Monaco GP - May 29, 2022 @ 3:00 PM

Thanks to both of you 🙂.

Lisa Thomas3 said:At the end of the day, Sergio Perez just doesn't have the depth to go toe-to-toe with Max Verstappen over a full season. He's not going to be a legitimate threat for the WDC...
The level of dominance Max Verstappen established over the last few seasons—where he was basically playing a different sport than everyone else—was never actually realistic. It’s something we’ve never seen before in the history of the sport. At the end of the day, you have to account for track conditions; some circuits just favor certain drivers more than others...
Perez is a solid driver, but he’s up against the toughest competition out there. He knows it, and anyone with half a brain—including the folks over at Red Bull Racing—knows it too...
Even this season proves it. The fact that Perez is trailing by "only" 15 points despite having fewer DNFs than Max—and considering the team handed him the win in Monaco instead of giving it to Max—isn't an argument for them being equals. If anything, it proves the exact opposite...😁
So, sure, if his strategy relies on Max picking up five more DNFs when he hasn't had a single one, then fine—maybe he can still dream about the title. But I’m not convinced that’s exactly brilliant math. And what does playing second fiddle at Red Bull actually get him? Getting kicked out of the team (with or without a contract)? What, is Ferrari going to swoop in and hire him just to spite their own roster of jokers? Even that doesn't seem like a solid plan; as much as Ferrari might be fed up with their current drivers, they aren't about to poach a number two driver from a direct rival... 😁
Honestly, he’d be an idiot to do anything other than play ball. He should just take whatever wins the circumstances throw his way—like right now in Monaco—and call it a day. There’s zero chance he lands a seat as the number one driver at another top-tier team at his age, and he simply can't compete with Max Verstappen. Maybe, if he stays in line, Max decides to move on eventually, leaving Perez to inherit the number one spot along with a much weaker teammate. If Red Bull Racing stays strong, that’s his only shot at a title. If we're talking about any realistic scenario where Perez actually wins a championship, that's the only one...

I usually avoid arguing with this troll, but I can't just let this nonsense sit there unrefuted. If someone doesn't set the record straight, people end up swallowing these ridiculous claims and passing them around like truth.
Look, at the moment those "team orders" were supposedly happening, Max was nearly a second and a half faster than Sergio Perez on track. It’s a safe bet he would have shaken him off quite easily, so all this math regarding point gaps is complete nonsense.
In reality, it wasn't even a classic team order situation. It was just about efficiency—avoiding wasting precious seconds on an internal battle that had a predictable outcome anyway, especially since they were on totally different strategies and running at completely different paces.
For anyone peddling this stupidity, the ultimate proof is this: Red Bull didn't pull Max into the pits for a fastest lap right after Sergio Perez, even though they easily could have. Everything about this is clear and logical.

It's about as logical as assuming Max Verstappen would have stayed ahead of Sergio Perez in Monaco qualifying if things had just stayed clean until the end. But hey, if some people want to act dense and argue over nothing, more power to them...

That’s actually spot on...

Even this season proves it. I mean, the fact that Perez is trailing by "only" 15 points despite having fewer DNFs than Max says it all. And they even handed him the win in Monaco instead of Max.Actually, that isn't even an argument for equality—it’s an argument against it.😁

Get lost. 🤦
There was zero chance for Max in Monaco. He was simply slower than Leclerc, Sainz, and Perez.
I’d actually love to hear exactly what kind of insane scenario you’re picturing here. 🙂

Don't worry, if Red Bull could have shoved Max ahead of Perez without accidentally handing the win or the points to Sainz or Leclerc, they would've done it in a heartbeat.
They didn't stand a chance. Max was just too slow, regardless of all the nonsense his fans were blathering on about.

Look, second point: Perez is just the guy Red Bull used to snatch victory in Barcelona and hand it over to Max. There’s absolutely no talk of them gifting anything to Perez here—it’s strictly a heist to make sure Max gets the win.
Is that robbery justified or not? Honestly, it's up for debate, but I really think it is. At the end of the day, it’s still a robbery at Perez's expense just to hand Max a win, no matter how much people try to spin it otherwise.

If Red Bull hadn't stepped in today, Max and Checo might have been splitting a single point between them. But let's be real—it’s obvious that on any given good day, Max is the one with the much better shot at grabbing the title over Perez.
And that's even if the points situation were flipped, let alone how it stands right now...
That’s exactly why Red Bull handed Max the win in Barcelona. They would've handed him the win in Monaco too if they could, but they couldn't. There was no way around it—Max was easily the slowest of the top four from Red Bull and Ferrari.
Honestly, they’d just be throwing away their own Constructors' points with a move like that. Even if things played out differently, Max was still winning—unless Sainz somehow snatched it from him.
And honestly, Perez might have just lost his mind and gone after Leclerc out of pure rage, so that definitely wasn't an option. ☕

