kind of information we're talking about. A deliberate abortion in a healthy woman and a penicillin allergy are... let's just say, not exactly the same thing.

What kind of examples are you even looking for? 😕 Like, if Pero Perić reported some specific doctor and they ended up getting a slap on the wrist or a final warning before being fired? 😕 Posting private details about people on a forum is against the rules.

Media examples—which don't exist, because nothing happened. If a doctor actually lost their license over something like this, the news would have picked it up by now, but—spoiler alert—it didn't happen.

Look, being allergic to penicillin and having an abortion are two completely different things, but if you don't mention stuff like that to your doctor when it matters, you could seriously end up putting your life at risk.

Do you honestly think doctors ask about those kinds of things and log them in your chart just because they're curious?

melloworca6 said:Look, I get it—a penicillin allergy and an abortion aren't exactly the same thing—but if you don't mention stuff like that to your doctor when it actually matters, you're basically playing Russian roulette with your life.

That’s just not true when we're talking about a legal medical abortion for healthy women. Usually, there's zero threat to her life—I mean, how exactly is a woman's life "in danger" if the procedure went off without a single complication?🤷 A penicillin allergy is an entirely different beast—one that can actually be life-threatening. Let's not conflate the two.

You really think doctors ask about this stuff just because they're curious? — As if they have nothing better to do than collect data for fun.

Some people actually bother to do the research—while others just sit around moralizing.🙄

Look, I’ll just speak from my own experience here—and I’m not trying to make this strictly about women's health, but rather about health in general. In any major hospital system, everyone seems to know exactly what’s going on with you. Now, whether every single person with computer access can see your private data is a question I can't answer, but my gut tells me the answer is yes. For instance, during my last abdominal ultrasound, the technician was kind enough to ask me about everything else I’d undergone at that hospital: "Ah, I see, you were in the ER back in July... hmm, okay, those results look fine... blood pressure was high, though..." So, if the people in the ER know, and the radiology tech knows, and even my neighbor who works over in gastroenterology knows, then it stands to reason that information travels. By that logic, if I were to go in for a legal medical abortion, they’d likely have that on file too. Of course, I assume hospitals aren't all networked together in one giant web, and in principle, that’s actually a good thing, but this is just one example of why I think it might not be. And that’s not even touching on abortion, obviously. What about seeing a psychiatrist? Does every staff member really need to be privy to that? When I’m out there job hunting, I find myself wondering if an employer might ever say to a woman, "Hey, take a peek at her file—does she have kids? Any issues?" and then they see that Lisa Nelson70 was seeing a mental health specialist—hypothetically speaking. Even though they are legally forbidden from doing that, we all know how easily those boundaries can be crossed.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but...

placidorca16 said:That isn't true for healthy women when we're talking about legal medical abortion. Usually, it doesn't pose any threat to life at all. How is a woman's "life at risk" if the abortion went through without any complications?🤷 A penicillin allergy is a completely different story, and that can actually be life-threatening. Those are two totally different things.

No, it's just that some people do actual research, while others just moralize.🙄

When you make claims that categorical, answer one thing for me. Are you a doctor by profession?

Lisa Nelson70 said:Look, I’ll tell you based on my own experience—this isn't strictly about women's health, but it's about health in general. At the same hospital, everyone knows what's going on with you. Now, whether everyone with computer access can see your data, I don't know, but I'd bet yes. For instance, the last time I was in for an abdominal ultrasound, the tech asked me about everything else I'd had done at that hospital: "Ah, I see, you were in the ER back in July... hmm, results look okay... blood pressure was high..." So, if they know at the ER, if the radiologist knows, and if my neighbor working in gastro knows, I assume it's all connected. If I came in for an abortion, they'd probably know that too, by that logic. Granted, hospitals aren't networked together, I assume—and I hope not—and in principle, that's a good thing, but it's at least one reason why I think it isn't. Besides abortions, obviously. And what about psychiatry? Does everyone need to know that? When I'm looking for a job, do I have to worry if an employer will say to a woman: "Let's check her file, does she have kids, does she have problems..." and then sees that Lisa Nelson70 saw a psychiatrist—hypothetically. Setting aside the fact that they aren't allowed to do that, it's hard to believe it doesn't happen.
Someone feel free to correct me, but...

