The Armada

ironscout10 said:Honestly, there isn't much point in trying to explain it—the numbers just don't add up, even if you look at the rest of the country...

Well, maybe that holds true for smaller cliques, but when you look at the big groups—and especially the hardcore supporters—the math actually checks out, and the reality is pretty clear. The main thing is that these guys really only show up in force for the massive rivalry games against their biggest rivals. You don't see them filling up the stands for the regular matchups—the north or south stands stay pretty quiet. Meanwhile, those fans from the West Coast tend to show up in great numbers even for minor games, and their turnout for away matches is easily the strongest in the nation.

Jose Ruiz5 said:Maybe with small groups, sure, but with the BBB—especially the Wildcats—the numbers don't lie. They speak for themselves. The only thing is, the BBB really only shows up for the big derby against the local rivals. It’s not like there's a massive fan base for every single game, North or South stands. But when it comes to those guys from the coast, their turnout at smaller games is actually solid. And obviously, the stadium is packed during the derby. When the Wildcats go away for an away game, they're easily the biggest group out there.

Exactly. Like, if you have 200 people at home, that’s basically the same energy as when the Wildcats show up with 2,000.
It's kind of ridiculous to even act surprised. You have millions of people in the US claiming to be die-hard fans of a team like the Cowboys (or just look at the population of a major city like NYC), yet the average attendance at Central Park's stadium is barely 3,000. And the boys over at the local club? Maybe 300. What percentage is that? Don't even bother doing the math. It's embarrassing.

I mean, I'm not saying this excuses the Armada's performance lately—they aren't playing at the level they were last season—but hey, it's a Wednesday. Unattractive opponent, the club is stuck mid-table with nowhere to go... nothing surprising there.
But you have to ask the Cleveland folks: when was the last time Santa Monica was actually full? I honestly can't remember. And it's not even a massive stadium for a city the size of Cleveland. There have been plenty of chances—cup finals, intense derbies—but it's always just 6,000 or 7,000 people, and half of them are visiting fans anyway.

Honestly, none of it makes sense. Our whole scene, the sport, the league, the country... it's all just a mess. 😁

Drew Perez said:but I have to ask those of you living in Cleveland... when was the last time Santa Monica was actually packed? Honestly, I can't even wrap my head around it, especially since it isn't exactly a massive stadium for a city the size of Cleveland. It’s not like we haven't had the chances either—you know, cup finals or those high-stakes matchups against the big teams from LA or New York—but it always seems to hover around six or seven thousand people, and even then, maybe a couple thousand of those are just away fans...

Looking back at how things used to be with Cleveland SC when I first started heading out to the matches, today feels like a total dream by comparison. There really is this growing momentum with the local supporter groups here, a real sense of the community expanding... and honestly, the future looks bright because of us. Things are going to turn around. You'll see...

Jose Ruiz5 said:maybe in smaller groups, but when you look at the BBB or the Wildcats, the numbers don't lie. The only issue is that the BBB really only shows up for the derby against the big rival. It’s not like there are regular fans filling up the east or west stands. Meanwhile, the folks from the coast show up in great numbers even for small games. And the derby stadium? Packed. When it comes to away games, the Wildcats are by far the largest group numerically.

You might want to double-check those claims. The Wildcats might have been smaller this season—they definitely were in the past—but fundamentally, they are the most massive group. As for the BBB, they aren't even showing up to the derbies anymore, let alone traveling through Europe. Take a look at the attendance stats for Central Park; the city has nearly a million people plus fans coming in from other states. Even if the north stands at Central Park or the Rose Bowl are full, anyone with sense knows that isn't all just BBB and Wildcats. For us, the last time the stadium was truly packed was back in 1999 during the game against the Red Sox, when the stadium had just been renovated with seating for about 12,000 people. Before that, we had over 20,000 people show up in the spring for the Indianapolis game. There aren't many of us. We all know we tend to turn out for an "interesting" match or an away game, and nobody is running away from that. It feels somewhat hypocritical for anyone in America to try and call someone else out for it. Everyone should probably look at their own backyard before commenting on ours...

Drew Perez said:but honestly, I have a question for the folks from Cleveland... when was the last time Santa Monica actually had a full house?

If I recall correctly, I think the last time was back when we played the Red Sox in '99... and I guess I’ll just say it, because I still can't wrap my head around why the stadium wasn't packed for the Cup final against the Wildcats...

goldenbear17 said:I just can't wrap my head around why the stadium wasn't packed for the Cup final against the big rivals from the south...

Look, they’re all soft. Just screaming at their TV sets from the couch, sipping beers and staying comfortable... total comfort seekers.

And honestly, I know plenty of people who just completely lost interest in MLS and everything surrounding it after that whole mess back in '99...

