Best offshore sportsbooks for online betting?

William Ruiz12 said:If I’m reading this notice correctly, I think they’re planning to track us via IP address rather than looking at our actual payouts, since they’ve banned betting on foreign sites within the US. So, theoretically, we can bet from other countries, just not while we're physically sitting on American soil, if I've got that right.
Anyway, it’s a total disaster. Honestly, people should just walk away from betting altogether; let them shut everything down and call it a day. Let them lose everything since they're being so greedy, especially with another thousand people already struggling on the stock market.
If anyone actually knows what's going on, please fill me in.

For example, I might theoretically have money sitting in a sportsbook from five years ago before all this stuff became illegal—or better yet, back when I snagged a voucher from a local bookie through a newspaper promo—and now I've just got those funds sitting there, and whenever I feel like watching a live game, I'll just log in and watch without actually placing a bet.

I mean, if they’re really going to base this on IP addresses, then they might as well just block every single ISP providing service in the US, and then we'll all just have to find a way around it. As it stands, though, I suspect it’s actually the bank accounts under scrutiny—specifically the ones handling major payouts, and believe me, there are plenty of people doing that, otherwise these local bureaucrats wouldn't be whining and leaning on the IRS about these operations!!

It would be a lot smarter if they spent their time auditing the private companies in our country that pay workers under the table and steal from the government just as blatantly; online sportsbooks aren't the problem here, it's just that the people in charge are incompetent and clueless!

Larry King2 said:I'm looking into DraftKings—anyone have experience with them? From what I've seen, their odds on favorites (you know, those lower multipliers) seem pretty decent. I'm not exactly some high roller, so I doubt I'd ever run into any account limiting issues. 🙂 Basically, can you deposit and withdraw using Venmo if you're playing from the US, or do they make things difficult?
If anyone could give me a quick rundown, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks.

Total bottom-feeders—just stay away. You can only get your money out via bank transfer. So, before that cash even hits your checking account, some government bureaucrat at the bank is going to flag the transaction and snatch a 1% fee for themselves. And of course, they’ll see exactly where the money is coming from. In this day and age, with all these ridiculous tax grabs and extra scrutiny, you really don't want that kind of paper trail on your statement.

Kyle Ward said:Total bottom-feeders—avoid them. They only pay out via bank transfer. That means before any money hits your account, some government bureaucrat at the bank flags the transaction and skims a 1% fee. Plus, they see exactly where the cash is coming from. With all the tax madness going on lately, you don't want that kind of paper trail.

How did you handle your deposit earlier? If you didn't use a bank transfer, maybe that's why they’re limiting your withdrawal options to just that one way.

William Ruiz12 said:If I am interpreting this notice correctly, I suspect they might be monitoring us through our IP addresses rather than tracking specific payouts, since using foreign betting sites while physically located within the United States is prohibited.

The way this announcement is phrased seems to leave quite a bit of room for different interpretations:

Regarding this matter, we note that under Section 68, Subsection 1, Item 2 of the Gambling Act, participating in foreign gambling activities is prohibited if the wagers are placed from within the United States.

I suppose I interpret that to mean that placing the actual wager while on American soil is what is forbidden. So, if the funds are deposited into a savings account at a foreign bank—or perhaps a foreign e-wallet—and those funds are used to cover the bets from there, I don't really see any potential conflict with American law. ☕

No, here’s the kicker—I deposited using my credit card directly, but then they told me a withdrawal via that same method was impossible.

And don't even get me started on the hoops they made me jump through. They demanded a mountain of scanned documents, then a screenshot of my bank account IBAN, then a full screenshot of my banking portal showing every single detail—SWIFT/BIC, their info, address, everything... then a screenshot of my last deposit to DraftKings. Only after they finally exhausted every single piece of trolling bullshit did they actually let me withdraw through some other method.

To top it off, I spent a solid three weeks fighting them just to get my money, and we aren't even talking about a massive jackpot here. It was basically just a standard monthly paycheck in the States. So, honestly? My advice is to steer clear of them entirely, but hey, it's your call.

ironpanther said:That is precisely the point... we are in agreement on that... however, the government also seems to be demanding a bit too much from companies like UPS or other major players, forcing them to choose between paying up or simply walking away from the business entirely. There really ought to be equal conditions applied to everyone. As it stands, it makes our local bookmakers look like crooks while making sites like bet365 seem incredibly soft on operators. I suppose the only reason this hasn't been settled by now is due to the sheer sluggishness of our government. But once they realize how much revenue is being lost this way—how much money is literally flowing right across the border—I don't doubt they will eventually address the issue (though I am not sure how feasible that will actually be).

