Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

It’s hitting theaters in the US this summer and honestly? It looks incredible... basically, they built it right off the game, but the whole story kicks off 20 years later... man, I really hope I'm still around to see it...........😲

I guess you could call this 'old news'...

I watched the trailer and, honestly, it looks pretty promising. It feels like Square Enix is finally trying to wash away the absolute disaster that was FF:TSW.

But then again, will we actually even get a chance to see this in theaters here in the States? Hmm... I really have to wonder. 🤔

I’m just praying to God they don't hand this over to the same crew that handled the first FF movie—that was a total train wreck, especially with that over-the-top, pretentious soundtrack they kept shoving down our throats.

So, I checked out the second official trailer today... and honestly? It looks incredible. Like, seriously good. 🙏

What really stands out to me is that they aren't forcing that same old engine they used back in FF:TSW. I mean, look, the folks over at Square Enix have definitely stepped up their game lately—just look at AniMatrix or "Final Flight of the Osiris"—but at the end of the day, the soul of Final Fantasy isn't just about stacking a bunch of flashy visual effects 😉

The animation is top-tier, though. I have to give them credit there. They’re leaning into that modern CG style you see in high-end anime productions, but somehow they've dialed it up to like, ten times the intensity.

Hmm... I mean, didn't Square Enix basically tank after that whole disaster with FF:TSW? 🤔

Richard Hernandez13 said:Hmm... but didn't Square go downhill after that whole FF:TSW disaster?🤔

🙂

I think you might have mixed things up a bit... Square isn't failing as a game developer; it's just that after the TSW mess, they decided to stop messing around with movies and shut down that specific subsidiary.

That said, Advent Children is a co-production with Enix, which is another massive, heavyweight player in the gaming industry.

As far as TSW goes, I honestly feel like the biggest mistake was letting the Square team get complacent and allowing way too much Hollywood influence to bleed into the project.

I really hope they don't screw it up this time.

Beyond that, there’s another side to this. For a lot of people, FF VII is basically the best FF ever made, so there's going to be a huge drive to see what happens next to those characters in theaters. The chances of them tripping up seem much lower than they were with TSW, where they had to invent an entirely new story from scratch. With AC, they already have a fantastic foundation to work from.

And we shouldn't overlook the massive potential for re-releasing the game and all the various merchandise that comes along with it.

Adam Wright56 said:🙂

I think there might be a little mix-up here... Square isn't really an active game developer anymore; they just decided to stop messing around with movies after that whole TSW fiasco and shut down their film subsidiary.

My bad, I realize I wasn't making much sense there.

What I actually meant was their film division—specifically that studio they had over in Hawaii. Unlike the old SquareSoft days, that branch is definitely been shuttered.

....
Yeah, FF:TSW failed for quite a few reasons, and one major issue was how much Western influence seeped into the actual philosophy of the movie, turning it into this sterile, New Age rambling (you know, all that Mother Earth nonsense 🤮 ).
Another huge reason for the downfall falls squarely on the shoulders of the Square folks: their insistence on realistic animation back in the pre-Gollum era. 👎 Just take a look at the first question in this link.

Richard Hernandez13 said:Sorry about that, I guess I wasn't making much sense earlier.

I was actually thinking about their film division—you know, that studio they have out in Hawaii. Unlike what SquareSoft used to be like, it's... Absolutely. Closed.

Yeah, honestly... they shut that down... and frankly, it was probably for the best. 👎

Richard Hernandez13 said:Another massive reason why the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the folks at Square Enix: they were obsessed with pushing realistic animation way too early, back in that pre-Gollum era. 👎 Take a look at the first question in there. I don't see a link here. Could you drop it?.

Ugh, whatever... I need to go read this article first, then I'll get back to you guys. 😁

Man, I finally managed to carve out some actual time for myself today, after spending way too much time just being lazy. 😁I guess I should probably weigh in and give this thread a response that’s actually worth reading.

Richard Hernandez13 thinks FF:TSW failed for a bunch of different reasons, but one major issue was how much Western influence messed with the actual philosophy of the film. It ended up being turned into this sterile, New Age nonsense—you know, all that Mother Earth and similar garbage.

You see these kinds of themes all the time in Japanese RPGs; honestly, you can't go two games without running into the same old tropes. It’s always some variation of "Gaia" or the "Spirit of Earth," or whatever else they decide to call it this time. I only mention it because this movie—and even TSW—is tied back to one of those specific games. But in my opinion, those concepts are never actually the most important part of the story. They really just exist to create some kind of symbiosis with the other elements the player encounters throughout the game.

Look, we’re talking about a film here, and that’s exactly where everything falls apart. You have a game that offers maybe 70 hours of deep, immersive storytelling, but then you try to cram all of that into a two-hour movie? It's a massive hurdle, and honestly, I guess Americans just don't seem to know how to pull that off. Not to mention, there's a fundamental difference in how you experience interaction in a video game versus watching a movie. They aren't even the same medium.