Larry Rivera83 said:Just a bunch of softies. Screaming at TV boxes with antennas. Lazy fans who just want their beer and comfy seats. Total comfort seekers.

Also, I know plenty of people who completely lost interest in the MLS and everything tied to it after that 1999 season.

Man, forget a league where you aren't even allowed to be the top dog. About half the folks in Cleveland stay home because of that. Our biggest turnout in recent years was that Cleveland SC vs. LA Galaxy game—I think it was 2-4 back in 2008 with maybe 9,000 people, but that’s beside the point. You could really see our numbers back in 2006, when a massive crowd headed out to Varaždin, or even a year before that when like 30,000 people showed up for the victory parade in town.

Stop lying, seriously. There were at least 2,000 people out there in Cleveland, and if you want to claim there were 30,000 people in the whole city, you can just forget about me right now because that’s nonsense. I guess the point is just that a massive amount of people always have their own little "reasons" for skipping games, but most of those excuses are just incredibly stupid...

Drew Perez said:Exactly. Look, having 200 people watching a game at home is actually a decent turnout—it's like when the Wildcats have 2,000 fans in the stands.
It’s kind of ridiculous to act surprised. You’ve got millions of people in the US claiming they support major teams like the Yankees (or just look at the population of NYC), yet the average attendance at Central Park is barely 3,000, and the guys playing in the local parks get maybe 300. If you try to calculate that percentage, it's honestly embarrassing how low it goes.
I mean, that doesn't excuse the Armada edition, which isn't nearly as good as their stuff from earlier this season (it feels more like last year's quality), but hey, it's a Wednesday, the opponent is boring, and the club is stuck mid-table with nowhere to go... nothing surprising there.
But here's a question for the Cleveland locals: when was the last time Santa Monica was actually packed? I honestly can't remember, and it's not even that huge a stadium for a city like Cleveland. It's not like there weren't opportunities either—cup finals, heated derbies against the big rivals—but you still see maybe 6,000 or 7,000 people, and half of those are visiting fans.

Basically, none of it makes sense. Our whole scene, the sport, the league, the country—everything is just a mess. 😁

Where are you getting that from? Please, tell me. Even if you look at the number of people from the South living in NYC, there's easily at least 350,000 of them.
And don't get cocky with us; you all know this is just temporary hype and you'll be right back to your old ways soon enough.
http://img48.imageshack.us/i/hajos00722pv.jpg/

goldenbear17 said:Stop lying. I know for a fact there were at least 2,000 people out there in Indianapolis. And if you want to claim there were 30,000 people in the whole city? You can take that straight to the bank, because it’s total nonsense. The real issue is that everyone has their own little "special reasons" for skipping the games, and honestly, most of those excuses are just plain stupid.

Wait, who even are you?

Anonymous said:Where are you getting those numbers? Come on, tell me. First off, if there are a million people in a place like NYC, at least 350,000 of them are probably from the coast.
And hey, don't get cocky. You all know this is just a temporary high. You'll be right back to how things were soon enough.
http://img48.imageshack.us/i/hajos00722pv.jpg/

I was thinking about the total population of the US, honestly. I know how many transplants live in NYC from all over the country. I only mentioned the city size because someone brought up the scale of Cleveland—and even in Cleveland, not everyone supports Cleveland SC.

As for that picture... look, I'm not a Wildcat, but I get it. You never really know how things will shift or what the next generation will look like in five years. But even back when the BBB were dominating everything, there wasn't as much of a gap between you guys and the bottom feeders as there is now that they're absolutely tearing you apart.

And here you go—the crowd that nitpicks everything, complains about everyone, and just loves to talk trash. You lot, who act like the self-appointed moral compass of the American supporter scene, finally have an excuse for why you’re so miserable, right?
Is this "ultra" behavior?
Or is this some groundbreaking, original concept you all just cooked up?
The first group gets called out, and we’re all supposed to realize this is just a repeat of the 2011 mess? We clearly aren't seeing it yet.
Right, because it's totally hypocritical to call people out for stuff... but when you guys are the ones doing it first and then trying to explain away why it's "hypocritical," I honestly don't even know what to call that.

🙏🙏🙏

Sarah Garcia6 said:So, for those of you who spend your lives nitpicking everything and constantly attacking everyone... you self-proclaimed moral authorities of the American supporter scene, I suppose you finally have your excuses for why you're so insignificant...
is that "ultra" enough?
or is this some groundbreaking, original thought you just cooked up?
The first ones to act out, and yet we'll probably hear this was the "ultra" way back in 2011 and we just weren't aware of it...
Yes, it's hypocritical to call people out for things like that... but when the very people doing it start explaining away their own hypocrisy, I honestly don't know what to call it...