I think you might have completely missed the core of the matter here, my friend.

The United States is essentially the only culprit in this scenario—because of how things are structured here, American bookmakers just can't compete with foreign ones. Therefore, the U.S. needs to reduce its levies and taxes, realize that it is part of a much broader global market today, and then there won't be this problem of capital fleeing to foreign betting sites.

Why doesn't the U.S. establish a legal framework that would allow UPS to compete with bwin in international markets, thereby allowing the treasury to collect tax revenue through the profits of an American commercial enterprise?

UPS is ready for that possibility—they have already enhanced their websites with English language versions quite some time ago. It is the American government that is preventing them from earning on foreign markets. Because of these distasteful laws, both American bookmakers and American players end up feeling squeezed.

The government should probably understand one simple thing: players bet for themselves. Players want to achieve winnings that they can spend personally. They aren't betting for the state, and they truly don't care whether the government collects taxes or not. They will always find a way to bypass all these ridiculous, overbearing regulations.

🙂

jadesailor said:What if you just pull cash from an ATM using a Skrill card while you're out in, say, Texas? Does that work too? Let’s not talk nonsense here.

Hey, don't be so harsh—I was just trying to point out that we shouldn't get too hung up on all these different "workarounds." When the government sets its mind on something, they make it happen. Especially this neoliberal, fascist-lite entity we're living under, which is probably going to get even more authoritarian than it already is in about a year.😢

For now, do what you can while you can. Nobody’s guaranteeing any of this will still be an option down the road...

slybison8 said:My friend, you have completely missed the entire point.

The US is basically the villain in this scenario—because of how things are set up here, domestic betting sites can't actually compete with the international giants. If the US wants to fix this, it needs to cut down on the red tape and taxes, realize it's part of a much larger global market, and then it won't have such a hard time with all that capital bleeding out to foreign bookies.

Why doesn't the US just write a legal framework that would allow UPS to go toe-to-toe with bwin in foreign markets? That way, instead of losing money, the tax revenue from those profits would stay right here in our own treasury.

UPS is ready for it—they've had their websites updated with English versions for ages. It's the government that's standing in their way, preventing them from making money abroad. These ridiculous, overreaching laws end up squeezing both the local bookies and the players.

The state needs to grasp one simple thing: people bet for themselves. Players want to win money they can actually spend. They aren't betting for the government, and they couldn't care less whether the state grabs a cut or not. They will always find a way to bypass these absurd, Gestapo-style regulations.

🙂

And why would the US ever write a framework that allows a private company—one that isn't cozying up to political power brokers—to succeed? Anything other than a quick trip to bankruptcy?
They could enable something like that for the Lottery, sure, but that would mean opening the door to competition. And why would they want competition for a state-run monopoly that exists specifically so they can funnel cash through shady channels and then "bail it out" later?

It sounds like they're sawing off the very branch they're sitting on—or more accurately, cutting off the hand that reaches into everyone else's pockets!

Honestly, I think it's smarter for all of us to focus on selling our skills to foreigners who can still access online betting without all this headache.

Btw, has anyone thought about asking one of the big-name online bookmakers what they think about all this?

ruggedpilot5 said:btw, has anyone thought about asking one of those big-name online sportsbooks what they actually think about all this mess?

So I went ahead and reached out to Pinnacle—since I guess they’re pretty much the only legit sportsbook worth mentioning—and here’s the kind of response I got..

Dear Customer,

Just wanted to let you know that, as far as we're aware, we are still taking on clients from the US.

Keep in mind things might shift, but we've passed your message along to the right folks over in the relevant department to look into it.

electricwolf21 said:I reached out to Pinnacle, since I consider them to be the only legitimate sportsbook, and this was their response...

Dear Customer,

Please be advised that, to our knowledge, we are still accepting clients from the US.

Please note that this situation may change; however, we have forwarded your inquiry to the relevant department for further review.

I suppose I am not entirely certain if that is the best strategy to take. It seems possible that making such inquiries might actually backfire by alarming them, potentially causing them to restrict US clients even sooner, which is what that reply from Pinnacle seems to imply.

