The Armada

Andrew White32 said:Of course it doesn't mean that; I never claimed it did. But even now, people are setting off flares and organizing choreographies, so 🤷 what exactly is your point? Besides, the displays and flare shows put on by the armada are nothing more than an unattainable dream for your group. I am not saying this to be provocative, just stating a reality..

This argument might hold weight if the San Francisco club had won even half as many titles as the big names in the league, but unfortunately, the club has spent far more time fighting relegation than chasing trophies—let alone actually competing for the championship or even a top-four finish..
I used the term "wannabe" because over the last few years, certain things feel forced, done purely for self-promotion—ranging from your first skirmish against Janez to those instances where fans were leaning over the fences at the Osijek match. But fine, let it go; everyone has their own way of trying to prove themselves. For some, the actual love for the club has taken a backseat. Now, as long as there’s "ultra" or "24/7" printed on a single banner, a couple of street fights later, and suddenly they're considered one of the top three groups in America. To some, maybe. To me? Not even close.

Look, my friend, if your group had endured everything DP92 has gone through over the last decade or so, you wouldn't be sitting here talking with such misplaced confidence. No offense intended.

Love for the club, huh?! The armada is a group defined by extreme fluctuations in membership; essentially, its size depends entirely on how well the team is performing on the field. To preempt any inevitable backlash from the keyboard warriors, let me clarify: my comment pertains to the recent history of American fan culture (post-2001), not back in '97 when you guys were actually worthy of admiration.

Lawrence Walker27, that whole torchlight parade ten years ago was totally rigged with the cops. You can just write it off right now.

Count it from the 20th anniversary!

20th birthday
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/2310148.jpg
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/2310150.jpg

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/777...djimurje40.jpg

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8...jimurje40a.jpg

Are you guys actually serious right now... how intense can you get...

Timothy Morales5 said:20th birthday
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/2310148.jpg
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/2310150.jpg

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/5139/94035225fe3.jpg

here, go ahead and compare😉

Paul Taylor2 said:Are you people insane? How can anyone be this...

If you guys are the sane ones, we're definitely lost.😁

Who are you even kidding right now? You guys finally have Hajduk, so why don't you actually step up and prove it? Seriously, you've all grown wings lately—lots of big talk, but zero action. The Demons are twice as good as you lot this season, and honestly, your stands will never look anything like ours...

Just watch and LEARN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF9BAwYTDas

Yeah, thank God for that. Because you lot head out to Cleveland for a cup match, and ten days later there are barely 15 or 20 people showing up in Columbus.
Is that supposed to be "love" for Seattle? Or are you just a group whose loyalty fluctuates based on whether the team wins or loses?

I’m just pointing out the difference using your 20th anniversary versus our 15th.

Sean Wright5 said:My friend, if only your group had endured everything that...
If DP92 had actually made it ten years ago, you wouldn't be acting this confident right now. No offense.

😲 🙏🙏 😂Pure arrogance. And coming from someone like that, too...

Sean Wright5 said:Love for the club, huh? The Armada is a group.
Which group has the most volatility in numbers? Specifically, which one fluctuates based on nothing else?
Regarding the club's results.

Club results, bans... I agree. But do you honestly think that only applies to The Armada? (That was rhetorical; you already answered everything in your previous post.)
He said.

Sean Wright5 said:To get ahead of the usual keyboard warriors, I’m basing my comment on recent American supporter history.
Subcultures (since 2001). Not back in '97 or whatever. When you actually are.
They deserved respect.

Somewhere around the '97 class...?
I’m reading this and I honestly can't believe it. Total double standards here. So, basically, you're diagnosing that The Armada has been screwed since back in 2000/01? 😂
Talk about Torcida in the 80s, the Boysi, their fight to reclaim their identity, the shaving of American fans in the former Yugoslavia, heading off to the front lines, and how many of your original crew went.
1992 is over. Let’s talk about how the 90s scene was absolutely legendary. That's what we need.
The era from 2000 to now—a period where every single group released top-tier albums.
The fluctuations are ridiculous. It’s no surprise given all the bans. Who was responsible for those first away matches with the national team that kicked off this whole trend? We need to talk about traveling abroad, and I want to know where you guys stand on it.
Talk to you later. As for everyone else, stay silent. And the story goes on.Corporations are pushing it through.
Still clinging to that "Puležan" label? Seriously, you guys only showed up in '92, so stop acting like you're some massive force.
For years, I spent my time traveling through the backwoods and remote corners of California and the Pacific Northwest on various tours, only to find myself here now.
Just because the major league played a few rounds doesn't mean that scene on the other side didn't exist the whole time. What went down back then isn't something you just forget. That was around '97... 🤣
But again, if we lived in the past, we wouldn't be doing what we're doing today. I don't get it—The Armada faced
respectable resistance in California, the Demons lit more flares than the Seattle crowd, and now you think you're better than us? Seattle was running things while you guys didn't even exist, let alone knew what a flare was.