So, what's the actual point here? It’s definitely not about Gaia, or Mother Earth—call it whatever you want—but it's exactly what you pointed out. Americans always seem to meddle in things they don't even understand, and even when they think they do, they have no idea how to actually express it properly.

It seems like Americans have this obsession with everything being black and white, which is especially obvious when you watch their animated films. God forbid an animated movie tries to tackle more than one theme or offer a few different layers of meaning. They really did that by meddling with TSW—they basically stripped the entire film down to a single, shallow concept. I guess that might have been fine if the movie wasn't titled Final Fantasy, but since it is, we have a problem. Anyone who has played even just one of these games knows there should be so much more substance here than just this empty, mindless chatter.

Let me get back to the main point here for a second. Honestly, I’m really hoping AC doesn't end up being a total disaster like TSW was, though if I'm being real, I have my doubts. Even though both are Square Enix productions, at least this time we don't have any Americans meddling in the process.

Look, like I’ve said before, there's a massive difference here. Unlike TSW, AC actually has a huge, established backstory to lean on—and honestly, it’s a damn good story. That makes this a total win-win situation. If it doesn't somehow manage to top FF VII, people will just shrug and say, "Oh well, I guess expecting that was a bit unrealistic anyway." But if it does surpass it? Even better. On the flip side, TSW was always going to be a coin toss: either a massive hit or a complete disaster. It ended up being the latter, but I still respect it because it definitely left its mark on the industry.

Richard Hernandez13> Another major reason this falls on Square Enix's shoulders: they were obsessed with pushing for realistic animation way before the whole Gollum era even started.

Yeah, interesting article. It brings to mind those studies by Professor Moriya. I went through it a bit, but honestly, I can't really say whether a totally humanoid robot would actually fascinate me or just gross me out. I guess it’s hard to decide since I've never even seen one in person. 😁...so, honestly? Who the hell knows. *shrugs*

So, according to this article—and I’m quoting here:

I mean, I guess it’s entirely possible that the reason people totally rejected the "Final Fantasy" movie—you know, the one that tried way too hard to use CGI to make "real" characters—is simply because it fell straight into the Uncanny Valley.

I really want to dwell on that word “possible” for a second... honestly, I have no clue where they even got that idea from. Especially since a few years later, Square Enix produced engine "Final Flight of the Osiris" using that exact same tech, but with even better and more realistic animation—and the reception was actually pretty great.

I totally get why that style of animation might be off-putting to some people, but if you ask me, the real reasons TSW failed lie in the story being way too rushed, characters that feel completely hollow, and the fact that we’re barely getting to know them just as the movie is wrapping up. Plus, there were plenty of other production and directing blunders.

Regarding your comment about the era before Gollum, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Are you saying the animation wasn't good enough to look realistic, that the audience just wasn't ready for it, or maybe that they should have pushed for "realistic" animation through a different approach?

I guess I was being a bit unrealistic by pushing for hyper-realistic animation back when the technology just wasn't quite there yet. We really have to remember that the true soul of Gollum was actually Andy Serkis, since the fans were essentially just using him for motion capture anyway -> so, that whole uncanny valley vibe actually made perfect sense to me, especially since I felt it personally while watching the movie. 😉

Back then, a buddy of mine was glued to his computer playing FFVIII (or maybe it was number 😁, I can't quite recall) - the cutscenes in that game were done in a sort of classic anime style and they were honestly phenomenal -> to my mind, that was a much better way to handle an animated feature.

Adam Wright56 said:You know, you see these kinds of themes popping up all the time in Japanese RPGs because it feels like every third game uses the exact same tropes. It doesn't matter what you're playing, you're almost guaranteed to run into something like "Earth" or some variation of "Mother Nature" thrown into the plot.

I know, I know...

It’s that classic Japanese way of thinking, really, because what they're actually tapping into is their own indigenous faith—Shintoism, which is basically just pure, unfiltered animism. It honestly works so beautifully when you look at how it plays out in things like... Princess Mononoke.

But honestly, when you look at the Spirits Within film, everything just feels so washed out and hollowed out, like it’s been reduced to nothing more than some vague, New Agey spiritual babble—or, if I were trying to sound like a much smarter philosopher than I actually am, I’d put it this way: Honestly, I just can't stand all that tree-hugging hippie nonsense.That's just so typical of someone from a small Midwestern town.

Richard Hernandez13: I guess it was kind of pointless of me to push for hyper-realistic animation when the technology just wasn't there yet.

That’s exactly what I figured.

Yeah, I guess I agree with you on that much. But the thing is, you have to admit they were actually the first ones to pull something like that off—and honestly, they did it pretty damn well considering when it happened. You've gotta give them credit for that.