Lisa Thomas3 said:At the end of the day, Sergio Perez just doesn't have the depth to go toe-to-toe with Max Verstappen over a full season. He's not going to be a legitimate threat for the WDC...
The level of dominance Max Verstappen established over the last few seasons—where he was basically playing a different sport than everyone else—was never actually realistic. It’s something we’ve never seen before in the history of the sport. At the end of the day, you have to account for track conditions; some circuits just favor certain drivers more than others...
Perez is a solid driver, but he’s up against the toughest competition out there. He knows it, and anyone with half a brain—including the folks over at Red Bull Racing—knows it too...
Even this season proves it. The fact that Perez is trailing by "only" 15 points despite having fewer DNFs than Max—and considering the team handed him the win in Monaco instead of giving it to Max—isn't an argument for them being equals. If anything, it proves the exact opposite...😁
So, sure, if his strategy relies on Max picking up five more DNFs when he hasn't had a single one, then fine—maybe he can still dream about the title. But I’m not convinced that’s exactly brilliant math. And what does playing second fiddle at Red Bull actually get him? Getting kicked out of the team (with or without a contract)? What, is Ferrari going to swoop in and hire him just to spite their own roster of jokers? Even that doesn't seem like a solid plan; as much as Ferrari might be fed up with their current drivers, they aren't about to poach a number two driver from a direct rival... 😁
Honestly, he’d be an idiot to do anything other than play ball. He should just take whatever wins the circumstances throw his way—like right now in Monaco—and call it a day. There’s zero chance he lands a seat as the number one driver at another top-tier team at his age, and he simply can't compete with Max Verstappen. Maybe, if he stays in line, Max decides to move on eventually, leaving Perez to inherit the number one spot along with a much weaker teammate. If Red Bull Racing stays strong, that’s his only shot at a title. If we're talking about any realistic scenario where Perez actually wins a championship, that's the only one...

I usually avoid arguing with this troll, but I can't just let this nonsense sit there unrefuted. If someone doesn't set the record straight, people end up swallowing these ridiculous claims and passing them around like truth.
Look, at the moment those "team orders" were supposedly happening, Max was nearly a second and a half faster than Sergio Perez on track. It’s a safe bet he would have shaken him off quite easily, so all this math regarding point gaps is complete nonsense.
In reality, it wasn't even a classic team order situation. It was just about efficiency—avoiding wasting precious seconds on an internal battle that had a predictable outcome anyway, especially since they were on totally different strategies and running at completely different paces.
For anyone peddling this stupidity, the ultimate proof is this: Red Bull didn't pull Max into the pits for a fastest lap right after Sergio Perez, even though they easily could have. Everything about this is clear and logical.

It's about as logical as assuming Max Verstappen would have stayed ahead of Sergio Perez in Monaco qualifying if things had just stayed clean until the end. But hey, if some people want to act dense and argue over nothing, more power to them...

That all sounds lovely, but Red Bull did issue a team order in Barcelona, so feel free to lie through your teeth until Judgment Day about how they didn't, shouldn't have, or whatever else...
So, would Max have overtaken Perez in a heartbeat or not? I think he would, you think he would, the whole planet could be convinced he would...
but we don't actually know if it would've happened, because Red Bull decided there wouldn't be a fight.☕
And for that matter, Perez could've just held Max up until the finish regardless of whether Max was running a second or two faster per lap before that.
They could've collided, leaving Perez to take the win and Max with a DNF, which would've made the gap to Perez way larger...
Or they could've crashed and Perez gets a DNF while Max takes the win, putting Perez way behind, or they both crash and get DNFs...

Anything could have happened, and we'll never know for sure because we didn't see the duel.
And honestly, all this talk about being a second faster is pretty hollow. I mean, damn, even Hamilton was over three seconds faster than Alonso and he was still stuck behind him...
Because in Formula 1, one thing is easy, but another is hard... always has been and always will be.
It's tougher on some tracks and easier on others, but nowhere is it as easy as overtaking once the car in front clears out.🙂

It's a totally reasonable assumption based on data, logic, and common sense that Verstappen would have been ahead of Perez in qualifying in Monaco if the session had stayed clean. But hey, if you want to act stupid and argue about it, go right ahead.

Reasonable my ass. A guy who couldn't be faster than Perez all weekend suddenly becoming faster on that one specific lap? Yeah, right.
🙂
Of course, that's assuming the faster Perez doesn't slam into the wall and fail to finish the lap. And assuming there's no red flag,
assuming Sainz doesn't plow into Perez and ruin his lap without a red flag appearing, and assuming there's no red flag even if Alonso hits the barrier,
plus assuming Leclerc loses his way somewhere or heads off to a local pub for a beer, then maybe—just maybe—Max could miraculously grab pole.
But even then, it's a massive question mark whether he'd actually beat anyone or just slightly improve his already mediocre time.🙂

I love this little fantasy where Max is finally faster than Perez, and Sainz too, and obviously Leclerc. Because if those three all disappear off the track, then clearly nobody is faster than Max, because, well, he's Max...

Amanda Kelly said:Just the exact opposite.
If you look at the data from almost every session leading up to that final lap in Q3, Sergio Perez was actually outpacing Max Verstappen in Monaco. And that’s even when they were running in nearly identical track conditions.
If you actually look at the data and use a little common sense, the logical conclusion is pretty simple: Perez should be ahead of Max Verstappen in qualifying at Monaco.

I'll say it again:
Sergio Perez; Just get Max out of my way so I can make this pass..
Bird; Yeah copy Checo.
Look, just focus on building that margin on the tire temps for the time being.
Brakes are running a little hot.
Look, let's just hold steady at two seconds for the moment. We aren't even running the same race as those guys.
Sergio Perez; Why won't you just let me through? My tires are practically brand new. I could make the pass in a heartbeat.
Bird; Build the margin on the tyre temps, build the margin on the brakes, we’ll get our chance.
Sergio Perez. We’re going to end up screwing over our own race at this rate, man.
Bird: We've got Leclerc slow in turn 10.
...