Look, of course most of the staff on a unit will know your situation. You aren't being treated by just one shift; you're being treated by several. Most major hospitals are also teaching clinical centers, so besides the nurses and doctors handling your case, there are probably students who know, too.

We were mostly discussing outpatient doctors here (specialists, GPs, OB-GYNs). According to some people in this thread, I shouldn't even tell my OB-GYN if I've had an abortion or what kind of baby I gave birth to, because why should he care? He'll just go blabber about it over coffee with someone else anyway, and naturally, he'll do it without any consequences. 🙄

melloworca6 said:When you make claims that bold, just answer one thing—are you actually a doctor?

No, but you clearly are.😁 And what’s that supposed to prove?🤷 Just because I don't have an MD doesn't mean I don't follow certain topics closely because of my actual job.

According to some people here, I shouldn't even tell my husband if I had a legal medical abortion or what kind of child I gave birth to, since why should he care.

Nobody ever said that. Stop twisting things and making stuff up.

placidorca16 said:No, but you definitely are.😁 And what does that actually prove?🤷 Just because I’m not a doctor doesn't mean I don't stay informed on certain topics because of my own line of work.

Nobody said that. Stop twisting my words and making things up.

Look, I have zero connection to the medical field, but that's exactly why I wouldn't be so bold as to make categorical claims—unlike you, claiming that a legal medical abortion leaves no consequences for healthy women, or suggesting people can just hide that info from their doctors if they feel like it.

And no, unless you went to med school, you don't "know" things just because you read some random article online. You don't know the full spectrum of diseases out there or why specific data points matter in those cases, so stop acting like an expert.

Also, quit attacking everyone and dissecting every single post just because someone wrote something you don't like or disagree with.

melloworca6 said:No, I don't have anything to do with the medical profession—but that’s exactly why I’m not going to make categorical claims like you do, specifically your claim that abortion leaves no consequences for healthy women and that it's a detail you don't even need to mention to a doctor if you don't want to.

Oh, really? And here I was thinking you were some kind of highly "informed" doctor.😁 Since you're just stating the exact opposite of established facts, what you're doing isn't "expertise"—it's just being wrong. So, what exactly makes you more competent to make this claim?😕

What I’m saying about abortion isn't just something I made up; it’s professional medical opinion that you can find in plenty of sources. For instance,

On the Mayo Clinic IVF website, there’s an article by Prof. Dr. Simunic titled "Contraception and Intentional Abortion"—go ahead, try to find where it says a legal medical abortion endangers a woman's life. Now, it’s a completely different story when we talk about illegal, back-alley abortions performed by untrained people in unsafe conditions. That’s a whole other issue, especially in developing nations where it truly is life-threatening. But we weren't talking about illegal abortions in those countries, nor did I ever bring them up.

The bottom line is: there are no fatalities from legal, professional medical abortions here in the States. You can verify that through the Bureau of Labor Statistics—just Google it. If you actually find data showing that a legal medical abortion endangered or killed a woman in America, let me know and I’ll personally apologize. Statistically, hospital childbirth mortality is higher than mortality from legal medical abortions in hospitals.

So, what you’re doing isn't a professional analysis—it's just making a blunt, contrary claim without any actual evidence behind it. What exactly gives you the authority to say that?😕

And no, if you didn't go to medical school, you can't claim to know things just because you read an article somewhere. You don't know all the diseases out there or which specific conditions make this data vital, so stop acting like an expert.

Why shouldn't I be able to "know things" if I didn't study medicine? 😕 Is it against the law to follow medical literature outside of the medical field?🤷 If you honestly believe it's impossible for someone in another profession to study or research abortion beyond medical journals, then you are seriously mistaken.

And stop attacking and dissecting the posts of everyone who writes something you don't like or disagree with.