🙏🙏🙏

Your group, after twenty-two years of existence, will likely never grasp the concept of being "ultra"... not because you lack the capacity, but because you were never taught to think that way. Debates over who qualifies as "ultra" and who doesn't mostly fall under the category of fan folklore and petty bickering...

In America, the term "ultra" is barely even understood by most fans. Discussing supporter numbers versus actually embodying an "ultra" mentality are two entirely different matters, which is why you missed the point. Personally, I can name at least ten reasons why we haven't achieved that ideal ultra mentality, and very few of them have anything to do with our numbers. I would argue that in America, it isn't tied to quantity either...

We can discuss that in another thread, as thinking like an "ultra" isn't easy, especially given the current climate in America and our league...

I swear, I want to take every single one of you malicious trolls who showed up just to ruin our biggest home game of the season...

Look, this is the season for the Armada's comeback, and from here on out, we’re only moving up. Sure, the club is sitting pretty low in the MLS standings right now, but we’re actually a much stronger squad than we were last year when the results looked better... But lately? Over the last few seasons, it’s been pathetic. We haven't seen the pyrotechnics, the choreographies, or even the decent volume in the stands anymore... It's just gone. 👍

bluewalker92 said:I hope all you toxic losers who showed up just to ruin our biggest home game of the season have a terrible time...

This is officially the season of the Armada's comeback, and from here on out, we’re only moving up. Sure, the club is a complete disaster in the MLS standings right now, but honestly? We’re actually stronger than we were last year when the results looked way better... Over the last few seasons, the energy has just tanked—no more pyrotechnics, no more massive choreos, none of that deafening noise we used to bring... 👍

THAT SUMS IT UP PERFECTLY...we're getting stronger by the day while you guys just get more pathetic, nothing but ego and empty talk. The BBB fans have had such miserable attendance in the North Stand lately—it's been absolute trash for a long-ass time, aside from maybe a couple of random games where even commenting on it feels redundant... That whole group is slowly crawling back to their old "glory days" after last season, and if I remember correctly, the last time the stadium was actually packed wasn't for the Red Sox, it was for Cleveland SC less than a year ago during the Armada's 22nd anniversary. It was absolutely slammed—literally every single seat was filled, except for those tiny little rocks separating the home and away fans...

If we’re being totally honest here, the Armada probably numbers around 300 people—at least, if you ask me.
The rest? Well, they just don't carry the same weight in my book... amen.
It’s true that other groups deal with this too—ups and downs, really—it’s all just a matter of circumstance, I suppose.
Come on, everyone, let's stop with the hypocrisy... I think this forum is starting to get to you.🙂

Right now, there are like 300 die-hard fans out there absolutely burning the midnight oil for this club... but man, you have to think about how many generations used to pack out the west stands back in the 90s and early 2000s. And I’m not even talking about the hardcore derby crazies—I mean the regular folks who showed up to basically every single match. That’s the group everyone is actually mourning. Where do they all go after dedicating half their lives to the team? Life just happens—maybe it's a bad run of luck, getting hitched, having kids, or just plain old adulthood pulling you away from the stadium. They just vanish into thin air.

ironscout10 said:Sure, there are maybe 300 die-hard fans burning themselves out at every single game right now... but think about the sheer volume of people who used to fill the stands back in the 90s and early 2000s—not just the hardcore derby crowd, but the regular folks who showed up almost every week... that’s what really stings, I suppose... seeing where those people went after dedicating half their lives to this club... whether they were swept away by bad luck, marriage, kids, or just the general grind of life... or something else entirely...

In my book, if you weren't part of the original Armada, you don't get to claim the name—and besides, where did they all go?
And why does it even matter.
Also, please—for the love of everything—stop using phrases like "a thorn in everyone's side" in this thread; it honestly gives me the creeps.
Don't start something you can't finish!

bluewalker92 said:Screw all you haters who showed up just to ruin our biggest home game of the season...

This is the season of the Armada's comeback—we’re only going up from here. Sure, the club is sitting low in the MLS standings, but we’re actually stronger than last year when the stats looked better... Over the last few seasons, there hasn't been this much pyrotechnics, this much choreography, or this much noise... 👍

Did I even bring up that specific game? No, I just touched on the hypocrisy you guys seem so obsessed with.
I felt like I was being interrogated for saying something minor... but hey, I know you're an emotional type...😉
Everything you've written since then just proves how two-faced you really are—total double standards.
Hard work goes unappreciated, nobody moves forward, everyone's a zero... the only one looking at this realistically is Opatijac, mostly because he actually understands what it takes to put in the effort... if you don't get that, you shouldn't be commenting...👍

We really are the biggest hypocrites here—us members of the Armada! Drko is actually right on this one...
Drko’s just acting out because we gave him the opening to do so.