I can't have a serious conversation with someone who thinks throwing an FP session at me as "proof" that a driver is actually faster during the weekend is a valid argument...🤦
It’s roughly the same level of logic as looking at preseason testing times and pretending you actually know what the order is going to look like. Are we going to have a serious conversation here, or are we just going to keep throwing around these childish arguments?...
Are we actually watching Formula 1 or what?
How many times in the last few seasons has Bottas actually clocked better times in FP1, FP2, or FP3—sometimes even through Q1 and Q2—only to have Hamilton absolutely smoke him in Q3 like he was nothing? Honestly, using that as an argument is just unbelievably stupid...

Even during Q1 and Q2, the top guys aren't exactly driving at their absolute limit. When you get to Q3—which is really the only part that matters—was Perez actually faster by that 0.037 in the first sector? Meanwhile, Max was putting down much faster times during those first two stints of the second round...
I'm saying it again: my common-sense takeaway is that in a pure qualifying session, Max would have ended up out front. People can draw their own conclusions. If you want to believe he would’ve cooked his tires in the third stint or slammed into a wall, go ahead—that's your business. I’ve stated my position: the most likely and logical scenario is that Max finishes ahead. That's it. I think we've exhausted this topic...

stormybadger8 said:That’s actually spot on...

Even this season proves it. I mean, the fact that Perez is trailing by "only" 15 points despite having fewer DNFs than Max says it all. And they even handed him the win in Monaco instead of Max.Actually, that isn't even an argument for equality—it’s an argument against it.😁

Get lost. 🤦
There was zero chance for Max in Monaco. He was simply slower than Leclerc, Sainz, and Perez.
I’d actually love to hear exactly what kind of insane scenario you’re picturing here. 🙂

Don't worry, if Red Bull could have shoved Max ahead of Perez without accidentally handing the win or the points to Sainz or Leclerc, they would've done it in a heartbeat.
They didn't stand a chance. Max was just too slow, regardless of all the nonsense his fans were blathering on about.

Look, second point: Perez is just the guy Red Bull used to snatch victory in Barcelona and hand it over to Max. There’s absolutely no talk of them gifting anything to Perez here—it’s strictly a heist to make sure Max gets the win.
Is that robbery justified or not? Honestly, it's up for debate, but I really think it is. At the end of the day, it’s still a robbery at Perez's expense just to hand Max a win, no matter how much people try to spin it otherwise.

If Red Bull hadn't stepped in today, Max and Checo might have been splitting a single point between them. But let's be real—it’s obvious that on any given good day, Max is the one with the much better shot at grabbing the title over Perez.
And that's even if the points situation were flipped, let alone how it stands right now...
That’s exactly why Red Bull handed Max the win in Barcelona. They would've handed him the win in Monaco too if they could, but they couldn't. There was no way around it—Max was easily the slowest of the top four from Red Bull and Ferrari.
Honestly, they’d just be throwing away their own Constructors' points with a move like that. Even if things played out differently, Max was still winning—unless Sainz somehow snatched it from him.
And honestly, Perez might have just lost his mind and gone after Leclerc out of pure rage, so that definitely wasn't an option. ☕

That all sounds lovely, but Red Bull did issue a team order in Barcelona, so feel free to lie through your teeth until Judgment Day about how they didn't, shouldn't have, or whatever else...
So, would Max have overtaken Perez in a heartbeat or not? I think he would, you think he would, the whole planet could be convinced he would...
but we don't actually know if it would've happened, because Red Bull decided there wouldn't be a fight.☕
And for that matter, Perez could've just held Max up until the finish regardless of whether Max was running a second or two faster per lap before that.
They could've collided, leaving Perez to take the win and Max with a DNF, which would've made the gap to Perez way larger...
Or they could've crashed and Perez gets a DNF while Max takes the win, putting Perez way behind, or they both crash and get DNFs...

Anything could have happened, and we'll never know for sure because we didn't see the duel.
And honestly, all this talk about being a second faster is pretty hollow. I mean, damn, even Hamilton was over three seconds faster than Alonso and he was still stuck behind him...
Because in Formula 1, one thing is easy, but another is hard... always has been and always will be.
It's tougher on some tracks and easier on others, but nowhere is it as easy as overtaking once the car in front clears out.🙂

It's a totally reasonable assumption based on data, logic, and common sense that Verstappen would have been ahead of Perez in qualifying in Monaco if the session had stayed clean. But hey, if you want to act stupid and argue about it, go right ahead.

Reasonable my ass. A guy who couldn't be faster than Perez all weekend suddenly becoming faster on that one specific lap? Yeah, right.
🙂
Of course, that's assuming the faster Perez doesn't slam into the wall and fail to finish the lap. And assuming there's no red flag,
assuming Sainz doesn't plow into Perez and ruin his lap without a red flag appearing, and assuming there's no red flag even if Alonso hits the barrier,
plus assuming Leclerc loses his way somewhere or heads off to a local pub for a beer, then maybe—just maybe—Max could miraculously grab pole.
But even then, it's a massive question mark whether he'd actually beat anyone or just slightly improve his already mediocre time.🙂

I love this little fantasy where Max is finally faster than Perez, and Sainz too, and obviously Leclerc. Because if those three all disappear off the track, then clearly nobody is faster than Max, because, well, he's Max...