An alternative approach that I might suggest would be reaching out to a specific representative in the European Parliament from either Gibraltar or Malta. Since Gibraltar only has one representative—who serves the Southwest England district and belongs to UKIP—I feel like I could perhaps write to him directly, and I think I might actually do so. 🙂

Malta, on the other hand, has several representatives. Generally, it might be wise to contact those belonging to the same political party currently in power in Malta. One should probably ask for their perspective on whether the actions of the American tax authorities regarding the crackdown on online betting via companies registered in their jurisdictions are truly in line with EU legislation. It would likely be in their direct interest to look into these matters, given that it involves the interests of corporations registered within their own borders. You could also potentially forward your correspondence to the local media in those countries, which might give the representative some extra incentive to address your inquiry.

slybison8 said:I’m not so sure that’s the best way to play this. Sending queries like that might just scare them off—basically fast-tracking them to block all customers from America, which is pretty much what that response from Pinnacle implies.

The alternative I’d suggest? Reach out to a specific representative in the European Parliament from either Gibraltar or Malta. Now, Gibraltar only has one rep (from the South West England district) and they’re with UKIP, so I could probably reach out to them myself—honestly, I might just do it. 🙂

Malta has a few reps—usually, it’s a smart move to hit up representatives from the same political party currently holding power in Malta. You should be asking for their take on how the American IRS is handling online betting through bookmakers registered in their jurisdictions, especially since everything is being done in full compliance with EU law. It’s directly in their interest to look into this because we're talking about the interests of companies registered right in their own backyard. You can even forward the correspondence to local media in those countries just to give the representative some extra incentive to actually deal with the inquiry.

I’m really curious to see if you actually get a reply, but man, props to you for the idea and the mindset. 🙂

As for contacting the bookmakers themselves... look, sooner or later they’re going to block us and stop taking bets if that’s where they stand. One email isn't going to change the whole game, unless maybe it speeds up the inevitable.

On the bright side, at least we’ll know what’s coming and can start planning our strategy accordingly.

But let's be real, it’s hard to imagine Pinnacle responding with something like:

"Yeah, we're aware of the legal framework in America, but we've decided to ignore the American legal order anyway, so we're gonna keep taking players from the US." 🤣
So, sending an email like that basically has one consequence and one possible outcome... though, I was thinking of approaching it a bit differently—much more discreetly, you know?

I honestly didn't even catch this post until today. My buddy and I missed the window by about three days; we put some cash on a live bet over at Bet365 and ended up cashing out maybe ten bucks. So, what now? Am I really going to be slapped with $16667 fines just because I missed an article? Does anyone actually know if people have received penalties already? Or am I "safe" from any trouble if I just stop placing bets there altogether? 😢

Get your wallet ready, you're gonna owe me ;-)

Bryan Adams6 said:Get your wallet ready, because you're about to get hit with a fine ;-)

Honestly, I really hope you're joking, because this notice actually gave me a bit of a scare.😢 😢

So, just take a look at Section 68 of the Law:

This law has been on the books for a while now and honestly, nothing much has changed. Once they started treating players like nothing more than cash cows, tax revenues just tanked. Now they’re pulling in even less than they used to. It’s like the government can't wrap its head around the fact that people play to win money, not to pad the federal budget. Revenue for the state lottery has plummeted, which is exactly why they're pulling this stunt. As for what this "increased oversight" actually looks like? We'll find out soon enough.

Jamie Rivera78 said:So, take a look at Section 68 of the Law:

The Law has been in effect for a while now, and honestly, nothing much has changed. Once they started treating players like cash cows, tax revenues just tanked—now they’re pulling in even less than before. It seems the government can't grasp that players are here to make money, not to subsidize the federal budget. Revenue for the national Lottery specifically has plummeted, which is likely why we're seeing this sudden shift. As for what this "increased oversight" actually looks like? We'll see soon enough.

I noticed that too. And it mentions that increased oversight is being prepared. But is it actually in the works, or has it already begun? Given they had that long holiday weekend😁

Jamie Rivera78 said:So, I suppose if you take a look at Section 68 of the Law:
I suppose if one were looking for clarity, the official Law regarding games of chance can be found through this link:

I seem to recall that specific Law being passed back when the Republican Party held office during the period of Šuker's tenure as Secretary of the Treasury.