I’d love for you to tell me specifically who I have done that to.So "attacking" everyone—plural—just because I don't know about this stuff?

I thought this forum was actually meant for exchanging views and info. I shared my opinion and backed it up. If you think doctors are the only ones with any insight into abortion, that’s your call and your problem—but it's definitely not reality.

placidorca16, do you honestly think I'm some kind of idiot? 😕 This isn't the first time you've gone out of your way to corner someone like this, and it’s certainly not the first topic you've decided to drag people through the mud on.

You’re lucky I’m in a good mood and actually feel like dealing with you right now. If you were dealing with any other moderator, you would have already picked up a few strikes.

Cut the crap and stop messing around. This is your last warning. And don't you dare try to tell me you weren't messing with me. 🙄)

placidorca16 said:Why exactly am I supposed to be barred from knowing certain things just because I didn't go to medical school? 😕 Is it actually forbidden to follow medical literature if you aren't a doctor?🤷 If you honestly think studying or researching abortion is strictly limited to the medical field, then you’re seriously mistaken.

🤦 Go back and read what you wrote again.

Look, first off, I never said you weren't capable of knowing certain things just because you didn't go to med school. What I am saying is that you simply CANNOT know more than a doctor. You don't know the full scope of every disease out there—no, you don't. People spend six damn years in university studying that stuff, plus a mountain of years in clinical practice. You can't bypass that.

Do you seriously think doctors ask if you’ve ever had an abortion just because they feel like messing around? There isn't a single reason—aside from research—why that question gets asked.

placidorca16 said:I’d like you to be specific. Give me the details. Who? It's me. Everything. "Attacked," plural... because apparently, I'm just supposed to know how that works?

So, you suddenly have amnesia? Go back and read your very first post on this thread.

placidorca16 said:Well, unfortunately, I’d have to say yes.😢

Sadly, that isn't nearly enough. That actually needs to be proven, which is a whole different ballgame. In situations like this, the medical lobby usually digs its heels in, and things typically just fall through the cracks.

I mean, honestly, who in America has actually lost their medical license for breaching professional confidentiality? Can you point to a single specific case?😕

Have you truly never heard of those cases that dragged all over the news—where fatalities occurred and yet nobody was held accountable? Or what about the settlements won by numerous mothers whose children suffered severe injuries during childbirth? Give me some examples of that.

My advice is simply to act according to their own conscience. I only wanted to warn them that they are under no obligation to share that kind of information with doctors they don't trust.

If there is a breach of medical privacy, a formal complaint should be filed with the State Medical Board. From there, an ethics committee investigates the matter and decides on sanctions.

Rather than just venting bitterness on a forum. 🙂

A patient isn't an expert, so they aren't qualified to judge what belongs in a medical history and what doesn't. By withholding data, they can seriously jeopardize their own care, waste precious time needed for proper treatment, or even lead a doctor down the wrong path. And that would be entirely their own fault.

If they don't trust their doctor, they should just find a new one.

Regarding abortion, I won’t go into exhaustive detail because I realize there are many different perspectives beyond just the clinical side—and I don't want to lecture anyone on things you likely already know. However, if I were Rh-negative and my partner was Rh-positive, I wouldn't dare go through a pregnancy after an abortion without making sure my doctor was fully informed. Whether we are talking about an abortion that occurred naturally or via D&C, it matters. 🙂

Then again, spontaneous miscarriages can sometimes point toward fetal malformations or perhaps issues with the mother's immune system... though, honestly, it feels to me like the other complications tend to be more significant. And those can leave lasting consequences.

There is also the matter of risk; every single procedure carries its own set of dangers. The human body isn't a math equation where two plus two always equals four. Things can turn fatal or lead to severe complications, even when dealing with procedures that are considered routine or completely harmless, and that's assuming no medical error occurs. You should never take anything in medicine for granted. Even something as simple as a "standard" antibiotic could, through a strange chain of events, trigger something like autoimmune hemolytic anemia if the stars align that way.

Thank God someone finally showed up who actually understands what I’ve been trying to say here this whole time. 🙂

melloworca6 said:....