Just a quick summary: in the first stint, Perez was glued to Sainz's gearbox, and Max was stuck right behind Perez. Only Leclerc managed to pull away a bit. As for how fast the Red Bulls actually were, it's hard to say, but we know Perez was complaining over the radio about Sainz holding him up. We also saw evidence earlier in this thread that once Max pitted, he was driving faster than Leclerc during those crucial laps...
Basically, if Max had gone into the pits instead of Perez and everything else played out the same way, he would've easily stayed ahead of Perez and likely at least second—maybe even first depending on his pace. Sure, in that scenario, maybe Ferrari reacts differently or the whole thing shifts, but the point remains: it was obvious the inters were the better call right then, and whoever jumped on them first would come out on top. And Red Bull was pretty fair about calling Perez in first...
Bottom line: if Red Bull was strictly playing for Max, they definitely would've pulled him in first if they weren't already committed to the hard tire strategy. But Perez was ahead on track and got the pit priority. It’s fair game...
Just like in the US, where you dodged the question again about why Red Bull didn't give Max an extra point instead of Perez if he's really their guy. They had the chance, right?
But sure, let's keep ignoring that and stick to the fairy tales about what happened in the US...

Amanda Kelly said:Just the exact opposite.
If you look at the data from almost every session leading up to that final lap in Q3, Sergio Perez was actually outpacing Max Verstappen in Monaco. And that’s even when they were running in nearly identical track conditions.
If you actually look at the data and use a little common sense, the logical conclusion is pretty simple: Perez should be ahead of Max Verstappen in qualifying at Monaco.

I'll say it again:
Sergio Perez; Just get Max out of my way so I can make this pass..
Bird; Yeah copy Checo.
Look, just focus on building that margin on the tire temps for the time being.
Brakes are running a little hot.
Look, let's just hold steady at two seconds for the moment. We aren't even running the same race as those guys.
Sergio Perez; Why won't you just let me through? My tires are practically brand new. I could make the pass in a heartbeat.
Bird; Build the margin on the tyre temps, build the margin on the brakes, we’ll get our chance.
Sergio Perez. We’re going to end up screwing over our own race at this rate, man.
Bird: We've got Leclerc slow in turn 10.
...

Lisa Thomas3 said:I can't have a serious conversation with someone who thinks throwing an FP session at me as "proof" that a driver is actually faster during the weekend is a valid argument...🤦
It’s roughly the same level of logic as looking at preseason testing times and pretending you actually know what the order is going to look like. Are we going to have a serious conversation here, or are we just going to keep throwing around these childish arguments?...
Are we actually watching Formula 1 or what?
How many times in the last few seasons has Bottas actually clocked better times in FP1, FP2, or FP3—sometimes even through Q1 and Q2—only to have Hamilton absolutely smoke him in Q3 like he was nothing? Honestly, using that as an argument is just unbelievably stupid...

Even during Q1 and Q2, the top guys aren't exactly driving at their absolute limit. When you get to Q3—which is really the only part that matters—was Perez actually faster by that 0.037 in the first sector? Meanwhile, Max was putting down much faster times during those first two stints of the second round...
I'm saying it again: my common-sense takeaway is that in a pure qualifying session, Max would have ended up out front. People can draw their own conclusions. If you want to believe he would’ve cooked his tires in the third stint or slammed into a wall, go ahead—that's your business. I’ve stated my position: the most likely and logical scenario is that Max finishes ahead. That's it. I think we've exhausted this topic...

Just a quick summary: in the first stint, Perez was glued to Sainz's gearbox, and Max was stuck right behind Perez. Only Leclerc managed to pull away a bit. As for how fast the Red Bulls actually were, it's hard to say, but we know Perez was complaining over the radio about Sainz holding him up. We also saw evidence earlier in this thread that once Max pitted, he was driving faster than Leclerc during those crucial laps...
Basically, if Max had gone into the pits instead of Perez and everything else played out the same way, he would've easily stayed ahead of Perez and likely at least second—maybe even first depending on his pace. Sure, in that scenario, maybe Ferrari reacts differently or the whole thing shifts, but the point remains: it was obvious the inters were the better call right then, and whoever jumped on them first would come out on top. And Red Bull was pretty fair about calling Perez in first...
Bottom line: if Red Bull was strictly playing for Max, they definitely would've pulled him in first if they weren't already committed to the hard tire strategy. But Perez was ahead on track and got the pit priority. It’s fair game...
Just like in the US, where you dodged the question again about why Red Bull didn't give Max an extra point instead of Perez if he's really their guy. They had the chance, right?
But sure, let's keep ignoring that and stick to the fairy tales about what happened in the US...

FP1 -0.142 sec
FP2 -0.068 sec
FP3 -0.405 seconds.
Q1 -0.011 seconds.
Q2 +0.163
Q3 -0.037
Perez P1: Max P3

You’re taking FP out of context. An FP session on its own doesn't prove anything. But when you look at how it fits the speed gap between the Red Bull drivers in Monaco, it starts to make sense. It adds weight to the whole situation, even if I wouldn't have given it much thought otherwise.
Take the data from FP and Q that someone posted, then add the race results to it. These were all official sessions held in Monaco. Take a look at the correlation.
Those are the numbers. They aren't up for debate. It’s just the facts. If you want to call them childish arguments, go ahead. Be my guest.

Let’s be real: the data shows Perez was actually faster than Max for about 95% of the weekend in Monaco.
Now it's up to you—or anyone else, really—to draw your own conclusions.
I think my point stands: those numbers from Monaco actually matter. They're telling us something.
Some people just won't care about anything else as long as Max is sitting at the top of the standings and looking faster than Perez. That’s all that matters to them.