That final paragraph seems highly probable, and I suspect it actually runs contrary to the American Constitution, which is something I noted back when it was first being drafted.

I suppose it might be possible that individuals who aren't American citizens but are staying in the US on a temporary basis could be allowed to hold tickets or participate in foreign lottery games, if it's just for their own personal enjoyment.

I suppose one might find a certain amount of arrogance contained within that particular sentence, while simultaneously noticing how little, or perhaps even zero, actual intelligence or wisdom is present.

Foreigners seem to be granted quite a bit of leeway regarding things that nobody could really stop them from having anyway. If they legally purchase something abroad—provided it isn't drugs, weapons, or any other strictly regulated contraband—the US allows them to keep it. I guess it’s just how things work here. They aren't going to strip people down to their underwear at the border just to hunt for Powerball tickets. Wow. Seriously. 😁

The issue, I suppose, is that the exact same thing really ought to be permitted for American citizens, especially given our standing as a member of the European Union. It simply has to be so; there shouldn't be any room for "ifs" or "buts."

If I travel to Austria or the United Kingdom and purchase something that is legally available there, I am essentially conducting a transaction within the unified market of the European Union. Consequently, I suppose that transaction should be considered legal throughout the entire EU. Since there aren't any customs checkpoints within that territory, I feel like whatever I bought legally—provided it isn't marijuana or hashish from an Amsterdam coffee shop—is my property, and I should have the right to keep it with me.

I suppose the Law doesn't explicitly state that Americans are prohibited from doing what foreigners are allowed to do here, though it certainly implies such a restriction exists. It feels as if the legislation was drafted specifically to cultivate confusion, perhaps intentionally projecting an interpretation that differs from what the actual legal reality should be.

I believe there is a similarly worded provision in the legal code—if my memory serves me correctly—that concerns the ownership of investment gold, such as bullion or coins. It seems they have phrased it in a way that creates the illusion that owning such assets is somehow prohibited, when in reality, nobody can actually stop you. I suppose it's simply because they can't track gold coins through a Social Security number or seize them through a bank levy; since they have no idea where you might have buried it or tucked it away in a private safe, they would likely prefer to discourage anyone from holding wealth outside of traditional bank accounts. 😁

Well... how unfortunate. 🙂

I suspect this whole thing is just a lottery tactic designed to scare people away from looking abroad, but I have a different question entirely. What about the massive amount of players out there who want to play poker? Since that isn't offered here, wouldn't you call that some level of discrimination?

I am of the opinion that there is absolutely no need to send any emails.
If you are curious about how a specific sportsbook might react, simply attempt to create a new account and see which ones allow you to select Bulgaria as your location (those guys are arguably the biggest sticklers in all of Europe regarding this, and our local institutions are clearly following their lead).
Personally, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it; when dealing with the major players, you can always utilize agents, and in those cases, nobody can touch you—just an agent plus a VPN and everything is smooth sailing in Canada. As for these smaller sportsbooks, I would suggest making the most of them while you still can, since if you happen to be a winning player, it won't be long before they start limiting your stakes anyway.

Just to add my two cents, anyone with even a modicum of common sense could see as early as January 1st that tax revenues were going to take a massive hit under the new legislation. Yet, instead of those bureaucrats actually conducting a proper impact study on the law, they chose to lean into these public scares. Having worked in this field, I find it incredibly illuminating; it makes it perfectly clear just how incompetent these officials are, and it is highly probable that this same lack of foresight applies to legislation passed in other sectors as well. Therefore, it is entirely logical that our country finds itself in its current state, and frankly, we are doing quite well to remain stable at all.

I caught this article the other day where they’re threatening players with penalties from $17 just because they decide to place bets with "disloyal" competitors.
Look, if you ask me, any sportsbook that survives solely on razor-thin margins is going to label anyone else as "disloyal" competition 🤦

The real question on my mind is this: if these massive betting giants decide to ban players from the US, will they actually be able to figure out where I’m really betting if I’m masking my connection through a Proxy?
And can they track it down once I go to withdraw my winnings?

I’m asking because it feels like I’ll end up having to open yet another account just to keep them from sticking their noses into my money.

To be more specific, is it actually possible to find a resident of a standard US state who would open an account for me, so I can just hop on later using a Proxy from their location?