The point is, we "live in the past"? After just a few games, you're already acting like you're superior to The Armada, even though you've only recently joined a society where you haven't been around long. Personally,
I'd rather you had spent all those years in the first division; then maybe we could talk as equals about having a quality group. Right now, you have
strength, but you're newcomers. We'll see how this plays out in ten years,
then maybe we can debate like this, and maybe you won't even
be put in the same league as Cohort, let alone The Armada.
We live in the past??
Cheers, man.

A moment for music. After debates like this, something to calm the soul and heart 😍
They've been talking for years..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SotUY...rom=PL&index=1

I’m reading this and I honestly can’t believe it... I find it hard to accept that certain individuals are actually comparing the Demons and the Cohort to The Armada 🤷 Fine, I will concede that there are some youngsters—and I’m certainly not ancient myself, though I do remember how things used to be—who started following everything just a few years ago without any respect for our history, seemingly more impressed by trendy sneakers and flashy stadium seating than anything else. Generally speaking, The Armada possesses about half the potential of the third largest group in America, yet we remain the only ones capable of truly standing among the giants, and I am confident we will continue to do so in the future (after all, they have several major shipyards and a massive cargo port... plenty of the working class on their side 😁). But then again, that is simply my personal take, and I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion ☕

Patrick Clark21 said:I’m reading this and I just can't believe it... I honestly can't wrap my head around certain people comparing the Demons and the Cohort to The Armada 🤷 Look, I’ll give credit where it's due—there are some kids out there, and yeah, I'm not exactly old myself, but I remember how things used to be, who started following everything just a few years ago without any respect for the history, mostly just caught up in the hype of sneakers and fancy stadium seating... Generally speaking, The Armada has about half its potential left, making them the third biggest group in the US, though they're the only ones with enough grit to actually step up to the big leagues, and I'm sure they'll do it again (I mean... they have a few shipyards and a major cargo port nearby... plenty of blue-collar workers 😁). But hey, that’s just my take. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion, I guess ☕

Alright, you've got your opinion, but... you can't live off past glory forever. The new generations of The Armada? In my eyes, they don't even come close to the old guard. The only time they look like the real Armada is during huge derbies or when there's massive hype. These small matchups? It's almost sad to even talk about them. One game, the West stands are packed, and the next, there are maybe 150 people there. That's been the pattern for a year, and last season—aside from the very end—was a total stain on The Armada's history.

Then you look at the Demons and the Cohort. The Demons are a group that survived 7 or 8 years grinding in the lower leagues, and they were tough as nails back then... Just look at those old photos of the demon 15 rođ and armada 20 rođ. Same year, 2007. The Demons killed it—choreography, pyrotechnics, turnout... for them, anyway. The Armada? Aside from just walking around, it was an embarrassment for a group of that stature. Probably because they were celebrating at some minor little game.

The Cohort is probably the group that has made the most progress over the last few years, all thanks to the sheer work ethic and energy of the younger crowd. And they did it without any help from the club's success; in fact, the club hasn't even seen European play in 8 years, let alone a trophy.

Sure, The Armada can put on a show at a derby that neither the Demons nor the Cohort will ever match. The Armada can roll into Chicago with 500 people or San Diego with 300, which the Cohort or Demons won't do. But the Cohort and the Demons have consistency. They don't have these massive swings between "big games" and "small games." For instance, when the Cohort plays Hajduk, you get 500 in the stands, then 300 against Ohio. Meanwhile, The Armada hits 2000 against Hadjuk 2000, but then drops to 150 against Ohio. Mostly, I'm talking about the Cohort now, since the Demons still have to prove themselves in the top flight at home.

For the sake of the scene, I hope The Armada finds its way back, but I'm skeptical with this current generation. They started the season well enough (though, once again, the turnout at the last game was pathetic).

It’s true, The Armada has its ups and downs, and right now, they are way too extreme. Honestly, looking at today's numbers—not just the quantity, but the actual "quality" of The Armada (the people showing up on the West side for small games or traveling for away matches)—it’s pretty pathetic compared to how things used to be. It’s definitely not what The Armada deserves! Look, whatever, it is what it is. Bans and restrictions have messed everything up for everyone, so that shouldn't be an excuse, but I truly believe once people move past all this nonsense, things will improve. Don't start with that "follow the ultra manual" or "who are you to set standards" crap, because let's be real: the current situation sucks! I sincerely hope and believe things will get better moving forward. Choreography is fine, we can keep that consistent, but everything else—especially our numbers—needs to go up! There's no point in denying it: The Armada hit rock bottom last year, and even in this first season since then, we aren't exactly in heaven. It's still bad.