So, Max, his dad, Horner... everyone was saying Max didn't have a particularly fast week. I honestly don't get why there's so much pushback just because Perez was faster this week.

And it all feels a bit questionable when you look at Max's first sector in Q3. He clocked a solid first sector, which actually put him as the next fastest driver right after Leclerc.

Big deal, he was fast, but the next one might not be...

Enough about Q3; that was five days ago and there are much more interesting things to talk about now.

For instance, we've got Horner trying to convince us that Max and Perez are getting the exact same treatment from Red Bull.
"Horner: Red Bull happy for either Verstappen or Perez to win F1 Title"
@Motorsport.com

That Chinese person really shoved him out of the way while trying to overtake the Japanese person.

"I think I need some new pants after watching that!"

Amanda Kelly said:Enough about Q3; that was five days ago and there are much more interesting things to talk about now.

For instance, we've got Horner trying to convince us that Max and Perez are getting the exact same treatment from Red Bull.
"Horner: Red Bull happy for either Verstappen or Perez to win F1 Title"
@Motorsport.com

🤣

Yeah, right.

Lisa Thomas3 said:I can't have a serious conversation with someone who thinks throwing an FP session at me as "proof" that a driver is actually faster during the weekend is a valid argument...🤦
It’s roughly the same level of logic as looking at preseason testing times and pretending you actually know what the order is going to look like. Are we going to have a serious conversation here, or are we just going to keep throwing around these childish arguments?...
Are we actually watching Formula 1 or what?
How many times in the last few seasons has Bottas actually clocked better times in FP1, FP2, or FP3—sometimes even through Q1 and Q2—only to have Hamilton absolutely smoke him in Q3 like he was nothing? Honestly, using that as an argument is just unbelievably stupid...

Even during Q1 and Q2, the top guys aren't exactly driving at their absolute limit. When you get to Q3—which is really the only part that matters—was Perez actually faster by that 0.037 in the first sector? Meanwhile, Max was putting down much faster times during those first two stints of the second round...
I'm saying it again: my common-sense takeaway is that in a pure qualifying session, Max would have ended up out front. People can draw their own conclusions. If you want to believe he would’ve cooked his tires in the third stint or slammed into a wall, go ahead—that's your business. I’ve stated my position: the most likely and logical scenario is that Max finishes ahead. That's it. I think we've exhausted this topic...

Just a quick summary: in the first stint, Perez was glued to Sainz's gearbox, and Max was stuck right behind Perez. Only Leclerc managed to pull away a bit. As for how fast the Red Bulls actually were, it's hard to say, but we know Perez was complaining over the radio about Sainz holding him up. We also saw evidence earlier in this thread that once Max pitted, he was driving faster than Leclerc during those crucial laps...
Basically, if Max had gone into the pits instead of Perez and everything else played out the same way, he would've easily stayed ahead of Perez and likely at least second—maybe even first depending on his pace. Sure, in that scenario, maybe Ferrari reacts differently or the whole thing shifts, but the point remains: it was obvious the inters were the better call right then, and whoever jumped on them first would come out on top. And Red Bull was pretty fair about calling Perez in first...
Bottom line: if Red Bull was strictly playing for Max, they definitely would've pulled him in first if they weren't already committed to the hard tire strategy. But Perez was ahead on track and got the pit priority. It’s fair game...
Just like in the US, where you dodged the question again about why Red Bull didn't give Max an extra point instead of Perez if he's really their guy. They had the chance, right?
But sure, let's keep ignoring that and stick to the fairy tales about what happened in the US...

Alright, go ahead. Make a smart argument. Just how many times was Bottas actually faster during FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1, and Q2 in Monaco? 🙂
Don't bring up other tracks. They have absolutely nothing to do with Monaco. ☕
So in Monaco, how many times exactly was Bottas faster than Hamilton during FP1, FP2, and FP3?

In Monaco—and let me be clear, *only* in Monaco—FP1, FP2, and FP3 are nothing more than practice sessions for qualifying. It’s just test, test, and more testing for qualifying.
In Monaco, nobody even bothers with actual race sims because they’re basically useless. Instead, like 90% of the FP sessions are just pure qualifying simulations.
I mean, if you can hold everyone off without breaking a sweat while driving a car that's several seconds slower per lap, then you're clearly doing something right.
So, at the end of the day, the only thing that actually matters during FP in Monaco is qualifying pace. ☕

Lisa Thomas3 said:I can't have a serious conversation with someone who thinks throwing an FP session at me as "proof" that a driver is actually faster during the weekend is a valid argument...🤦
It’s roughly the same level of logic as looking at preseason testing times and pretending you actually know what the order is going to look like. Are we going to have a serious conversation here, or are we just going to keep throwing around these childish arguments?...
Are we actually watching Formula 1 or what?
How many times in the last few seasons has Bottas actually clocked better times in FP1, FP2, or FP3—sometimes even through Q1 and Q2—only to have Hamilton absolutely smoke him in Q3 like he was nothing? Honestly, using that as an argument is just unbelievably stupid...

Even during Q1 and Q2, the top guys aren't exactly driving at their absolute limit. When you get to Q3—which is really the only part that matters—was Perez actually faster by that 0.037 in the first sector? Meanwhile, Max was putting down much faster times during those first two stints of the second round...
I'm saying it again: my common-sense takeaway is that in a pure qualifying session, Max would have ended up out front. People can draw their own conclusions. If you want to believe he would’ve cooked his tires in the third stint or slammed into a wall, go ahead—that's your business. I’ve stated my position: the most likely and logical scenario is that Max finishes ahead. That's it. I think we've exhausted this topic...