"Could they have done better?" It’s a question I find myself asking all the time. I mean, let's be real—there is always room for improvement, no matter how much polish you throw at a project. But honestly? Given the circumstances they were working under, I don't think they actually had the capacity to pull off anything superior. Maybe if they had just dedicated an extra year strictly to the animation, things would have looked different, but then again, someone else probably would have beaten them to the punch by then... *shrugs*

Richard Hernandez13> Let’s not forget that at the end of the day, the heart of Gollum was still just Andy Serkis. I guess some Gamers act like the tech does all the heavy lifting, but they were really just using him as a tool for motion capture.

This is a total no-brainer. There’s really no comparison here... I guess all that effort they put into The Walt Disney Company probably doesn't even come close to what they pulled off with Gollum.

I mean, personally, I still think those are peaches and nectarines... because Gollum was created much later on, and the tech was just way more advanced back then. The computers were significantly more powerful, and honestly, the role itself was fundamentally different from what the characters at The Walt Disney Company were doing. Besides, they had to actually integrate Gollum into a live-action feature film, whereas for the Disney characters, it was enough to just give them a decent amount of human-like movement within an animated movie.

Richard Hernandez13> I guess that whole uncanny valley effect made sense to me, since I actually felt it myself while watching the movie.

I guess I'm still not sure if you're talking about The Walt Disney Company or Gollum...😁I guess you're talking about The Walt Disney Company. 😉

Like I said before, I don't really know... personally, I've never actually experienced that effect. If anything, I feel the exact opposite of what people claim. To me, a character actually looks better when the animation feels more grounded and realistic—assuming, of course, that a realistic style is even their goal. At the end of the day, I guess I just prefer seeing a character that clearly looks "animated." 😉.

I mean, honestly, I guess if someone would just put an actual robot right in front of me and let me see how people react, then maybe I could give a more precise answer.

Unless, of course, that robot actually ends up looking like a perfect, hyper-realistic replica of the woman who basically lent her body to play Aki in that The Walt Disney Company production. 😍 🙂 I guess this would pretty much bury Professor Moria's theories once and for all.

Richard Hernandez13> Around that time, a buddy of mine was playing Final Fantasy VIII on his PC—or maybe it was a different one, I can't quite remember the exact number—but the animated cutscenes were done in that classic anime style and they were just phenomenal. Honestly, I think those would have been a much better way to handle an entire feature-length animated movie.

Look, Richard Hernandez13... finding out about the warm water, what can I even say? *shrugs* I guess I’d be a lot happier, just like most other fans, if they had stuck to "classic" animation but actually put more effort into the actual story, but hey... you can't have your cake and eat it too.

And honestly, that’s what I actually like about the new Star Wars film... they’ve given up on that hyper-"realistic" animation style, at least to the extent they were aiming for with The Walt Disney Company, and they're focusing on the narrative instead. The animation will still be good enough to be "breathtaking," and thank God, the movie will surely have more action and cool characters. I noticed a few "realistic" scenes in the trailer anyway... so we can pretty much expect anything.

Richard Hernandez13> that's typical Japanese rhetoric, because it's actually based on their indigenous religion—Shintoism, which is basically primitive animism. It works incredibly well, for example, in Princess Mononoke.

Yeah, something like that.

I think that’s exactly what makes The Empire Strikes Back good... there isn't going to be any heavy philosophy. Final Fantasy VII is a great sci-fi action flick, so it's reasonable to expect the sequel in film form won't stray from that genre either.

FINAL FANTASY VII IS THE GREATEST GAME EVER MADE!!!
I don't care if we're seeing modern titles come out with graphics three times better than what we had back then—none of them have an ounce of soul compared to Final Fantasy VII.

wanderingcrane51 said:FINAL FANTASY VII IS THE GREATEST GAME EVER MADE!!!
even if we have games coming out now with graphics that are like three times better, nothing has that soul that FF7 just had.

totally agree, man. big facts. 😁 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍

wanderingcrane51 said:None of them have a soul quite like Star Wars VII.

Look, there's Final Fantasy VI, sure, but this isn't a thread about video games—we're talking about the movie.

wanderingcrane51 said:Final Fantasy VII is hands down the greatest game ever made!!!
even though we're seeing games come out now with graphics that are three times better, none of them actually have the soul that Final Fantasy VII had.

Anyway, let's talk Fallout (sorry for going totally off-topic here).
I don't know what it is with people, but when I actually sit down and think about it,
Spirits Within wasn't even that bad. (it wasn't exactly a masterpiece either, but it was alright)

Just finished watching the movie, and man, it was incredible. Visually, it’s absolutely stunning—it delivered everything I was hoping for and then some 😁
The Fight scenes are insane, just totally INSANE!!!

OMG, the new sequel just hit the video stores!!!!!!
and of course, it’s already out, damn.

That’s actually on the lineup for Coachella this Saturday night.

So, I finally caught that movie a few months back. It wasn’t half bad... definitely more visual flair than the last one, and the graphics felt like a step up—even though I was watching a pretty low-quality rip.