Since it's pretty clear we aren't playing on a level playing field here—and since you've moved straight to power trips and threats—I think we're done.

Lisa Moore61 said:As for those who have had abortions—I won't go into full detail since I realize people look at this from perspectives beyond just the medical side, and I don't want to lecture anyone on things we already know—but let's just say if I were Rh-negative and my partner was Rh-positive, I wouldn't dream of getting pregnant again after an abortion without flagging it to my doctor first. Whether it’s a miscarriage or a surgical procedure, it matters 🙂

I wouldn't either, if that were the case. But it’s not some universal rule for everyone—if you aren't Rh-negative, you don't have to worry about it.

Miscarriages can also point toward fetal malformations, assuming they are spontaneous. Or maybe issues with the mother's immune system... though it feels like the other kind is the bigger concern. And those can leave lasting consequences too.

I also mentioned that spontaneous miscarriages are pathologies and should be reported. What I was actually referring to were elective abortions—and those are two completely different things.

Lisa Moore61 said:If there's a breach of medical privacy, you file a complaint with the State Medical Board—then an ethics committee reviews the case and hands out sanctions.

Can you actually give me one single example where an "ethics committee" actually stripped someone's license for leaking confidential patient info?

Don't just spread bitterness on the forum. 🙂

Maybe I have a reason to be bitter—maybe someone incredibly close to me died because of doctors.

Patients aren't experts enough to know what's relevant to their medical history, and providing wrong data can seriously hurt them—wasting precious time needed for proper treatment or even leading them down the wrong path. It's their own fault.

Oh, sure, because patients are "unqualified"—meanwhile, we've got plenty of incompetent doctors mismanaging care, and apparently, nobody in this country cares.

If you don't trust your doctor, just switch to a different one.

Well, that’s not always an option upfront—sometimes people misjudge the situation, and by then, it might already be too late.

placidorca16 said:Since our standing here clearly isn't equal, and since you've already started making threats from such a position of power, I simply have nothing left to say to you.

And yet, despite all that, you went ahead and typed out an entire page of follow-up. 🙄 All for the sake of the rest of us, I suppose. 🙄

So, I just remembered that whole mess with that famous OBGYN from Pula who performed an ab (even though he tried to claim it wasn't actually an ab since it was just a gestational sac without a fetus, but other doctors were basically like, "yeah, that's definitely a pregnancy"). The patient ended up in the Mayo Clinic later because of complications.

I guess I don't know how that whole thing wrapped up.

But here’s a professional take—Dr. Eva Jendriš, an OBGYN specialist from Sun Medical Center:
Possible consequences of abortion

The fallout from an abortion can be huge—both physically and emotionally. Complications might stem from anesthesia issues or just hiccups during the procedure itself. Procedural complications include infections, which can hit one or more parts of the reproductive system. So, we're talking the uterus and fallopian tubes, but it can spread further and even lead to sepsis. The most common outcome of that is infertility. If you don't catch it and treat it fast enough, things can get life-threateningly serious.

Another potential issue is bleeding, or retained products, which happens if the uterine contents aren't fully cleared out during the procedure. That can also trigger heavy, dangerous bleeding and/or infections.

Plus, uterine perforation isn't exactly a walk in the park either—that's when a medical instrument basically "punctures" the uterus.

Even though complications from an abortion are rare, they are unfortunately possible: they can range from totally harmless to super dangerous, potentially causing infertility or even putting the woman's life at risk.

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So, since an ab can impact a woman's reproductive health, it makes sense why an OBGYN (who deals with reproductive organs) would want to know if she's had one (whether it was intentional or spontaneous). Even if the risks for an abortion (in a healthy woman!) are low and don't happen all the time, they still exist, I guess.

To give a real example, a friend of mine had an ab. Later, when she went for a checkup, her doctor asked if she'd had one. She said yes, and instead of judging her, he just asked—how many times she'd had them (since repeated abortions can cause damage to the cervix, which raises the risk of losing future wanted pregnancies) and if there were any complications during or after (like excessive bleeding, infection, or sepsis).