Just a quick summary: in the first stint, Perez was glued to Sainz's gearbox, and Max was stuck right behind Perez. Only Leclerc managed to pull away a bit. As for how fast the Red Bulls actually were, it's hard to say, but we know Perez was complaining over the radio about Sainz holding him up. We also saw evidence earlier in this thread that once Max pitted, he was driving faster than Leclerc during those crucial laps...
Basically, if Max had gone into the pits instead of Perez and everything else played out the same way, he would've easily stayed ahead of Perez and likely at least second—maybe even first depending on his pace. Sure, in that scenario, maybe Ferrari reacts differently or the whole thing shifts, but the point remains: it was obvious the inters were the better call right then, and whoever jumped on them first would come out on top. And Red Bull was pretty fair about calling Perez in first...
Bottom line: if Red Bull was strictly playing for Max, they definitely would've pulled him in first if they weren't already committed to the hard tire strategy. But Perez was ahead on track and got the pit priority. It’s fair game...
Just like in the US, where you dodged the question again about why Red Bull didn't give Max an extra point instead of Perez if he's really their guy. They had the chance, right?
But sure, let's keep ignoring that and stick to the fairy tales about what happened in the US...

Oh, you had "proof," sure. Plenty of lovely little proofs, didn't you? 🙂
The only "proof" you guys actually had was that Williams is slower than Red Bull. 🙂
Because Leclerc’s times while stuck behind a Williams that's holding him up are just as representative as Hamilton's times while trailing Alonso...

Lisa Thomas3 said:I can't have a serious conversation with someone who thinks throwing an FP session at me as "proof" that a driver is actually faster during the weekend is a valid argument...🤦
It’s roughly the same level of logic as looking at preseason testing times and pretending you actually know what the order is going to look like. Are we going to have a serious conversation here, or are we just going to keep throwing around these childish arguments?...
Are we actually watching Formula 1 or what?
How many times in the last few seasons has Bottas actually clocked better times in FP1, FP2, or FP3—sometimes even through Q1 and Q2—only to have Hamilton absolutely smoke him in Q3 like he was nothing? Honestly, using that as an argument is just unbelievably stupid...

Even during Q1 and Q2, the top guys aren't exactly driving at their absolute limit. When you get to Q3—which is really the only part that matters—was Perez actually faster by that 0.037 in the first sector? Meanwhile, Max was putting down much faster times during those first two stints of the second round...
I'm saying it again: my common-sense takeaway is that in a pure qualifying session, Max would have ended up out front. People can draw their own conclusions. If you want to believe he would’ve cooked his tires in the third stint or slammed into a wall, go ahead—that's your business. I’ve stated my position: the most likely and logical scenario is that Max finishes ahead. That's it. I think we've exhausted this topic...

Just a quick summary: in the first stint, Perez was glued to Sainz's gearbox, and Max was stuck right behind Perez. Only Leclerc managed to pull away a bit. As for how fast the Red Bulls actually were, it's hard to say, but we know Perez was complaining over the radio about Sainz holding him up. We also saw evidence earlier in this thread that once Max pitted, he was driving faster than Leclerc during those crucial laps...
Basically, if Max had gone into the pits instead of Perez and everything else played out the same way, he would've easily stayed ahead of Perez and likely at least second—maybe even first depending on his pace. Sure, in that scenario, maybe Ferrari reacts differently or the whole thing shifts, but the point remains: it was obvious the inters were the better call right then, and whoever jumped on them first would come out on top. And Red Bull was pretty fair about calling Perez in first...
Bottom line: if Red Bull was strictly playing for Max, they definitely would've pulled him in first if they weren't already committed to the hard tire strategy. But Perez was ahead on track and got the pit priority. It’s fair game...
Just like in the US, where you dodged the question again about why Red Bull didn't give Max an extra point instead of Perez if he's really their guy. They had the chance, right?
But sure, let's keep ignoring that and stick to the fairy tales about what happened in the US...

It’s not about priority; it’s about using Perez as a guinea pig for Max...
Once they see how the tires are behaving for Perez, then they decide whether to put them on Max or not. They messed up by accidentally giving Perez the advantage...
But if Max had asked for the pits himself without any hesitation, he would've gotten it. ☕

Lisa Thomas3 said:I can't have a serious conversation with someone who thinks throwing an FP session at me as "proof" that a driver is actually faster during the weekend is a valid argument...🤦
It’s roughly the same level of logic as looking at preseason testing times and pretending you actually know what the order is going to look like. Are we going to have a serious conversation here, or are we just going to keep throwing around these childish arguments?...
Are we actually watching Formula 1 or what?
How many times in the last few seasons has Bottas actually clocked better times in FP1, FP2, or FP3—sometimes even through Q1 and Q2—only to have Hamilton absolutely smoke him in Q3 like he was nothing? Honestly, using that as an argument is just unbelievably stupid...

Even during Q1 and Q2, the top guys aren't exactly driving at their absolute limit. When you get to Q3—which is really the only part that matters—was Perez actually faster by that 0.037 in the first sector? Meanwhile, Max was putting down much faster times during those first two stints of the second round...
I'm saying it again: my common-sense takeaway is that in a pure qualifying session, Max would have ended up out front. People can draw their own conclusions. If you want to believe he would’ve cooked his tires in the third stint or slammed into a wall, go ahead—that's your business. I’ve stated my position: the most likely and logical scenario is that Max finishes ahead. That's it. I think we've exhausted this topic...