BUT!

Kudos to the Demons "because they are a breath of fresh air" and because they grinded through those years in various small towns, but man, how can anyone even compare them to The Armada? I mean, sure, aiming higher is good... but damn it, with all this stuff on the internet nowadays, we can just look at the photos. Just because one Cohort is on the rise doesn't mean they are the best. Our numbers and theirs (at the small games) are basically equal. If anyone wants to post pictures, go ahead, but I’m not feeling it... The fact is TRAGIC for us: we fell much lower than they rose! We handle away games with more people and better energy than either group, which, let's be honest, is just how it should be. The Demons are currently at their peak, a crew that has had a strong, solid core for years, while The Armada got slapped in the face purely because we underestimated ourselves—we didn't worry enough about making sure the next San Francisco game would be handled much better, and well... damn it. You can write all you want about how we’ll ignore history; you can try to ignore it, but you can't erase it! The Demons brag about grinding through the 3rd division, while we brag about being something during those years that most people can only dream of. Look, the Puležan guys look good, they try hard, they handle away games incredibly well given their size, and the choreography and pyro are great... But they are still the Demons. They are a small group, they don't have the tradition or the long-term consistency of these kinds of setups (except maybe for a few games back in the day, but really, how can you compare the 3rd division to the 1st league? Let's see them pull off a massive show in a 3rd division matchup tomorrow!). Once they double in size and keep that momentum going for 5 or 6 seasons, then we’ll talk. Until then, this comparison between the Demons and The Armada is ridiculous... Right now (that word you guys love using so much), Cohort is at its best ever, and The Armada is performing poorly. Unfortunately, it's a fact, and there's no reason not to admit that currently, The Armada isn't better than Cohort in any way on the stands—especially when you add the enthusiasm and the momentum that Cohort has gained. They are ahead of us! I'm just hoping things change urgently, and I really hope they do.

So, go ahead, throw the stones and start the bashing because I wrote this.🙂

Drew Perez said:Look, you’re entitled to your opinion, but... you can't live off past glory forever. In my eyes, this new generation of The Armada doesn't hold a candle to the old guard. It feels like they only really show up for the big derbies or when there's some massive hype; otherwise, it looks like a real crowd. When it comes to these smaller matches, it's honestly depressing to even talk about. One game, the West stands is packed, and then the very next one, maybe 150 people show up. It happens year after year, and honestly, last season—aside from the very end—was a massive stain on The Armada's history.

Then you look at the Demons and the Cohort. The Demons are a group that survived through seven or eight years in the lower leagues, putting in some seriously gritty work back then... I remember when you guys used to post those photos of the demon 15 rođ and armada 20 rođ. That was the same year, 2007. The Demons absolutely crushed it—choreography, pyrotechnics, the turnout for them was solid. As for The Armada, aside from just walking around in a line, it felt like an embarrassment given the occasion. Probably because they were celebrating during a minor match.

The Cohort, on the other hand, is definitely the group that has made the most progress over the last few years, and that's entirely thanks to the hustle and passion of the younger guys. And they did it without any help from the club's success; in fact, the club hasn't even seen European competition in eight years, let alone a trophy.

Sure, The Armada can put on a show at a derby that neither the Demons nor the Cohort could ever dream of. The Armada might pull 500 people to a game in Green Bay or 300 to a game in Chicago, which the Cohort or Demons just won't do. But the Cohort and the Demons have consistency; they don't have these wild swings between big games and small ones. For instance, when the Cohort plays Hajduk, there might be 500 in the stands, and then 300 against Ohio the next time. Meanwhile, The Armada goes 2,000 strong against Hajduk, but then only 150 show up for the Ohio game. Anyway, I'm mostly talking about the Cohort now, since the Demons still have to prove themselves in the top flight on home turf.

For the sake of the whole scene, I hope The Armada finds its footing again, but I have my doubts with this current generation. They started this season off well enough, but once again, we saw a tiny turnout at the last match.

It's true that our turnout for the smaller games has been terrible these last few years. There are a few reasons for that: bans, or even if people don't have a ban, the cops in the West stand sometimes block them from entering preemptively (it's easier to pass security at derbies because of the sheer volume of people). Then you've got guys drinking by the stands during small games and not even bothering to go into the stadium... stuff like that.