Just a quick summary: in the first stint, Perez was glued to Sainz's gearbox, and Max was stuck right behind Perez. Only Leclerc managed to pull away a bit. As for how fast the Red Bulls actually were, it's hard to say, but we know Perez was complaining over the radio about Sainz holding him up. We also saw evidence earlier in this thread that once Max pitted, he was driving faster than Leclerc during those crucial laps...
Basically, if Max had gone into the pits instead of Perez and everything else played out the same way, he would've easily stayed ahead of Perez and likely at least second—maybe even first depending on his pace. Sure, in that scenario, maybe Ferrari reacts differently or the whole thing shifts, but the point remains: it was obvious the inters were the better call right then, and whoever jumped on them first would come out on top. And Red Bull was pretty fair about calling Perez in first...
Bottom line: if Red Bull was strictly playing for Max, they definitely would've pulled him in first if they weren't already committed to the hard tire strategy. But Perez was ahead on track and got the pit priority. It’s fair game...
Just like in the US, where you dodged the question again about why Red Bull didn't give Max an extra point instead of Perez if he's really their guy. They had the chance, right?
But sure, let's keep ignoring that and stick to the fairy tales about what happened in the US...

So you think that's a fairy tale, huh?
When the team tells Perez on live TV to let Max past, and we're supposed to believe that's just a fairy tale? Give me a break. 🙏

I find myself wondering, quite sincerely, whether you will all feel even the slightest bit of embarrassment when the season finally draws to a close and you look back upon what you are writing right now?

We seriously need a separate thread just for Formula 1 conspiracy theories. Or maybe we should just move this whole discussion over to the Alternative sub-forum.

stormybadger8 said:Oh, you had "proof," sure. Plenty of lovely little proofs, didn't you? 🙂
The only "proof" you guys actually had was that Williams is slower than Red Bull. 🙂
Because Leclerc’s times while stuck behind a Williams that's holding him up are just as representative as Hamilton's times while trailing Alonso...

It’s not about priority; it’s about using Perez as a guinea pig for Max...
Once they see how the tires are behaving for Perez, then they decide whether to put them on Max or not. They messed up by accidentally giving Perez the advantage...
But if Max had asked for the pits himself without any hesitation, he would've gotten it. ☕

So you think that's a fairy tale, huh?
When the team tells Perez on live TV to let Max past, and we're supposed to believe that's just a fairy tale? Give me a break. 🙏

And you really think it was a coincidence that Max was significantly faster lap after lap than Checo?
What would they actually gain by having them fight on track, other than giving you a little thrill regardless of who wins? Because honestly, any of the three outcomes would lead to the same drama:

• If VER overtakes PER -> people will scream about how they told Checo to step aside before the race and how you can't expect anything better from a pathetic outfit like Red Bull.
• If PER keeps VER behind him -> the comments will be all about how VER is a total weakling and a complete fraud.
• If anything happens that causes a DNF for one or both drivers -> Red Bull are just idiots and nothing like a serious team like Mercedes because they're basically just a soda company with zero discipline, clearly shown by the fact they can't even manage their own drivers. And of course, Max gets labeled "Crashstappen" and an idiot just for good measure.

graniteharbor502 said:I find myself wondering, quite sincerely, whether you will all feel even the slightest bit of embarrassment when the season finally draws to a close and you look back upon what you are writing right now?

Who exactly should be embarrassed and why?
The people claiming Perez was faster than Max in Monaco 🤔

Since when did quoting a stat sheet and stating undeniable facts become something to be ashamed of?🤦

ruggedcyclist56 said:We seriously need a separate thread just for Formula 1 conspiracy theories. Or maybe we should just move this whole discussion over to the Alternative sub-forum.

And you really think it was a coincidence that Max was significantly faster lap after lap than Checo?
What would they actually gain by having them fight on track, other than giving you a little thrill regardless of who wins? Because honestly, any of the three outcomes would lead to the same drama:

• If VER overtakes PER -> people will scream about how they told Checo to step aside before the race and how you can't expect anything better from a pathetic outfit like Red Bull.
• If PER keeps VER behind him -> the comments will be all about how VER is a total weakling and a complete fraud.
• If anything happens that causes a DNF for one or both drivers -> Red Bull are just idiots and nothing like a serious team like Mercedes because they're basically just a soda company with zero discipline, clearly shown by the fact they can't even manage their own drivers. And of course, Max gets labeled "Crashstappen" and an idiot just for good measure.

They wouldn't have gained anything because Max would've just cruised right past him without breaking a sweat.
But the real issue isn't even about Max's blistering pace during that phase of the race... it starts way earlier, with the strategy call.
Max was flying because he was actually on a winning strategy, while Checo was stuck on that mediocre, losing one Red Bull handed to him. And then to top it all off, they basically screwed him by not having Max clear the way so Checo could jump Russell quickly.

ruggedcyclist56 said:We seriously need a separate thread just for Formula 1 conspiracy theories. Or maybe we should just move this whole discussion over to the Alternative sub-forum.