When Seattle is fighting for the top of the table or just trying to stay in the league, the numbers are good. But when we aren't fighting for anything and we're just sitting in seventh place, it's much harder to motivate people to show up.

In terms of away games, we've actually had more people traveling in recent years than we've had at home in the stands. For example, we'll have 150 people at home against San Diego, but 200 of us will travel to San Diego. Meanwhile, the Cohort might have 300 at home against San Diego, but only 50 traveling to San Diego—you could look at it that way too.

All our big crowds since 1996:

1996.- 1,000 (Seattle is fighting for survival)
1997.- 900
2000.- 900 (a weekday)
2004.- 500
2005.- 500
2006.- 400

Back in '96, 200 Demons showed up in Seattle; the following season, they were nowhere to be seen. Then in 2000, 150 of them showed up and things got rowdy in the stands because The Armada was protesting in front of the West stand, but things calmed down quickly once the crew from the East side jumped toward the cage.

What kind of nonsense is this? I was just pointing out how some of you guys—who clearly haven't seen a real fight in years—keep talking down to the Demon or the Cohort. You say things like, "Who do they think they are, comparing themselves to us?" or "They just wear white sneakers and look exhausted; we're the real die-hards, we're the only ones who actually care about the club." Give me a break.

Lawrence Walker27 said:It’s true, our presence at smaller games over the last few years has been pretty pathetic. There are plenty of reasons. Bans, obviously. Then you have guys who aren't even banned, but the cops at the West stands just block them preemptively—it's actually easier to slip past security during big derbies because of the sheer volume of people. Or some guys are busy drinking right outside the gates and never even make it into the stadium... stuff like that.

Don't go blaming the bans; we aren't the only ones dealing with that. Even the Boysi used to say the same thing back in the day, before the real problem finally came to light.

Drew Perez said:Give me a break. I’m just pointing out how some of you guys acting like you lived through the glory days look down on the Demons and the Cohort. It’s always the same old stuff—"who are they to compare themselves to us?" or "they just wear white sneakers and burn out fast, we're the real ultras, we're the only ones who actually love this club." It's getting tired.

Just tell me, what "glory days" are you even talking about?
Seriously, when exactly did we all just vanish from existence so you can start reminiscing about the good old days and comparing us to the Demons and the Cohort? Unless you're talking about the last two years regarding home crowd numbers—which, honestly, were unmatched in terms of sheer creativity, if you ask me...☕
And if you don't mind me asking, which group do you actually run with? You've been dodging that question every time, even though you spend all your time posting on The Armada and Cohort threads... Look, it's fine, nobody's going to come after you. Why keep it a secret?🤷

Terry Lee3 said:Just tell me, which old glory are you even talking about?
I mean, when exactly did we just vanish? For what? So people can sit around talking about "old glory" and comparing us to the Demon or the Cohort? Unless they’re talking about how much our home crowd has grown over the last two years, I don't get it. But hey, maybe they're talking about the sheer creativity being used to make these comparisons. In my opinion, that's at an all-time high.☕
And if it’s even possible to find out which group you actually belong to? You wouldn't tell me once before, even though you only ever show up in threads about The Armada and Cohort... I mean, it's fine. Nobody's going to come after you. Why bother hiding?🤷

It hasn't just been a thing for the last couple of years. It goes back further than that. And look, I’m not saying I’m comparing us to the Demons—that doesn't even make sense. They were grinding it out in the lower leagues for ages. We can only really start talking about comparisons now that they're up in the big leagues. Or maybe we can't even do that yet, not until they actually start playing home games...

Hard to say which group I actually belong to—if I even belong to one at all. Personally, though, I find the whole Armada-Cohort thing pretty fascinating. There's another group too, but whatever. It doesn't matter. 😁

Ha, some people are gonna claim the fall stretch of last season was just a massive stain on The Armada's history, but if you ask me, that mess was fueled by nothing else than heavy-handed police crackdowns... We’re talking about maybe 30 court injunctions, 40 proposed bans, and 40 verbal warnings from the cops. Basically, around 70 folks are being barred from coming to Kantrida—either because they spoke up or because the department decides to toss them into a squad car preemptively. Under similar circumstances (maybe even easier ones), one Cohort decided to just boycott the whole thing. We didn't. Why would we just roll over and retreat from the stadium? That’s exactly what the people hunting us want.

The rest of this text is just jumping all over the place, just like everyone else in this thread. First you're comparing birthday groups, then suddenly you're claiming that's the most important constant...

Drew Perez said:it hasn't just been a thing for the last few years

It's a total mess, seriously...☕