And you really think it was a coincidence that Max was significantly faster lap after lap than Checo?
What would they actually gain by having them fight on track, other than giving you a little thrill regardless of who wins? Because honestly, any of the three outcomes would lead to the same drama:

• If VER overtakes PER -> people will scream about how they told Checo to step aside before the race and how you can't expect anything better from a pathetic outfit like Red Bull.
• If PER keeps VER behind him -> the comments will be all about how VER is a total weakling and a complete fraud.
• If anything happens that causes a DNF for one or both drivers -> Red Bull are just idiots and nothing like a serious team like Mercedes because they're basically just a soda company with zero discipline, clearly shown by the fact they can't even manage their own drivers. And of course, Max gets labeled "Crashstappen" and an idiot just for good measure.

Honestly, we should probably just open a dedicated PDF for fans who love to hear themselves talk...🙂

So, wasn't Max significantly faster lap after lap than Checo?
What would fighting on track actually achieve besides giving you a little thrill regardless of the result?

Yeah, he was faster at that moment, no arguing there. 🤔
It’s also true that Red Bull really should have told Perez to move aside. The reality is Max has the better shot at the title, and he likely would've won that duel even if he had to force his way through...

But what's actually annoying is the nonsense coming from Max fans. They aren't just ignoring the fact that Perez is already being told to clear out this early in the season, they've even got people claiming Red Bull is handing wins to Perez. 🤦 😵

Lisa Thomas3 said:At the end of the day, Sergio Perez just doesn't have the depth to go toe-to-toe with Max Verstappen over a full season. He's not going to be a legitimate threat for the WDC...
The level of dominance Max Verstappen established over the last few seasons—where he was basically playing a different sport than everyone else—was never actually realistic. It’s something we’ve never seen before in the history of the sport. At the end of the day, you have to account for track conditions; some circuits just favor certain drivers more than others...
Perez is a solid driver, but he’s up against the toughest competition out there. He knows it, and anyone with half a brain—including the folks over at Red Bull Racing—knows it too...
Even this season proves it. The fact that Perez is trailing by "only" 15 points despite having fewer DNFs than Max—and considering the team handed him the win in Monaco instead of giving it to Max—isn't an argument for them being equals. If anything, it proves the exact opposite...😁
So, sure, if his strategy relies on Max picking up five more DNFs when he hasn't had a single one, then fine—maybe he can still dream about the title. But I’m not convinced that’s exactly brilliant math. And what does playing second fiddle at Red Bull actually get him? Getting kicked out of the team (with or without a contract)? What, is Ferrari going to swoop in and hire him just to spite their own roster of jokers? Even that doesn't seem like a solid plan; as much as Ferrari might be fed up with their current drivers, they aren't about to poach a number two driver from a direct rival... 😁
Honestly, he’d be an idiot to do anything other than play ball. He should just take whatever wins the circumstances throw his way—like right now in Monaco—and call it a day. There’s zero chance he lands a seat as the number one driver at another top-tier team at his age, and he simply can't compete with Max Verstappen. Maybe, if he stays in line, Max decides to move on eventually, leaving Perez to inherit the number one spot along with a much weaker teammate. If Red Bull Racing stays strong, that’s his only shot at a title. If we're talking about any realistic scenario where Perez actually wins a championship, that's the only one...

I usually avoid arguing with this troll, but I can't just let this nonsense sit there unrefuted. If someone doesn't set the record straight, people end up swallowing these ridiculous claims and passing them around like truth.
Look, at the moment those "team orders" were supposedly happening, Max was nearly a second and a half faster than Sergio Perez on track. It’s a safe bet he would have shaken him off quite easily, so all this math regarding point gaps is complete nonsense.
In reality, it wasn't even a classic team order situation. It was just about efficiency—avoiding wasting precious seconds on an internal battle that had a predictable outcome anyway, especially since they were on totally different strategies and running at completely different paces.
For anyone peddling this stupidity, the ultimate proof is this: Red Bull didn't pull Max into the pits for a fastest lap right after Sergio Perez, even though they easily could have. Everything about this is clear and logical.

It's about as logical as assuming Max Verstappen would have stayed ahead of Sergio Perez in Monaco qualifying if things had just stayed clean until the end. But hey, if some people want to act dense and argue over nothing, more power to them...

I don't know what kind of fan goggles you're wearing to come up with something that ridiculous. 🤦

It’s strange how a seven-time world champion—essentially the GOAT—can't manage to overtake an aging legend like Alonso, who is arguably at least 3.5 times less talented than the greatest to ever do it...

who would've thought
keep hoping, I guess

swiftmaker12 said:It’s strange how a seven-time world champion—essentially the GOAT—can't manage to overtake an aging legend like Alonso, who is arguably at least 3.5 times less talented than the greatest to ever do it...

who would've thought
keep hoping, I guess

And all this is happening in Monaco, where even a massive trailer could probably squeeze past on the track! 🙂

swiftmaker12 said:It’s strange how a seven-time world champion—essentially the GOAT—can't manage to overtake an aging legend like Alonso, who is arguably at least 3.5 times less talented than the greatest to ever do it...

who would've thought
keep hoping, I guess

Wow, talk about trolling. ☕

Poets are a true wonder in this world.
This is my little way of trolling—watching a ten-page debate unfold about what might have happened if three drivers hadn't triggered that red flag during Q3... it’s basically a scientific seminar at this point.
That’s peak trolling right there—when certain folks on this forum start projecting their own wishes onto undeniable facts.

But what actually went down? That's where we naive souls sit around wondering how things could even work this way. Now *that* is the real trolling.

Just a slight misalignment of values, I suppose.

Seriously, just turn on your AC already—you guys are all acting way too sensitive about this heat 😁